Battle In Bangkok - This Is No Peasant's Revolt

[nickupton]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

The Nation is part of the Yellow camp. Its Sino-Thai owners (the Yoons) have little if anything in common with the peasants of Issan. They are part of the BKK elite.

Yawn. if they have published anything that is a lie then sue them. Yes, it might be heavily weighted to reporting things that make reds look bad but have they published lies? I think not.

[lapamita]

i agree 100% with the eitor from nationmultimedia.

democraty , i think many dont know what it means here

i was never aginst red, but as said always they need to forget the name taxsin, and bring new non militant leaders, just a young student or others as new candidates,,and exceppt the offer of new elections before,

but they denied.

luting,burning is not the way to democraty,, first they have to understand what it mean

taxsin was sure not a democrat.

abisit making a good job ,in case of econommics, laws past for free education, min. incommings for farmers and and

now the core leaders of the reds show their real face,,,,,,,,training the dogs,,let them go, and than surrender.....and the old broken man names taxsin ......goes shopping for the good of the luxurymakers

and here ZEN is burning and whatever,,,,,this is public property ( Central plc BMT plc CPn plc Dm plc MAjor plc....owned not only by the rich )

just think in amerika or europe we burning down all the assets of the rich,,,,whats left than......no democraty only anaarchi

[JackSterling]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I agree.. This is a very DUMB BRAIN DEAD editoral... a bunch of words that seem to be a part of any English or American dictionary..but when constructed the way we read it.. The Brits say <deleted> and we Americans say BULLSHIT!

Micky and Donald were nowhere to be found for their comments..

[animatic]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Red shirt leaders knew by staying on the stage a bit longer they would have dangered their "own" lives. So, better off with the "red" friendly police and even though, they tried to pain a picture of self sacrifice. Now, the monster they created is out of control and they are there on the streets. I am more worried about those militants plus the useless Thai police. They both killed the feeling of safety and security in BKK.

We -the Thais and Foreign expats -whoever living under jurisdiction of Lumpini Police station-- we should all unite and made an official complaint against the Chief of Lumpini Police station-at the Lumpini Police station and to the CRES for not doing their job to stop arsoning-looting-in our area -

Klongtoei intersection- where militias covered CCTV with plastic -put tyres and parked cars illegally and make tents in the middle fo the orad since 15th May--which is under Lumpini Police station- went there everyday just to see if any representative of Law enforcement are there- till 19th may-Not a single one--

After the surrender -red militias burned tryes infront of Sheraton sukhumvit - no one from govt agencies tried to put off the fire -

We -residents of Sukhumvit-feels so unsecured ever- whose duty to protect us and our lives ?

Soi 12 intersection is always the hub of red shirts posing as motorcycle taxis- anyone care ???

I suspect there will be a rough house cleaning of police leadership coming up.

The police hate Abhisit for starting this process and no doubts do nothing

partly in hopse of removing him, and some police to support reds.

[JackSterling]

i agree 100% with the eitor from nationmultimedia.

democraty , i think many dont know what it means here

i was never aginst red, but as said always they need to forget the name taxsin, and bring new non militant leaders, just a young student or others as new candidates,,and exceppt the offer of new elections before,

but they denied.

luting,burning is not the way to democraty,, first they have to understand what it mean

taxsin was sure not a democrat.

abisit making a good job ,in case of econommics, laws past for free education, min. incommings for farmers and and

now the core leaders of the reds show their real face,,,,,,,,training the dogs,,let them go, and than surrender.....and the old broken man names taxsin ......goes shopping for the good of the luxurymakers

and here ZEN is burning and whatever,,,,,this is public property ( Central plc BMT plc CPn plc Dm plc MAjor plc....owned not only by the rich )

just think in amerika or europe we burning down all the assets of the rich,,,,whats left than......no democraty only anaarchi

Over 20 misspelled words... ?? BRAIN DEAD is getting "catchy" here..

[verygoodgirl]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Why is TV allowing such blatant and obviously paid criminals express any further support of these red group criminals on this web site?

Are you out of your mind?

The editorial was very well written and exactly on the mark!

