Frozen Uk Government Pensions

[Daffy D]

Got this in my e-mail box today Frozen UK Pensioners fighting for Parity

Seems like they are gathering signatures for a new petition to unfreeze UK Government pensions to present to the new ministers.

Don't know if it will do much good as the UK seems to be bankrupt and they are threatening massive cuts in all sectors but it can't do any harm to add your name.

Edit:- Sorry Mods don't know how this got into the Bangkok forum please move it to general topics Thanks

Edited May 24, 2010 by Daffy D

[personchester]

Given the number of UK expats affected by the freezing process worldwide approx: 500,000 one is surprised that only 13,000+ have entered their names in order to take part. (although the number of countries involved is impressive) after all, it only takes say 10 mins. to complete the procedure.

So, come on chaps, move out from behind the parapet wall and take part in our last battle (Vera Lynn will support us with her songs) in order to ensure that No:10 will have no option other than to respond positively.

[Nignoy]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

[msg362]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

Simply a matter of natural justice. I paid for 40 years into the state pension and into private pensions. The private ones are index linked - I essentially had a contract with them. The State pension is frozen, a breach of contract ! The argument about expats not contributing to the UK economy is false- my pensions originate in the UK and I pay income tax on them. I don't however use any UK resources, saving the government money.

Edited May 25, 2010 by msg362

[Lizard2010]

It has always been the way that pensions have been frozen

I know someone that has had the same pension for 12 years.

She is that much out of pocket, it is a shame.

The Government should index for expats

[Nignoy]

It has always been the way that pensions have been frozen

I know someone that has had the same pension for 12 years.

She is that much out of pocket, it is a shame.

The Government should index for expats

Let the new govt sort out all the expats that are cheating and rorting the system, maybe then honest expats stand a chance of being paid what they should be entitled to!! as long as you get rorters boasting to the media how easy it is to rort the system , we will never get our full entitlement

[Penkoprod]

Hasnt this poor horse been flogged enough now?

How many times do we have to be told to "go forth and multiply" by Government after Government, before we realise we are spitting against the wind?

The case for expat pensioners to get automatic increases has been lost (and lost unequivocally, btw) in every court its been lodged in. This includes appeal courts, the House of Lords and THEIR appeals process, and the last chance saloon of the European Court of Human Rights (TWICE!!!) And thats without the need for any governmental PR machine being brought out, and used against the case

What could possibly make people think that appealing to the same people that have steadfastly refused grant the increases will make them crumple and change their minds?

I can think of better things to do with my time and effort than waste it pursuing some cause so lost, its unbelievable that people still think it can be won.

A well known politician once said "When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is......stop digging"!!!!!!

Penkoprod

[roamer]

Hasnt this poor horse been flogged enough now?

How many times do we have to be told to "go forth and multiply" by Government after Government, before we realise we are spitting against the wind?

The case for expat pensioners to get automatic increases has been lost (and lost unequivocally, btw) in every court its been lodged in. This includes appeal courts, the House of Lords and THEIR appeals process, and the last chance saloon of the European Court of Human Rights (TWICE!!!) And thats without the need for any governmental PR machine being brought out, and used against the case

What could possibly make people think that appealing to the same people that have steadfastly refused grant the increases will make them crumple and change their minds?

I can think of better things to do with my time and effort than waste it pursuing some cause so lost, its unbelievable that people still think it can be won.

A well known politician once said "When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is......stop digging"!!!!!!

Penkoprod

There is no legal "case", as you have stated its been lost unequivocally. However in terms of electoral mathematics, 500,000 expat pensioners with postal votes is a handy number to have on your side given that its always possible that;

1.) This government may well not go the full term.

2.) The law merely states that the government has the right to decide not to grant the increases, if in the name of "fairness and inclusion" government bywords, it decides to grant the increases it can do so.

Neat way to get 500K postal votes if you think you might need them.

[FarangBuddha]

The UK has an external debt of over 1 TRILLION US$ and the government already sucks-up over 50 percent of the country's GDP (which of course includes your pension)...so instead of sticking your head in the sand and being part of the problem by whinging about your pension cut...maybe instead you should be part of the solution and support the new government's attempts to get the UK's finances in some semblance of order.

