Thai Troops Violate Law In Bangkok Action: Amnesty

[yoshiwara]

Two guys go into a mini-mart. One has a gun, and kills the cashier. Per U.S. law, both robbers are charged with murder in the first degree.

Participating in a criminal act along with others who are armed is legally equal to being armed. The responsibility for injuries and death inflicted are shared equally by all who participate.

were either or both of the two guys in the mini-mart elected governments of sovereign nations with remits to protect their people and their people's interests in line with UN and international laws?

if not your analogy is a bit shit really isn't it?

Yes, agree with you that some RED shirt need to be executed death penalty by law. BUT not before a fair hearing is conducted.

It this too much to ask? A fair trial?

Deal with that after the red rioting is finished and over.

[yoshiwara]

Well said! Like Thaksin or hate him, you can't deny the fact that he was the first Thai prime minister to address the needs of the rural population in Thailand

These blind sheep will deny anything positive about thaksin period

You mean the convicted criminal Thaksin bankroller of the current riots?

Or somebody else?

Look who convicted him no credability whatsover bit like how the yellws from last year are free and the red protesters are already locked up and sentenced within 24 hours

No cred whatsover

You are not really up to date are you?

the reds pleaded guilty.

Surprise you?

[Rucharee]

There has been a staggering amount of deaths and casualty.

Staggering? If the army did not exercise so much restraint, I think there would be hundreds more deaths by now. They are still firing only single shots aren't they, and not automatic?

The protesters should simply go home, as they have way overstayed their welcome (if you could call it "welcome").

I would like to know out of the 279 injured how many of those were shot by the army I bet its 80% of them

It would also be interesting to know what those 279 were doing at the time they were injured.

Some of them are ambulance staff, helping the unfortunates. Until they turn unfortunate themselves. A couple even died, and this is a fact.

[cougar52]

Has anyone seen the CNN news clip with the red protester ?

And just think! This IDIOT is now the Red Shirt top dog......

I think I'll go out and make me one of those " hand made guns" just so I have some protection when someone tries to stop me from exercising my God given right to commit mayhem and murder.

TGIR--- What I think is absolutely laughable is when Dr. weng explains that this pistol has a range of maybe only 10 meters???

LESS THAN 11 FEET

But you know he was well trained by the communists.

[Ijustwannateach]

I am loathe to post in any way to seem to take so-called 'sides' here- but I really have to laugh about Amnesty complaining that the government here has violated the 'law'. Which 'law'? Since the police disappeared, I haven't been aware that there was any operative 'law' here in the city, and if this crisis ever ends it will be interesting to see on what basis the 'police' claim the right to 'enforce' any other 'law'.

I suppose it could be about the Geneva Convention or some other treaty to which Thailand is a signatory, but I doubt that the terrorists care- they're not exactly playing by the whole 'wear a uniform which identifies you' kind of thing, which kind of makes it hard to determine who is who according to the rules of war- or that the way-too-inexperienced-and-untrained army recruits have exactly been filled in on the subtleties.

All-in-all, a poor showing for Thailand.

[Heng]

I don't side with either side, but friends in the area do say that there are some Reds going around shooting indiscriminately (not shooting each other, but trying to hit folks who have nothing to do with either side), apparently to fluff up the numbers of casualties or perhaps because they assume (perhaps rightly so in many cases), that folks who can afford 5-15+ million Baht shophouses in the area likely aren't on 'their side,' so they may as well release some pent up frustration/envy.

Personally, I didn't really believe it myself when the Army spokesman said that was happening (that "the Reds were shooting each other") as it sounded rather silly. But when I hear it from folks who don't really stand to benefit or even like either group...

Edited May 18, 2010 by Heng

[Steely Dan]

Such an important press release from an organisation that has such credibility around the globe. I'm taking my tongue out of my cheek now.

amnesty international is a widely respected organisation .

That is a good one!

I await amnesty's report on how Red supporters assult and even murder political opponents, set up roadblocks and search, intimidate and demand money for residents to get back to their homes. I await amnesty to condemn the arson, the looting, and violent assembly holding a city to ransom. I await amnesty condemning the use of women and children as human shields. I await the report of paramilitary assassins mingling freely amongst the red shirts. I await condemnation of the environmental nightmare caused by retarded sociopaths burning tyres throughout the city.

I expect to keep on waiting, AA have become sadly politicized taking a kneejerk leftist stance on every issue, a pale shadow of a once worthwhile organization.

