Gas Vs Petrol

[monty]

And some more observations not touched upon in this thread.

IGNITION

Your spark plug requires a higher voltage to create a proper hot spark when in an LPG/air mixture compared to when in a petrol./air mixture!

Normal ignition systems ARE sufficient, but they do need to be in tip-top shape. Worn ignition cables, worn spark plugs, and you'll end up with an engine running perfectly on petrol, but will be a disaster on LPG. Back firing, rough running etc...

IGNITION 2

LPG has a very high octane number. Which means you can advance the timing a fair bit. Which means more power. Up to the point where power-loss compared to petrol is almost nothing. And consequently consumption goes down.

BUT run your engine with those ignition settings on petrol, and you'll blow it to smithereens in no time! With the very advanced timing and the lower octane of petrol, your engine will ping like crazy, and this is s sure fire way of wrecking it.

And I have seen LPG installers do this, probably as a way of making the customer happy with power and economy on LPG.

[BSJ]

Lubing the valves in an LPG engine isn't a problem. Siam Engineering Spare Parts Co Ltd in Bangkok keep Flashlube kits in stock. Flashlube kits are upper cylinder lubricators.

They have a web site. http://www.flashlube.com/valvesaverkit/index.html

[WarpSpeed]

Funny you answered again as the more I thought about it the more I realized that the burned valves you speak of in a dual-fuel system have virtually nothing to do with the LP temps generated but rather the leaned out fuel mixture when in regular fuel mode due to the air flow restriction of the LP injector

Other way around! You reduce the air intake, then you increase mixture (if you inject the same amount of petrol). Which is the opposite of running lean. And most fuel injected engines have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust, so whatever you do on the inlet side, the proper amount of petrol will always be injected for a proper mixture...

You were doing well until you got here.. Most installers disconnect the O2 sensor here just as they did on mine and further more, as I stated before, the ECU does not have the range to swing from the extremes of LP to the extremes of fuel so that definitely does lean out the mixture fuel wise as it over compensates for the lack of air and I think you'll see if you read back that I also mentioned more then once that was mostly in regards to high RPM's driving such as highway which is also when you generate the most heat with the least amount of time to dissipate it... The fact that my temp goes up dramatically, noticeably and immediately once I leave a highway is testament to these facts as that NEVER occurs with just fuel.. I also have a larger radiator then stock, mine is a diesel radiator which is what anyone who installs one of these systems should consider installing..

It can not be overlooked that higher temps from LP also cook your catalytic converter in short order just like it would if your fuel system was running too rich making it useless so the entire fuel system pollution control is more or less incapacitated but so what? IMO using it so little comparatively speaking..

Edited May 21, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

most LPG engines run very rich LPG mix as a vacuum system adding LPG in engines airintake. thus the decreased milage running LPG. most Dual fuel run less than 1% on petrol, and airflow is not restricted with a good designed aluminum LPG distributor/LPG feeder

Haven't seen an LPG feeder yet which does not restrict airflow to a certain extent. It's based on the venturi effect, which needs a small funnel like reduction in diameter.

This is actually one of the bigger advantages of the multipoint LPG injection systems, having no effect whatsoever on petrol operation! Yes, this was my point but sadly hardly used in this market to this point..

No mass produced production engines for cars have the injectors upstream of the throttle valves (plural) otherwise they would need four throttle valves , 4 airflow sensors etc. MotoGP bikes do as do F1 but not mass produced road cars. I warrant even your VW only has one throttle body

Huh? All my fuel injected cars have one throttle body and 4 injectors! The injectors sit right in front where the inlet manifold (after splitting 4-ways after the throttle body) is mounted to the engine...The Nissan has 6 injectors! (ha actually 12, 6 petrol, and 6 LPG )

I just wanted a smilie nodding in agreement but this is all I could find..

I have to agree in that LPG or CNG conversions on a car designed for petrol does not work or is cost effective.

The savings one gets at the gas pump isn't worth the cost of engine rebuilds or head work.

Not in my case! In the combined 350,000 km ran on LPG I have saved close to 600,000 Baht on fuel costs, and as of now haven't had one engine needing an overhaul or rebuild. Admittedly 2 out of 3 cars are used commercially and run more km's per year then the average consumer car would do... Even more reason for wear and damage though

Again

[WarpSpeed]

And some more observations not touched upon in this thread.

