Thai Policemen Use Curfew To Extort Money

[Rucharee]

A bit old now and sure their skills have improved over time, but...

He was just counting how much he managed to steal from his wife's cookie jar that morning.

Nothing wrong with that is there?

hahahah

[YouYouYou]

Really ! Policemen in Thailand extorting money !!!

So, along with this story, Thai Visa could open a new forum dedicated to policemen and their tea money ...it would contain hourly threads LOL.

Maybe you could call it 'Jon Nay Khruang Beep' 'Thieves in uniforms'

[marvinberry]

I got stopped at a the tollway near Sukhumvit as I was driving back to Bangkok from Laos. I had no choice but to arrive in BKK at night due to an appointment the next day.

Police pulled me over to the side of the road after having paid the toll and kept saying "curfew..curfew" to me.

I explained my situation.

"Curfew...curfew".

So he asked for 400 Baht. He wouldn't negotiate to 200, sadly.

Yeah I was pissed off but it was only 400 Baht and better than going down the station. At the end of the day I was in the wrong and I got away from any bother with a minimal pay-off.

[jayjay0]

Fortunately (or unfortunately?) we have the military to protect us from the terrorists - since the Police are probably a big part of their organization. Time for Abhisit to institute complete Police Reform. All "Police Generals" should immediately be RIF'ed, and an independent investigative body with powers to detain, question, and arrest, should be created. Put a beat down on the money grubbers.

That being said - I would also increase the wage scale for policemen, and fund more for standard equipment, so police can afford to live a decent live, using good equipment that they don't have to purchase themselves.

Perhaps my common sense is just pissing in the wind, but that is what I'd do lol.

I could be wrong but. It seems to me that if they would concentrate on the upper echelon of the crooked police force get it more honest they in turn could make the needed changes in the lower echelon quicker than trying to get the whole system honest or as honest as can be all at once.

Don't really know about pay. If starting wages are 10,000 plus 45% of fines that seems pretty good for Thailand. Let us not forget they do not have to go to collage for four years to get these jobs. Perhaps changing the entrance qualifications would also help.

Defiantly they should be supplied with all there equipment and not have to purchase it.

[mazeltov]

If the brave soldier would have shot and killed them, some would argue its the deads fault, they violated the curfew.

Still better to pay 500 baht and go home, instead of getting arrested and put away for a half year without a trail under SoE laws.

[animatic]

What's new "brown shirts" "red shirts" they are one and the same!

Just one shovels the compost, and one is it...

[BWPattaya]

I wonder - how many people on Thaivisa have not been asked by a policeman for a payment?

In eleven years I have never been asked. I have been stopped for speeding and told to go away and behave myself, with a smile on his face. Another time I was stopped and the officer finished up looking at a map with me and practising English.

I also wonder how many people complain about corruption yet are happy to use the system when it suits them. For example, deliberately break the curfew then bribe an officer rather than go to the police station overnight. Eaier to pay 200 Bt than wear a helmet when riding.

I know someone will reply to this post but before anyone says that I am condoning corruption read this post carefully. I do not condone it, I am merely saying that I have never been asked, and those who complain may be happy to pay than go through a lot of bureaucratic hoops.

[Bakseedaa]

I'm sure it happens but you can't say all police are like this. That's like saying all foreign men in Thailand are sexpats.

And....! what other reason is there for a Farang man to be here .. if the shoe fits...

[mazeltov]

I wonder - how many people on Thaivisa have not been asked by a policeman for a payment?

In eleven years I have never been asked. I have been stopped for speeding and told to go away and behave myself, with a smile on his face. Another time I was stopped and the officer finished up looking at a map with me and practising English.

I also wonder how many people complain about corruption yet are happy to use the system when it suits them. For example, deliberately break the curfew then bribe an officer rather than go to the police station overnight. Eaier to pay 200 Bt than wear a helmet when riding.

I know someone will reply to this post but before anyone says that I am condoning corruption read this post carefully. I do not condone it, I am merely saying that I have never been asked, and those who complain may be happy to pay than go through a lot of bureaucratic hoops.

same here.

[selftaopath]

For sure not all police are like that but I never met one . With their little salary no wonder they need to have extra cash .

Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. What "exactly" do they do for "their money"? I heard they tampered with electronically timed traffic lights so they would not work.