[Penkoprod]

[

There is no legal "case", as you have stated its been lost unequivocally. However in terms of electoral mathematics, 500,000 expat pensioners with postal votes is a handy number to have on your side given that its always possible that;

1.) This government may well not go the full term.

2.) The law merely states that the government has the right to decide not to grant the increases, if in the name of "fairness and inclusion" government bywords, it decides to grant the increases it can do so.

Neat way to get 500K postal votes if you think you might need them.

Counter that with the MILLIONS of potential votes lost from hard pressed tax paying families, struggling under an ever increasing debt burden should they be forced to stump up even more cash, and make greater sacrifices, just so the Government can pay "500,000 expat pensioners with postal votes" funding meant for UK pensioners, just to live "La Vida Loca" in some far off place percieved as paradise.

Why do you think no national newspaper has taken up the cause?

They will have done the numbers, and would be thinking its abad cause to be seen to be getting behind, perhaps?

Those newspapers that bothered to even report on the case had their comments colunms filled with irate UK residents saying more or less what the authorities have been saying.

Its a lost cause, unfortunatly.

I notice that a few posts are appearingc here that are bearing out exactly what i am saying

These people are entitled to their opinion, and i would stick my neck out and say the vast majority of UK citizens are of the same opinion.

Penkoprod

[4.real]

If I read the ruling correctly our appeal was thrown out because the judges decided that our paid for pension is a 'government benefit'...

Benefit?..I have paid 44 years towards my pension.On my salary slips was a part that stated 'EMPLOYERS NHS CONTRIBUTION'[also towards MY pension]...What a great scam and 99% of people are still confused ..All of the payments [employers/employees contributions] have been earned by the EMPLOYEE...

I was given the choice of 'opting out' of the scam but was not allowed to take my 'empolyers contributions' and put that along with the same amount I paid the government,into a private pension plan that would have given me a far better complete deal than the british governments 'benefit'..

[quote name='Penkoprod' date='2010-05-25 15:19:53' post='3641055

Hasnt this poor horse been flogged enough now?

How many times do we have to be told to "go forth and multiply" by Government after Government, before we realise we are spitting against the wind?

The case for expat pensioners to get automatic increases has been lost (and lost unequivocally, btw) in every court its been lodged in. This includes appeal courts, the House of Lords and THEIR appeals process, and the last chance saloon of the European Court of Human Rights (TWICE!!!) And thats without the need for any governmental PR machine being brought out, and used against the case

What could possibly make people think that appealing to the same people that have steadfastly refused grant the increases will make them crumple and change their minds?

I can think of better things to do with my time and effort than waste it pursuing some cause so lost, its unbelievable that people still think it can be won.

A well known politician once said "When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is......stop digging"!!!!!!

Penkoprod

Edited May 25, 2010 by 4.real

[Penkoprod]

If I read the ruling correctly our appeal was thrown out because the judges decided that our paid for pension is a 'government benefit'...

Benefit?..I have paid 44 years towards my pension.On my salary slips was a part that stated 'EMPLOYERS NHS CONTRIBUTION'[also towards MY pension]...What a great scam and 99% of people are still confused ..All of the payments [employers/employees contributions] have been earned by the EMPLOYEE...

I was given the choice of 'opting out' of the scam but was not allowed to take my 'empolyers contributions' and put that along with the same amount I paid the government,into a private pension plan that would have given me a far better complete deal than the british governments 'benefit'..

The fundemental flaw in your argument is that you are saying the increases in your State Pension are based on your contibutions?

Well, unfortunatly they are not, and never has (have?) been based on that, and, by the looks of it, it never WILL BE now. Thats the reality of it. You get whatever level of State Pension you are entitled to, based on your contributions......and nothing more. Thats it, end of story, game over, finito.

The appeal(s) were thrown out without the Government breaking sweat, it was that easy and clear cut for them. They didnt even need to bring out the big guns to defeat the motion......just a little stick.

You only have to look at the history of the pension scheme to know how futile this whole thing is.

We can be "angry of Ayutthaya" or indignant of Issan" all we like, but the popular point of view is as i have stated in previous posts on this subject.

Penkoprod

[sarahsbloke]

Easy answer

Return to the UK, declare yourself homeless, claim housing benefits, etc., after 6 months move abroad again with your new uprated pension.

While there get new glasses, have your teeth sorted, new hip maybe all on the government.

How easy was that?