[gemini81]

Well said! Like Thaksin or hate him, you can't deny the fact that he was the first Thai prime minister to address the needs of the rural population in Thailand

That does not give him the right to destroy the country in order to get revenge.

he was just the most cunning at assessing them and their needs and character, and exploiting them. they're friendly people generally in the NE poor regions, no wonder they fell hook line and sinker for him and his ploy. now I don't know which crowds of thugs are down there causing the hel_l and mayhem, a mix maybe, local thugs and upcountry guys and jaded ex soldiers, but they sure don't carry their friendliness when they come to the capital. this guy just maybe go down in the vile bowels of history as one of the most cunning con artists.

[Rucharee]

Yes, agree with you that some RED shirt need to be executed death penalty by law. BUT not before a fair hearing is conducted.

It this too much to ask? A fair trial?

Deal with that after the red rioting is finished and over.

How do you plan put a dead man / woman / child / soldier on trial when it is over? There is no trial for the dead. Dead is dead.

[Ijustwannateach]

A racist post has been deleted. The normal rules for Thaivisa continue to apply in the political threads.

[maccaroni man]

I am loathe to post in any way to seem to take so-called 'sides' here- but I really have to laugh about Amnesty complaining that the government here has violated the 'law'. Which 'law'? Since the police disappeared, I haven't been aware that there was any operative 'law' here in the city, and if this crisis ever ends it will be interesting to see on what basis the 'police' claim the right to 'enforce' any other 'law'.

I suppose it could be about the Geneva Convention or some other treaty to which Thailand is a signatory, but I doubt that the terrorists care- they're not exactly playing by the whole 'wear a uniform which identifies you' kind of thing, which kind of makes it hard to determine who is who according to the rules of war- or that the way-too-inexperienced-and-untrained army recruits have exactly been filled in on the subtleties.

All-in-all, a poor showing for Thailand.

dont worry i dont know of any country that takes AI seriously.

[cougar52]

Yes, agree with you that some RED shirt need to be executed death penalty by law. BUT not before a fair hearing is conducted.

REDS have already been excecuted without trial look at Da Saeng execution if ever i saw one

For info only it is Seh Daeng who you are trying to allude to. And no one knows who did it, it may even even have been the reds to, after all he had happened to threaten some of the red leaders with death if they did not keep the course. And that is in his own words from one of his interviews. He even named the leaders that wanted to defect and mentioned who he felt were loyal to "Taksin".

[TheItaliann]

I don't side with either side, but friends in the area do say that there are some Reds going around shooting indiscriminately (not shooting each other, but trying to hit folks who have nothing to do with either side), apparently to fluff up the numbers of casualties. Personally, I didn't really believe it myself when the Army spokesman said that was happening (that "the Reds were shooting each other") as it sounded rather silly. But when I hear it from folks who don't really stand to benefit or even like either group...

The last few days have most definitely attracted the psychopaths who would have otherwise spent the week looking for stray animals to murder. I don't think dodging sniper fire and arson is a source of entertainment for sane people, but then again, my social demographic is not a motorcycle taxi queue.

[stingray]

Such an important press release from an organisation that has such credibility around the globe. I'm taking my tongue out of my cheek now.

So for what is then the army for, if they have no right to use weapons. Noone called the reds. They are free to go, if they no want get problems.

In other word means, that everyone can protest, damage any peaples business, property, shot against the army, plundering, burning things, etc, without any punishment? You can see what the Immigrants doing in Europe, therefore Europ goes down.

Easy to talk from some confortable leather chair office in England, when not seeing or knowing the truth.

[Shah Jahan]

An interesting interview with Thaksin's lawyer on Al Jazeera today.

5555

does that mean he is working without a work permit.. .

[FarangCravings]

Yes, agree with you that some RED shirt need to be executed death penalty by law. BUT not before a fair hearing is conducted.

REDS have already been excecuted without trial look at Da Saeng execution if ever i saw one

For info only it is Seh Daeng who you are trying to allude to. And no one knows who did it, it may even even have been the reds to, after all he had happened to threaten some of the red leaders with death if they did not keep the course. And that is in his own words from one of his interviews. He even named the leaders that wanted to defect and mentioned who he felt were loyal to "Taksin".

Yeah thats him however I and many others believe he was assasinated by the government, funny how as soon as there are government snipers deployed he is suddenly targeted.

