Order Restored In Bangkok And Provinces: PM Abhisit

[nontabury]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

You must know many of the THAI elite, or maybe they are very polite and do not want to be confrontational with you

[ratcatcher]

As my girlfriend says, it never change for me and my family no matter who is in charge

Moe, now you are in charge.

[longtom]

We all know that Abhisit wasn't calling the shots anyway in the last days, would be a shame if he gets tainted and 'unelectable' by this unrest. There is just no alternative candidate around with enough brain and a halfways clean vest who could lead the country out of this minefield.

And the military (and police) must be stripped of some power and money, or no government can ever start a meaningful reform process. Now if somebody could bring a few million people peacfully on the street for a worthy cause for once ...

[cyb]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

You must know many of the THAI elite, or maybe they are very polite and do not want to be confrontational with you

Fool nontabury

[beau51]

I've been reading the tweets on taksinlive, and they are not pro taksin by any means. many are calling for his death and calling him a white shark. doesn't look good for him now. oh well...

Thaksin's people (because that's what they are) burned down the show-piece shopping mall of Samrit Chirathivat and damaged his Big C opposite. They also looted and burned 7/11s and other Charoen Pokphand CP Group's holdings. The arsonists particularly targeted Chartsiri Sophonpanich's Bangkok Bank. These are extremely powerful men who make Thaksin look like a 2-bit punk. Being Thai-Chinese himself, I'm sure he knows the wrath he now faces from these and other Thai-Chinese interests damaged and destroyed in the mayhem.

With few places in the civilized world left to hide, Thaksin's days are numbered. I hope he has a warm greeting for Seh Daeng when he meets him in hel_l.

[EarthAlien]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

Every Thai I know hate this man. He can not do anything, becouse he is a marionette of persons, who order to kill Thai protesters.

hmmm,..wait a minute,... wasn't it the red shirt armed insurgents (murderers of both Thai and Foreigner) that were the marionettes of puppet master Thaksin? If I wasn't intelligent this would be very confusing!

If the order to use lethal force had not been used then we'd all be under the influence of civil strife and urban and armed militia's creating havoc and killing, plundering and terrorising at will because such is the nature of these rebellious factions.

Unfortunate that Thai lives were lost and that Thai soldiers had to be involved in this mess,.. but it had to be done.

If every Thai you know hates this man then we should be able to guess the color of your shirt right?

Why focus on hatred and disharmony when this man evidently means well and although may not be the perfect solution he is at least committed to an harmonious and workable recovery for the benefit of all Thais and for Thailand,..unlike that murderous Khun_T that only cares about himself and polishing his ego and bank balance with the spilt blood of his fellow countrymen.

I say kudos to Abhisit,.. he has surprised me with his resilience and he has my vote (moral,...and family... my Issan wife will be voting for him come next election!)

[cyb]

"Order restored"

Tell that to the thousands (2000?) of people who lost their jobs

Order restored and making good after order restored are two different things.

Did you think (ie get your brain into gear) before you posted drivel?

[yoshiwara]

There's an underlying smugness to quite a few posts in this thread. Something along the lines "Yer, those Reds got their arse kicked good".

I guess when your only got slingshots and Molotov cocktails eventually you do get your arse kicked when the other side has lots of guns, grenades, snipers and APC's!

But it ain't over! There is no sea change for millions of Thai's that want a better life for themselves and their families. The PM may talk of change, but words don't make for a better life for the average man on the street.

There has to be new clear programs to promote social justice, fairness in the workplace and some sort of safety net for people to fall back on in times of trouble.

Unlike the present system of limited services (should that be almost non-existent?) to the community and a basic meal at the Wot for the needy, a new system needs to be seen to be working in a fair and honest fashion.

Otherwise, the problems will fester under the surface only to blow up again in possibly worse ways.

Still pushing the unarmed gig?

Any more suggestions apart from burning down more buildings?

No?

I didn't think so Mr Fester.

[snaggletooth]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

Why doesn't that surprise me? Being a member of PAD I should imagine you are quite cut off from the rest of the world.

Every decent Thai I know thinks he is the leader of the most evil government Thailand has known for decades.

Don't think the rest of the world doesn't know what went on in Thailand in the last few days. All the manipulation of the Thai press and the take over of Thai Visa Forums will not suppress the truth indefinitely.

The people of Thailand will learn the truth over time.

However, I too hope for reconciliation and unity, but that won't come through people like you.