Thanks for sharing it with us!

Please help get the scum toxic support off this web site.

It’s very disturbing

[mkdnnlly5632]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I actually agree with the editorial. The Red Shirts as a whole are uneducated and probably decent people and their leaders used those two traits to turn them into servants to their pathetic cause of bringing Thaksin back (or whatever else is NOT in the best interest of the majority of Thai people). There is NO difference in what the red shirt leaders did to get their followers to become violent as what Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and the rest of the right-wing loony political leaders do in America to get the mostly uneducated Americans to cause havoc.

[animatic]

I quote from the article:"let's imagine if this was Paris, London or New York, the reds doing what they have done, they wouldn't have lasted for more than a week."

The author doesn't realise that this is precisely what happened in Paris a couple or so years ago when tens of thousands rioted with arson, looting and death and injuries but the police were able to contain it within a week. Because they wanted to and did what their Government instructed them as opposed to in Bangkok. The author has to decide whether he's going to depict this in terms of a 1st world democracy or the real facts of the Thai society. I think the author is part of the establishment and by his slant he refuses to acknowledge the injustices of his country. When a society is in turmoil and findemental change is needed the kind of acts by the reds are commonplace. Look at history and revolutions elsewhere. There's a saying that you got to crack eggs to make an omlette.

heyyyy

Why Mr T will worry? He already said he has nothing to do with UDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But he phoned in - with video links -talking to UDD protesters- " fight -fight _fight !!!!!!!!!

what a liar -- bustard !

And once he commented - "UN is not my father "

Now he asks UN to intervene--

Haha when did the the UN f__k Mr T's Mom ???

what a leader -- a rat ! a coward - an opportunist who came through Khun Chamlong's hand into the picture !

leader escapes with money and family and shops around and his followeres takes bullets for him --

Now he hires human rights lawyer!!!

Shame for all Americans - sides with the one who violated all the rules of human rights- innocent killing s of more tha 2500-then Takbai--then dissapearing and killing of human rights lawyer Khun Somchai!

Mr A-----dam, born somewhere -named after another ciity- and then work as a whore for a montegran mafia

I believe Amsterdam is Canadian...

And most Americans, who are properly informed,

never supported Thaksin after 2008.

There was limited support after the coup from the partially informed,

But any that really saw the picture were disgusted with his act.

Some of course lost in their ideologies supported the reds

in spite of evidense of their cultishness.

[animatic]

We -the Thais and Foreign expats -whoever living under jurisdiction of Lumpini Police station-- we should all unite and made an official complaint against the Chief of Lumpini Police station-at the Lumpini Police station and to the CRES for not doing their job to stop arsoning-looting-in our area -

Klongtoei intersection- where militias covered CCTV with plastic -put tyres and parked cars illegally and make tents in the middle fo the orad since 15th May--which is under Lumpini Police station- went there everyday just to see if any representative of Law enforcement are there- till 19th may-Not a single one--

After the surrender -red militias burned tryes infront of Sheraton sukhumvit - no one from govt agencies tried to put off the fire -

We -residents of Sukhumvit-feels so unsecured ever- whose duty to protect us and our lives ?

Soi 12 intersection is always the hub of red shirts posing as motorcycle taxis- anyone care ???

Burning tires - perhaps they had bigger worries?

Much much bigger worries...

[FunkyGuru]

...

All I see is everyone complaining about how it's all f_ucked up and unfair for their side, but the only person I see trying to do anything about it is Abhisit.

I agree with that last line of yours dtarasin. No matter what people may say or believe in, I see Abhisit, sincerely trying to do something. Unfortunately with not much of a compatible team to support him. More or less like one man army.

In summary, my 2 satang worth opinion:

• Red leaders did prove to be only 'politicians' not leaders in true sense
  
• Thanksin had the audacity to say this on International media 'I am not a leader of red shirt'. I see that is 100% betrayal. Or even more stab in the back.
  
• Who lost? Thailand.
  
• People died, for what? Not for democracy for heaves sake.
  
• I never saw or ever felt the that entire circus was enacted for democracy sake since they began. It was always about Thaksin and his interest.
  