IGNITION

Your spark plug requires a higher voltage to create a proper hot spark when in an LPG/air mixture compared to when in a petrol./air mixture!

Normal ignition systems ARE sufficient, but they do need to be in tip-top shape. Worn ignition cables, worn spark plugs, and you'll end up with an engine running perfectly on petrol, but will be a disaster on LPG. Back firing, rough running etc...

IGNITION 2

LPG has a very high octane number. Which means you can advance the timing a fair bit. Which means more power. Up to the point where power-loss compared to petrol is almost nothing. And consequently consumption goes down.

BUT run your engine with those ignition settings on petrol, and you'll blow it to smithereens in no time! With the very advanced timing and the lower octane of petrol, your engine will ping like crazy, and this is s sure fire way of wrecking it.

And I have seen LPG installers do this, probably as a way of making the customer happy with power and economy on LPG.

Also Had to retard my timing as well as run the highest octane available in petrol not gasohol to try and find a reasonable middle ground...

Edited May 21, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[monty]

And another plus point of LPG:

Engine lubrication. Engine oil lasts longer running on LPG. Petrol dilutes oil, LPG does not.

Last but not least, it runs cleaner for the environment, although as Warpspeed mentions, it will likely wreck your cat convertor...Then again, people using LPG converted cars run very little on petrol, kind of defeats the purpose:)

Most installers disconnect the O2 sensor here just as they did on mine

Strange, they didn't on mine!

And although I start on petrol so to keep the petrol injection in good shape, I never run actually on petrol. Can't really say the ECU would be overcompensating and leaning out when running on LPG.

[WarpSpeed]

And another plus point of LPG:

Engine lubrication. Engine oil lasts longer running on LPG. Petrol dilutes oil, LPG does not.

Last but not least, it runs cleaner for the environment, although as Warpspeed mentions, it will likely wreck your cat convertor...Then again, people using LPG converted cars run very little on petrol, kind of defeats the purpose:)

Most installers disconnect the O2 sensor here just as they did on mine

Strange, they didn't on mine!

And although I start on petrol so to keep the petrol injection in good shape, I never run actually on petrol. Can't really say the ECU would be overcompensating and leaning out when running on LPG.

Well you also mention having larger engines assuming the Caravan is also larger than 2.0 so not as critical as small bore.

Are your LP injection systems the Prins injector system or something similar it sounds like it? On those systems because of their adjustability and range they are more compatible with the on-board ECU so probably no need to disconnect it (O2 sensor).. But the preponderance of junk, read; low grade LP systems like the one installed in my car I can't see any way the average ECU can make a swing of that extreme..

When I raced VW's for many years and will again here, I had a cockpit manual over-ride which allowed me to manipulate my fuel mixture through the millivolts read out by my ECU with a rheostat and volt meter, this was connected into the O2 sensor connection with the O2 sensor removed, in essence I was a manual O2 sensor with the sweet spot varying between ECU's but generally being in the 420 to 490 range too much either way would send the ECU into default mode and that's millivolts. The atmospheric conditions changed and so could my fuel mixture at my will to provide the best stoichiometric output which was determined by a temp sensor in my #1 cylinder and never to exceed 1520F for any significant length of time as any more was burned valves and seats.. This was a great advantage for VW's especially as they have a tendency to run lean at high RPM's which is why the early GTI's had a fuel richening switch installed on the throttle body to richen the fuel.

This was most especially useful when we were driving slow laps or around the paddock as without it the spark plugs would load up and foul as it ran too rich at low end if it was set right at top end. So on the race start and for the first few laps power was down until the fouling burned off except not with my system, nor my car, and the other VW teams and competitors who counted on that advantage over us couldn't figure out why I killed them on the starts and the first few laps which they never made up..

I'm trying to think if there is someway I can do something similar to my current car but I don't want all of those gauges and meters in my car necessarily.. It's really a shame though that so many here feel insecure and begrudge my worldly experience as they could benefit and really learn something if they could stop feeling threatened..

[WarpSpeed]

Still waiting for something of value from you T/A, I guess that's too much to ask??

Ask me a question in 'MY' field. I am not like you an EXPERT in every bodies field, eh.