Government officials in many Western countries have been interviewed since the Reds commenced trying to burn Bangkok to the ground and not one blames the present government. When the U.S. Ambassador to Thailand was asked if he thought Thaksin Shinawatra was behind the Red Shirts. He answered, "Yes I do. 200%. All the pro-Red Shirt bias, half-truths & lies put out by CNN & the BBC were corrected by their reporters toward the end of these riots, admitting for the first time that the Red Shirts were armed and in fact firing live ammunition, possessing Ak47S, M74 grenades & launchers, all supplied by Seh Daeng, stolen from the Thai Army. As the Reds arrested begin to squeal like pigs on who their financiers are in order to get lighter prison sentences, the whole world will know the whole story. As the huge stockpile of weapons that were recovered from the Red camp are shown to the whole work all will know they were terrorists working for Thaksin. You Red sympathisers will soon find that all that believe what you say are a buncy of brainwashed, uneducated peasants who will never be anything in their lives but followers, for sale the highest bidder, people like Thaksin.

EXCUSE ME. WHere does Eric John's quote end? Did he really say "a buncy of brainwashed..."

I don't think he's that diplomatic. If you're going to include a quote, it's good to close the quote.

[balfour]

The Reds had a point: Thailand is a very unequal society, with a handful of key families controlling so much of its commercial life - & pocketing the proceeds.

Of course they were used by the odious Thaksin - who must never be allowed to influence Thai polity again.

And they contained their fair share of violent nutters.

But their key point remains valid: Thailand is precipitously unequal.

Unless that is rectified, the Reds will rise again.

That might be the end of the present elite, even the end of civil peace.

Better to make a deal now, to bring about fairness.

I wouldn't waste too much time on this forum, it has been taken over by the PAD:-(

So who do you think should be running the country??

[beau51]

As my girlfriend says, it never change for me and my family no matter who is in charge

The reason for that is, The masses cannot see a good thing if it jumped up and hit them in the face.

That's because they'd rather sit under their houses playing cards, eating somtam and drinking Lao Khao, while whinging about their lives and hoping for their saviour to come back with more 'free' handouts they can use for down-payments on new pickups, that they'll then not be able to pay for. G-d forbid they follow the example of the Thai farmer of the year (featured last week in the BP) educate themselves on better farming methods, stop using massive amount of chemicals, practice sufficiency economy and make their farms self-sustaining. That would be too much like hard work.

[wsmoh]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

Every Thai I know hate this man. He can not do anything, becouse he is a marionette of persons, who order to kill Thai protesters.

To the ones who are attacking the PM and defending the reds and (claiming to defend) the poor let me ask few questions. Where did you buy your last ice-coffee? what car do you drive? when was the last time that you open your wallet for a poor? Did you pay a trip to Isaan and thought how to improve those people's life? Did you lose a shop and your main source of income in the last fire? Did you lose a beloved b the reds? did you go set and fight with them?

Hypothetically, if you are in the US and you broke a traffic light. The police asks you to stop, as red as you are, you decided to break the law and did not stop. The police will chase you (cars, helicopters, etc) and you will be on cops. They catch you, ask you to move your hands up, you did not. Instead you put your hands in your pocket. What do you think their next move would be????? The PM was far too soft on those violent protesters and he managed to separate the peaceful ones from the thugs.

I do not want to hear your answers. Just look at the man in the mirror.. and answer..

[snaggletooth]

We all know that Abhisit wasn't calling the shots anyway in the last days, would be a shame if he gets tainted and 'unelectable' by this unrest. There is just no alternative candidate around with enough brain and a halfways clean vest who could lead the country out of this minefield.

And the military (and police) must be stripped of some power and money, or no government can ever start a meaningful reform process. Now if somebody could bring a few million people peacfully on the street for a worthy cause for once ...

The entire police force should be fired on the spot. They should be replaced with thoroughly vetted new hires who have college degrees and swear an oath to not be corrupt. They should be paid a good living wage and know that if they take bribes they shall be fired. Fines for all offenses should be increased at once so as to force the Thai people to start abiding by the laws of the land.

The cops were on the side of the reds the entire time. All of them who allowed the reds to set up their stage in the middle of the road should be fired and that goes all the way to the top. If the cops had been doing their jobs, this never would have happened.

[cyb]

As my girlfriend says, it never change for me and my family no matter who is in charge

The reason for that is, The masses cannot see a good thing if it jumped up and hit them in the face.

