Thousands Of Thai Protesters Defy Deadline To Leave

[Thai at Heart]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

Why did Chavalit suddenly have an urgent desire to travel Kumming in China....anybody know...factual...not conjecture

Sondhi used to have a hotel up there, other than that, can't hazard a really educated guess.

Picking up a suitcase with 1.4bn USD inside?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[truethailand]

To a previous poster

The elite control the army and the judiciary. We cant lose , we have all the cards..game over, tilt

[dobadoy]

Incidentally, has anyone heard or seen from Veera?

He seems to have been completely 'disapperared' - well over a week now.

Hiding in 11th Army regiment with Abhisit, or rotting under the Red Stage with a hole in his head?

[lilkitty]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

Interesting fact. Can you name the company? I was under the impression his father was a medical doctor (his mother, too).

Charoen Pokphand Foods, part of Charoen Pokphand Group. Does "CP" or "CP Group" ring a bell? It must ring a bell to anyone that lives in Thailand. Interestingly, a meeting with CP Group was one of the first things Abhisit did after becoming Prime Minister.

[A_Traveller]

^ As a director. hardly unusual, one finds that many companies here [and elsewhere] have non executive director positions filled by those from outside the industry, academia etc..

I'm not 100% sure but I believe he stood down from the position shortly after his son was elected PM.

Regards

Edited May 17, 2010 by A_Traveller

[lilkitty]

Here is another interesting article:

Abhisit's dad spends B300,000 a month on security for his son

* Published: 3/02/2010 at 12:00 AM

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's father is spending about 300,000 baht a month from his own pocket to protect his son and his family from attack.

The government provides funds for the protection of the government leader, but Mr Abhisit's father Atthasit, a former Mahidol University dean, has spent his own money on security, a source close to the prime minister said yesterday.

Dr Atthasit has spent about 300,000 baht on security protection for his son every month since the prime minister became the subject of a string of threats, including Monday's incident in which excrement was thrown into his house compound.

How does a simple medical doctor he claims to be have the money to spend 300,000 Baht per month only on security? Surely his retirement funds must soon be completely gone. That's 3.6 million Baht (over $100,000+) spent on security per year.

[englishoak]

I shall wear it with pride. I like this game. Further hint. Why does Thailand have such a small selection of foreign beers. Who would have the clout to pass laws like that, to restrict foreign alcohol imports. Who would have most to loose

One more... Why are car imports so heavily and unrealistically taxed...to protect local jobs...naaaa. You import too many Toyotas and we dont need the factory here...it can go to Vietnam or Cambodia. I wonder who rents all the land to the foreign companies...ummmm. Why dont they build factories in depressed areas, like Isaan instead of making the Isaan people go to Rayong. Lot cheaper and the East West Economic Trade cooridor runs thru Isaan. Can have vehicles in Da Naang (port) in 9 hours. They drive Toyotas now, in large trailer loads, into Laos and China from Rayong.. I hope this is helping to unravel what the poor have known for decades

I like this game too

Siam Cement (the largest Thai industrial and petrochemical conglomerates),

Christiani & Nielsen (one of the largest construction firms),

Deves Insurance (one of the largest insurers),

Siam Commercial Bank (one of the largest banks),

Honda Cars (Thailand),

Y.K.K. Zipper (Thailand),

Nanthawan (Obayashi),

Thai Bridgestone,

Minebea Electronics (Thailand),

Bangkok Aviation Fuel Service,

the Dusit Thani Hotel.

and Shin Corporation (a major telecommunications firm, through holdings in Siam Commercial Bank).

All the above are 100% connected, are we getting curious yet ?

[hammered]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

Interesting fact. Can you name the company? I was under the impression his father was a medical doctor (his mother, too).

Charoen Pokphand Foods, part of Charoen Pokphand Group. Does "CP" or "CP Group" ring a bell? It must ring a bell to anyone that lives in Thailand. Interestingly, a meeting with CP Group was one of the first things Abhisit did after becoming Prime Minister.

CP were also the biggest corporate backer of TRT and Thaksin. Companies support whoever is in power. Not only in Thailand too

Have to mention this in the name of fairness.