How about Thai teachers or people working in hospitals? Do they make a DECENT wage? I know nurse aids in BKK hospitals who work 80+ hours a week - every week- and receive a salary of Bt 7000. Oh and BTW these hospitals DEMAND a mininum of 64 hours per week to be worked. And that's not suggested it is DEMANDED.

hel_l when the sun goes down or there's YET another holiday where are the Bloody Incompetent Bafoons (BIB)??????

Please give me a break will ya. For what they do I'd say they might be OVER PAID. And for the destruction they cause to the Thai society I'd say they OWE money.

GEEZE.

[dundee007]

For sure not all police are like that but I never met one . With their little salary no wonder they need to have extra cash .

Being poor is no excuse to steal. There are tens of millions of poor Thais who are honest and live respectable, law abiding lives. Police using the authority of their position to extort are scum of the earth. Please make no excuses for them.

agree 110%.......

[alex_aka_P]

Please give me a break will ya. For what they do I'd say they might be OVER PAID. And for the destruction they cause to the Thai society I'd say they OWE money.

GEEZE.

Agreed here.

I (as an employer) could say even more: they are paid nor NOTHING AT ALL. I can count many cases where I need their legal support, but they FAILED to do their direct jobs. In all and every case I can count.

But even my part of paid tax is coming to them, not only my bribes. :D

Edited June 2, 2010 by alex_aka_P

[ScubaBuddha]

I'm sure it happens but you can't say all police are like this. That's like saying all foreign men in Thailand are sexpats.

I'm not so sure that is true. The collecting of "tea money" by the police, or really anyone in a position of power, is a deeply entrenched phenomenon here due to the patronage system.

Most Thai's know the story of the Thai Serpico who spent his career in law enforcement/government and never engaged in bribery or other nefarious business practices. His family have shunned him for not using his power to increase his personal wealth. As the story goes, he lives alone in a small shack now, having been disowned by his family.

The RTP are a wholly corrupt entity with very little interest in public safety or service. Just try to get one to investigate a crime against you. You are required to pay them for their services. It comes as no surprise to those of us living here the UN considers them simply organized criminals.

Hong Kong, China — According to the United Nations, the Royal Thai Police are organized criminals.

That, at least, is the inference to be drawn from looking at its Convention against Transnational Organized Crime, which was adopted in 2001 and which defines an organized crime group as involving at least three people acting in concert over a period of time "with the aim of committing one or more serious crimes or offences… in order to obtain… a financial or other material benefit."

It would be hard to overstate the extent to which Thailand's police fit this definition. A browse through a few newspapers of recent weeks alone reveals as much.

In February there was the case of the border patrol unit that abducted and tortured people to extract money and force them to confess to narcotics charges. So far over 100 complaints have been lodged against it, the majority from persons serving jail terms, and also one policeman. Although the low-ranking officers involved have surrendered, investigators have reportedly said that there is no evidence to link their wrongdoing to their superiors.

Then was the car scam, which came unstuck when a victim of theft went to police headquarters to file a complaint and found his vehicle sitting in the parking lot: not impounded, being used by personnel.

The police had colluded with rental companies to steal perhaps over 1,000 new automobiles by fraud. So far, only a few of the cars have been recovered. Many will have been sold into Cambodia and Burma. The operation apparently stretched over a wide area and involved police from various units, including Special Branch and cyber crime. Senior officers have already sought to exonerate some, saying that they will face only internal, not criminal, inquiries. The hire company directors have been arrested.

Similarly, 21 police forensics staff accused of taking money for the cost of formalin that was never administered have been let off the hook and three civilian employees blamed in their stead. Joking about this case, cartoonist Chai Rachawat wrote in the Thai Rath newspaper that it is anyhow better for police to steal from the dead than from the living: his picture depicts some skeletons standing in coffins and yelling as a policeman makes off with the loot.

Aside from these incidents, police have been implicated in a number of recent killings: some execution-style, another in which a leading forensic scientist has said that their account of what happened does not match the evidence. Torture and other abuses meanwhile go on as normal.

Thailand's police did not become an organized crime gang by accident. The modern force was from the beginning intended both as a criminal and political agency, monopolizing the drug trade and murdering or detaining opponents, including other police. It quickly became unstoppable as, historian Thak Chaloemtiara notes, while people whispered about its crimes "investigation was impossible, for the crimes were committed by the police themselves."

Its heyday as an unsurpassed crime venture may have been in the 1950s, but until now the police force remains beyond the law and answerable unto itself. The institutional features of its criminality, including the routine use of force and self-financing of individual officers and stations, speak to how incidents of the sort described above are organized, not haphazard.