Edited May 25, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Penkoprod]

Easy answer

Return to the UK, declare yourself homeless, claim housing benefits, etc., after 6 months move abroad again with your new uprated pension.

While there get new glasses, have your teeth sorted, new hip maybe all on the government.

How easy was that?

Again....a fatally flawed post high on adrenaline,nd testosterone, but short on facts, sorry to say

1) you can "declare yourself" King of Britain for all the good it will do...nevermind homeless

Look up the term "intentionally homeless" and you will find it can be applied to each and every expat.

That means every council in the land can use the legislation to REFUSE you any help with housing you. There is no legal obligation for them to do anything, except lend you a cardboard box. And, with no formal address, there goes all your "housing benefits etc"

You MIGHT catch them in generous mood where they offer you a flat on a sink estate, with a landscape of broken galss, burnt out cars and matresses in the roads, etc, etc. Not my idea of a fun filled retirement...how about you?

2) Not 100% sure on this, but i have read that, while you DO "enjoy the benefits" of your <ahem> uprated pension while you are here, it drops back down to its previous level as soon as you leave again. Even if thats NOT correct, do you honestly think its worth all the hassle of living in squalor, or sponging off rellies for a few Pounds (Pence??) a week on an already pathetic pension??

3) You obviously didnt see any postings, recent or otherwise, about NHS entiltment for returning expats, i take it?

More and more people are discovering the TRUE extent of the problems faced when returning as the "prodical son"

Not so much a fatted calf, but a kick in the plums awaits people with an attitude like you seem to encourage.

In order to play the game its best to know the rules, dont you think?

Penkoprod

[sarahsbloke]

1) Maybe you are right, claim asylum as a refugee from a civil war maybe? (If the foreign office issues a warning, it shouldn't be a problem)

2) Once you have taken up residence the pension increase is permanent, if you leave again, it is frozen at the new level.

3) You are entitled to full NHS cover if it is your intention to again live full time in the UK.

I never worry too much about rules, quick brick through the nearest UK shop window should get you a roof over the head pretty quick.

I'm told it's very comfortable, pool table, colour Tv, decent food, free clothing, etc.

Anyway, I'm only here on a long sabbatical ..........

Edited May 25, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[GuestHouse]

In case anyone missed the news - There's no money left in the kitty.

This Government have the unenviable task of cutting something like 12% off public spending if they intend to get the books balanced inside one term off office.

[JohnC]

Neat way to get 500K postal votes if you think you might need them.

So how do you get a postal vote when you do not have a UK address and are on an electoral roll somewhere? Who can you vote for if you do not have a constituency?

[somtampet]

It has always been the way that pensions have been frozen

I know someone that has had the same pension for 12 years.

She is that much out of pocket, it is a shame.

The Government should index for expats

Let the new govt sort out all the expats that are cheating and rorting the system, maybe then honest expats stand a chance of being paid what they should be entitled to!! as long as you get rorters boasting to the media how easy it is to rort the system , we will never get our full entitlement

hear hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[F1fanatic]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

I realise I'm missing out on the modern 'lingo' here, but what is 'rorting'?

As a previous poster pointed out, we paid for our pension throughout our working lives and are still paying tax on it, without receiving any 'benefits'. Having invested that money for 40 years or so, why should the pension be frozen?

I fail to see why someone who retired to Spain should have their pension index linked whilst someone who retired elsewhere, doesn't.

Have to agree though that there is zero chance of anything changing, the government has far too many concerns trying to keep the UK afloat without worrying about a tiny minority of disgruntled ex-pats.

Thank god for private pensions!

[personchester]

It has always been the way that pensions have been frozen

I know someone that has had the same pension for 12 years.

She is that much out of pocket, it is a shame.

The Government should index for expats

The UK government does index expats pensions, unfortunately however only half of them, that is to say from the total 1.Mill. expats pensioners 500,000 in certain countries get the annual increase, and the other 500,000 have their pension frozen.

A rather crazy parliamentary ruling, MP's that are being asked the question 'WHY" by journalists don't know what to say, some mumble about having to give priority to resident pensioners, which is of course a silly reply since 500,000 expats get the annual increase, others say the Exchequer has not got sufficient money to make the payment, all nonsense really, since the increase represents only 1% of the State Pension Pot.