Though, if you want your mower blades sharpened, l do a good deal.

Then why are you posting trolling <deleted> in this one?? Like you said the knitting forum....Wherever that is?

Edited May 21, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[monty]

Well you also mention having larger engines assuming the Caravan is also larger than 2.0 so not as critical as small bore.

Are your LP injection systems the Prins injector system or something similar it sounds like it? On those systems because of their adjustability and range they are more compatible with the on-board ECU so probably no need to disconnect it (O2 sensor).. But the preponderance of junk, read; low grade LP systems like the one installed in my car I can't see any way the average ECU can make a swing of that extreme..

They are indeed all larger engines.

The smallest one is the Nissan, which is a 2 liter v6 engine.

Italian made injection system, don't really know the brand. I do know they hook up some kind of a device to change settings when they tune it. When they did it they also asked if I wanted it tuned for best performance of for best economy. I opted for somewhere in between.

This system apparently uses it's own O2 sensor, they actually drilled a hole in the exhaust, welded a little thing on to hold the second O2 sensor. As there is no modification whatsoever to the air intake, the petrol system is 100% original and runs like it came out of the factory.

Paid about 45,000 Baht with a 70 liter (58 practical) LPG tank.

The caravelle (2.5 liter 5 cylinder) and the Volvo 2.4 liter 4 cylinder both run the old style vacuum system, but as they are only started on petrol and run maybe 1 minute before switching to LPG, I can't really say running peetrol is good or bad. I'm lucky enough to have an LPG station right round my corner! And I have a 120 liter LPG tank in the caravelle, so pretty hard to run out on that one

[katabeachbum]

Ok, this said, I'll throw in my experience with LPG, not as an installer but as a user.

I currently use LPG on 3 vehicles:

27 year old Volvo 245, almost 300,000 km mileage (last 100,000 on LPG), vacuum controlled.

5 year old Nissan Cefiro, 100,000 km, Italian multipoint LPG injection (last 40,000 on LPG).

10 year old VW Caravelle, 210,000 km, all of them on LPG (vacuum controlled).

Volvos 2,3 4pot and caravelles 2,5 5pot are probably the best LPG candiates in the world for small displacement engines. Never seen any LPG related issues on these 2 engines, even after 400k km as taxis or ambulances. In addition to reliability, they are also known to perform well (power and milage) running LPG with simple vacumsystems. If all engines could handle LPG this well, this thread would not be needed

[WarpSpeed]

Not to draw and end to the thread but I guess the conclusion is that it's all relative to the system used and the engines used so basically there is no definitive conclusion it comes down to a case by case basis for the most part..

[katabeachbum]

Ok, this said, I'll throw in my experience with LPG, not as an installer but as a user.

I currently use LPG on 3 vehicles:

27 year old Volvo 245, almost 300,000 km mileage (last 100,000 on LPG), vacuum controlled.

5 year old Nissan Cefiro, 100,000 km, Italian multipoint LPG injection (last 40,000 on LPG).

10 year old VW Caravelle, 210,000 km, all of them on LPG (vacuum controlled).

Volvos 2,3 4pot and caravelles 2,5 5pot are probably the best LPG candiates in the world for small displacement engines. Never seen any LPG related issues on these 2 engines, even after 400k km as taxis or ambulances. In addition to reliability, they are also known to perform well (power and milage) running LPG with simple vacumsystems. If all engines could handle LPG this well, this thread would not be needed

update

Volvos 5 pots, 2,0/2,3/2,5 with 2 valves and 4 valves are just as reliable on LPG, and has been offered factory fitted with LPG. The turbo models have an increase in power of approx 15% running LPG

[khooster]

Hi,

Just out of curiosity for a newbie like myself, but what about diesel engines? Enough of you guys drive diesels around (Vigos, Forutners, Pajero Sports etc) to have at least thought once of converting them. I'm aware that torodial tanks are available too so killing your storage space shouldnt be a reason not to.

Any ideas about the feasibility of converting diesel to LPG?

I pray this doesnt start another flaming war.

[transam]

Hi,

Just out of curiosity for a newbie like myself, but what about diesel engines? Enough of you guys drive diesels around (Vigos, Forutners, Pajero Sports etc) to have at least thought once of converting them. I'm aware that torodial tanks are available too so killing your storage space shouldnt be a reason not to.