That's because they'd rather sit under their houses playing cards, eating somtam and drinking Lao Khao, while whinging about their lives and hoping for their saviour to come back with more 'free' handouts they can use for down-payments on new pickups, that they'll then not be able to pay for. G-d forbid they follow the example of the Thai farmer of the year (featured last week in the BP) educate themselves on better farming methods, stop using massive amount of chemicals, practice sufficiency economy and make their farms self-sustaining. That would be too much like hard work.

Thats where education comes in which has being sadly lacking in the north, The PM given the chance will restore that balance that I am sure of, If he is given the chance.

[snaggletooth]

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

You must know many of the THAI elite, or maybe they are very polite and do not want to be confrontational with you

Fool nontabury

Mayby your in dreamland nontabury. There are plenty of non-elite, working class Thais that support Abhisit. If only the elite supported him and his party, they wouldn't have gotten a single vote in the last parliamentary elections. And remember, the Dems don't buy votes, like the former THai Rak Thai and all the later incarnations of it.

His party won a certain number of seats in Parliament, formed a coalition with other parties and they chose him as the PM.

You exemplify the narrowmindedness of the red shirts in your comment. And if any of the Reds had been paying attention this last year, they would have seen that Abhisit was doing more for them than any other recent government. The majority of the funds in this year's economic stimulus package were for the grassroots people, poor farmers and infrastructure in the provinces. And before all this mayhem started, Abhisit announced a major new project to increase funding and renovate and upgrade rural schools.

The reds always yammer on about how much better their lives were under Thaksin, but if you ask them how, they only thing they say is that they made more money because rice prices were higher...

Rice prices are set internationally and not by Thaksin. They enjoyed some good times too because the world economy was growing and a monkey could have been running Thailand at the time and it would have prospered.

[nontabury]

I stand by my original comment when this all started weeks ago.... You can go on forever about the details but in the end it's just two groups of corrupt self serving leaders trying to wrestle the money and power away from each other, neither are working for the good of the masses. Pretty much the same deal in every country, always has been and probably always will be.

AGREE

[missy1827]

Thank you Mr. Abhisit

[Hoser]

85% of Thais you've spoken to? Wow - that's a lot! I mean, only 43.2% of Thais I've spoken to watch American Idol regularly. So that must mean there are wayyyy more disenfranchised Thais who hope for a "regime" change than there are American Idol fans. That's crazy!

Wait, there's another 82.7% of Thais (I know because I ...um...like actually took a real poll like and...um...counted and shit - which is how I arrived at such a specific percentage) that actually believe that what some people call swastikas are actually Buddhist symbols! So that means there are more nazis in Thailand than there are red shirts.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Hoser

[lannarebirth]

Many people in the north have seen the truth and are no longer brainwashed

I would agree that it is a good thing if those in the North/NE who were "brainwashed" see the light, and I include those who indulged in the cult of personality that centred on Mr T. But, if we are seeking honest analysis, how are events really going to look from the standpoint of the rural people?

For a rank-and-file protester who spent most of his/her time in front of the main redshirt stage (and who moved between the two main sites), I'd imagine it goes something like this. In the beginning the protest resembles a carnival. There is a moment when they seem to be winning. Then Seh Deng is shot (they believe by the army, even if this is not true) and this changes everything. They hear that the push is coming and sure enough the shooting starts in the distance. They see photographs of the wounded on camp notice boards, and hear both their leaders' accounts and the Government warnings. The shooting gets closer. Perhaps they retreat to Wat Patham and endure what, from some accounts at least, is a terrifying few hours when they are not sure if they will live. As they make their way to the police buses, they see the smoke and are told of the arson and destruction.

For those watching from afar in the NE, there will have been both the TV reports and what they hear on the grapevine. They will know that Thai TV is not telling the whole story and may be sceptical. A few will have access to other satellite channels with disturbing coverage, which many on this board say is biased towards the red side. Later they hear that the bodies and the wounded are coming home. The realisation of the extent of the destruction starts to sink in, and they also hear the condemnation, though not much about the deaths that they know happened. What will be their overall judgement?

Do these people see a single truth clearly? Speaking for my own Isaan wife, currently in the UK, there has been a change of view She says she hates Thaksin and that the protesters were stupid, because the army will always use force on the people of Isaan so that they never had a chance. But she hates Abhisit too because she believes he ordered Thais to kill Thais, and most of the dead are on one side. The nation is still going to be deeply polarised and it is wishful thinking to believe that rural people will see things the same way as expats. I do believe this is another nail in Thaksin's coffin, but my view is that his influence had been waning for a while. I shall be watching with interest for evidence of the extent of his financial backing.

