Pattaya School

[haggis66]

Yes i'm new to the forum but not new to Thailand (14 years).

This is a warning regarding a certain school in Pattaya and i'm also looking for any suitable advice which could help. I'll try to make it short!!

My daughter (6) has been attending *(name of the school removed)* in pattaya from nursery through kindergarden 1,2 & 3. She started at primary 1 last week and received her first Thai dance class on Monday. During the class the kids were asked by the teacher (ladyboy) to copy some song lyrics from the board into their school book. During this time the teacher in what i can only describe as ''whack'' several of the children with a wooden stick. Unfortunately my daughter was one of them and the reason given was that she was writing too slow thus received the ''whack'' across the back of the neck/shoulder area. On inspection of the area after she returned from school there was still a red mark left from the ''whack''. The reason i believe it to be a ''whack'' is that the dance lesson was before school lunch time and she returned from school at 4pm!! (wish i had taken a photo) and yes my daughter is terrified of the teacher.

The school gives a correspondence book home for the teachers to write any comments in and likewise for the parents to reply to. I mentioned this in the book as being unacceptable and spoke with her english teacher and my wife spoke with her Thai teacher to see if we could get some insight into the ladyboy's actions and what the we can do to avoid this happening again. Both teachers were surprised this was happening in their school and even jokinly said that they could believe it happening to some of the kids but not to my daughter. The only response in the following days was that they could not contact the ladyboy and that she only attends the school on a monday and thursday and we would have to wait until then. They did take my daughter and another student who's mother also complained about her daughter being ''whacked'' into the head teacher/owners room and was asked if it was sore (''yeab'') and were given a test to see if they were slow writers.

Today we went to see the owner regarding the incident and to discuss further (i had mentioned the need to discuss further in the correspondence book but never received a reply). We talked about the issue and the owner admitted that the ladyboy was wrong and should have not be ''whacking'' children with a stick and then proceeded to say that my daughters written test was not slow. I mentioned our ideas to the owner in an attempt to resolve this issue and get her to give the schools suggestions

My suggestions in order of preference:

1. Change the whacking ladyboy teacher.

2. During dance class they can send my daughter to a alternative class

3. We have to change school for my daughter.

The school suggestion:

1. During dance class my daughter and the other girl who's mother complained sit in the corner of the dance class and watch the other kids dance. (this is true i shit you not)

We went to pick up my daughter after school today where i saw the owner and asked if she had talked to the ''whacker'' she replied that the ladyboy would come and say sorry for whacking your child and that's it. I replied that i would be in the car and advised the owner not to send the ladyboy to me as i didn't want any ''further'' problems and would send my wife over to collect my daughter (actually thought my wife would have a go).

Now we are left with having to change schools or let the ''whacker'' get away with it and have my frightened daughter sit in the corner of her dance class and watch the others. I have decided next week we will attempt to move my daughter to a new school but want to take things further regarding the ''whacking''. I will also be looking for the monies returned for the school term, books etc and my wife has already talked with the local Amphur who have advised us where to go (education place in Pattaya for dealing with schools?)

Finally a few points ....we don't want be an over protective parents and have explained to both her main teachers that a smack on the hand/leg/bum is well acceptable if deserved but the stick to the back of the head is not. Several of the other parents have called and spoke with my wife regarding their kids also being hit but only one other parent has the balls to do anything about it. One parent did surprise me in saying that his kid was naughty and probably deserved it!!

I don't know the Thai laws regarding hitting school children with a stick in school but hope to find out soon. I would appreciate any help in following this up in regards of who to contact and what i should do to make sure this does not happen to any other kids.

DANGER!!!! The lady boy teaches at some other school in Pattaya so be aware if your child has a ladyboy dance teacher.

[Zstarx]

Why don't you get the ladyboy to Wai your daughter in front of the class as a form of apology?

[rocketmanbkk]

Hi

If this is true, of which i do not doubt you, I would go to teh school and 'whack' the teacher concerned.

I have a 5yo and in anyone som much as laid a finger on her they'd be for it. be a man and get this sorted.

Furthermore, the reason for the whack of 'slow writing' is rubbish. 6 yo cannot and do not write fast, they need to take their time and do things correctly and neatly.

Get down the school and have a 'little chat' with the ladyboy teacher.

