Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[bkk75]

"Terrorists have used these weapons to attack officials and innocent people," said Suthep Thaugsuban, deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, at an army barracks on the northern outskirts of the capital.

AFP journalists reporting at the protest zone for the past two months have seen only a handful of firearms in the hands of protesters, who were mostly armed only with crude weapons like rockets and Molotov cocktails.

So who do you believe?

In denial are we. Still think the facist group are peaceful or something. Of course they didnt wlak around with bazookas hanging off their noises especially when spreading a meme to journos (who they later declared a legitmate target for death) but the weapons were there and ready for use and you can see them using them on th enet if you can be bothered to look. Many links been done even here in th past.

I guess the new meme is going to come out of red HQ thast they were totally peaceful and they were set up and everyone killed by them and every arson done by them was only fakes...

But nobody believes that. Even old Pleum had to back away form his suggestions along that line and he is a red

I especially love the Red's banners:

"We are peaceful protestors not terrorists"... quickly someone go cover the weapons cache.

[edwardandtubs]

Only a very gullible fool would believe government propaganda at a time like this. If the red shirts were so well armed, why were so few soldiers killed as they stormed Rajprasong? Why were so many unarmed civilians killed?

[OzMick]

he following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Sorry, "asiatimesonlone.com" does not exist or could not be found

you would think that even the intellectually challenged might pick out the single letter typo causing your problem

[mrsouza]

Just guessing? Or day dreaming? You think this government would miss the chance of showing this huge cache of arms in situ if it existed? You think they wouldn't make the area safe before letting the journos in?

So you make excuses for them - they are either incompetent and missed the chance, or they are so caring for the lives of journalists that they forego the opportunity of showing the world this cache in situ and merely hope their spokesman will be believed.

Are you guys that gullible?

Farangs lapping up the government line. Keep it up - it makes for good reading.

Best part is, judging from posts on other parts of this forum, most people here would not trust a police man or government official with five baht. But lo and behold, now everything is suddenly swallowed at face value, without the slightest sign of critical thinking. Well, at least some past time fun during the curfew.

[PhilHarries]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Weapons of mass destruction?

Is that your own brain or are you running it in for a moron?

[Ga-gai]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Quote

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Unquote

Quote

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

Unquote

This says it all really. Thaksin was basically financing a communist-led revolution. Now we know why the red shirts chose red as their colour.

I think the news coming out now provides overwhelming evidence of a very serious communist plot to overthrow the monarchy and the state as it is today and to turn Thailand into a communist state. Thaksin and his baggage would probably have been dumped.

Given the mounting evidence, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders should deserve the death sentence for their actions. The probable outcome is very likely to be life sentences, given the current government's ideas on capital punishment.

Let the flames from pro-red contributors begin!!! Your responses will be seen for what they are. Given all the evidence to the contrary, they will seem to be defending the indefensible.

Do tell us why you believe a single word of a publication founded by Sondhi Limtongul?

Why should anyone believe what you say then?

[clown]

Holy moly. looks like we have our very own Al-Quaeda. What's next, training camps? Suicide bombers? Truly scary.

Don't forget the drama queens!

[bkk75]

Only a very gullible fool would believe government propaganda at a time like this. If the red shirts were so well armed, why were so few soldiers killed as they stormed Rajprasong? Why were so many unarmed civilians killed?

Only a gullible fool would believe the red's stories.

You do realize a few hundred trained mercenaries against a group of trained military people. May I ask what is your highest mathematical education?

[firestar]

Just guessing? Or day dreaming? You think this government would miss the chance of showing this huge cache of arms in situ if it existed? You think they wouldn't make the area safe before letting the journos in?

So you make excuses for them - they are either incompetent and missed the chance, or they are so caring for the lives of journalists that they forego the opportunity of showing the world this cache in situ and merely hope their spokesman will be believed.

Are you guys that gullible?

Farangs lapping up the government line. Keep it up - it makes for good reading.

Best part is, judging from posts on other parts of this forum, most people here would not trust a police man or government official with five baht. But lo and behold, now everything is suddenly swallowed at face value, without the slightest sign of critical thinking. Well, at least some past time fun during the curfew.

Yes, I have never ever witnessed a government official placing his own interest above anything else, never happens at the bottom no reason it should happen at the top, right?

Edited May 22, 2010 by firestar

[EastSaxCol]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

And Barack Obama is a commie don't you know.

[Fore Man]

Edited May 22, 2010 by Fore Man

[clown]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please, don't use words that you don't understand the meaning of. Just don't.