These conditions present persons interested in improving the work of the police with profound and peculiar difficulties. For some three decades there has been talk of reform, and a few attempts, including one by the interim prime minister of the recent military government. But all have failed, in the same way that attempts to turn any other organized crime group into a legitimate enterprise against the will of its members could not possibly do otherwise.

But had any attempts at reforming the Royal Thai Police succeeded, would it really have made any difference? Wouldn't a reformed organized crime group remain what it is at its roots? How different are reformed organized criminals from their unreformed counterparts?

These questions could be cause for despair. After all, if things are that bad, then why bother? There are indeed many who think in this way, and do not believe that the police in Thailand can ever be significantly changed. Unsurprisingly, when this sort of thinking becomes widespread, it guarantees that things go on as usual. Without hope that anything can be done about the police, nothing can.

On the other hand, pretending that things aren't as bad as they really are also ensures that things go on as usual. It allows people to fool themselves into thinking that a few quick fixes, like decentralizing and better training, may result in improvements. Superficially, they might. But anybody who looks honestly and seriously at the work of the police in Thailand for long enough will be obliged to acknowledge that it will take much more than this.

That's why the U.N. definition is helpful. Let's be honest and describe Thailand's police as they are: organized criminals in uniform. If this much can be admitted, then it might be possible to get down to the business of what to do about them.

Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2006 describes police corruption as "widespread" (US 6 Mar. 2007, Sec. 1.d) and two human rights organizations state the Thai police is "highly corrupt" (ALRC Mar. 2005, Para. 13) or "thoroughly corrupt" (AHRC 14 Dec. 2006). Similarly, the Bangkok Post states that police corruption is one of the "fundamental problems" with regard to the Thai police (14 Dec. 2006) while The Nation describes the national police force as "corruption-prone" (19 Nov. 2006). According to The Nation, a Bangkok-based independent newspaper, law enforcement is perceived as one of the most corrupt government entities in Thailand (10 July 2007). Transparency International's (TI) Global Corruption Barometer 2007, a survey assessing the public's perceptions and experience of corruption in 60 countries, states that, for Thailand, the police received a rating of four out of five, where one represents "not at all corrupt" and five represents "extremely corrupt" (6 Dec. 2007, 22).

Freedom House reports that many authorities, including police officers, are involved in human trafficking or will ignore the problem on payment of bribes (2007). Similarly, Country Reports 2006 states that police were "involved in trafficking directly or took bribes to ignore it" (US 6 Mar. 2007, Sec. 5). The Bangkok Post indicates that "forced disappearances, torture and extortion have become the main tools used by the police to extract confessions and distort justice in favour of those who pay" and that many police officers accept bribes, resort to extortion and work for "gangsters" as their salaries are insufficient to support their families (5 July 2007). Similarly, The Nation indicates that many police officers engage in corrupt practices to supplement their income such as taking bribes to "turn a blind eye to petty crime" and that other police officers are sometimes hired by politicians to "intimidate rivals or bribe them to avoid court action over illegal activities" (19 Nov. 2006). The Nation expresses the opinion that even though part of the problem is the low salaries of police officers, police corruption is rooted in the patronage system which is entrenched in society and therefore, increasing police officers' wages would not solve the problem (19 Nov. 2006). Media sources indicate that politicians have a history of using the police force to advance their political interests (ibid. 10 July 2007; Bangkok Post 5 July 2007).

Specific examples

The Bangkok Post reports that in September 2007, 21 highway police officers were transferred to inactive positions following allegations of bribery; the Land Transportation Federation had lodged a complaint alleging that highway police officers were issuing stickers as proof of bribe payments which were paid to avoid highway regulations such as carrying a load over the official weight limit (20 Sept. 2007). Similarly, The Nation indicates that investigations have been started following complaints from motorists of illegal tolls set up by traffic police (17 Feb. 2006). Fourteen places have been identified where such illegal tolls are set up by police officers including Vibhavadi-Rangsit, Rama IV, Kanchanapisek, Phaholyothin, Rachapreuk, Soi Charan Sanitwong 13, Tripetch, Ngarmwongwan, Sathorn Nua and Phetburi roads as well as the Surawong and Urupong intersections (The Nation 17 Feb. 2006).