[rogerdee123]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

Why did Chavalit suddenly have an urgent desire to travel Kumming in China....anybody know...factual...not conjecture

Sondhi used to have a hotel up there, other than that, can't hazard a really educated guess.

Picking up a suitcase with 1.4bn USD inside?

Big Jiew has had lots of timber deals in Burma/Myanmar ... maybe he's selling Burmese teak to the Chinese.

One of the other red personalities was also mentioned as having left the country and in Kumming ... can't remember his name now .... must be something going on up there .. or maybe it's just the slot machines.

[Thai at Heart]

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Absolute rubbish. Thaksin never threatened nor ever suggested changing foreign ownership rules, it benefits him as much as every other rich billionnaire. The only thing he was intersted in was selling his company to foreigners after manipulating the markets and laws to give in unfair advantage and ii. cheat the country out of the tax by doing it through off-shore asset holdings companies.

A lot of people seem to forget how outraged the Thai public were when Thaksin sold AIS and dodged paying the tax to the country - a fact his once-best buddy and now arch-rival and also billionaire Sonthi Lim was never shy of pointing out. So weird he's gone so quiet in all of this - fear for his life? Or is there a twist at the end of this horrible tale yet to come?

No it didn't benefit him at all. He couldn't get paid. What is the point in having the largest mobile phone company in Thailand if you can't sell it someone, and you are about to have to shell out a ton of money for a 3g network. The other big family that wanted a mobile company had one. Did Singha want one? hel_l no. Red Bull Man? No way. 2bn is in the end of the day a lot of money.

In his business the foreign ownership rules were a pain in the ass, because he could never realise a cash profit and he was going to get squished if he didn't partner up with someone. He is not some family dynasty of mobile phone operators unlike many of the other large families.

Now as for industries that were being slated to be removed from protection. Take your pic. There was a certain bunch of families who apparently he wasn't too keen on since they didn't really back him in his set up of AIS. They didn't like him either because he survived 97 quite well, whilst they and several of their close associates got toasted well and truly.

Add in the fact that he arranged the issuance of the first new license in that industry for decades and you could see that possibly this got the attention of quite a few very powerful people in Bangkok. Some of whom had close family members in the Democrat party and also rather stupidly marched up with Sondhi and his mates the very first time they went into Government house and beat a hasty retreat when they realised that the time wasn't right.

Now this is all simply joining the dots to provide a financial reason why certain people might have wanted Thaksin out. It is all out there in various books and publications. Fortunately I travel a lot, so make a point of picking up books at the airport and have time to try to work out why this is happening to Thailand. Now do we really believe that the real reason for all of this fighting, a coup, legal issues, smashing an admittedly corrupt politicians wealth is all to do with bringing Thailand kicking and screaming into some dawn of clean politics? Clean politics in Thailand? Come on.

Or is it all just about money? I have a policy, that when all confuses me in Thailand, the logical answer is that someone is getting paid. As a policy it is cynical, but it has never failed.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[NCFC]

To a previous poster

The elite control the army and the judiciary. We cant lose , we have all the cards..game over, tilt

What this country needs is some really strong leaders like Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos. Now they knew how to run a country and held no truck with trouble makers. Certainly cracked a few peasant heads in their time. And the Philipinnes was doing really well until that Aquino guy turned up at the airport one day. Just like the man from Dubai, should've know where he wasn't welcome.

Philipinnes gone backwards economically ever since the Marcos's left.

Let's get a strong woman like Imelda to run the show.

[crocken]

i went into the red shirt camp at 5 pm monday 17th.every one seemed relaxed and many people sleeping.there are many children and old people in there,they are happy to see farangs come to visit.

a very interesting wall they have built from bamboo and tyres.they are very brave people.

[truethailand]

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Absolute rubbish. Thaksin never threatened nor ever suggested changing foreign ownership rules, it benefits him as much as every other rich billionnaire. The only thing he was intersted in was selling his company to foreigners after manipulating the markets and laws to give in unfair advantage and ii. cheat the country out of the tax by doing it through off-shore asset holdings companies.

A lot of people seem to forget how outraged the Thai public were when Thaksin sold AIS and dodged paying the tax to the country - a fact his once-best buddy and now arch-rival and also billionaire Sonthi Lim was never shy of pointing out. So weird he's gone so quiet in all of this - fear for his life? Or is there a twist at the end of this horrible tale yet to come?

