Why Doesn't My Weight Go Down ?

[Markland]

You are right i hear clen will help you burn an extra 5% that is not much at all. I never really liked it as i got really bad cramps. Even when i supplemented with taurine it was not really nice to use.

That's debatable too. If you're eating too much, all the supplementary aids in the world won't do any good.

Supplementary aids for stripping bodyfat should only be used by competition bodybuilders who are already down to low single digit fat percentages. Competition bodybuilding is a very unhealthy sport. There's no reason (other than laziness) for anyone else to ever try them.

Well i tried them but i am not lazy.But i agree in what you write.I would never take them again.

[robblok]

You are right i hear clen will help you burn an extra 5% that is not much at all. I never really liked it as i got really bad cramps. Even when i supplemented with taurine it was not really nice to use.

That's debatable too. If you're eating too much, all the supplementary aids in the world won't do any good.

Supplementary aids for stripping bodyfat should only be used by competition bodybuilders who are already down to low single digit fat percentages. Competition bodybuilding is a very unhealthy sport. There's no reason (other than laziness) for anyone else to ever try them.

Call it lazy, i would use them if i saw the benefits. I don't for clenbuterol it has too many sides that i don't like.

[tropo]

Well i tried them but i am not lazy.But i agree in what you write.I would never take them again.

We should aspire to a natural state of leanness. The best possible conditioning that we can hold onto naturally. Not much point in being in a chemically enhanced state which will require chemicals to maintain.

This would be my number one criticism of the 16 hour fast eating plan suggested by glbv. People are obviously getting results, but more people are getting results from normal eating plans. It's just too unnatural to wake up and not eat for 8 hours - how long would someone keep this up? Eventually they're going to crack and decide to eat breakfast as most of the world's population do. The easiest, least stressful, least funky programs will ultimately yield the best long-term results.

[tropo]

Call it lazy, i would use them if i saw the benefits. I don't for clenbuterol it has too many sides that i don't like.

If you're inclined to take chemicals to reduce your bodyfat, there are plenty to choose from. You could give HGH a whirl - that really strips the abdominal fat.... but you have to consider the long term. What's the point of maintaining a chemically enhanced physique if you need to continue using the chemicals. If you're happy to continue using the chemicals as many are in the case of HGH, then go for it.

Sylvester Stallone is a good example of a chemically enhanced physique into his 60's.... but he makes money from it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by tropo

[Markland]

Well i tried them but i am not lazy.But i agree in what you write.I would never take them again.

We should aspire to a natural state of leanness. The best possible conditioning that we can hold onto naturally. Not much point in being in a chemically enhanced state which will require chemicals to maintain.

This would be my number one criticism of the 16 hour fast eating plan suggested by glbv. People are obviously getting results, but more people are getting results from normal eating plans. It's just too unnatural to wake up and not eat for 8 hours - how long would someone keep this up? Eventually they're going to crack and decide to eat breakfast as most of the world's population do. The easiest, least stressful, least funky programs will ultimately yield the best long-term results.

what i feel sometimes when training it is like a competition.I see someone lift heavier then me or do something i cant do then i push myself to be as good as them.I don't know why.I good shape not perfect good muscle tone strong but don't take steroids.For me personally sometimes i wish i did.I feel they have a unfair advantage but in the end i always stop myself going down that route

you are right about the 16 hour fasting,It is unsustainable and the short gains might be great but in the end your body will crash and eat more and more and the fat will just come back.Now im learning not to be so serious about everything.Before i think to much about everything i put in my mouth but not so much now.Still for the most part healthy but i add cheat days into my schedule

i know it is important to push yourself when work out but rest is very important to.Especially at our age(i 50) i stronger now then when i was in 20s.

[robblok]

Call it lazy, i would use them if i saw the benefits. I don't for clenbuterol it has too many sides that i don't like.

If you're inclined to take chemicals to reduce your bodyfat, there are plenty to choose from. You could give HGH a whirl - that really strips the abdominal fat.... but you have to consider the long term. What's the point of maintaining a chemically enhanced physique if you need to continue using the chemicals. If you're happy to continue using the chemicals as many are in the case of HGH, then go for it.