Amnesty International (AI) reports that a police officer was found guilty in January 2006 of "coercing" a Muslim human rights lawyer (who has been missing ever since) into his car (2007). However, Freedom House states that the same police officer was charged and convicted of murder (2007). Even though the police officer was sentenced to three years' imprisonment, he was released and resumed his functions as a police officer (AI 2007).

reference: http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,QU...7d6547dc,0.html

Edited June 2, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[alex_aka_P]

Actually all the people that pay the "tea money" including myself are just as bad as the bib because if we all said no then they would have to come up with another way to make some extra money, but it is better to pay 200 Baht instead of 500 Baht, simple ecconomics I guess.

Well, now think this: how many wanted criminals and the real terrorists were [accidentally] catched, but fined 200/500 baht and than just peacefullly released - instead of being delivered to the police station for a future investigation which could reveal...mmm.....manything more than just a disrespect the traffic light or curfew time?

Thus what is the MEANING of police blocks/checks while this all is still active and widely used (and even confirmed by a high-rank police commander as written at the first post)?? The answer is simple: there is NO true meaning of fighting the offenders, but the hidden meaning to personally enrich the blockers/checkers who wear uniforms.

[toenail]

...I think the name "police" does not suit them, rename them the "thugs in brown". The BKK Thais need to start a public campaign in demanding accountabiltiy for these "thugs in brown" by placing articles in the local newspapers...and taking more photos of the dishonest ones and submitting them on a website. If the government isn't going to hold these guys responsible, I think with modern technology the BKK citizens can.

[Bagwan]

Actually all the people that pay the "tea money" including myself are just as bad as the bib because if we all said no then they would have to come up with another way to make some extra money, but it is better to pay 200 Baht instead of 500 Baht, simple ecconomics I guess. One one occassion I did call there bluff and insissted that they take me to the police station and I would pay the fine, they just gave my license back and told me to go.

If stopped I consider the situation. If I was speeding, or whatever, I'll try a little negotiation which is usually successful. That in my view is probably corruption; I say probably since I cannot actually swear that the money is pocketed. I can just about live with parting with a few baht, comforting myself that I am just following a strange local custom.

If I consider that I have done nothing wrong I refuse to pay since that is, again in my view, extortion. If threatened with a visit to the police station I say that I am happy to go with them since I will be making an official complaint. I also point out that they will be making themselves very unpopular with their Colonel since he, or one of his minions, have sent them out to collect money with the minimum of fuss, not generate reams of paperwork. I remind them that the 'big boss' of whom the ordinary copper is scared sh*tless, may well bear down on P.C. Plod for attracting unwanted publicity. Works every time - so far.

Plodding around Pattaya I am fairly relaxed but on a trip I secret the big money under the carpet so that I have just a few baht in my wallet. Only a matter of time before BiB join the 20th century and accept VISA or AMEX.

[alex_aka_P]

there is NO true meaning of fighting the offenders, but the hidden meaning to personally enrich the blockers/checkers who wear uniforms.

...and they will do EVERYTHING to keep this hidden meaning rolling, but not to enforce the law [which prohibits them to enrich themselves, BTW]. Thus, the Police Force reform in this country will be very big and painful process.

Currently I see noone at the Thai political scene who's technically able to reform it - and keep his position and [perhaps] his life. Road accidents (or whatever else but fatal) are very common here...we all know what I meant, dont we?

[Crushdepth]

Police behaviour during the riots has flushed their reputation down the toilet to depths that were previously unimaginable.

[LikeHeat]

For sure not all police are like that but I never met one . With their little salary no wonder they need to have extra cash .

Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. What "exactly" do they do for "their money"? I heard they tampered with electronically timed traffic lights so they would not work.

How about Thai teachers or people working in hospitals? Do they make a DECENT wage? I know nurse aids in BKK hospitals who work 80+ hours a week - every week- and receive a salary of Bt 7000. Oh and BTW these hospitals DEMAND a mininum of 64 hours per week to be worked. And that's not suggested it is DEMANDED.

hel_l when the sun goes down or there's YET another holiday where are the Bloody Incompetent Bafoons (BIB)??????

Please give me a break will ya. For what they do I'd say they might be OVER PAID. And for the destruction they cause to the Thai society I'd say they OWE money.

GEEZE.

To have as strong as opinion as you seem to have, I would expect you to have personal experiences and not be so upset over second hand allegations. I'm not sure if you know much about traffic lights, but I expect that it would be beyond most people to tamper with them.

I'm sorry about the situation with your medical friends, but it has nothing to do with the police.

I have never had a negative run in with them. Any time I have presented a problem to them, they were most interested in dealing with it. One time some friends were majorly ripped off by some beach vendors, and the local police took care of it swiftly and to the satisfaction of all concerned (except of course the vendors). I am not "connected" just a normal guy and they had no real reason to assist, but they did.