Of course they all get rich from current legislation but tacky cannot allow these players to be in the game anymore.. So he needs to break up their monopoly, award fat Government contracts to outsiders(allowing for his envelope) Changing laws is one way to do it.

Tacky was nibbling away at the current elite incumbents when they order the coup on him. These elite have created a huge buffer between themselves and the poor. Privatising EGAT was on the cards. The Egat workers were seen cutting power at a police station during the yellow shirt sit in. Control the power control the country. Egat as always been under elite control. He was giving soft loans to Government workers and talking about individually assessing teacher performance(to break up their unity..ever man for himself). All these acts by Tackky where designed to remove this buffer between rich and poor. The poor never question teachers and government workers. Ever ask why some wear army like uniforms and some wear different colours everyday. If you know what i am saying you will know why the poor will not question them. Takky love him or hate him is very shrewd and was becoming a serious threat to the staus quo... get the army out he has gone to far this time

Edited May 17, 2010 by truethailand

[lilkitty]

I like this game too

Siam Cement (the largest Thai industrial and petrochemical conglomerates),

Christiani & Nielsen (one of the largest construction firms),

Deves Insurance (one of the largest insurers),

Siam Commercial Bank (one of the largest banks),

Honda Cars (Thailand),

Y.K.K. Zipper (Thailand),

Nanthawan (Obayashi),

Thai Bridgestone,

Minebea Electronics (Thailand),

Bangkok Aviation Fuel Service,

the Dusit Thani Hotel.

and Shin Corporation (a major telecommunications firm, through holdings in Siam Commercial Bank).

All the above are 100% connected, are we getting curious yet ?

You're playing a dangerous game.

[earthpig]

i went into the red shirt camp at 5 pm monday 17th.every one seemed relaxed and many people sleeping.there are many children and old people in there,they are happy to see farangs come to visit.

a very interesting wall they have built from bamboo and tyres.they are very brave people.

thank you for the first hand account.

these are extremely important as now when media is biased and or muzzled, and when the stakes involved in knowing the truth are high.

[rogerdee123]

ok a few pointers but no names.

1. why thai people dont know their recent history.... Their history is littered with unsavoury events. They dont like anybody asking questions so they dont teach thai history at school

2. Who are the paymasters...look at any society and there are basic things we all need. Food, infrastructure,transport, yes even beer and many others.. do your own googling (hint look at Forbes you may find some answers there)

The question you should ask is who as most to loose in this if thaksin comes back and opens up the country to international businesses without current draconian rules (51% 49%)

Absolute rubbish. Thaksin never threatened nor ever suggested changing foreign ownership rules, it benefits him as much as every other rich billionnaire. The only thing he was intersted in was selling his company to foreigners after manipulating the markets and laws to give in unfair advantage and ii. cheat the country out of the tax by doing it through off-shore asset holdings companies.

A lot of people seem to forget how outraged the Thai public were when Thaksin sold AIS and dodged paying the tax to the country - a fact his once-best buddy and now arch-rival and also billionaire Sonthi Lim was never shy of pointing out. So weird he's gone so quiet in all of this - fear for his life? Or is there a twist at the end of this horrible tale yet to come?

No it didn't benefit him at all. He couldn't get paid. What is the point in having the largest mobile phone company in Thailand if you can't sell it someone, and you are about to have to shell out a ton of money for a 3g network. The other big family that wanted a mobile company had one. Did Singha want one? hel_l no. Red Bull Man? No way. 2bn is in the end of the day a lot of money.

In his business the foreign ownership rules were a pain in the ass, because he could never realise a cash profit and he was going to get squished if he didn't partner up with someone. He is not some family dynasty of mobile phone operators unlike many of the other large families.

Now as for industries that were being slated to be removed from protection. Take your pic. There was a certain bunch of families who apparently he wasn't too keen on since they didn't really back him in his set up of AIS. They didn't like him either because he survived 97 quite well, whilst they and several of their close associates got toasted well and truly.