Sylvester Stallone is a good example of a chemically enhanced physique into his 60's.... but he makes money from it.

Tropo,

I read about HGH and was offered a years supply of the stuff at reduced rates. It was still a lot of money and after having read about it the verdict is still out if it works or not. Its not like steriods you know those work. So i gave HGH a pass because i thought it would not be enough bang for my buck.

As for people saying steriods are unfair. They are illigal and if you use them and compete in a natural competition they are unfair. But if you are not competing or saying you reached something without them while you used them i don't understand the unfair remark.

[Markland]

i have been training hard the last few months.Well all year round and occasional take a break for a week.This week only trained yesterday full body which was a hard workout and i will do again friday.

I just need o rest i feel drained and my sleep isnt the best

ill be back with a blast next week

i think this aticle made some good points.I think the obssesed point is what is hapening to me

all i can think about is next workout

http://www.angrytrainerfitness.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-to-take-a-break-from-the-gym/

[glbv]

My Thaivisa forums are messed up (looks weird almost like im on my cell still but on my computer) so I didnt read everything.

Tropo for body fat I use calipers, if used properly these are very accurate. The electronic measuring methods as robo said are crap and will shoot off extremely inaccurate readings, even more so the more fat you have.

http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages This is a decent example of how to visually estimate BF and this lines up with the fact that atm im measuring 12% and see top 2 abs fairly defined.

Rule of thumb, anyone that says they are single digit bf and they dont count calories is wrong 99% of the time or A) Anorexic Gifted with godly genetics. Anyone not in contest prep will never be 6% or any of the other insane numbers such as 4% you hear people spout off. 5-7% takes an incredible amount of work to acheive and anything much lower is extremely unhealthy to sustain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_M%C3%BCnzer#Death Andreas Münzer is a bodybuilder who basicly died due to sustaining a low body fat and as a result is internal organs dissolved.

I use body fat % as a bench quite a bit but basicly what im saying as far as supplemental help for weight loss is, unless you can see 4-6 abs and you have a decent ammount of muscle mass, all the clen/fatloss pills/other snake oil crap out there right now wont do anything for you.

[glbv]

As for HGH rob, my uncle has been on it since around 2000 when it became more redily available. He pays a fortune in the states but hes 65 and regularly gets asked by people in the gym for advice and thinks hes 45. If you have the money to run it consistently I have been impressed with the results. But it comes with side effects just as anything else.

[Markland]

Today no gym and my diet is perfect and i don't feel hungry.On the days i train hard i sure do eat to much=muscle and some fat gains

love food to much

[tropo]

Tropo for body fat I use calipers, if used properly these are very accurate.

Absolutely no way are callipers "very accurate". They're not even slightly accurate. I went into quite some detail about this in another thread about bodyfat percentages which Robblok started today.

Unless you'd had a scan or jumped into a tank you couldn't possibly have a clue about your real percentages.

I showed decent ab definition at a bodyfat of 17% (and 18% hydrostatic weighing). At that time my calliper showed 10.7% bodyfat with ab pinches in the 10mm zone.

All that is required to show ab definition is a fat pinch of around 10mm or less. This does not relate to overall subcutaneous fat either because that varies so much from person to person. A good example was an ex-girlfriend who had extremely good ab definition while her ass was still huge (fat). She also carried a lot of arm fat at that time.

My upper abs are clearly discernible under 12mm of fat while lower abs are still hidden under 15mm.

[robblok]

As for HGH rob, my uncle has been on it since around 2000 when it became more redily available. He pays a fortune in the states but hes 65 and regularly gets asked by people in the gym for advice and thinks hes 45. If you have the money to run it consistently I have been impressed with the results. But it comes with side effects just as anything else.

I could get it for 40k for a years supply of 5iu a day. But i just don't think its worth it. I read a lot about it and some people had good results others don't. I also read you have to run it for a long time. 40k is just a bit too much for me for something im not sure of.