• I really feel sorry for folks from Isaan and other parts who supported this movement, 'believing' in something. I don't what they were thinking.
  

In the end, this has caused a deep wound that will keep surfacing in one or the other form over coming years. May take a few generations to heal it and unite them as one nation. Difficult but possible.

Oh, and the editorial, surprisingly was readable, given the fact that it comes from The Nation. Very clear points. I must appreciate that.

Just my humble view.

[animatic]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I actually agree with the editorial. The Red Shirts as a whole are uneducated and probably decent people and their leaders used those two traits to turn them into servants to their pathetic cause of bringing Thaksin back (or whatever else is NOT in the best interest of the majority of Thai people). There is NO difference in what the red shirt leaders did to get their followers to become violent as what Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and the rest of the right-wing loony political leaders do in America to get the mostly uneducated Americans to cause havoc.

Agreed.

I hate those demagogues.

Free speech must couple with understanding of it's responsabilities.

[animatic]

I have grudging respect for Jatuporn and Nattawut - the only two leaders who did not run away, and stayed with their followers til the end.

The reason why Nattawut and Jatuporn surrendered only because Nattawut will use his MP status to get bail out soon when the parliament opens in a few days. As for Jatuporn, not sure why, probably he's the only one who braves enough. The rest of the leaders are not MP, so they flee before the police came.

Jatuporn is the MP, Nutawat is the one giving orders to torh the city.

I suspect one meeting of parliament and Jatuporn will no longer have his vaunted immunity.

They can vote him out for several reasons.

[FM505]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Agreed.... and not worth losing intelligence over a response...

[monkeybkk]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

majority rules and wins? majority does not mean they are correct! and Isan folks are not so ill-educated as you seem to think ... please to not speak for others ... and do not underestimate people ... btw, there was absolutely no reason for the military to use real ammunition! riot gear, tear gas would have been enough!!!

[Jirapa]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Comparing Jim Jones to the redshirt leaders and the recent protest to the "jonestown massacre" is rediculous. The protest involved 2 opposing sides in urban conflict whereas the jonestown massacre was orchestrated by Jim "the Junkie" Jones who was personally responsible for the 930+ deaths 2 thirds of which were women and Children.

Why not just compare the redshirt leadership to Charles Manson? Much as you dislike the red leadership I'm sure they're not on Acid nor Heroine and are fighting for their right to representation not some spaced out dream of a communist hippy utopia.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Jirapa

[nickupton]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

Of course it is. Thai media - all of it - is pliable and is not a vehicle for free speech. Thailand's media was described in October last year as "restrained" by the Press Freedom Index. In this index - regarded as the most accurate of its kind - Thailand is number 130, behind far behind countries such as Cambodia, Nepal and Angola. I am so sad that most of the farangs writing in Thai Visa demonstrate the same right-wing tendencies that the country's media does. Perhaps most of them are stupid and cannot think for themselves.

You're not far wrong.Most expat farangs are only concerned that their little piece of Thai Nirvana is being disturbed to the extent that they may have to leave. That's what's motivating their posts and not the plight of the millions of poor people of Thailand. Why , they also don't want the status quo to change just like those who have all the power now.

These anti foreigner sentiments from reds are no surprise to me. Redshirts are fast going down the road of racial/ethnic bigotry and this coupled with their desire to silence criticism by violence reveals their evil intentions.

For the record I am a farang who certainly hasn't found any nirvana in Thailand, just a family and trying to get on with life without living in fear of being attacked or burned out of my house by lunatics because I disagree with them.

Perhaps most redshirts and their supporters are stupid and cannot think for themselves? Perhaps it is all of them and not most?

[ferd54]

What was burned undoubtedly proves the notion that this was pre-planned. Of all the banks that were burned, the overwhelming majority were Bangkok Banks. <snip>

A couple of brief histories:

Chin Sophonpanich was the founder of Bangkok Bank.

Born to a Chinese immigrant father and a Thai mother in Thonburi (Chinatown), Chin's daughter-in-law, the Khunying Kalaya Sophonpanich, wife of Chote Sophonpanich, is currently serving as the Thai Democrat Party's Minister of Science and Technology.