[OzMick]

'Puea Thai party to grill PM and four ministers; will nominate Chalerm as premier' http://bit.ly/cjvdis

Not only does the PTP support these red terrorists now they want to intall a person totally devoid of morals and principles as the next PM of Thailand.

They have no shame.

They have no chance. The coalition is firmly behind the PM. Puea Thai is useless.

Some coalition members were elected by red supporters, it is very unlikely they will find themselves in that position ever again.

And most PTP members were elected by people who were once red supporters, but who are as disgusted as myself with their antics. PTP may well disappear next election, especially if vote buying is rigorously checked.

[Thai at Heart]

If the burned, gutted Central World doesn't convince you, then you are lost cause.

This is politics and a legal fight from the government to try to prove that the reds are a terrorist organisation. If Thailand wants the world to throw its hands up and actually reach out and have someone help them get hold of Thaksin Shinawatra, I suggest that they get someone infinitely more competent than Suthep to make the case.

I don't want this country to descend into chaos anymore than you. Do I want the country held to ransom like this over and over again in the next few years? NO

So, if you want the rest of the world to help, I suggest that they employ the very best public relations and legal firm and independent observers in the world to make their case in a way that is absolutely water tight and free from any accusation of political bias.

Could you imagine for one second the Thai Foreign ministry making a case in the West on evidence submitted by Porntip. The defence would have an absolute field day. "But your honour, the witnesses competence concerning her forensic science ability must be called into question after she publicly defended the efficacy of the GT 2000 bomb detector. In fact we believe that she continued to support it because of pressure put on her by the Thai military so as not to embarrass them."

I don't find their story credible, pure and simple.

If they can't prove it convincingly to me, what hope do they have of convincing the rest of the world? Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism, irrespective of how bad their conduct has been.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[yesdavy]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers and bottle rockets. There were some using them yes, I understand that but when the sh*t was coming down they didn't hand stuff out or blow up the car bombs?

Be careful, this blog runs on emotion not common sense.

[Huey]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

Thank You, I could not have said it better, however I have been saying it for weeks. I'm glad that they were put down before they turned the country to Sh*&.

[Jirapa]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

They were not weapons of mass destruction, they were small arms with, of course, the exception of the car bombs.

That doesn't make it right but mass destruction is an unnecessary exaggeration.

6 car bombs? I doubt that. Car bombs are designed to blow up so it's funny that out of 6 none went off. All it takes is a phonecall to a cell phone or a timer which would have been set alternatly so one would have got the job done. I also doubt it would have been suicide bombers as the report doesn't claim the cars were occupied. From what the officials are saying the car bombs were already at the designated point of detonation so why didn't any go off? Oh....?????? they're a fabrication!

[yesdavy]

If the burned, gutted Central World doesn't convince you, then you are lost cause.

This is politics and a legal fight from the government to try to prove that the reds are a terrorist organisation. If Thailand wants the world to throw its hands up and actually reach out and have someone help them get hold of Thaksin Shinawatra, I suggest that they get someone infinitely more competent than Suthep to make the case.

I don't want this country to descend into chaos anymore than you. Do I want the country held to ransom like this over and over again in the next few years? NO

So, if you want the rest of the world to help, I suggest that they employ the very best public relations and legal firm and independent observers in the world to make their case in a way that is absolutely water tight and free from any accusation of political bias.

Could you imagine for one second the Thai Foreign ministry making a case in the West on evidence submitted by Porntip. The defence would have an absolute field day. "But your honour, the witnesses competence concerning her forensic science ability must be called into question after she publicly defended the efficacy of the GT 2000 bomb detector. In fact we believe that she continued to support it because of pressure put on her by the Thai military so as not to embarrass them."

I don't find their story credible, pure and simple.

If they can't prove it convincingly to me, what hope do they have of convincing the rest of the world? Furthermore, I doubt burning down Central World represents an act of terrorism.

There you go thinking. Why can't you just be emotional like everybody else....almost.

[mrsouza]

Yes, I have never ever witnessed a government official placing his own interest above anything else, never happens at the bottom no reason it should happen at the top, right?

I assume that was with a sprinkle of irony. Corruption in Thailand is like the Richter scale, exponential the higher you go.

[TheBarbarian]

Looks like they are the same as the yellow shirts. After the government house occupation they had so much weapons that a third world country would have ammunition for three years.

Ernie (Suthep) and Bert (Abhisit) have another reason to do nothing about Thailand's problems. They are only talking just like chuan always did. Lots of talking and no action. they could have attempted to re conciliate when they stole the power of the people through the courts, than they could have done it after the Pattaya summit and now they could start again. But what is more interesting than making a mess out of it, staying in power fill up your pockets and than next year when the next violent outbreak is there you start talking about reconciliation again. It is an illegal government not the biggest arms cash in the world can change a thing about that.