But there is a chance that matters will be resolved, Nick Clegg (LIB-DEM) the new deputy PM has mentioned in the 'house' some time ago that this matters must be dealt with in a positive manner, therefore lets keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

[MB1]

The pension being frozen is not something new, criticism of the policy was happening in the 1960,s, so for all those thinking it's a recent political decision they really do need to read up and understand the reciprocal agreements which have been in place for many years.

Since 1981 no Government has given any new commitments to uprate pensions abroad.

As for the poster who said the increase is only 1% of the State pension pot, me thinks not, lets think that if State Pensions pensions were to be un-frozen for expats who are living in countries without the reciprocal agreement then their next step would be to demand repayments for the years they never received increases..

Works out to be quite a lot of money..In 2007-2008, estimates were then around £3 BILLION pounds to bring frozen pensions up to current levels and pay off all the arrears.

If no arrears were paid it would cost around £420 million which will rise year on year..

Edited May 25, 2010 by MB1

[rgs2001uk]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

I realise I'm missing out on the modern 'lingo' here, but what is 'rorting'?

As a previous poster pointed out, we paid for our pension throughout our working lives and are still paying tax on it, without receiving any 'benefits'. Having invested that money for 40 years or so, why should the pension be frozen?

I fail to see why someone who retired to Spain should have their pension index linked whilst someone who retired elsewhere, doesn't.

Have to agree though that there is zero chance of anything changing, the government has far too many concerns trying to keep the UK afloat without worrying about a tiny minority of disgruntled ex-pats.

Thank god for private pensions!

"Thank god for private pensions!"

Dont want to burst your bubble, the following may give an insight into the state of play regarding private pensions,

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/24052010/389/top-10-places-work.html

Of more concern would be the following line, taken from the above source.

"Britain's 100 leading employers collectively face a £66bn shortfall in their pension scheme investments"

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, any pension I MAY collect will be viewed as nothing more than a bonus, and since then have been making my own arrangements.

Its only my opinion, but for what its worth, anyone relying solely on a pension from the government is a fool.

[F1fanatic]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

I realise I'm missing out on the modern 'lingo' here, but what is 'rorting'?

As a previous poster pointed out, we paid for our pension throughout our working lives and are still paying tax on it, without receiving any 'benefits'. Having invested that money for 40 years or so, why should the pension be frozen?

I fail to see why someone who retired to Spain should have their pension index linked whilst someone who retired elsewhere, doesn't.

Have to agree though that there is zero chance of anything changing, the government has far too many concerns trying to keep the UK afloat without worrying about a tiny minority of disgruntled ex-pats.

Thank god for private pensions!

"Thank god for private pensions!"

Dont want to burst your bubble, the following may give an insight into the state of play regarding private pensions,

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/24052010/389/top-10-places-work.html

Of more concern would be the following line, taken from the above source.

"Britain's 100 leading employers collectively face a £66bn shortfall in their pension scheme investments"

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, any pension I MAY collect will be viewed as nothing more than a bonus, and since then have been making my own arrangements.

Its only my opinion, but for what its worth, anyone relying solely on a pension from the government is a fool.

So what private arrangements do you recommend?

[MB1]

If I read the ruling correctly our appeal was thrown out because the judges decided that our paid for pension is a 'government benefit'...

Benefit?..I have paid 44 years towards my pension.On my salary slips was a part that stated 'EMPLOYERS NHS CONTRIBUTION'[also towards MY pension]...What a great scam and 99% of people are still confused ..All of the payments [employers/employees contributions] have been earned by the EMPLOYEE...

I was given the choice of 'opting out' of the scam but was not allowed to take my 'empolyers contributions' and put that along with the same amount I paid the government,into a private pension plan that would have given me a far better complete deal than the british governments 'benefit'..

The fundemental flaw in your argument is that you are saying the increases in your State Pension are based on your contibutions?

Well, unfortunatly they are not, and never has (have?) been based on that, and, by the looks of it, it never WILL BE now. Thats the reality of it. You get whatever level of State Pension you are entitled to, based on your contributions......and nothing more. Thats it, end of story, game over, finito.

The appeal(s) were thrown out without the Government breaking sweat, it was that easy and clear cut for them. They didnt even need to bring out the big guns to defeat the motion......just a little stick.

You only have to look at the history of the pension scheme to know how futile this whole thing is.

