Thailand Rejects Reds Ceasefire Call As Nonsense

[Jimmu]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Well obviously your friend was telling you porkies! (For non native English; pork pies=lies!)

[tgw]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

It's becoming more and more clearer they don't have the authority to stop the protests.

I more or less agree... The red leaders *could* do it if they just *could*... but they can't.

It becomes more and more clear that their job was just to heat up the crowds.

Thaksin has more and more blood on his hands.

Paris is farther than the gates of Chulalongkorn Hospital.

[hansnl]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

Absolutely agree. This is a Military elected Government. End of story.

When were thiose military elections?

Last elections I remember were those where the Mr T group bought votes.

There was a free election, Mr T did not win 51%, so coalition time.

Coalitions can break up, happens in a lot of countries.

[lucjoker]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

So you are thinking about the future of the thai people and that is an excuse for putting children into a dangerous situation......Thaksins tactics sound a little like Saddam's to me!

The thing that saddens me is that the end result of any election will be a "strong" leader and not a "fair" one - well remember this Abhisit's tactics have been aimed at risking lfe as little as possible - a "strong" PM would have marched in at the end of the first weekend and known that as far as the world and most people in the country are concerned a few hundred deaths would have been "yesterdays news" by now. Is that the kind of leadership Thai's really want?

"fair" is is a non -existing word in politics !

Elections are won by whoever bribes the most !

Ex-Thaksin politicians joined the current goverment after been paid 30 milj bht per head.And so Abishit became the new PM.

There is no immediat solution to the problem,there are milions of red-shirts all over Thailand,with a deep (indoctrinated) belief and love for Thaksin ('s monney).Kicking out the 5000 out of BKK,is not changing annything !

In the end "Monney" will win !

Neighterway nothing will change for the average people,just other politicians to do the same fraudes.

[featography]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Step back and look at the big picture, and the history of events since Aug. 2006. Maybe Taksin started this, but it has mushroomed and exploded far beyond him. He is being blown away in the tailwind, groping hard to hang onto the Red movement's shirt tail. This movement is taking over the country, one square kilometer at a time. It no longer matters if Taksin is still alive or finally met his maker, the movement is unstoppable, and wont even slow down after his demise. It may or may not be pushed underground, forming a deeper rooted grass roots organization, but be fully aware, this country is changing and the military is scared sh@#$less. Not one person in TV has denied that the govt is corrupt. Well the govt is equally scared because this movement may never be squashed. Unlike the 70's and 1992, everyone has access to the internet and everyone is learning from the world, and this political control is no longer acceptable. Thai want what the civilized west has; Democracy, freedom of expression without reprecussions. It may or may not develop into a Democracy that we are accustomed to in our home countries but anything that develops will be far better than what they have now.

[gemini81]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

It means they will do the opposite. I see the pattern!

[featography]

If you read an today's article in MSNBC titles "Thai protests expose military rifts, incompetence", you will know why this has gone so long, also it show not only the incompetence in military and police also in all the level of Government including PM office.

God help the Thai people, this may go on for years

100% agree, seriously shocking incompetence by the military. If the country's military can't even put down a 5000 person revolt, <deleted> would they do if they were ever called into a real combat situation with an invading force?

At this point i can't even see why Thailand even has a military?

Get a clue, if Thailand ever has a real combat situation from an outside invading force, they would know the force is not THAI. They would do what they have done for hundreds of years...........Kick unholy A$$ on those invaders. Please study Thai history before your irrational and very emotionally influenced opinion is made.

[fyaman001]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Puh-Leeze! you understand 'international face/body language' ? One more idiot in the mix. Instead of reading body language and watching news in a language you don't understand, try CNN, AP, AFP and any number of others. It is FACTUAL that Abhisit agreed to all their demands-the Reds kept changing their demands until it was so ridiculous the government couldn't deal with them. Now they admit Thaksin is funding the whole thing...i hope their is a bullet with his name on it!

[Pui]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Thats it, in a nut shell.

The government need to get rid of these idiots without extending deadlines.

Water cannons would be the first choice backed-up with some automatic weapons. These gangs are clearly armed so the army need to be more heavily armed. Thats how it works. Anything to show these criminals whos in charge.

No government would allow this around the world. Peaceful demonstrations do not last 8 weeks. They have no political agenda at all other than that they don't want this government in office. Thats all the big man "Thaksin" has said that they understand. Whats there alternative? The red shirts in office? They are farm hands paid for by Thaksin. For now they need to go home(or be arrested) and let Bangkok people get on with their working lives. There will be an opportunity to vote when elections come.