Maybe you can help me, this is a sincere inquiry. Why do many people believe if there is a greater number of deaths, more widely distributed amongst both sides in a conflict, that the outcome is more "valid". Logically, I just don't get that.

[SanSaiExPat]

A leader who brings a country through a bloody crisis is going to make significant gains in popularity. Abhisit is in charge. Thaksin will be fighting terrorism charges ...

Did you see in another thread that Thaksin is denying any involvement in the latest events

So whose money was paid to the Red Protesters ?

Who's money paid for the yellow? Why is it so hard to accept that Thai's have a sincere desire for a true republic, economic and educational opportunity and freedom which they don't have under the current junta.

[jcbangkok]

Abhisit should make available a long list of possible hand-outs and financial opportunities for the people in the North East.

Then he should explain how NONE of them will be happening due to the spending needed to rebuilt and cover the costs of the violent red mob. Then he should further show the new plan how to seize all assets of those who participated in the mob AT ANY TIME DURING THE LAST MONTHS to help offset some of the costs. Further he should talk a proposed law to also seize assets of relatives living with anyone who participated in the violent red mob activities.

[jcbangkok]

A leader who brings a country through a bloody crisis is going to make significant gains in popularity. Abhisit is in charge. Thaksin will be fighting terrorism charges ...

Did you see in another thread that Thaksin is denying any involvement in the latest events

So whose money was paid to the Red Protesters ?

Who's money paid for the yellow? Why is it so hard to accept that Thai's have a sincere desire for a true republic, economic and educational opportunity and freedom which they don't have under the current junta.

Thais have a sincere desire to make a buck like the rest of the world but they have less opportunity and this is why they can be easily bought.

[SanSaiExPat]

As my girlfriend says, it never change for me and my family no matter who is in charge

The reason for that is, The masses cannot see a good thing if it jumped up and hit them in the face.

That's because they'd rather sit under their houses playing cards, eating somtam and drinking Lao Khao, while whinging about their lives and hoping for their saviour to come back with more 'free' handouts they can use for down-payments on new pickups, that they'll then not be able to pay for. G-d forbid they follow the example of the Thai farmer of the year (featured last week in the BP) educate themselves on better farming methods, stop using massive amount of chemicals, practice sufficiency economy and make their farms self-sustaining. That would be too much like hard work.

Thats where education comes in which has being sadly lacking in the north, The PM given the chance will restore that balance that I am sure of, If he is given the chance.

What has he been doing since he seized power?

[dogrun]

The Reds had a point: Thailand is a very unequal society, with a handful of key families controlling so much of its commercial life - & pocketing the proceeds.

Of course they were used by the odious Thaksin - who must never be allowed to influence Thai polity again.

And they contained their fair share of violent nutters.

But their key point remains valid: Thailand is precipitously unequal.

Unless that is rectified, the Reds will rise again.

That might be the end of the present elite, even the end of civil peace.

Better to make a deal now, to bring about fairness.

I'm trying to think of a single country where a handful of elite don't rule the country. And I am an American. Please show me a country where there are actual equal rights for all, and I would gladly move there.

North Korea. Everybody has the same nothing.

I agree.

[Democrat]

For true order to be restored!

Its now time for reconciliation. Time for a new start. Thailand does not need a civil war, it does not need underground groups destroying the country further. It needs reconciliation.

Part of that process will be to have discussions with the former PM Thaksin. Face has no part in reconciliation. Like it or not the former PM has a lot of supporters, more than most people will admit.

This Tragedy is Thailand's opportunity to forge ahead with a democracy, unrivalled in S.E.A.

Give the poor an opportunity to live a reasonable life.

Improve the Education system, ensure children go to school and get an education.

Improve the health system.

Ensure the police force is paid a reasonable wage. Ensure they enforce the law on all Law breakers equally.

Stop the carnage on the roads, enforce the law. Less injuries and deaths, more time for the hospitals to help the sick and old people.

Give people their Human Rights and Freedom of Speech. Release all political prisoners. Work with other countries, and work to help the less fortunate from other countries.

Time for the Govt to buy products direct from the farmer for export instead of the middlemen.

Ex armed services and, police do not mix in Politics.

Allow the senate to be voted by the people. Ensure the law's are followed, especially the army protects its country, not shoots it own citizens

There are many good things in Thailand but it's time to change some of the bad.