Any ideas about the feasibility of converting diesel to LPG?

I pray this doesnt start another flaming war.

Flaming war , HERE, god forbid. All civilized here, well almost.

We have talked about this in the past. Where are the threads, hmmmmmmmmmmmm, don't know but katabeachbum will fill you in on the info for sure.

[WarpSpeed]

I will put up this one additional consideration that ads to the overall cost of properly installing an LP system especially on smaller cars.

To be fair it has to be taken into consideration that an upgrade of rear suspension is in order (stiffer spring rates and stronger dampers) with the additional weight being added the load is a significant increase when the weight of the LP tank, mounts and a full tank combined with any amount of fuel in the stock tank. Even a simple grocery shopping trip or just simple around town driving it's a good bet you're going to be bottoming out around Thailands 'smooth as a warped washboard' road system and doing damage to the suspension and tire wear on both front and rear with the heavy weight transfer..

It also stands to reason that this also heavily effects the brake wear and stopping distances, so an adjustment to driving habits at minimum or a brake upgrade would need to be seriously considered..

Edited January 20, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[katabeachbum]

Hi,

Just out of curiosity for a newbie like myself, but what about diesel engines? Enough of you guys drive diesels around (Vigos, Forutners, Pajero Sports etc) to have at least thought once of converting them. I'm aware that torodial tanks are available too so killing your storage space shouldnt be a reason not to.

Any ideas about the feasibility of converting diesel to LPG?

I pray this doesnt start another flaming war.

Flaming war , HERE, god forbid. All civilized here, well almost.

We have talked about this in the past. Where are the threads, hmmmmmmmmmmmm, don't know but katabeachbum will fill you in on the info for sure.

LPG works great with diesel, blended with diesel up to 30-50%, less fuel bill and more power. Afraid I havent seen any proper electronic controlled automatic system for LOS diesels yet. When I find I will install one

[katabeachbum]

I will put up this one additional consideration that ads to the overall cost of properly installing an LP system especially on smaller cars.

To be fair it has to be taken into consideration that an upgrade of rear suspension is in order (stiffer spring rates and stronger dampers) with the additional weight being added the load is a significant increase when the weight of the LP tank, mounts and a full tank combined with any amount of fuel in the stock tank. Even a simple grocery shopping trip or just simple around town driving it's a good bet you're going to be bottoming out around Thailands 'smooth as a warped washboard' road system and doing damage to the suspension and tire wear on both front and rear with the heavy weight transfer..

It also stands to reason that this also heavily effects the brake wear and stopping distances, so an adjustment to driving habits at minimum or a brake upgrade would need to be seriously considered..

We usually prefere to ignore the fact that crash safety is reduced with any weight installed in the rear of a vehicle.

[frtiz]

Question:

What would be the main objection to fitting a fuel injected LPG kit (Europegas) into a Honda CIty 1,5l. 2010? Given the fact hat you maintenance it properly of course. (cost of the operation are around 30K)

I drive about 55K a year. My main consideration now is that before you actually start saving money (40K on the meter now) you'll have a car with roughly 75K km. I've heard that cars with smaller displacements in Europe like the Toyota Aygo, C1 107 etc. still face problems with modern LPG kits around 100K km.Burnt in valves etc. Would that also be a problem with displacements of around 1500cc?

I have one car running on LPG toyota soluna 1,5 2002 with a vacuum/mixer system and OK with have had some problems, had to replace the valves etc. but all in all that didn't cost as much as having run on petrol. My wife has done as much as 150K kms with the soluna and it still does the job. Basically it's an older car and I'm not particularly worried about that as long as repairs don't occur too frequently. However, I'm slightly hesitant in fitting it into a newer car (9months old) besides the warranty issues.