Add in the fact that he arranged the issuance of the first new license in that industry for decades and you could see that possibly this got the attention of quite a few very powerful people in Bangkok. Some of whom had close family members in the Democrat party and also rather stupidly marched up with Sondhi and his mates the very first time they went into Government house and beat a hasty retreat when they realised that the time wasn't right.

Now this is all simply joining the dots to provide a financial reason why certain people might have wanted Thaksin out. It is all out there in various books and publications. Fortunately I travel a lot, so make a point of picking up books at the airport and have time to try to work out why this is happening to Thailand. Now do we really believe that the real reason for all of this fighting, a coup, legal issues, smashing an admittedly corrupt politicians wealth is all to do with bringing Thailand kicking and screaming into some dawn of clean politics? Clean politics in Thailand? Come on.

Or is it all just about money? I have a policy, that when all confuses me in Thailand, the logical answer is that someone is getting paid. As a policy it is cynical, but it has never failed.

Thanks Thai At Heart ... very informative post.

[truethailand]

I like this game too

Siam Cement (the largest Thai industrial and petrochemical conglomerates),

Christiani & Nielsen (one of the largest construction firms),

Deves Insurance (one of the largest insurers),

Siam Commercial Bank (one of the largest banks),

Honda Cars (Thailand),

Y.K.K. Zipper (Thailand),

Nanthawan (Obayashi),

Thai Bridgestone,

Minebea Electronics (Thailand),

Bangkok Aviation Fuel Service,

the Dusit Thani Hotel.

and Shin Corporation (a major telecommunications firm, through holdings in Siam Commercial Bank).

All the above are 100% connected, are we getting curious yet ?

You're playing a dangerous game.

I know I know I know let me answer please... dont want jocking off this forum. Best I keep stum

[surangw]

outrageous!

The kid probably just got off from working all night selling flowers down at Nana. My point is I have long been disgusted by child human standards in Thailand.

even the "hi so" thais don't have a clue when it comes to small kids, ever see little ones milling about in the bemers and benzes, no child seats, or even seat belts?

[hammered]

Big Jiew has had lots of timber deals in Burma/Myanmar ... maybe he's selling Burmese teak to the Chinese.

One of the other red personalities was also mentioned as having left the country and in Kumming ... can't remember his name now .... must be something going on up there .. or maybe it's just the slot machines.

Guess it is better business than selling thai artillery shells to the khmer rouge and then finding you have no ammo left for the artillery when a lttle altercation with laos occurs

[A_Traveller]

...

How does a simple medical doctor he claims to be have the money to spend 300,000 Baht per month only on security? Surely his retirement funds must soon be completely gone. That's 3.6 million Baht (over $100,000+) spent on security per year.

Nice try, but as is your style a tricky swerve you couldn't pull off. As a former President of Mahidol University, former deputy health minister, Athasit is not quite a 'simple doctor'. Now his father was also Public health Minister, so one might reasonably assume that the family is in a position to ensure security whilst hoping that the authorities get their act together.

Regards

[lilkitty]

[Anyse]

If we decide to appease the international standard, talk will resume. But given the way that the UDD are behaving, should talk resume and only to be broken down by unbelievable demands again? The funny thing is how the international press (CNN and BBC) are portraying Thaksin as 'only' living abroad and not as a fugitive, what gives, are there too many definition of fugitive? It's these kind of press misinformation that gives Thaksin legitimacy to his claim of innocence.

Now that it's off my chest. Let's get back on topic.

since the govenrment gave the UDD a clear deadline to vacate the premises, then I believe that they are disobeying the law. There should be some punishment for that. The demand by UDD to withdraw the troop is totally outrageous, that would tantamount to 'red' victory. If only the leaders would take off their blindfold (or off any medications) then maybe they'll give realistic demands. But that's too late now. They have now given the gov't every right to use force to disperse the crowd, though I wish that they'll use 'less than lethal' force to do it.