[tropo]

As for HGH rob, my uncle has been on it since around 2000 when it became more redily available. He pays a fortune in the states but hes 65 and regularly gets asked by people in the gym for advice and thinks hes 45. If you have the money to run it consistently I have been impressed with the results. But it comes with side effects just as anything else.

I could get it for 40k for a years supply of 5iu a day. But i just don't think its worth it. I read a lot about it and some people had good results others don't. I also read you have to run it for a long time. 40k is just a bit too much for me for something im not sure of.

You did the smart thing by not buying it.

I don't know what you'd be getting for that price (1825 IU for 40,000 baht). The best price I can get for a reputable brand direct from the manufacturers in China would be around 115,221 baht for the same amount... and you're getting that much for 40k? and there's still profit in it for the supplier? HGH is the most faked product on the market because of it's price and how difficult it is to test.

For starters, it's some generic crap of debatable origin and definitely under dosed if it is the real thing. I wouldn't touch it with a barge poll. Seriously, 5 IU per day of the real deal is far too high a dose. You shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 IU per day for health and 5 IU will produce too many side effects - I know - I've tried with less and couldn't handle it. You should also NEVER take it daily. A 1 or 2 day per week break is essential.

[pipo1000]

As for HGH rob, my uncle has been on it since around 2000 when it became more redily available. He pays a fortune in the states but hes 65 and regularly gets asked by people in the gym for advice and thinks hes 45. If you have the money to run it consistently I have been impressed with the results. But it comes with side effects just as anything else.

I could get it for 40k for a years supply of 5iu a day. But i just don't think its worth it. I read a lot about it and some people had good results others don't. I also read you have to run it for a long time. 40k is just a bit too much for me for something im not sure of.

You did the smart thing by not buying it.

I don't know what you'd be getting for that price (1825 IU for 40,000 baht). The best price I can get for a reputable brand direct from the manufacturers in China would be around 115,221 baht for the same amount... and you're getting that much for 40k? and there's still profit in it for the supplier? HGH is the most faked product on the market because of it's price and how difficult it is to test.

For starters, it's some generic crap of debatable origin and definitely under dosed if it is the real thing. I wouldn't touch it with a barge poll. Seriously, 5 IU per day of the real deal is far too high a dose. You shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 IU per day for health and 5 IU will produce too many side effects - I know - I've tried with less and couldn't handle it. You should also NEVER take it daily. A 1 or 2 day per week break is essential.

I used it a couple of years ago for 8 or 9 months at a ratio of 2.5 iu a day.If I remember correctly it costed me about 17.000 baht for a months supply of jintropin.It worked very good for my fat loss and bodyshape.

[tropo]

I used it a couple of years ago for 8 or 9 months at a ratio of 2.5 iu a day.If I remember correctly it costed me about 17.000 baht for a months supply of jintropin.It worked very good for my fat loss and bodyshape.

If you were getting the real Jintropin and not a fake copy, you were getting the real deal. Real Jintropin is no longer available as the president of the company got into hot water over importing it to the US. That was around the time of the Oympic games in Beijing.

You said you improved your body shape and fat percentage. This can easily be done without HGH. Many of us on this forum are achieving good results without drugs. I'm not against the use of HGH as a form of HRT as people age, but to use it solely to gain muscle or lose fat is not its intended use. Sure, it does work if used in moderation, but large doses are for idiots. Sooner or later bodybuilders get onto the bandwagon and spoil it for everyone.

I used it in an attempt to improve my connective tissue. The side effects were not worth it and my joints felt worse due to water retention and the swelling it causes.

[robblok]

As for HGH rob, my uncle has been on it since around 2000 when it became more redily available. He pays a fortune in the states but hes 65 and regularly gets asked by people in the gym for advice and thinks hes 45. If you have the money to run it consistently I have been impressed with the results. But it comes with side effects just as anything else.

I could get it for 40k for a years supply of 5iu a day. But i just don't think its worth it. I read a lot about it and some people had good results others don't. I also read you have to run it for a long time. 40k is just a bit too much for me for something im not sure of.

You did the smart thing by not buying it.