Tiang Chirathivat was the founder of Central Group.

In 1927 22-year-old Tiang traversed the sea from Hainan in Mainland China to settle down in Siam. He married Khun Whan and had the first child. The family business began as a tiny retail outlet in Thonburi (Chinatown). The store moved to Charoen Krung Road, at the corner of Captain Bush Lane in Bangkok's Si Phraya district. The single unit shophouse sold a large variety of local and international newspapers and magazines and carried the name "Central Trading Store, the first chapter of Central Department Stores history.

[intothefuture]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Wrong..... Red Shirts = lost the last election = sore losers.

In 2007, free and open election....red shirts (Puea Thai) only got 36% vote. But they still formed a coaltion govt with other parties. After their first two choices for PM were removed on technicalities...they still controlled the govt thru their coaltion. BUT....Newin/Bhumjai withdrew from the coaltion..legally, per democratic process...and formed a new coalition with Democrats and other parties....who had the MAJORITY of duly elected MPs. The government of Abhisit is the duly elected government. Any attempt to deny this is anti democratic. Period.

Red Shirts - Puea Thai... will not get more than 20% of the vote next time. The country is sick of their violence and anti democratic bully tactics...incited by the most corrupt PM in Thai history....megalomanica Thaksin...the butcher of Tak Bai.

[SomTumTiger]

What was burned undoubtedly proves the notion that this was pre-planned. Of all the banks that were burned, the overwhelming majority were Bangkok Banks. <snip>

A couple of brief histories:

Chin Sophonpanich was the founder of Bangkok Bank.

Born to a Chinese immigrant father and a Thai mother in Thonburi (Chinatown), Chin's daughter-in-law, the Khunying Kalaya Sophonpanich, wife of Chote Sophonpanich, is currently serving as the Thai Democrat Party's Minister of Science and Technology.

Tiang Chirathivat was the founder of Central Group.

In 1927 22-year-old Tiang traversed the sea from Hainan in Mainland China to settle down in Siam. He married Khun Whan and had the first child. The family business began as a tiny retail outlet in Thonburi (Chinatown). The store moved to Charoen Krung Road, at the corner of Captain Bush Lane in Bangkok's Si Phraya district. The single unit shophouse sold a large variety of local and international newspapers and magazines and carried the name "Central Trading Store, the first chapter of Central Department Stores history.

Immigrant bashing - congrats you are now a US Republican!

[Jirapa]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Wrong..... Red Shirts = lost the last election = sore losers.

In 2007, free and open election....red shirts (Puea Thai) only got 36% vote. But they still formed a coaltion govt with other parties. After their first two choices for PM were removed on technicalities...they still controlled the govt thru their coaltion. BUT....Newin/Bhumjai withdrew from the coaltion..legally, per democratic process...and formed a new coalition with Democrats and other parties....who had the MAJORITY of duly elected MPs. The government of Abhisit is the duly elected government. Any attempt to deny this is anti democratic. Period.

Red Shirts - Puea Thai... will not get more than 20% of the vote next time. The country is sick of their violence and anti democratic bully tactics...incited by the most corrupt PM in Thai history....megalomanica Thaksin...the butcher of Tak Bai.

What like appearing on a cookery show is unconstitutional? Maybe a polititian giving flowers to burns victims in hospitals should be made unconstitutional too as that sort of good will gesture gets broadcast and is also PR.

We'll see! That was a farce not an election and most western media confront it's legitemacy. Don't know if you saw Abhisit on Hardtalk?

Edited May 20, 2010 by Jirapa

[yesdavy]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

With no intention of taking sides or being argumentative, and wanting only to know the facts, who is us? It is an interesting statement you have made about the reds being a minority. Have they not won most of the elections in recent history? Was not the last time the Ab party won in 1992?

[eddie61]

Editorial is pretty accurate, and the cowardice of the Red Leaders in the face of real adversity is quite telling. I have grudging respect for Jatuporn and Nattawut - the only two leaders who did not run away, and stayed with their followers til the end.