I dare say, I have read plenty of the press here in the US as well as have watched on the BBC (on the internet) as well as many other sources (including the NY Times) and your analysis of Western news standards in reports on Thailand are simply not true! They do talk about Thaksin being charged with corruption as well as living in exile. They also reported his less than humane comments that were even racist that made me rather ill. However Abhisit is not really a great negotiator, even in the beginning and, politically, his legacy should be clearly removed as well as not being allowed to run for re-election. There are many errors on both sides of this complex problem. How many of you have read the overall analysis of the socio-political problems Thailand now faces? This problem is at the root of Thai society, a society that is changing dramatically and for which the political and social structure is certainly not prepared at this time. Maybe the Red Shirts are historically premature or the government is simply not progressive enough (trying to maintain the status quo). Or, it could be a combination of the two. This is an ugly situation that could have had a much better outcome if dealt with more sympathetically and humanely at the outset. However, the government miscalculated the strength(s) of the Red Shirts and this may well be it overall undoing. Ho Chi Minh said that "if you have a man, woman or child who will fight for their own land (applies to social, political and economic freedom as well) you've got the strength of 10." Well, if there were 5,000 there, they have the strength of 50,000. There were more earlier and, of course, this number would be much highter. I hope that there is a peaceful resolution above all things; however, I cannot be sure of that anymore. I hope for the very best outcome for Thailand, a land that I truly love in my heart of hearts.

[Thai at Heart]

A truly great advert.

It must have cost a bunch to get Adam Sandler to do it.

[NCFC]

...

How does a simple medical doctor he claims to be have the money to spend 300,000 Baht per month only on security? Surely his retirement funds must soon be completely gone. That's 3.6 million Baht (over $100,000+) spent on security per year.

Nice try, but as is your style a tricky swerve you couldn't pull off. As a former President of Mahidol University, former deputy health minister, Athasit is not quite a 'simple doctor'. Now his father was also Public health Minister, so one might reasonably assume that the family is in a position to ensure security whilst hoping that the authorities get their act together.

Regards

So how does a former academic and a former public servant get so wealthy. I would have imagined his salary would have been quite low.

[truethailand]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

How about including in the list that Abhisit's father served on the board of directors of one of the heaviest PAD-financing companies? By supporting the PAD with money for their demonstrations, he eventually paved the way for his son to become Prime Minister.

Interesting fact. Can you name the company? I was under the impression his father was a medical doctor (his mother, too).

Charoen Pokphand Foods, part of Charoen Pokphand Group. Does "CP" or "CP Group" ring a bell? It must ring a bell to anyone that lives in Thailand. Interestingly, a meeting with CP Group was one of the first things Abhisit did after becoming Prime Minister.

Remember Takkys mob saying they will fine shops 200,000 baht for displaying cigs. Cp has 5000+ 7 elevens lots of 0s that. I could never understand a Takky thing about closing supermarkets early to save fuel...maybe CP has a few supermarkets..Lotus Tesco . This guys definately sitting at the top table

Edited May 17, 2010 by truethailand

[Anyse]

There is nothing else the government can do at this time. The reds have painted the government into a corner.

Look at the last 4 days. The government moves to contain the Rachprasong rally. Contain ---- not crackdown! The troops move in to the areas around the reds and the reds attack. They continue to come OUT of Rachprasong and attack. The troops have not moved into the rachprasong area. The troops are working on containing them and that is all.

Personally, I assume that the government thought that this would happen. The roudier, violent, and less well trained reds are coming out and attacking and this so far has kept the 'relatively' innocent grannies, women, and totally innocent children safer inside the main rally encampment while the troops deal with the more violent reds.

I am stymied at how they plan to really proceed though. I don't see how they can move in from here. I also think that Sae Daeng's ronin will open fire on the hostages inside the red compound if the government moves in, in a bid to discredit the government.

I hope they have a plan that can give some safety to the grannies and children.

Has it occured to anyone in TV that the good General Seh Dang has trained well, the RD leaders, who have spread the training down the ranks. Look at the big picture people. They seem insane to us on the internet, but they have been very organized, very tactical, very self controlled, and the women, elderly, children have been kept in the center, or close to pathways to get to center of the compound when needed. Very strategic on their part, and very systematic in their activity day by day. Its the govt and military that are fully aware that the Reds have been trained by the best, and its the govt and military that acts more like the amateurs. Thats why he was taken out of the equation by a sniper. The probable thought being, if the general is dead, panic will sweep thru the RD camp and they will either scatter, or be confused and easily swayed or conquered. It appears that the general has instilled not only tactical training, but also fed their intestinal fortitude as well. Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it, and when it comes to learning what all is involved with Democracy, the Reds and students are learning at an exponential rate. For you average iq and education farang, that means Thai are like dry squeezed sponges released in water. They are absorbing their fill, and Thailand will never be the same after this is finally settled.