I don't know what you'd be getting for that price (1825 IU for 40,000 baht). The best price I can get for a reputable brand direct from the manufacturers in China would be around 115,221 baht for the same amount... and you're getting that much for 40k? and there's still profit in it for the supplier? HGH is the most faked product on the market because of it's price and how difficult it is to test.

For starters, it's some generic crap of debatable origin and definitely under dosed if it is the real thing. I wouldn't touch it with a barge poll. Seriously, 5 IU per day of the real deal is far too high a dose. You shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 IU per day for health and 5 IU will produce too many side effects - I know - I've tried with less and couldn't handle it. You should also NEVER take it daily. A 1 or 2 day per week break is essential.

Actually there were 3 of us buying so it would be a bulk buy. My mate also said it was a real good deal. But for now i still make progress the normal way and i found it a bit too expensive for my taste. Would even be cheaper to just go and do lipo suction then

[pipo1000]

I used it a couple of years ago for 8 or 9 months at a ratio of 2.5 iu a day.If I remember correctly it costed me about 17.000 baht for a months supply of jintropin.It worked very good for my fat loss and bodyshape.

If you were getting the real Jintropin and not a fake copy, you were getting the real deal. Real Jintropin is no longer available as the president of the company got into hot water over importing it to the US. That was around the time of the Oympic games in Beijing.

You said you improved your body shape and fat percentage. This can easily be done without HGH. Many of us on this forum are achieving good results without drugs. I'm not against the use of HGH as a form of HRT as people age, but to use it solely to gain muscle or lose fat is not its intended use. Sure, it does work if used in moderation, but large doses are for idiots. Sooner or later bodybuilders get onto the bandwagon and spoil it for everyone.

I used it in an attempt to improve my connective tissue. The side effects were not worth it and my joints felt worse due to water retention and the swelling it causes.

I'm sure I got the real thing as they had a verification system on their website where you could check the genuinity of each box,thgat was probably also the reason why it was expensive and actually worked.

I'm 50+ years old and at that age it takes a lot more effort to get results.The jintropin reduced my waist size without too much effort,something I could not realise before, and would tone my mussles and all this without needing a strict diet.

[tropo]

I'm sure I got the real thing as they had a verification system on their website where you could check the genuinity of each box,thgat was probably also the reason why it was expensive and actually worked.

I'm 50+ years old and at that age it takes a lot more effort to get results.The jintropin reduced my waist size without too much effort,something I could not realise before, and would tone my mussles and all this without needing a strict diet.

I read my post again and I would like to make a correction.

I said "You said you improved your body shape and fat percentage. This can easily be done without HGH."

Scrub the "easily".

It takes hard work and dedication.

Edited April 18, 2012 by tropo

[glbv]

Im not sure of your training scheduled as to what makes you hungry or you could just be under eating which I have done and you will slow your weight loss.

If your hungry later at night an intermittent fasting schedule might be beneficial to you.

Example:

9am- wake up get ready for the gym, drink pre workout

10am-12pm gym

8pm- 12am eat all your calories in this window of time.

My current routine based on my 2786 calorie intake, this is my cutting intake.

This is an exact copy from an application I use to track my calories and macros

Breakfast (559)

Controlled Labs Glycergrow 54

Egg whole, raw, fresh x6 480

Nestea 25

Dinner (1997)

Allowir Cheddar x2 140

Allowir light cheddar 60

Egg whole, raw, fresh x6 480

Farmhouse wholewhead bread x3 390

Chicken breast raw, skinless 326g 359

Oil 1tbsp 120

Onions, Raw 150g 58

Rice white cooked 300g 390

Evening Snack

Guylian original praline 211

Calories 2767,Protiein 203/Fat 127/Carbs 196

I use Tap&Track on my iphone, I think I paid 4 or 5$ for it but I couldnt do everything without it and the other ones ive tried like myfitness pal and livestrong just have a bad layout in compairison.