[haggis66]

Sorry too easy for the ladyboy after ''whacking' my daughter who is still terrified and that's after an aplolgy at school today from the LB. I understand the Thai way and the loosing face thing but sorry it doesn't work for me. To see the mark on her and her tears a wai is just not enough ......maybe i'm lucky my daughter doesn't wear a gold chain to school ......

[haggis66]

Egg,

I was at school today and saw the LB but told the owner and my wife to keep her away from me as i didn't want any more problems (if you know what i mean). I'm Scottish and my daughter's english teacher is Scottish and when i first mentioned this to her the day after i jokingly said in my own jock way that i would be returning later with my big stick but this being Thailand there would only be one loser.

[Scott]

I have edited out the name of the school. There are legal implications in leaving it in a thread.

Please exercise care in your posting. We want the thread to be kept open, but can't if people began making suggestions which are illegal. Let's also be careful about going off-topic and discussing ladyboys.

Thanks.

[haggis66]

Sorry mod please delete my ''where has it gone'' post please.

I would like to keep this topic active as a warning to others and also to get some advice so please help keep it clean.

Hope it's okay to use LB or ''whacker''

Haggis

[AzarovDmitriy]

It is terrible.

Excuse me.

Can you say me name of the school?

I have 2 children too.

[barryofthailand]

You should have gone to the Pattaya police dept, log in a complaint, and see one of the investigative captains. They would have accompanied you to the school, and investigated the matter.

Barry

[haggis66]

Barry,

Thanks i wish i had done and i actually mentioned that point to my wife earlier along with wishing i had taken a photo. Probably too late now so we'll have to wait to see what the education peeps from this area advise us on Monday and any other doable ideas which may come fr.om this forum

Cheers

[BWPattaya]

You should have gone to the Pattaya police dept, log in a complaint, and see one of the investigative captains. They would have accompanied you to the school, and investigated the matter.

Barry

That was my first thought. I believe it is now illegal for teachers to punish students in this way.

I think you should also confront the LB and then remove your child from that school If you are paying the school then they lose the income due to their failure to protect those who they are in loco parentis.

You will never be happy with your child in this school now, and she will be unsettled. Mover her.

Edited May 27, 2010 by BWPattaya

[Scott]

I doubt that it is too late to go to the police and it still might be advisable. The obligation of the school is to protect the students. That does not mean that they cannot protect it's employees by doing a full investigation.

Having been involved in a number of these situations, here's what I have done in the past. First, the teacher is immediately suspended with pay pending an investigation. Suspending without pay would basically be a punishment for an unsubstantiated charge. This means interviewing the students--in a non-threatening and without leading them in any direction. The teacher is also interviewed.

In this case, if the teacher was going to apologize, then it means he is acknowledging that he did whack the student. Most teachers, will acknowledge what they did, but will either justify their actions, minimize it or the argument will center on the amount of 'force' used.

If the incident is serious enough the school needs to discharge the teacher. If the parties involved are amenable to a meeting and work out a solution, then that needs to be done. Parents, the teacher and Administration sit down and resolve the situation in such a way that all are satisfied with the outcome.

I won't get into the other things that are done to assist students who have been traumatized or teachers who might need assistance (or admin who might need to put let pressure on both teachers and students). The point is, everyone needs to know that students are safe and that whatever systemic problems let to the problem are corrected.

[Explorer]

should have made a police report and medical check up (when it happened) so your complaint would be treated official and can be used for further actions - court, press and others.

[haggis66]

BW & Scott,

Thanks for the replies

My wife's mate's father is a retired education administrator (something like that) and she is going to talk to him tomorrow morning to get his reaction and we are even considering going to the police station to file a complaint and hope something can be done there too but maybe too late?.

BW is correct in that my daughter and us will never be happy or settled at this school now and our intention is to move schools as the school in question seems only willing to sit my daughter and one of the other kids in the dance room corner and watch the other kids until they feel comfortable with the ''whacker''. No one is in denial it happened and the teacher in question has admitted hitting my daughter with the stick and others but only SOFTLY!!

I must also say that we like the school and the teachers and never had any problems the previous 4 years. A few teachers have asked us not to consider leaving and i believe they know who is at fault but an even bigger feeling is they for obvious reasons as job etc dare not show to be taking sides.

We have also learned that the teacher in question is not qualified in any way to teach children and may not understand that a stick is for hitting buffalo's and not 6 year old kids ....... could even of been in a bad mood if he/she did not get to see the boy George concert in Pattaya.