We can be "angry of Ayutthaya" or indignant of Issan" all we like, but the popular point of view is as i have stated in previous posts on this subject.

Penkoprod

And that's what some people just don't understand, they think their entitled to it but the truth is that paying contributions has never given an automatic right to benefits.

Below taken from the House of Commons Library website..

The agreement between a person and the State is that payment of contributions only gives entitlement to a package of benefits subject to certain conditions, and one condition is that retirement pension upratings are generally not payable abroad and that ruling go's way back to 1952 legislation.

The rate of national insurance contributions has never included an element for the indexation of pensions payable abroad because the social security scheme was designed primarily for those living in the UK, any uprating in the pension is designed to meet the cost of living in the UK

[personchester]

if you decide to leave UK as a place of residence why should your pension not be frozen at its original rate, there are 1000,s of expats , still registered as residing in uk and living and working overseas and claiming full uk pensions and allowances, so making it difficult for any new govt to look at the problem without being influenced by all the reports of cheating, my wife and I are both disabled aged pensioners living in australia, but we knew our pensions would be frozen at the same level so we allowed for it, this petition went to the european court and got thrown out why should a new govt think any different

I realise I'm missing out on the modern 'lingo' here, but what is 'rorting'?

As a previous poster pointed out, we paid for our pension throughout our working lives and are still paying tax on it, without receiving any 'benefits'. Having invested that money for 40 years or so, why should the pension be frozen?

I fail to see why someone who retired to Spain should have their pension index linked whilst someone who retired elsewhere, doesn't.

Have to agree though that there is zero chance of anything changing, the government has far too many concerns trying to keep the UK afloat without worrying about a tiny minority of disgruntled ex-pats.

Thank god for private pensions!

"Thank god for private pensions!"

Dont want to burst your bubble, the following may give an insight into the state of play regarding private pensions,

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/24052010/389/top-10-places-work.html

Of more concern would be the following line, taken from the above source.

"Britain's 100 leading employers collectively face a £66bn shortfall in their pension scheme investments"

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, any pension I MAY collect will be viewed as nothing more than a bonus, and since then have been making my own arrangements.

Its only my opinion, but for what its worth, anyone relying solely on a pension from the government is a fool.

Please do not refer to people who have to rely on State pensions as fools, private pension arrangements requires monthly payments to be invested in the markets.

Masses of British people (the so called working classes) don't have sufficient income to invest in private pension arrangements and have therefore no option other than to rely on state pension.

[David006]

Easy answer

Return to the UK, declare yourself homeless, claim housing benefits, etc., after 6 months move abroad again with your new uprated pension.

While there get new glasses, have your teeth sorted, new hip maybe all on the government.

How easy was that?

Excellent..!!

I met a well heeled Brit on his 60 ft yacht that did just that and was advising anyone who would listen to do it..lol ...unethical yes but it is certainly strange that the freezing only applies to certain commonwealth countries...go figure... especially when the inept bankers just put out a hand and get given millions....sigh...

I know I just can't wait for my three pounds ten a month in a few years..lol

[personchester]

If I read the ruling correctly our appeal was thrown out because the judges decided that our paid for pension is a 'government benefit'...

Benefit?..I have paid 44 years towards my pension.On my salary slips was a part that stated 'EMPLOYERS NHS CONTRIBUTION'[also towards MY pension]...What a great scam and 99% of people are still confused ..All of the payments [employers/employees contributions] have been earned by the EMPLOYEE...

I was given the choice of 'opting out' of the scam but was not allowed to take my 'empolyers contributions' and put that along with the same amount I paid the government,into a private pension plan that would have given me a far better complete deal than the british governments 'benefit'..

The fundemental flaw in your argument is that you are saying the increases in your State Pension are based on your contibutions?

Well, unfortunatly they are not, and never has (have?) been based on that, and, by the looks of it, it never WILL BE now. Thats the reality of it. You get whatever level of State Pension you are entitled to, based on your contributions......and nothing more. Thats it, end of story, game over, finito.

The appeal(s) were thrown out without the Government breaking sweat, it was that easy and clear cut for them. They didnt even need to bring out the big guns to defeat the motion......just a little stick.

You only have to look at the history of the pension scheme to know how futile this whole thing is.