The government will not and should not ever give in to mob rule.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Pui

[gemini81]

Good! You can't negotiate with anarchist criminals who have been shown remarkable tolerance thus far. Their criminal mob have held the Country to ransom for long enough and their concern for human life is hypocritically one sided stemming only from the desire of their leaders to get an amnesty so they can go off and spend Thaksin's millions.

Where do you get such garbage? They want democratically elected governments to be left alone to rule without the elitist army backed thugs removing them from power and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest. It's the government who are the criminals.

where do you get this garbage that the reds are democratic?! if they had an open free election in the democratic sense, they would outright lose as the minority group. they vote based on "this guy is my friend, he does good for me." there is no judge of character by the rural folk. thaksin exploited that. its still the same people with the same views, and its still the same old politicians.

their actions are the polar opposite of democratic.

by the way, they hate what they think of as the urban elite, and those who they see as having priveleged lives. a bloody revolution against the government...sounds a little too much like Pol Pot.

[bhakta]

Someone here is supporting the Red Shirts? Are you mad? Thaksin is a criminal; he has been legally convicted; he jumped bail; he has been instigating and financing this madness for months or years. He should surrender, shut his mouth and serve his sentence and be very happy the courts did not seize ALL his wealth. The REDS who are setting fire on the main streets of Bangkok should be arrested and jailed for lengthy sentences. I am amazed the government has been so restrained. Were I the head of state I doubt I'd have the patience that this government has shown.

[Steely Dan]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Step back and look at the big picture, and the history of events since Aug. 2006. Maybe Taksin started this, but it has mushroomed and exploded far beyond him. He is being blown away in the tailwind, groping hard to hang onto the Red movement's shirt tail. This movement is taking over the country, one square kilometer at a time. It no longer matters if Taksin is still alive or finally met his maker, the movement is unstoppable, and wont even slow down after his demise. It may or may not be pushed underground, forming a deeper rooted grass roots organization, but be fully aware, this country is changing and the military is scared sh@#$less. Not one person in TV has denied that the govt is corrupt. Well the govt is equally scared because this movement may never be squashed. Unlike the 70's and 1992, everyone has access to the internet and everyone is learning from the world, and this political control is no longer acceptable. Thai want what the civilized west has; Democracy, freedom of expression without reprecussions. It may or may not develop into a Democracy that we are accustomed to in our home countries but anything that develops will be far better than what they have now.

Is your freedom of expression holding the Country to ransom, theft, arson, blocking roads and searching cars, gun and bomb attacks on rival political parties?

Don't make me laugh the reds have nothing whatsoever in common with democracy, it is all about the return of their paternal despot.

Also democracy is not only about rights it is about responsibility too.

[Samuian]

asking for mercy and new negotiations,

to turn around then and say:

"Hey, we got you on your knees, haven't we?

this government is incompetent, a toy at the hands of the mighty,

we want them to step down and go home, NO further negotiations!"

well the evidence is all out there, for everyone to see!

Suthep is right if he says: "..it's nonsense"! Utter nonsense!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Samuian

[dave111223]

If you read an today's article in MSNBC titles "Thai protests expose military rifts, incompetence", you will know why this has gone so long, also it show not only the incompetence in military and police also in all the level of Government including PM office.

God help the Thai people, this may go on for years

100% agree, seriously shocking incompetence by the military. If the country's military can't even put down a 5000 person revolt, <deleted> would they do if they were ever called into a real combat situation with an invading force?

At this point i can't even see why Thailand even has a military?

Get a clue, if Thailand ever has a real combat situation from an outside invading force, they would know the force is not THAI. They would do what they have done for hundreds of years...........Kick unholy A$$ on those invaders. Please study Thai history before your irrational and very emotionally influenced opinion is made.

Oh because they did so well against the Japanese. Or i'm sorry they "allied" with Japan (is that what they are teaching in school these days?) and all those Thai's who died on the death railway did so on their own free will?

[nakachalet]

URGENT.... TODAY ONLY

AMERICAN CITIZEN ONLY

PLS READ AND DECIDE IF YOU LIKE TO JOIN IN BY USING INTERNET

Edited May 18, 2010 by nakachalet

[whybother]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

How many of the red leaders are elected politicians? I think only Jataporn is.

So even without the red leaders, the red political party (PTP), who have stayed VERY much on the fringes of this protest, will still be able to campaign in future elections.