Believe what you will that's your right as is mine to believe it was the government who ordered his killing

[Steely Dan]

I don't side with either side, but friends in the area do say that there are some Reds going around shooting indiscriminately (not shooting each other, but trying to hit folks who have nothing to do with either side), apparently to fluff up the numbers of casualties or perhaps because they assume (perhaps rightly so in many cases), that folks who can afford 5-15+ million Baht shophouses in the area likely aren't on 'their side,' so they may as well release some pent up frustration/envy.

Personally, I didn't really believe it myself when the Army spokesman said that was happening (that "the Reds were shooting each other") as it sounded rather silly. But when I hear it from folks who don't really stand to benefit or even like either group...

I guess this is the Waco tactic, if you are penned in with no escape then force a massacre by shooting at innocent bystanders so the army has no choice but to come in with yet more loss of life. - I guess these must be fake reds eh Dr Weng?

[Crushdepth]

Amnesty is a good organisation. Unfortunately, human rights become a theoretical concern when people on the ground feel threatened.

[Ulysses G.]

Believe what you will that's your right as is mine to believe it was the government who ordered his killing

It was the government... or the other redshirts that he pissed off... or the the big shots that own big department stores or...

[rabo]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

I would say that many people are unable to read because of preconceived notions.

I still don't see where Amnesty has accused the Army of shooting the medics. Albeit there article has their familiar bias, not that the bias is intentional or malicious. Here is their actual wording, I have tried to include enough to give a fair representation.

"Eye-witness accounts and video recordings show clearly

that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat

whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Benjamin Zawacki, Amnesty

International's Thailand specialist. "This is a gross violation of a key

human right--the right to life".

"Deliberately firing live ammunition at unarmed people, whether they be

protesters or otherwise and who pose no credible threat to anyone else, is

unlawful", said Zawacki.

Since 13 May, when the government began "Operation Rachaprasong",

soldiers have fired rubber and live rounds in and around protest sites in

several parts of Bangkok. The government claims that there are around 500

"terrorists" hiding among the protesters.

At least 35 unarmed protesters have been killed. The dead include two medics

who were wearing white medical uniforms with visible red crosses, shot on 15

and 16 May; and a 17 year-old boy, shot on 15 May. Maj. Gen. Khattiya

Sawatdiphon (known as "Seh Daeng"), a military advisor for the

protesters, was struck by a sniper's bullet on 14 May and died on 17 May. In

addition another soldier has been killed.

If anyone can show me where AI clearly says the Army shot the the medics I would appreciate it. Yes, there tone clearly shows thay have taken sides against the Army, but I do not see the factual statement that each and every death was do to Army shooting. Do you?

Also note, by their account they do say that the two medics were protesters. This is not a well written announcement.

Edited May 18, 2010 by rabo

[cdnvic]

Some personal attacks deleted, along with posts which had mangled quotes.

[jcbangkok]

Watch at 32 seconds (look at man on right) and you will see why Reds are using fireworks and why fireworks & bottle rockets always precede attacks such as the grenade attacks on the SkyTrain.

[Crushdepth]

An interesting interview with Thaksin's lawyer on Al Jazeera today.

5555

does that mean he is working without a work permit.. .

Very amusing, thank you. Reporter does a great job of jamming it up Thaksin's lawyer.

[tonyPhuket]

Open Letter to CNN International Share Yesterday at 16:19 Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN’s viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

As a first-rate global news agency, CNN has an inherent professional duty to deliver all sides of the truth to the global public who have faithfully and sincerely placed their trust and reliance in you. Your news network, by its longtime transnational presence and extensive reach, has been put in a position of trust and care; CNN’s journalists, reporters, and researchers have a collective responsibility to follow the journalist's code and ethics to deliver and present facts from all facets of the story, not merely one-sided, shallow and sensational half-truths. The magnitude of harm or potential extent of damage that erroneous and fallacious news reporting can cause to (and exacerbate), not only a country’s internal state of affairs, economic well-being, and general international perception, but also the real lives and livelihood of the innocent and voiceless people of that nation, is enormous. CNN should not negligently discard its duty of care to the international populace by reporting single-sided or unverified facts and distorted truths drawn from superficial research, or display/distribute biased images which capture only one side of the actual event.

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider have NOT done their best under these life-threatening circumstances because many other foreign correspondents have done better. All of Mr. Rivers and Ms. Sniders' quotes and statements seem to have been solely taken from the anti-government protest leaders or their followers/sympathizers. Yet, all details about the government’s position have come from secondary resources. No direct interviews with government officials have been shown; no interviews or witness statements from ordinary Bangkok residents or civilians unaffiliated with the protesters, particularly those who have been harassed by or suffered at the hands of the protesters, have been circulated.