Thaksin? Flew his family out at the first sign of trouble, with bundles of cash. Never coming back? One can only hope.

I think among all this there is one positive thought. I don't think Thaksin will ever step foot on Thai soil again.

He overplayed his card, and he probably knows it.

Just another thought: would a Canadian PR/Law firm aiding and abetting a terrorist be guilty of any crimes in the US?

[Netfan]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Comparing Jim Jones to the redshirt leaders and the recent protest to the "jonestown massacre" is rediculous. The protest involved 2 opposing sides in urban conflict whereas the jonestown massacre was orchestrated by Jim "the Junkie" Jones who was personally responsible for the 930+ deaths 2 thirds of which were women and Children.

Why not just compare the redshirt leadership to Charles Manson? Much as you dislike the red leadership I'm sure they're not on Acid nor Heroine and are fighting for their right to representation not some spaced out dream of a communist hippy utopia.

Actually that is not a bad comparison. Thaksin has set himself up as a messiah- Manson compared himself to Jesus. Manson was a very cool, calculated manipulator, who took dissatisfied, directionless people and slowly got them to do things closer and closer to the edge, which ended up with them going out to do the murders, while he stayed at home. Kind of like Thaksin, And Arisman beginning with the "bring your bottles" speech, ending with Nutawut's "burn the country, i will be responsible" speech. Of course neither of them actually picked up a molotov cocktail, so they can try to say they are innocent, just like Manson saying he never picked up a knife. And the red leaders weren't on alcohol or drugs, but you can bet that a good number of the looters and arsonists were, supplied by guess who? Just like Manson giving out drugs to his family. Never thought of it this way before, but thanks for the lead in!

[AsiaCheese]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Do you read lines, or between them?!? Where does it say something like that?

IMHO, there's quite some straight-forward brains in that editorial!

[nickupton]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Wrong..... Red Shirts = lost the last election = sore losers.

In 2007, free and open election....red shirts (Puea Thai) only got 36% vote. But they still formed a coaltion govt with other parties. After their first two choices for PM were removed on technicalities...they still controlled the govt thru their coaltion. BUT....Newin/Bhumjai withdrew from the coaltion..legally, per democratic process...and formed a new coalition with Democrats and other parties....who had the MAJORITY of duly elected MPs. The government of Abhisit is the duly elected government. Any attempt to deny this is anti democratic. Period.

Red Shirts - Puea Thai... will not get more than 20% of the vote next time. The country is sick of their violence and anti democratic bully tactics...incited by the most corrupt PM in Thai history....megalomanica Thaksin...the butcher of Tak Bai.

Finally. some "Truth Today".

Reds are NOT the majority, the majority are the people not shooting at firefighters, looting and setting fire to buildings.

The reds did not win the election.

The government represents the majority of voters.

Reds are NOT peaceful, the leaders were booed when they told the crowd they should surrender, they didn't want a peaceful solution.

The reds are not democratic and refuse to accept that politicians in PPP should be punished for electoral fraud.

Reds are currently justifying an organised campaign of violence, arson and terror (if widespread arson and blocking/shooting firefighters isn't terryfying I am not sure what is). If they are not terrorists they are so very very close to it that many people will not see the difference.

Gearge Bush 1st said at the time of the LA riots, "urgent need to restore order", and he warned that the "brutality of a mob" would not be tolerated, and he would "use whatever force is necessary". I think that these sentiments apply here and now.

[ferd54]

What was burned undoubtedly proves the notion that this was pre-planned. Of all the banks that were burned, the overwhelming majority were Bangkok Banks. <snip>

A couple of brief histories:

Chin Sophonpanich was the founder of Bangkok Bank.

Born to a Chinese immigrant father and a Thai mother in Thonburi (Chinatown), Chin's daughter-in-law, the Khunying Kalaya Sophonpanich, wife of Chote Sophonpanich, is currently serving as the Thai Democrat Party's Minister of Science and Technology.

Tiang Chirathivat was the founder of Central Group.