[norrona]

a woman trapped inside a mans body is a very dangerous combination indeed

[haggis66]

Almost as bad as a woman trapped inside a womans body?

[norrona]

all the venom of a woman with the strength of a man

good luck with sorting out this vile creature

[Phil Conners]

While I understand the legal reason, the story without the name of the school is useless.

[haggis66]

As much as i would like to sort he/she or it out it would only make matters worse and i have heard that the wierd creatures can pack a punch ...... i'm sure a (Glasgow kiss) head but would sort out the animal out.

I'm sure something positive will come out of it as to prevent it happening again to others as the teacher admits to hitting the kids but the school fees being returned could be a tough one. Yes i can afford it but why let them get away with it when we are not in the wrong. As i see it (they won't) the school is responsible for their employees and their employees actions. It's just a hassle having to move schools and unsettle my daughter even more at no fault of ours.

I not normally this way inclined and tend to be easy going and let things be swept under the carpet but this has got me fuming. The wife's more upset than me over this and she's Thai where even some drunk smacked our car it was okay ''mai pen rai''

[kopite]

fair play to you OP. i wouldnt be able to show the same restraint. the LB would be in hospital by now. i know thats not the correct response, and not maybe what many TV members want to read, but in my eyes, nobody puts their hands on my blood.

if this had happened in the western world the said "teacher", would be in prison allready. FACT!

[innovator]

My girlfriend would have taken out that LB quickly. If that happened to her daughter, that LB wouldn't even be on the planet at this point.

The venom of an enraged mother is even stronger than the venom of a man trapped in a woman's body.

[farangpattaya]

Physical correction (hitting) of schoolchildren is not longer allowed by law since a couple of years.

The Ministry, responsible for private schools in this area, is located in Laem Chabang.

A refund of fees etc. might be out of the question, because the school management has done its 'best' to solve your problem.

If you take your daughter from the school, then that's your decision.

That's not my opinion, but it might be the reason the school will give for not refunding any money.

[kandahar]

While I understand the legal reason, the story without the name of the school is useless.

Not so useless. He can PM you or anyone else the name of the school if you or they need it.

[johninbkk]

Sorry too easy for the ladyboy after ''whacking' my daughter who is still terrified and that's after an aplolgy at school today from the LB. I understand the Thai way and the loosing face thing but sorry it doesn't work for me. To see the mark on her and her tears a wai is just not enough ......maybe i'm lucky my daughter doesn't wear a gold chain to school ......

I'm sitting here reading your posting on the chain of events and finding it hard to control my anger, don't do what we would all like to do to that misfit, get the child out and just move on. I know these people, not just LB, but all the pathetic creatures living in this city, and I assure you, you'll be the looser. They are such vindictive people, ALL OF THEM. I have a 5 year old daughter and I'm EXTREMELY concerned as to which school so I will contact you direct for more info. This is one of MANY reason that I will take my daughter to Australia to conclude her studies. But we were planning not to move until she is 10 .

Thanks for your lengthy posting as it's of vital importance to all concerned parents. Oh and best of luck, jai yen yen. Don't argue with the wife on this one, I'm sure she's feeling the heat but you know Thai style....hmm!!!...

[kandahar]

OP, I think you're wrong to remove the child from school. In my opinion, you are better off to aggressively pursue the removal of the teacher. If you have had four good years with the place, then there is a lot going on that is right and, by your account, there is ONE thing that went wrong. Fix it. Other parents don't need to learn the hard way that this happening. Protect your child and the rest of the children. Go back to that administrator and let her know you aren't going to drop it. Let her know that the school has a reputation and it is her responsibility to uphold that reputation. If indeed there is a law on the books prohibiting hitting, quote it to her and insist that she perform her duty.

Let your child know that if ANYTHING further happens along these lines, she needs to let you know, whether at this school or anywhere else she goes. Let her know that when these things do happen, it is the responsibility of parents to act and remove the threat, not to run away and face the same thing or worse at another location.

Education begins at home. The schools can teach math and dancing. It is up to you to produce a member of society that values the rights of each person and is willing to stand up for what is right. If we all run away instead of addressing the problems, one day there will be nowhere left to run to.

Fix the problem. If the place is a good school, then you have just helped them to retain the standards that brought you to them in the first place. And your daughter has learned a lesson in how to live life as a responsible adult. Show her and explain to her how it is done and at the same time, show the weak-kneed administrator how it is done.