[chiang mai]

I've reached my target , I'm down to 83 kilo's (from 90) in the space of one month exactly, I'm now trying to balance my diet a little better to ensure I don't keep loosing weight. So there'll be a little bit of fun in there for me after eating a diet of celery, grass and the likes for the past four weeks! Interesting for me to understand where the weight goes on and comes off on my body, the gut (inevitably), the buttocks and the thighs are the three main areas for me. I haven't been as strict with my exersise regime as I would have wanted despite it now being much easier to exersise than before, have to get my head straight on that one. Understandable I have lost some muscle but it'll be fun(ish) gaining it back in a more controlled manner.

[glbv]

7k in a month o_o.... what was your calorie intake like. Sounds like a ton of muscle would have been lost along with the water and fat.

[chiang mai]

7k in a month o_o.... what was your calorie intake like. Sounds like a ton of muscle would have been lost along with the water and fat.

About 2k a day which is my long term norm, it was only because my intake went much higher for a few months that the extra weight was gained and started to cause some fairly serious health problems. I'm 62 and virtually all of my life I've been tall and lean and a hard gainer, no matter what I tried I was never able to break 180lbs and was absolutely convinvced that I never would - I'd previously attempted diets of 3,500 calories a day without gaining hardly any weight at all!.

Then for some reason last November I started to gain and my appetite increased naturally. By March I'd hit 200lbs and had developed metabolic syndrome and my blood works were seriously screwed up and my endocrinologist ordered me to loose 10% of my weight, for me that was very easily done. Yes I've lost some muscle but I'm now stabilised around 183 and will start experimenting with a more controlled and slower paced weight gain that regains the muscle.

[robblok]

7k in a month o_o.... what was your calorie intake like. Sounds like a ton of muscle would have been lost along with the water and fat.

Yea that is what i worry about too.. i just lost 2 kg in a week and im worried it might have been muscle. I hope it was just a shift in water weight. (put it on the other thread what happend) I really dont want to loose muscle because then its like you havent lost the weight at all. Its not about weight but fat percentage.

I hope for chiang mai that i was just water and fat

[chiang mai]

I'm touched by your concern, it brought a tear to my eye.

But seriously, I will almost certainly have lost some muscle although the majority of my loss was almost certainly fat, I had no signs of water retention although I agree some percentage must have been that, despite the fact that the majority of loss occured through diet and not physical exersise.

The loss of some muscle tissue was worth it in order to be able to shed the fat, the one thing this episode has taught me is to pay closer attention of what and how I eat/drink so I'm now much further ahead in that respect and am confident I can regain lost muscle in a more controlled manner. I suspect that many people of my age have never really looked that closely at their diet and have continued to eat "normally", despite their desire to reduce their gut size. I have to say that it takes a complete look at your entire diet to be sucessful plus a lot of will power, I'm fortunate in that I have loads of the latter.

I'm not sure the medical profession would fully endorse my approach, nor would those who are trying to sculpt their bodies. But a radical change of diet achieved my goals and when I saw my doctor three days ago she didn't raise any concerns and was in fact quite pleased. By radical I mean carrots, celery, krispbreads, grilled chicken, tuna, raw fruit - no cheating with snacks, no fried food, alcohol, pastries, cheese, bread, candies, soft drinks, limit yourself to a short list of known low fat items and try to get the right balance of carbo's vs protein. It's was also important for me to count calories so that I knew my intake, I need 2,300 daily and I targeted 1,500 intially and in the third week increased to 1,900 so as not to loose too much weight. And as I said earlier, the exersise part was not overdone, underdone if anything - 30 minutes running/fast walking and 30 minutes resistance training/weights, four times a week.

[robblok]

The reason why we are saying you lost water is this. Carbohydrates hold water, the moment you cut down on those and you did you will loose a lot of water weight.

As for loosing muscle, the fact is that muscle burns more calories then fat, so if you loose muscle you will also reduce the amount of calories that you burn. That is also bad.

Yes im sculpting my body so for me its extra bad especially if it means i have to loose even more weight just to get the looks that i want. I just want to loose fat not weight.

You are right about looking at what you eat and how many calories that is how it is done. That is how i do it. But i take things a bit slower. Seriously need to eat more as my weight still dropped. I am blaming some shift in hormones or so. Because its physically almost not possible to loose it that fast especially on the deficit that i am eating. But still. weight loss as such is not important its important that one looses fat. Water loss can be good too but fat loss should be the most important.