[dobadoy]

Get a clue, if Thailand ever has a real combat situation from an outside invading force, they would know the force is not THAI. They would do what they have done for hundreds of years...........Kick unholy A$ on those invaders. Please study Thai history before your irrational and very emotionally influenced opinion is made.

You seem confused. Name a war that Thailand has won? Tell me what 'victory' is Victory Monument named after?

It is you that doesn't know your history.

That said, I do agree that the military's present incompetence reflects nothing about their ability to deal with a clearly identified external aggresor.

Motivation is the key factor in all military campaigns, closely followed by leadership, strategy and logistics. In all these areas, the current red shirt insurgents appear to have the advantage over the security forces. Not necessarily true if the enemy were Cambodia.

Edited May 18, 2010 by dobadoy

[Deeral]

"lthere are to be elections in November" - Abhisit has removed this offer!!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Deeral

[Jimmu]

If you read an today's article in MSNBC titles "Thai protests expose military rifts, incompetence", you will know why this has gone so long, also it show not only the incompetence in military and police also in all the level of Government including PM office.

God help the Thai people, this may go on for years

100% agree, seriously shocking incompetence by the military. If the country's military can't even put down a 5000 person revolt, <deleted> would they do if they were ever called into a real combat situation with an invading force?

At this point i can't even see why Thailand even has a military?

Get a clue, if Thailand ever has a real combat situation from an outside invading force, they would know the force is not THAI. They would do what they have done for hundreds of years...........Kick unholy A$$ on those invaders. Please study Thai history before your irrational and very emotionally influenced opinion is made.

Actually the Thai military have a poor record. Remember a little incident in Ayutthaya. Or the Japanese... You need to read more!

[selftaopath]

Thanksin should be ashamed of what he did. I hope the government crackdown hard!

Humn???? Maybe not. There is a diagnosis for those who feel no remorse.

[nakachalet]

sorry, an unrelated announcement....

for u.s. citizen only

A U.S. CONSULATE MEETING TODAY, AT 4:00 PM

Edited May 18, 2010 by nakachalet

[Who, me ?]

"lthere are to be elections in November" - Abhisit has removed this offer!!

Care to complete your post and to state why did Abhisit removed his offer ?

[lowbo]

URGENT.... TODAY ONLY

appreciate the info... I'm not in BKK, but would like to hear/see what our representatives have to say.

[whybother]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Do you know what Abhisit said "No" to?

The reds demanded only one thing. They didn't compromise or negotiate. They only ever demand.

Their demand from the start was "government dissolution". Abhisit quite rightly said "No".

Instead, Abhisit offered a plan. Fix the constitution with input from ALL parties, a referendum for the people to vote, and then elections in December.

The reds stopped negotiating, and refused to negotiate further. And they didn't change their demand.

Abhisit then offered the "road map" with elections in November, if the protests stop. The reds basically accepted, but then went back on their word by continuing the protests.

The only ones that have been unmoving is the reds. Abhisit offered negotiations. Abhisit offered compromises. All the reds would offer is more protests. No negotiation. No compromise.

If they really wanted to negotiate, they would stop expanding their protest zone, and instead pull back to their original locations. The army would stay where they are, where they have been for 2 weeks - it's only been the reds that have pushed out.

Even now, they say they will negotiate IF the army pulls back. Nothing about the reds pulling back. Just the army.

[Screws]

'and then slaughtering them in the streets when they protest."

The first shot was fired by yesterdays hero - or his henchmen. And his famous last words were 'The Thai Army will never get in here' before he was shot in the head.

Good riddance, Seh Daeng.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Screws

[bhakta]

To the reds - if it has not escaped your attention - you have won! - there are to be elections in November - but if the protest and violence continues then you are putting those at risk because you cannot hold fair elections in the immediate aftermath of something like these protests - the country needs time to settle down and reflect on the political choices in an atmosphere of calm....... oh wait or is fair and free elections really their aim? Maybe anarchy and a "triumphant return" by a "hero Thaksin" is what you really seek.

that is EXACTLY correct.

the reds are winning, and if this isnt stopped we'll have anarchy and devil thaksin will return.

THE REDS ARE NOT WINNING ANYTHING. They have done nothing except make themselves out as fools and rascals. They do not care anything for their country.

the way to stop it is to grant a general amnesty to all Reds except OF COURSE to the devil himself.