In 1927 22-year-old Tiang traversed the sea from Hainan in Mainland China to settle down in Siam. He married Khun Whan and had the first child. The family business began as a tiny retail outlet in Thonburi (Chinatown). The store moved to Charoen Krung Road, at the corner of Captain Bush Lane in Bangkok's Si Phraya district. The single unit shophouse sold a large variety of local and international newspapers and magazines and carried the name "Central Trading Store, the first chapter of Central Department Stores history.

Immigrant bashing - congrats you are now a US Republican!

I am only stating facts. Interesting that these immigrants were able to quickly acquire Thai citizenship. As later generations became gentrified and moved into the highest echelons of money/power, Thailand continued have laws banning foreign ownership of land and businesses. Nice trick. Talk about immigrant bashing -- I couldn't even become one if I wanted.

[lookpapa]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

Of course it is. Thai media - all of it - is pliable and is not a vehicle for free speech. Thailand's media was described in October last year as "restrained" by the Press Freedom Index. In this index - regarded as the most accurate of its kind - Thailand is number 130, behind far behind countries such as Cambodia, Nepal and Angola. I am so sad that most of the farangs writing in Thai Visa demonstrate the same right-wing tendencies that the country's media does. Perhaps most of them are stupid and cannot think for themselves.

You're not far wrong.Most expat farangs are only concerned that their little piece of Thai Nirvana is being disturbed to the extent that they may have to leave. That's what's motivating their posts and not the plight of the millions of poor people of Thailand. Why , they also don't want the status quo to change just like those who have all the power now.

These anti foreigner sentiments from reds are no surprise to me. Redshirts are fast going down the road of racial/ethnic bigotry and this coupled with their desire to silence criticism by violence reveals their evil intentions.

For the record I am a farang who certainly hasn't found any nirvana in Thailand, just a family and trying to get on with life without living in fear of being attacked or burned out of my house by lunatics because I disagree with them.

Perhaps most redshirts and their supporters are stupid and cannot think for themselves? Perhaps it is all of them and not most?

I said most , not per se your kind.How about the sexpats and deviants who come in their hordes to satisfy their desires without a thought of how those who do it for them ended up in their plight. The jetsam and flotsam of second class Thai citizens who never had a choice , no education , no opportunities. Now that their frustrations overboil some farangs here whinge that the Thailand of their dreams or should I say playground is no more. Hey, it's an extreme hardship for some to be housebound by the curfew. Who feels sorry for them? Not me. Let them go home where it's safe and cosy and where they have some rights others in Thailand don't have. At least these farangs have a choice but not the Issaan poor.

[intothefuture]

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Wrong..... Red Shirts = lost the last election = sore losers.

In 2007, free and open election....red shirts (Puea Thai) only got 36% vote. But they still formed a coaltion govt with other parties. After their first two choices for PM were removed on technicalities...they still controlled the govt thru their coaltion. BUT....Newin/Bhumjai withdrew from the coaltion..legally, per democratic process...and formed a new coalition with Democrats and other parties....who had the MAJORITY of duly elected MPs. The government of Abhisit is the duly elected government. Any attempt to deny this is anti democratic. Period.

Red Shirts - Puea Thai... will not get more than 20% of the vote next time. The country is sick of their violence and anti democratic bully tactics...incited by the most corrupt PM in Thai history....megalomanica Thaksin...the butcher of Tak Bai.

What like appearing on a cookery show is unconstitutional? Maybe a polititian giving flowers to burns victims in hospitals should be made unconstitutional too as that sort of good will gesture gets broadcast and is also PR.

Well see!

Jirapa....Do you really not understand? The removal of Gen Samak (who order the murder of the college student protesters two decades ago) and Thaksin's brother in law Somchai...may or may not have been correct court decisions.... I actually think the cooking show business technicality was lame. But this is not why Thaksin/red shirts/Puea Thai lost power. You, like most red shirts, refuse to accept the Truth. When Newin/Bhumjai party..legally withdrew from the Puea Thai coalition and called his former boss Thaksin to tell him he was finished trying to bolster Thaksin any more.... the Bhumjai part joined the Democrat party and others that held a true majority. They formed the new government with their coalition legally, by due process of law. The Abhisit government is the legally elected government of Thailand. The Puea Thai and Thaksin couldn't win more than 36% two years ago...now their support has plummeted. You like all red shirts refuse to accept that you lost, fair and square...and so now resort to violence, mayhem and destruction of other property. Red Shirts = Thaksin = losers = game over.