As for exercising sounds good with me, and i was concerned for not overly as you clearly don't value muscle the way i do. I workout hard to keep it and gain it (not much gaining when your dieting). You just wanted to reach a weight. But it should be about the fat you lost as fat is bad.

[chiang mai]

We're all trying to do similar but slightly different things for different reasons, I had to loose weight for medical reasons so I pulled out all the stops and reached my goal in rapid timescales with little regard for physical appearance, at age 62 I think I can be excused for that. Roblock on the otherhand is in the process of fine tuning his build and muscle percentage vs fat seems to be his primary goal. Others want to reduce their weight and probably fall between the two extremes of Roblock and myself - I know from earlier discussions that Tropo is closer to my camp than Roblock's for health reasons.

The message I think for everyone else out there is that there's a number of formula's for reducing weight based on what you want to achieve and importantly, how you choose to do it and how long before you see results. If you are seriously overweight it's not that difficult to get your weight down but the trade off will be time vs muscle loss. Those that want to reduce their weight but convert fat into muscle must take longer to reach their goal, either way it's all down to will power, diet and exersise, mostly will power.

[robblok]

We're all trying to do similar but slightly different things for different reasons, I had to loose weight for medical reasons so I pulled out all the stops and reached my goal in rapid timescales with little regard for physical appearance, at age 62 I think I can be excused for that. Roblock on the otherhand is in the process of fine tuning his build and muscle percentage vs fat seems to be his primary goal. Others want to reduce their weight and probably fall between the two extremes of Roblock and myself - I know from earlier discussions that Tropo is closer to my camp than Roblock's for health reasons.

The message I think for everyone else out there is that there's a number of formula's for reducing weight based on what you want to achieve and importantly, how you choose to do it and how long before you see results. If you are seriously overweight it's not that difficult to get your weight down but the trade off will be time vs muscle loss. Those that want to reduce their weight but convert fat into muscle must take longer to reach their goal, either way it's all down to will power, diet and exersise, mostly will power.

You make it sound like im your enemy 5555 I am here giving advice and my views. But i think its not being overweight that is the problem (else you could cut a leg off and loose weight radical but it would work), but the fat. Just my point of view, i dont know how a reduction in muscle could be beneficial for your health.

But i understand you and think what you did was great, there is bound to be some fat loss in all that weight loss.

Just one thing you cannot convert fat into muscle (myth) you burn the fat first and then later build the muscle. And don't you be thinking that im perfect or ripped. I wish i was im still not close. Im no competition bodybuilder, the avatar is just a joke. I just want to try to get a 6 pack. I got enough muscle but im not huge or anything like that.

[chiang mai]

On the contrary, I'm hugely grateful for the input you and others have provided here, it's a whole new learning curve for me.

[tropo]

On the contrary, I'm hugely grateful for the input you and others have provided here, it's a whole new learning curve for me.

I don't think your bodyweight or fat percentage was the problem. It's the reason behind your putting on weight which is the problem, not the weight itself.

You mentioned "metabolic syndrome" as your main concern. More specifically your insulin resistance was allowing you to put on fat which previously was difficult for you to do. It doesn't really matter if you're 80kg, 90kg or 100kg. Your health improved not because you lost weight, but because you took care of the insulin resistance through a low carb diet and exercise. Losing bodyweight was merely a side effect. You improved your insulin sensitivity and your bodyweight adjusted to your new, improved diet. As long as you keep your blood sugar levels normal, going up 5 or 10kg will not cause any health problems, especially if it is muscle.

In my case, I could be perfectly healthy at 20%, 15% or 10% bodyfat at a bodyweight of 100kg, 110kg or even 115kg. I'm choosing to get down to about 10% purely for aesthetic reasons but I don't believe I'll be any healthier than I would be at a higher fat percentage.

Edited May 3, 2012 by tropo

[chiang mai]

I agree, it'll be interesting to see what the blood works looks like at the end of this month.