GRANT AMNESTY to these rogues? Are you mad???

you cant bring the Reds back inside the poltical system if their leaders are in jail AND the coup plotters and assissasins of sae daeng arent. double standards isnt what convinces people to return.

They should be in jail and they are lucky there are not shot in the head. If they were in China, they would all be dead long ago, or in Burma, or in Vietnam, or in Singapore.

if the sunni tribal chiefs could be brought back into the fold in iraq, so can the reds in thailand. amnesty and internationally sponsored free and fair electins are the way to do that.

and every day the killing of innocents (and others) in places like Din Deang and Bon Kai continues, the goverment loses support.

abhisit is a very wise guy. IF he is still in charge, we will have amnesty, just as thailand granted it to the communists in 1976. its only a matter of time.

Step back and look at the big picture, and the history of events since Aug. 2006. Maybe Taksin started this, but it has mushroomed and exploded far beyond him. He is being blown away in the tailwind, groping hard to hang onto the Red movement's shirt tail. This movement is taking over the country, one square kilometer at a time. It no longer matters if Taksin is still alive or finally met his maker, the movement is unstoppable, and wont even slow down after his demise. It may or may not be pushed underground, forming a deeper rooted grass roots organization, but be fully aware, this country is changing and the military is scared sh@#$less. Not one person in TV has denied that the govt is corrupt. Well the govt is equally scared because this movement may never be squashed. Unlike the 70's and 1992, everyone has access to the internet and everyone is learning from the world, and this political control is no longer acceptable. Thai want what the civilized west has; Democracy, freedom of expression without reprecussions. It may or may not develop into a Democracy that we are accustomed to in our home countries but anything that develops will be far better than what they have now.

Is your freedom of expression holding the Country to ransom, theft, arson, blocking roads and searching cars, gun and bomb attacks on rival political parties?

Don't make me laugh the reds have nothing whatsoever in common with democracy, it is all about the return of their paternal despot.

Also democracy is not only about rights it is about responsibility too.

[Steely Dan]

At ratchaprasong, the #redshirts guards take a female journalist behind the stage. http://tweetphoto.com/22910119 /via @satien_nna

Female journalist detained behind the red stage, probably due to uncovering something incriminating. Yet another example of red democracy in action.

[Wuffy]

It IS nonsense. No one can trust their word anymore, because they keep stalling. They should have negotiated in good faith before things got hairy; they need to stand down, before things get even worse.

I don't know what you were doing during hours and days that the initial negotiating was going on between the Reds and Abisit, but I sat glued to the tv with a friend who translated it to me. When each day was over, I asked what was agreed on? His answer was, no agreement. Abisit only know one word; NO.

This is not negotiating nor is it coming to a compromise. I don't speak Thai, but I do understand the international body/facial language, and what my friend says coincides with what I saw. Even he, who leans more towards yellow and definitely is not red, laughed and shook his head several times during the process at how unmoving Abisit was.

Do you know what Abhisit said "No" to?

The reds demanded only one thing. They didn't compromise or negotiate. They only ever demand.

Their demand from the start was "government dissolution". Abhisit quite rightly said "No".

Instead, Abhisit offered a plan. Fix the constitution with input from ALL parties, a referendum for the people to vote, and then elections in December.

The reds stopped negotiating, and refused to negotiate further. And they didn't change their demand.

Abhisit then offered the "road map" with elections in November, if the protests stop. The reds basically accepted, but then went back on their word by continuing the protests.

The only ones that have been unmoving is the reds. Abhisit offered negotiations. Abhisit offered compromises. All the reds would offer is more protests. No negotiation. No compromise.

If they really wanted to negotiate, they would stop expanding their protest zone, and instead pull back to their original locations. The army would stay where they are, where they have been for 2 weeks - it's only been the reds that have pushed out.

Even now, they say they will negotiate IF the army pulls back. Nothing about the reds pulling back. Just the army.

Absolutely.

[SiamGram]

If they want democracy then why didn't they "vote" Taskin in. They only want it when it is convenient for them.

[Screws]

And exactly how is Aphisit exploiting the rural poor? By giving them (everybody, in fact) free education, free school uniforms, free text books. And expanding the microcredit programmes to cover as much of the country as possible - ooh, nasty.

Perhaps the red sympathisers could elaborate on Aphisits exploitation - but talk about during his term, not the historical (hysterical) shit you guys keep feeding the media. Which they lap up because fights get people watching & reading. There is blood (much of it Red) on the hands of the media as well.