[Jirapa]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

In that case by your reckoning the Red Shirts have the next election in the bag.

"majority" = Reds = "Wins".

Like it or not they are the majority and just because you don't see everyone who supports them walking round with red bandanners doesn't mean they're not there.

Comparing Jim Jones to the redshirt leaders and the recent protest to the "jonestown massacre" is rediculous. The protest involved 2 opposing sides in urban conflict whereas the jonestown massacre was orchestrated by Jim "the Junkie" Jones who was personally responsible for the 930+ deaths 2 thirds of which were women and Children.

Why not just compare the redshirt leadership to Charles Manson? Much as you dislike the red leadership I'm sure they're not on Acid nor Heroine and are fighting for their right to representation not some spaced out dream of a communist hippy utopia.

Actually that is not a bad comparison. Thaksin has set himself up as a messiah- Manson compared himself to Jesus. Manson was a very cool, calculated manipulator, who took dissatisfied, directionless people and slowly got them to do things closer and closer to the edge, which ended up with them going out to do the murders, while he stayed at home. Kind of like Thaksin, And Arisman beginning with the "bring your bottles" speech, ending with Nutawut's "burn the country, i will be responsible" speech. Of course neither of them actually picked up a molotov cocktail, so they can try to say they are innocent, just like Manson saying he never picked up a knife. And the red leaders weren't on alcohol or drugs, but you can bet that a good number of the looters and arsonists were, supplied by guess who? Just like Manson giving out drugs to his family. Never thought of it this way before, but thanks for the lead in!

So I take it you'd rather Charles Manson babysat your kids rather than Taksin?

[Anyse]

Editorial is pretty accurate, and the cowardice of the Red Leaders in the face of real adversity is quite telling. I have grudging respect for Jatuporn and Nattawut - the only two leaders who did not run away, and stayed with their followers til the end.

Thaksin? Flew his family out at the first sign of trouble, with bundles of cash. Never coming back? One can only hope.

Whoa! Just minute there! Four leaders knew that the reality is that the government troops would come in, break down all barriers and shoot those who resisted on sight! So, they told them, even begged them (using the word "beg" numerous times) to please go home and that this would continue at another time. This was NOT cowardice at all. This was REALLY the TRUE HEART of this movement. Afterward, they surrendered directly to the authorities to be tried for treason. This is NOT that act of any coward. These are truly brave and honorable men. However, this crowd had been there for at least 2 months now. Their hearts were set. Most were, I am certain, more radicalized members of the prior 100,000 who were there at the height of the protests. Some people can not be reasoned with. Some people can not give up on something that they want NOW! These are the definite minority of the 100,000 and, for this, Thailand should be most grateful! I admire those four men. I would hope to know them and to talk with them and to learn from them. People so set in their own ideas about the Red Shirts, in general, are deluded and have no right to call these four men people who betrayed the cause, who betrayed the protest itself. They were selfless in thier actions and their call to those before them as they just did not want to see what many believed would be a great shedding of the people's blood that day. Please, give credit where it is due and dam_n those who deserve that as well. The "Red Shirts" did not burn the Stock Exchange or the large, most luxurious, shopping mall in all of Thailand. How many do you really "know" or, in your heart of hearts "feel." burned those places as they did? 5, 10, 100, 5000? Reasonably, it was very, very few. It could have been as few as 1, 2, 3, or so. Right now, you just don't know. However, it still was not the "Red Shirts" themselves, in all of the things that they sought through this series of protests, who did this. There are "good" as well as "bad" people in every bunch and, among the Red Shirts this is no exception. Later, I am sure, we will learn about these people as I am sure that there will be pictures or film of them that will surface. They will not be people who really had the "Red Shirts'" interests at heart.