Why the discrepancy in source of information? Why the failure to report all of the government’s previous numerous attempts to negotiate or invitations for protesters to go home? Why no broadcasts shown of the myriad ways the red protesters have terrorized and harmed innocent civilians by burning their shops, enclosing burning tyres around apartment buildings, shooting glass marbles at civilians from high altitudes, attacking civilians in their cars, and worst of all, obstructing paramedics and ambulances carrying civilians injured by M79 grenade blasts during the Silom incident of April 24, 2010, thereby resulting in the sole civilian casualty? The entire timeline of events that have forced the government to take this difficult stance has been hugely and callously ignored in deference to the red ‘underdogs’.

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider’s choice of sensational vocabulary and terminology in every newscast or news report, and choice of images to broadcast, has resulted in law-abiding soldiers and the heavily-pressured Thai government being painted in a negative, harsh, and oppressive light, whereas the genuinely violent and law-breaking arm of the anti-government protesters - who are directly responsible for overt acts of aggression not only against armed soldiers but also against helpless, unarmed civilians and law-abiding apolitical residents of this once blooming metropolis (and whose actions under American law would by now be classified as terrorist activities) – are portrayed as righteous freedom fighters deserving of worldwide sympathy and support. This has mislead the various international Human Rights watchdogs to believe the Thai government are sending trigger-happy soldiers out to ruthlessly murder unarmed civilians without just cause.

As a current resident of "war zone" Bangkok who has experienced the effect of the Red protests first hand and is living in a state of constant terror and anxiety as to whether her family, friends, and home would get bombed or attacked by the hardcore anti-government vigilantes/paramilitary forces - I appeal to CNN's professional integrity to critically investigate and scrutinize the misinformed news reporting of your above-named correspondents. If they are incapable of obtaining genuine, authentic facts from any other source except the Red Protest leaders and red-sympathizing Thai translators or acquaintances, or from fellow non-Thai-speaking journalists who are similarly ignorant of Thai language, culture, history, and society, then perhaps CNN should consider reassigning field correspondents to Thailand.

I implore and urge you to please take serious action to correct or reverse the grave injustice that has been done to the Thai nation, her government, and the majority of law-abiding Thai citizens and expatriate residents by having endorsed and widely circulated poorly researched and misrepresented news coverage of the current ongoing political unrest and escalating violence in Thailand.

Copies of this open letter have also been distributed to other local as well as international news media and social networks for public information. Please feel free to contact me further should you require any additional concrete and reputable evidence in substantiation and corroboration of my complaints and claims stated hereinabove.

Thank you.

Yours faithfully,

Napas Na Pombejra, B.A., LL.B. (Lond.)

Bangkok, Thailand

May 17, 2010

Edited May 18, 2010 by cdnvic
Too many links to verify so removed

[gymboy33]

Mr. Taylor the infamous African dictator recently charged with genocide has often claimed that the massacres committed by his troops were actually the opposition killing themselves.

now the cres/goverment are trying the same line...

history repeating itself

[ukfool]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[gemini81]

Yes, agree with you that some RED shirt need to be executed death penalty by law. BUT not before a fair hearing is conducted.

REDS have already been excecuted without trial look at Da Saeng execution if ever i saw one

For info only it is Seh Daeng who you are trying to allude to. And no one knows who did it, it may even even have been the reds to, after all he had happened to threaten some of the red leaders with death if they did not keep the course. And that is in his own words from one of his interviews. He even named the leaders that wanted to defect and mentioned who he felt were loyal to "Taksin".

Yeah thats him however I and many others believe he was assasinated by the government, funny how as soon as there are government snipers deployed he is suddenly targeted.

Believe what you will that's your right as is mine to believe it was the government who ordered his killing

he wasn't hit by a sniper. They use 50 CALIBER! His head would have been gone with one sniper shot. He was shot twice. the accuracy of a sniper wouldn't need a second shot. and the range, much closer than what a sniper can manage.

well hats off to whoever did it!

[ukfool]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

Yes only 1 soldier, shows the restraint or lack of guns the reds have. How many civilians have been murdered ?

[gemini81]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

those aren't rubber bullets! if he isn't there he won't get hurt either.

[rabo]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.