This is not the last time your daughter will encounter bad behavior from an adult. But it can be the lesson that will stay with her for the rest of her life concerning how to deal with that type of behavior. Let her know that bad things happen and when they do, bad people lose if we don't sit on our hands. She will get over this. We have all had our bad moments as children. The courses of action that our parents took and explained to us is what makes us who we are as adults. Perhaps she will be a manager of people in her adult life. Perhaps she will be an activist that changes the world. Perhaps she will be a stay-at-home mother. Give her the tools now to help her succeed and to be independent. These lesson come to us all of our lives. Use them well.

Edited May 28, 2010 by kandahar

[neilf]

Hi

If this is true, of which i do not doubt you, I would go to teh school and 'whack' the teacher concerned.

I have a 5yo and in anyone som much as laid a finger on her they'd be for it. be a man and get this sorted.

Furthermore, the reason for the whack of 'slow writing' is rubbish. 6 yo cannot and do not write fast, they need to take their time and do things correctly and neatly.

Get down the school and have a 'little chat' with the ladyboy teacher.

any farang who is plain stupid enough to assault a thai of any sexual persuation is going to the monkey house and paying out a lot of money to several parties/risk deportation.

might not apply to well connected wealthy farangs but to shall i say ordinary folks you cannot deal with it in the way you would do in uk----------amazes me that people like you think you are immune from a well established system of how to deal with violent foreigners-----------i would feel the same and would be just as angry as you but the op here has no chance of anything but hassle and to even think about a fees return here in thailand is bordering on insanity

[neilf]

I doubt that it is too late to go to the police and it still might be advisable. The obligation of the school is to protect the students. That does not mean that they cannot protect it's employees by doing a full investigation.

Having been involved in a number of these situations, here's what I have done in the past. First, the teacher is immediately suspended with pay pending an investigation. Suspending without pay would basically be a punishment for an unsubstantiated charge. This means interviewing the students--in a non-threatening and without leading them in any direction. The teacher is also interviewed.

In this case, if the teacher was going to apologize, then it means he is acknowledging that he did whack the student. Most teachers, will acknowledge what they did, but will either justify their actions, minimize it or the argument will center on the amount of 'force' used.

If the incident is serious enough the school needs to discharge the teacher. If the parties involved are amenable to a meeting and work out a solution, then that needs to be done. Parents, the teacher and Administration sit down and resolve the situation in such a way that all are satisfied with the outcome.

I won't get into the other things that are done to assist students who have been traumatized or teachers who might need assistance (or admin who might need to put let pressure on both teachers and students). The point is, everyone needs to know that students are safe and that whatever systemic problems let to the problem are corrected.

i think you are on planet uk not planet real world thailand---------suspend teacher ha ha

[bunta71]

OP, I think you're wrong to remove the child from school. In my opinion, you are better off to aggressively pursue the removal of the teacher. If you have had four good years with the place, then there is a lot going on that is right and, by your account, there is ONE thing that went wrong. Fix it. Other parents don't need to learn the hard way that this happening. Protect your child and the rest of the children. Go back to that administrator and let her know you aren't going to drop it. Let her know that the school has a reputation and it is her responsibility to uphold that reputation. If indeed there is a law on the books prohibiting hitting, quote it to her and insist that she perform her duty.

Let your child know that if ANYTHING further happens along these lines, she needs to let you know, whether at this school or anywhere else she goes. Let her know that when these things do happen, it is the responsibility of parents to act and remove the threat, not to run away and face the same thing or worse at another location.

Education begins at home. The schools can teach math and dancing. It is up to you to produce a member of society that values the rights of each person and is willing to stand up for what is right. If we all run away instead of addressing the problems, one day there will be nowhere left to run to.

Fix the problem. If the place is a good school, then you have just helped them to retain the standards that brought you to them in the first place. And your daughter has learned a lesson in how to live life as a responsible adult. Show her and explain to her how it is done and at the same time, show the weak-kneed administrator how it is done.

This is not the last time your daughter will encounter bad behavior from an adult. But it can be the lesson that will stay with her for the rest of her life concerning how to deal with that type of behavior. Let her know that bad things happen and when they do, bad people lose if we don't sit on our hands. She will get over this. We have all had our bad moments as children. The courses of action that our parents took and explained to us is what makes us who we are as adults. Perhaps she will be a manager of people in her adult life. Perhaps she will be an activist that changes the world. Perhaps she will be a stay-at-home mother. Give her the tools now to help her succeed and to be independent. These lesson come to us all of our lives. Use them well.