Thanks,

[WarpSpeed]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

Edited February 22, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[frtiz]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

[katabeachbum]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

My experience with 4 valve 2000cc Hondas was not good. None managed 100k km without needing new valves, and some also needed pistons and head

warranty is void the day you install LPG or CNG, Honda LOS does not approve LPG or CNG at all

Toyota has one engine only in LOS CNG approved, old design 1,6 as used in 2010/2011 Altis, 100.000 km warranty on CNG. Mitsubishi CNG warranty is reduced from 160k km to 100k km

main problem is overheating of components in combustion chamber, thus 2stroke oil injection is not really a fix. CNG/LPG approved engines have these parts replaced with more heat resistant parts

a large, 5-8 liter engine with 200-400hp has huge amount of steelsurface in combustion chamber to absorbe the extra heat and thus spread it to cooling liquid. a 1500cc 4 valve producing 120 hp its all covered with valves, and most unable to handle the heat

Despite these sad news, LPG can still be financially sound, as these repairs are not that expensive on LOS made cars

running gasohol 5 minutes every hour may reduce damages

[frtiz]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

My experience with 4 valve 2000cc Hondas was not good. None managed 100k km without needing new valves, and some also needed pistons and head

warranty is void the day you install LPG or CNG, Honda LOS does not approve LPG or CNG at all

Toyota has one engine only in LOS CNG approved, old design 1,6 as used in 2010/2011 Altis, 100.000 km warranty on CNG. Mitsubishi CNG warranty is reduced from 160k km to 100k km

main problem is overheating of components in combustion chamber, thus 2stroke oil injection is not really a fix. CNG/LPG approved engines have these parts replaced with more heat resistant parts

Despite these sad news, LPG can still be financially sound, as these repairs are not that expensive on LOS made cars

running gasohol 5 minutes every hour may reduce damages

Thanks

That changes it a bit. 100K would be only 30k after I start saving money, and I'm not quite sure whether that would be interesting. I am hesitant with the smaller displacement engines. The RPM is higher and therefore probably causing more wear. In addition adding 1000rpm to the combustion temperature (as they say is the rule of thumb as an indication for LPG combustion) this would be a substantial increase (relatively) on a smaller engine.

In Europe there are quite a few models that are LPG equipped rolling out of the factory and I haven't heard that many issues with problems around 100K.

We have had a lengthy discussion with Honda Thailand on this issue and they said although they don't encourage people to install LPG in a Honda they can't legally void the warranty the moment people install it.

Would for instance changing to a Ford focus 2.0L be a smart move? Bigger engine, lower RPM and less wear and if you don't have a heavy right foot the increase in fuel consumption is relatively small.

Edited February 23, 2011 by frtiz

[katabeachbum]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

My experience with 4 valve 2000cc Hondas was not good. None managed 100k km without needing new valves, and some also needed pistons and head

warranty is void the day you install LPG or CNG, Honda LOS does not approve LPG or CNG at all

Toyota has one engine only in LOS CNG approved, old design 1,6 as used in 2010/2011 Altis, 100.000 km warranty on CNG. Mitsubishi CNG warranty is reduced from 160k km to 100k km

main problem is overheating of components in combustion chamber, thus 2stroke oil injection is not really a fix. CNG/LPG approved engines have these parts replaced with more heat resistant parts

Despite these sad news, LPG can still be financially sound, as these repairs are not that expensive on LOS made cars

running gasohol 5 minutes every hour may reduce damages

Thanks

That changes it a bit. 100K would be only 30k after I start saving money, and I'm not quite sure whether that would be interesting. I am hesitant with the smaller displacement engines. The RPM is higher and therefore probably causing more wear. In addition adding 1000rpm to the combustion temperature (as they say is the rule of thumb as an indication for LPG combustion) this would be a substantial increase (relatively) on a smaller engine.

In Europe there are quite a few models that are LPG equipped rolling out of the factory and I haven't heard that many issues with problems around 100K.

We have had a lengthy discussion with Honda Thailand on this issue and they said although they don't encourage people to install LPG in a Honda they can't legally void the warranty the moment people install it.

Would for instance changing to a Ford focus 2.0L be a smart move? Bigger engine, lower RPM and less wear and if you don't have a heavy right foot the increase in fuel consumption is relatively small.

warranty. manual states what fuels can be used, and as soon as engine is damaged, manufactorer simply says wrong fuel has been used

I have no experience on Ford/Volvos Yamaha developed 2,0 running LPG

Why not Ford Focus 2,0 TDCI, would probably manage 17 km/litres on B5

or Corolla Altis 1,6 CNG manufactorer installed, appox 7 baht/10 km fuel cost, and expect 2-300 k km without damages

[frtiz]

warranty. manual states what fuels can be used, and as soon as engine is damaged, manufactorer simply says wrong fuel has been used

I have no experience on Ford/Volvos Yamaha developed 2,0 running LPG

Why not Ford Focus 2,0 TDCI, would probably manage 17 km/litres on B5

or Corolla Altis 1,6 CNG manufactorer installed, appox 7 baht/10 km fuel cost, and expect 2-300 k km without damages

High new prices make them relatively unattractive for me. A 2-3 year old focus with 2.0 engine mileage around 50K will be around 500-550K

Focus 2.0TDCI is 1,2 m. and Altis with some options is around 760K.