If you judge things based on info from others you might not be getting the whole story (imagine that), and maybe are getting all worked up for nothing.

[Insight]

Police behaviour during the riots has flushed their reputation down the toilet to depths that were previously unimaginable.

Agreed.

[alex_aka_P]

Police behaviour during the riots has flushed their reputation down

Did they earlier have any?

Pls consult to the nearest thai person around you.

[neverdie]

Ohhh goodie another thai police bashing thread

[Rucharee]

I wonder - how many people on Thaivisa have not been asked by a policeman for a payment?

In eleven years I have never been asked. I have been stopped for speeding and told to go away and behave myself, with a smile on his face. Another time I was stopped and the officer finished up looking at a map with me and practising English.

I also wonder how many people complain about corruption yet are happy to use the system when it suits them. For example, deliberately break the curfew then bribe an officer rather than go to the police station overnight. Eaier to pay 200 Bt than wear a helmet when riding.

I know someone will reply to this post but before anyone says that I am condoning corruption read this post carefully. I do not condone it, I am merely saying that I have never been asked, and those who complain may be happy to pay than go through a lot of bureaucratic hoops.

You must be the police office who is here practicing English with Farang of ThaiVisa.

[junglist]

Police behaviour during the riots has flushed their reputation down the toilet to depths that were previously unimaginable.

Agreed.

it was there before the riots now its in the sewer...

[GungaDin]

The Thai Military are far from perfect but it's the only arm of the gov't that I trust.

[rkidlad]

Corrruption is 100% wrong. The corruption in Thailand is extremely short-sighted amongst many other things here.

If you're caught speeding then you should be forced to go to the police station to pay the 500 Baht. You should be penalised also. The more people paying 500 Baht, the more money that can be invested back into the police force (in a productive way)

Once people are put off by paying 500 Baht and having points on their licenses, they'll think twice about speeding. A speeding driver is more likely to have an accident and hurt or kill someone. This costs the state money. Car accidents are a real drain financially and emotianally on the state and cause thousands of deaths every year.

Win, win.

Edited June 2, 2010 by rkidlad

[Eurod]

I'm sure it happens but you can't say all police are like this. That's like saying all foreign men in Thailand are sexpats.

"You are sure it happens" suggesting that you dont believe it Do you live under a rock ? I serriously wonder why they bother having a Police farce in Thailand...( oh yes.. to collect the tea money and allow crime to go unhindered)

[bangon04]

For sure not all police are like that but I never met one . With their little salary no wonder they need to have extra cash .

small salary is not an excuse.. if the moneys not good enough, find a better job. a policemans duty to to protect and serve and uphold the law.. period...

Exacty - otherwise as an underpaid teacher, for example, i would be fully justified in demanding money from students in order for me to allow them to pass their exams.... .

I do however think that the state should purchase basic police equipment - like the gun, so that as a state purchase, the gun is and (should) remains the property of the state, long after the person has finished being a copper. It would i imagine make ballistics tracing a bit easier if the state had a records of the guns in its arse(nel), rather than coppers with random purchased guns wandering the streets.

But back to the OP - what can you say except that if Thai folks tolerate being treated like this, then i have little sympathy for them. If they want it to change, they (as a population) need to get off their backsides and demand change and realize that they have the power to expediate that change, however many can't be arsed.

"He said complaints can be filed at the Metropolitan Police Bureau's Operation Centre by calling (02) 280 3196, and the cases would be duly investigated.

So far, the operation centre has said there have been no such cases filed."

[Randee]

For sure not all police are like that but I never met one . With their little salary no wonder they need to have extra cash .

Being poor is no excuse to steal. There are tens of millions of poor Thais who are honest and live respectable, law abiding lives. Police using the authority of their position to extort are scum of the earth. Please make no excuses for them.

Agree

thirded

i know of one honest BIB up in CM working around the markets, alot of thais even mention his honesty

I broke the curfew on several occassions.

On one occassion I was stopped by a police check point of 3 police.

It was 2am and I was in a taxi.

When they saw I was a Farang he just smiled warmly and bid me on my way with no questions asked.

So they are not all bad. Maybe its rare and I was lucky but there are some good ones.

[Javabear]

I've had a few dealings with the police in eastern Thailand...all good. The corruption workes both ways. Either you pay to get out of something or you pay to get something done for you. Same same, not different.