Excellent response...took the words right out of my mouth. Sometimes I amaze myself

[haggis66]

OP, I think you're wrong to remove the child from school. In my opinion, you are better off to aggressively pursue the removal of the teacher. If you have had four good years with the place, then there is a lot going on that is right and, by your account, there is ONE thing that went wrong. Fix it. Other parents don't need to learn the hard way that this happening. Protect your child and the rest of the children. Go back to that administrator and let her know you aren't going to drop it. Let her know that the school has a reputation and it is her responsibility to uphold that reputation. If indeed there is a law on the books prohibiting hitting, quote it to her and insist that she perform her duty.

To keep my original post small i could not add all the details. The day after this happened i wrote in the correspondance book my daughter gets back from school each day that there is a need to discuss this issue further and listed 3 views we were looking at 1. Remove teacher. 2. place my daughter in an alternative class during dance period 3. we leave the school. After no response we met with the school owner and went through these options and i asked for the schools ideas which i thought would be good as after all its their best interest to resolve this. The owner had read our suggestions and her ONLY suggestion was to get my daughter and the other girl who's mother complained about the hitting in the dance class corner to watch the other kids dance until they feel comfortable to work with this teacher. We said this is not an option we want to take to have my daughter attend the class where she is clearly scared to death. The teacher could not offer any other suggestions and we did let her know that if we have to move schools it would require possible legal action or further hassle which we wanted to avoid. The owner said she would contact us later that day after talking with the LB ...of course she never did!!

Let your child know that if ANYTHING further happens along these lines, she needs to let you know, whether at this school or anywhere else she goes. Let her know that when these things do happen, it is the responsibility of parents to act and remove the threat, not to run away and face the same thing or worse at another location.

My English teacher did reply in the correspondence book that she told my daughter to contact her if this ever happened again. Not bad but this should never happen again and the only way to avoid it in our view is to have the unqualified ''whacking'' teacher removed or we move schools again for no fault of ours.

Education begins at home. The schools can teach math and dancing. It is up to you to produce a member of society that values the rights of each person and is willing to stand up for what is right. If we all run away instead of addressing the problems, one day there will be nowhere left to run to.

We try hard as parents and i'm proud my daughter gets 95%-98% exam results and all 'A's with the teachers telling us that she is a role model. She's not the hyper screaming type of child and to be honest she's quite the opposite and i don't want her to suffer and be scared of going to school, something she actually enjoys at the moment. I'm not running away but this school owner does not want to compromise moving the LB for the safety of the children then its time to move NOT run away!

Fix the problem. If the place is a good school, then you have just helped them to retain the standards that brought you to them in the first place. And your daughter has learned a lesson in how to live life as a responsible adult. Show her and explain to her how it is done and at the same time, show the weak-kneed administrator how it is done.

This is not the last time your daughter will encounter bad behavior from an adult. But it can be the lesson that will stay with her for the rest of her life concerning how to deal with that type of behavior. Let her know that bad things happen and when they do, bad people lose if we don't sit on our hands. She will get over this. We have all had our bad moments as children. The courses of action that our parents took and explained to us is what makes us who we are as adults. Perhaps she will be a manager of people in her adult life. Perhaps she will be an activist that changes the world. Perhaps she will be a stay-at-home mother. Give her the tools now to help her succeed and to be independent. These lesson come to us all of our lives. Use them well.''

[somtampet]

Get all the parents together and get all the stories of any child abuse and then you have got more power to confront the police/teachers etc etc.

Not a big fan of ladyboys but <deleted> calm down and stop calling them vile creatures,as some female teachers are capable of smacking a kid with a stick.Get things into perspective and get to the bottom of this situation rationaly and forget the posters who say kill the ladyboy,pretty pathetic realy

The child has been smacke,once,maybe,and you need to get this sorted asap as it IS ILLEGAL in Thailand,the same as it IS ILLEGAL to smack a teacher.

If my stepson had been hit by a ruler/stick on his neck then i would see red,and would try my upmost to resolve the problem without a witch hunt for ladyboys.

Anyway good luck and get all the abused kids together with parents and ask their views,calmly and collectively,if that fails i have a good line in an AK47