What a fascinating post. Is it really about liberty, justice, equality, all in the political, social and economic spheres. Maybe he's right! Who knows. Do people want this kind of change in a quaint country like Thailand, not if they are the elite! Wax on philosopically and with language that only those who speak of lofty ideals use. Maybe this needs to be heard a lot more.

[landofthefree]

baby in a warzone is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!! what's up with you red murder!!!!!!

No a baby in a war zone is fine if you are amart (the elite royalist people) because he is only isaan so he is not woth worrying about face up to it that is how the yellows think and dont worry they will be got rid of by the Thai population sooner rather than later.

Edited May 17, 2010 by landofthefree

[jcbangkok]

Seat on Human Rights Council a saving grace for Thailand

By Kavi Chongkittavorn

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's election to the UN Human Rights Council last week saved the country from sinking deeper into the abyss. The hard-won seat, which came at the height of street tensions and battles, showed that the country still enjoyed a good reservoir of support among the international community. Scoring the second highest votes of 182 after Maldives at 185, they did better than the other 12 countries, including Spain, Switzerland and Poland

[landofthefree]

baby in a warzone is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!! what's up with you red murder!!!!!!

No a baby in a war zone is fine if you are amart (the elite royalist people) because he is only isaan so he is not woth worrying about face up to it that is how the yellows think and dont worry they will be got rid of by the Thai population sooner rather than later.

[truethailand]

There is nothing else the government can do at this time. The reds have painted the government into a corner.

Look at the last 4 days. The government moves to contain the Rachprasong rally. Contain ---- not crackdown! The troops move in to the areas around the reds and the reds attack. They continue to come OUT of Rachprasong and attack. The troops have not moved into the rachprasong area. The troops are working on containing them and that is all.

Personally, I assume that the government thought that this would happen. The roudier, violent, and less well trained reds are coming out and attacking and this so far has kept the 'relatively' innocent grannies, women, and totally innocent children safer inside the main rally encampment while the troops deal with the more violent reds.

I am stymied at how they plan to really proceed though. I don't see how they can move in from here. I also think that Sae Daeng's ronin will open fire on the hostages inside the red compound if the government moves in, in a bid to discredit the government.

I hope they have a plan that can give some safety to the grannies and children.

Has it occured to anyone in TV that the good General Seh Dang has trained well, the RD leaders, who have spread the training down the ranks. Look at the big picture people. They seem insane to us on the internet, but they have been very organized, very tactical, very self controlled, and the women, elderly, children have been kept in the center, or close to pathways to get to center of the compound when needed. Very strategic on their part, and very systematic in their activity day by day. Its the govt and military that are fully aware that the Reds have been trained by the best, and its the govt and military that acts more like the amateurs. Thats why he was taken out of the equation by a sniper. The probable thought being, if the general is dead, panic will sweep thru the RD camp and they will either scatter, or be confused and easily swayed or conquered. It appears that the general has instilled not only tactical training, but also fed their intestinal fortitude as well. Oh, and for the love of God, drop the infamy building of Tacksin. This grew far beyond one man oh so long ago. Live or dead, Tacksin is not the center of the Red universe. Democracy is. Some of you are right, Thai don't know what Democracy really is, but they have learned enough from the outside to know they want it, and when it comes to learning what all is involved with Democracy, the Reds and students are learning at an exponential rate. For you average iq and education farang, that means Thai are like dry squeezed sponges released in water. They are absorbing their fill, and Thailand will never be the same after this is finally settled.

What a fascinating post. Is it really about liberty, justice, equality, all in the political, social and economic spheres. Maybe he's right! Who knows. Do people want this kind of change in a quaint country like Thailand, not if they are the elite! Wax on philosopically and with language that only those who speak of lofty ideals use. Maybe this needs to be heard a lot more.

I am glad this thread is now discussing the real issue... No more talk of M16 and M79 please you are just muddying the waters