Love your people, Love your country.

In my opinion Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep you should both resign and elect a new leader. No loss of life should have occurred. You are as responsible as anyone else and, therefore, should resign.

[Fore Man]

Once upon a time there was order in the 1000 year empire. Thats the kind of order Abhisits masters want now. Is that really the life people want to live? Perceived peace - if you behave by rules you have no influence to change?

Hey, worked for Singapore. It has become a benign police state of sorts, and you have to obey the law, but they do live in peace down there. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

[dogrun]

A Thai friend has just come back to Australia with reports of 50 to 100 million baht payments each for the top red shirt leaders.

I'm really trying to determine if all of this violence is being bought by Thaksin, or if this is a true uprising of the people.

Can anyone supply evidence that monies are being paid ?

Can you just see at the beginning when money were handed out to those protesters?

I know for sure that in case of Anupong, who did nothing at the beginning is bought by Mr T, sponsored the education of his two

daughters in England and also bought them a house. Good thing that later on the second in command took charge.

This will come clearer when the info of all the "team" bank accounts activity made public.

[monkfish]

Police fire tear gases, flares to release MPs, Senators held at Parliament 8 October 2008Thai News Service

More than 500 police backed up the firing of smoke flares and lobbing of tear gas at anti-government demonstrators surrounding Thailand's Parliament Tuesday afternoon in a bid to provide an exit for members who were 'held' inside the building by the protesters. Earlier People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) activists had allowed about 300 parliament officials and staff workers, as well as media who were on hand to cover Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat delivering his government's policy statement to parliament, to leave the building, but then the PAD decided that members of parliament and Senators were not allowed to leave the premises.

Police then opted to fire smoke flare and tear gas at the PAD ranks in an attempt to open a pathway to release those who were still inside the building, otherwise unable to leave.

Two Thai policemen were shot and injured.

Prime Minister Somchai left Parliament after delivering the government's policy statement by first climbing over the wall separating Parliament from the adjacent Vimarkmek Palace, where he flew out by helicopter to a meeting with the supreme military commander and the army chief at the Royal Thai Armed Forces headquarters on the outskirts of Bangkok.

After the meeting, Mr. Somchai told a press conference briefly that his government is trying to solve the problem and that the military has a duty to monitor and oversee the problem.

When asked whether he would resign from his post or dissolve the House, Mr. Somchai asserted he would not quit his post, a post he has held for only two weeks.

Opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, however, said after a second round of meetings with his party's executive committee and members that the ongoing tensions the country is experiencing has resulted from the government's decisions in dealing with, and mishandling, the situation.

Mr. Abhisit called for resolving the crisis through parliamentary channels. He affirmed that the Democrat Party "doesn't support a military coup", as it believes it is not a way out for the country.

However, Mr. Somchai must take the responsibility for the huge losses which are being incurred under democratic procedures, either by resigning or by dissolving the House, Mr. Abhisit advised.

[dtarasin]

Thais have a sincere desire to make a buck like the rest of the world but they have less opportunity and this is why they can be easily bought.

Less opportunity to make a buck? Let's compare this "opportunity" with America for example. In Thailand, anyone can set up a noodle stall on the side of the road and make a few hundred bath every day. In America, you'll need to wait at least six months for a permit to set up anything. In Thailand, you can sell stuff on the side of the road, or set up shop in a pretty decent mall with lots of foot traffic for relatively little rent. Show me some place like Platinum in America. In Thailand, you can grow anything you want on your farm and sell in markets without having to fear government agencies beating you down on taxes and misc obscure violations imposed by the FDA.

The fact of the matter is that if any one of these people who you consider have "less opportunities" move to someplace like America, they'd ask for a plane ticket back in a second.

[lannarebirth]

A Thai friend has just come back to Australia with reports of 50 to 100 million baht payments each for the top red shirt leaders.

I'm really trying to determine if all of this violence is being bought by Thaksin, or if this is a true uprising of the people.

Can anyone supply evidence that monies are being paid ?

Can you just see at the beginning when money were handed out to those protesters?

I know for sure that in case of Anupong, who did nothing at the beginning is bought by Mr T, sponsored the education of his two

daughters in England and also bought them a house. Good thing that later on the second in command took charge.

This will come clearer when the info of all the "team" bank accounts activity made public.

I'm not sure if that area of your post I highlighted is true, but I do know many many Thais believe it is true and see it simply as a "given".