In addition cng gets you a very low mileage on a tank meaning you have to queue up every 150-200Kms. for at least 30minutes to fill it up.

[WarpSpeed]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

Well fritz that's a part of the problem with your question and it doesn't change just by asking the question again.. It's a contentious issue and one that you have to read through to come to your own conclusions...

[transam]

This has been extensively debated both here in this thread and others, there is plenty of info between them to come to an educated decision. Being a 2010 though assuming it's still under warrantee will be your greatest consideration as you will likely loose it..

I'll try to read through the topics again.

However, spotting valuable information can sometimes be quite challenging if you have to read in between all the personal battles that are being fought out here in LPG related topics, hence my question.

Warranty is void only if can be proven that the damage can be claimed to be the result of modifications, i..e, an LPG installation.

Thanks, Fritz

Well fritz that's a part of the problem with your question and it doesn't change just by asking the question again.. It's a contentious issue and one that you have to read through to come to your own conclusions...

fritz, what l can tell you, having been in on the discussions on gas in the past is that kata was/is the the most knowledgeable on the subject from his own experiences over the years, might save you some reading.

[WarpSpeed]

Except that he has also concurred that VW engines are a top performer and that is why I posted generically in my response as there is no one magic bullet answer and in his case it pertains to a Honda in which case he pays his money and takes his chances..

I'm not certain what makes you the guru on who here has the most experience as you don't even have any experience with LP whatsoever and still haven't answered my query about that as I know in a previous topic..

Kata clearly has experience but he's not exclusive and you're the last person qualified to dismiss anyone else's experience.....

[transam]

Except that he has also concurred that VW engines are a top performer and that is why I posted generically in my response as there is no one magic bullet answer and in his case it pertains to a Honda in which case he pays his money and takes his chances..

I'm not certain what makes you the guru on who here has the most experience as you don't even have any experience with LP whatsoever and still haven't answered my query about that as I know in a previous topic..

Kata clearly has experience but he's not exclusive and you're the last person qualified to dismiss anyone else's experience.....

Clearly you haven't read all the posts on gas, especially from kata. Me, learnt a lot. No haven't had a gas car but logic and understanding from those who have had MANY sinks in, yes even me Warps. As l can think of stuff from an engineering and an exotic fuel user (was) point of view then l can post my thoughts.

[katabeachbum]

Except that he has also concurred that VW engines are a top performer and that is why I posted generically in my response as there is no one magic bullet answer and in his case it pertains to a Honda in which case he pays his money and takes his chances..

I'm not certain what makes you the guru on who here has the most experience as you don't even have any experience with LP whatsoever and still haven't answered my query about that as I know in a previous topic..

Kata clearly has experience but he's not exclusive and you're the last person qualified to dismiss anyone else's experience.....

The best VW survivers on LPG are the 2 valves inline 4 2,0 and inline 5 2,5. Have seen up to 400k km on them. VW also has 4 decades of Ethanol/gasohol experience from Brazil, but again 2 valves mainly

I do not have the same trust in their 4 and 5 valves 1000-2000cc, simply to small head area to pick up the combustion heat

and as for guru, my knowledge is almost 10 years by know, many things have changed, but still an engine with large combustion chamber and small valve area is the LPG/CNG survivor as it is able to spread the increased combustionheat on more metal allowing coolingliquid to remove heat

Volvo same experience, inline 5 2,5 2 valve factory fitted LPG

[frtiz]

Alright, well thanks anyway.

I did my homework before I asked the question. Turned out no previous posts for Honda city, nor what the effect on low displacement engines was, hence my question.

I just wanted to make a thoughtful decision in this situation.

However, I'll just go and play hide and seek at this point and mind my own business again.