We can be "angry of Ayutthaya" or indignant of Issan" all we like, but the popular point of view is as i have stated in previous posts on this subject.

Penkoprod

And that's what some people just don't understand, they think their entitled to it but the truth is that paying contributions has never given an automatic right to benefits.

Below taken from the House of Commons Library website..

The agreement between a person and the State is that payment of contributions only gives entitlement to a package of benefits subject to certain conditions, and one condition is that retirement pension upratings are generally not payable abroad and that ruling go's way back to 1952 legislation.

The rate of national insurance contributions has never included an element for the indexation of pensions payable abroad because the social security scheme was designed primarily for those living in the UK, any uprating in the pension is designed to meet the cost of living in the UK

If that is the case why then do half of the UK expats get their pension indexed and the other half not, a silly ruling indeed.

The UK parliamentary pension arragements were implemented (basically) after WW2 that is to say more than two generations ago when Britain was socially and economically a different country, and it is time therefore to have UK pension matters reviewed and updated as indeed other european countries have done ... i.e. France, Belgium, Germany, Holland, etc ... so come on your new chaps at Westminster update your country.

[Dave the Dude]

This is interesting of you were a civil Servant....

http://www.pension-parity-uk.com/gmp.htm

[personchester]

Hasnt this poor horse been flogged enough now?

How many times do we have to be told to "go forth and multiply" by Government after Government, before we realise we are spitting against the wind?

The case for expat pensioners to get automatic increases has been lost (and lost unequivocally, btw) in every court its been lodged in. This includes appeal courts, the House of Lords and THEIR appeals process, and the last chance saloon of the European Court of Human Rights (TWICE!!!) And thats without the need for any governmental PR machine being brought out, and used against the case

What could possibly make people think that appealing to the same people that have steadfastly refused grant the increases will make them crumple and change their minds?

I can think of better things to do with my time and effort than waste it pursuing some cause so lost, its unbelievable that people still think it can be won.

A well known politician once said "When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is......stop digging"!!!!!!

Penkoprod

Britain was in a deep hole in 1940, did we stop digging ... of course not, we had to protect our interests and the digging was successful.

Currently, B.A. (British Airways) is in a deep hole (financially) yet the "cabin crew" in an effort to protect their interests do not stop digging, by going on strike, and B.A. is making more concessions as the digging (strike) continuous, so why should the frozen pensioners stop digging when it is vital for them to protect their interests also.

As to the frozen pension, the majority of the judges (not all of them) in the five court cases made the point that this is/was not a legal matter but a matter of morality which has to be sorted and solved by the British parliament, it is important therefore that the affected expats keep on pressing the case forward in order to succeed and in this are supported by several foreign governments.

[personchester]

Hasnt this poor horse been flogged enough now?

How many times do we have to be told to "go forth and multiply" by Government after Government, before we realise we are spitting against the wind?

The case for expat pensioners to get automatic increases has been lost (and lost unequivocally, btw) in every court its been lodged in. This includes appeal courts, the House of Lords and THEIR appeals process, and the last chance saloon of the European Court of Human Rights (TWICE!!!) And thats without the need for any governmental PR machine being brought out, and used against the case

What could possibly make people think that appealing to the same people that have steadfastly refused grant the increases will make them crumple and change their minds?

I can think of better things to do with my time and effort than waste it pursuing some cause so lost, its unbelievable that people still think it can be won.

A well known politician once said "When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is......stop digging"!!!!!!

Penkoprod

Britain was in a deep hole in 1940, did we stop digging ... of course not, we had to protect our interests and the digging was successful.

Currently, B.A. (British Airways) is in a deep hole (financially) yet the "cabin crew" in an effort to protect their interests do not stop digging, by going on strike, and B.A. is making more concessions as the digging (strike) continuous, so why should the frozen pensioners stop digging when it is vital for them to protect their interests also.

As to the frozen pension, the majority of the judges (not all of them) in the five court cases made the point that this is/was not a legal matter but a matter of morality which has to be sorted and solved by the British parliament, it is important therefore that the affected expats keep on pressing the case forward in order to succeed and in this are supported by several foreign governments.

I forgot to mention in my above reply that the adage "when you are in a hole stop digging" is a phraseology

used by polititians to make a point towards the opposition, the frozen pension expats are not in a hole they are on the surface and marching forward.