[rubl]

Best part is, judging from posts on other parts of this forum, most people here would not trust a police man or government official with five baht. But lo and behold, now everything is suddenly swallowed at face value, without the slightest sign of critical thinking. Well, at least some past time fun during the curfew.

Not face value, but just like you trying to understand and not be too judgemental. In principle even in Thailand I tend to believe some of the government statements more than those of the lovable PTP MP's who have spent the last two years obstructing anything the government tried. If all PT sponsored accusations filled could be dropped, who knows we might even find time to work on the 'yellow shirt' cases :-)

[SomTumTiger]

For everyone's amazement and incredulity -

[pimay11]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

Why does some Cretin always have to mention George Bush?

This is Thailand we're discussing.

Exactly. These loosers come to the LOS and try to use the local forums to espouse their USA political nonsense.

I personally take offense at your insinuating statement. I am an American, an extremely successful businessman, lived in Thailand for the past 5 years in great happiness and comfort, and believe that all things considered President Bush did well as our CINC during some pretty tough times, notably 9-11 and its aftermath. He is revered by all US military personnel for his hands-on, caring leadership. How dare you call us 'losers"? If you are as stupid and juvenile as it appears, I suggest you move to Somalia where your head-in-the-sand kind will be very useful in further ruining that country. We expats must remain impartial politically who sympathize with the plight of the Thai people instead of whiners who refuse to drop the rhetoric and hate...on either side of the divide. Please leave Thailand; we don't need LOSERS LIKE YOURSELF here.

Fore Man I am on your side. I am also an American and a Bush supporter and have always been. I apologize for not explaining futher my comment. I was referring to the cretin who called George Bush liar.

[Ga-gai]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

None of these are weapons of mass destruction.

The reds and their followers are probably suffering from mass stupidity!

Seems like they still won't accept the truth, even if it were were told.

Thaksin and his henchemen really know how to use stupidity as weapons of mass destruction!

Edited May 22, 2010 by Ga-gai

[shrekroma]

Tell me the Reds also have Nuke in their camp. That's more convincing.

What a joke. Yet lots of people idiotic enough to believe this news.

.

[OzMick]

I wonder what Americans would have thought if their republican forces had not fought with deadly weapons and then lost, or the yankees in their civil war.

And the English in their civil war,

And the Chinese in theirs,

And the French with their Revolution,

And then the Irish, Latin Amnericans, Vietnamese etc, etc.

All wars, rebellions and revolutions involve armed struggle with real weapons, real deaths and atrocities of some kind. I think the Reds and the people they represent have had a long and historical just cause and are at last trying to do something about it. OK maybe not in the Thai way, but then the Thai way just didn't work. The mistake they have made in many people's eyes is having Thaksin as one of their backers (not the only one), as he has hijacked their sentiments. But who else can they call on for support and maybe finance? How else can they achieve their aims, by taking part in elections? Well, that's all they've been asking for for several years so you can't really blame them for being impatient to have one quickly when they just don't trust the government to deliver one in the short term.

If they really wanted democracy, yes, they would have waited for elections when they were due, and not in the "short term" as they demanded. When they were given early elections, they equivocated. But of course, it wasn't about democracy, it was bloody rebellion.

apparently they have one or more M-60 GPMGs and link belt ammo for same - just the thing to take to a peaceful protest.

[dom samui]

he following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Sorry, "asiatimesonlone.com" does not exist or could not be found

http://www.atimes.com/

Merci!

[ndw]

While there was a lot of ammunition found there was not enough for the shooters to waste it. The thugs you saw hiding behind tires and shooting fire crackers were not using assault rifles and M79s because they had not been taught how to shoot properly. It would have been considered, by the red shirt leaders, to be a better use of those weapons to only allow them to be used by trained ex-army men in black militants.

[krystian]

Suthep is a liar same as George Bush

Maybe the reds had mass destruction weapons too...

Well they ma have similarities but in Dubya's case they found NOTHING but in Suthep's case they FOUND weapons!!

[oldgeezer]

Do tell us why you believe a single word of a publication founded by Sondhi Limtongul?

I wouldn't.

Also wouldn't believe any article by you that would put forward an outright lie about who founded, or even contributes to this wholly Chinese published printed and online newspaper.

You are a liar, and a stupid one at that. Anything you write to this forum needs to be suspect from now on. This is one of the few decent forums left.

Stay out you troll.