Second Crop Advice

[nellyp]

Hi all. 1st an apology if I am rehashing old ground. I have done some research but need more specific advice that is up to date. it is also long but i want you to get the whole picture.

Basically, me and my wife want to move back to Thailand with our 2 sons (5 and 5 months). I am in a dead end job I hate, my wife is about to go back to work and doesn't like her work either, I am fed up of the British rat race and want to come back to do farming. I have no experience of farming but have helped out on the farm planting etc and now own a small bit of land (15 rai) in Bann Tai near utumporn pisai (spelling probably way off) my wife's family obviously have farmed for years and I have their knowledge to fall back on. I also have f another 7 rai which is land with trees in it but is used for rice. I lived in Thailand for a few years up to 5 years ago and was an English teacher. I have no degree though so believe it would be difficult for me to get another job teaching. i love the quitet remotness of the farm though not living on top of the relatives. We also own a large Thai house that with a few thousand pounds would be really nice. I have a couple of questions to ask.

1/ the land on the farm is apparently first rate though I do not know its composition, they are currently getting around 500 kilo per rai. On the wet season there is plenty of water but it is very dry in the dry season and water drains away. Irrigation would be near impossible to grow rice in the dry season on all 15 rai. i am interested in second crops though. is there anything I can grow in dry conditions so I could get a second crop? we have pond that is about 20 meteres square that has water through most of the dry season, and is about 3 metres deep that could be used to irrigate a few rai. We are thinking about either water melon, peanuts or maybe mung bean. I am also trying to research the SRI method to see if I could grow rice on this land as I understand it requires much less water. We intend to rent machines for the planting and harvesting. The 7 rai with the trees can be used for 2 crops as we can irrigate from the river next to the land. Again i am looking at SRI for that. Any input on these points would be appeiciated. There is also another 33 rai in the area with the trees i could use, but that actually belongs to the family rather than ourselves and if i farmed this it would mean me subsidising the rest of the family (another 6 mouths) so i don't know if this would be worth it.

2/ My visa....I could put the 800,000 baht into the bank and leave it there to use for a retirement visa but obviously this would be usefull to me in other areas, how else could i stay in Thailand indefinately. I believe that i can only keep doing visa runs for a certain amount of time. i also have 2 sons with british passports, how would i manage with them. could they get duel nationality? or would I have to get their visas stamped all the time?

3/ House...my wife is under the impression that she can get a bungalow built for 200,000 baht which seems really cheap. We do have the land aleady for this in a separate village on the main road so we would not need to buy land. would we be better off building a thai style house? I can afford more than this but need the extra money to buy other things. I have done research on this but cannot find up to date costs. i would need a house with water and electricity fed to it from the main road also a western style toilet, but nothing much else ( maybe satalite tv for me while women natter) The house we already have I am thinking of giving to the family rather than living with them.

4/ Money....I have about 1,000,000 to buy land (I may be able to get 40 rai for this, though further from the village) I could put 800,000 aside for my retirement visa. i also need a property as i really don't want to live with all the family. This would leave me with about another 1,000,000 baht to buy a pickup and tools (though we already have some on the farm. Do you think i could start with this kind of money?

5/ Working profit My wife intends to work and I believe would earn around 7,000baht per month, i believe I would make a profit of around 75,000 with one crop ( so more land obviously the more land the more profit from that)

I have worked this out thus 500 kilo per rai x15 rai x 15 baht per kilo=112,500- [(600/rai seeding+600/rai harvesting) x 15 rai =18,000)=94,000

94,000 - 8,000 seeds -9,000 fertilizer = 77,000 per year profit plus wifes 84,000 makes a total of 161,000. This is probably wrong but is figures I have been given by the family and off this site. We hope we can live off this for a while what do you think?

6/ teaching.....as i mentioned I have taught in the past in Thaialnd and have a tefl cert but no degree. Do you think I could get a teaching post in an area like utomporn pisai with a work permit or do you think it would be possible to do private tutoring off my own back, and what ramifications could this really have?

Sorry about the lenght of this but I wanted an overall picture for everyone to give me some ideas and help. One final thing I am also qualified in mortgage and insurance advice, would this be of any use to me in Tailand and how much would health insurance cost for a 47 year old bloke and his family. plus life insurance. Thanks for any help you may give and cherry pick what questions you answer

[slapout]

Two children to educate (British citizens), 2,800,000 baht to invest in land, house, crop expenses, living expense, transport, maintain visa monies,etc, etc. I will not say impossible, but 40 rai (for 1,000,000baht doubtful) will not feed the family much less support it.(based on 1 wet season crop). I would recommend staying/working where you are until you can get monthly pension to support your lifestyle in Thailand. Keep adding to your nest egg to build house, buy land, buy transport, buy farm machinery/expendables, etc (5 to 6,000,000 baht), then hope inflation will not dictate both of you going to work to take care of everyone of concern to both of you.

30 rai with 18 rai producing 3 crop/year will be hard pressed to pay International school fees for 2 children. The rice production is about 1000 kilo/rai with potatoes and various veggies as 2nd and 3rd crops.

[gotlost]

You need to submit separate question to differents forms for better response. Your visa questions should be sent to the Thai Visa and residency form. Farming question to the Farming form and House to the Real Estate Form. Now that said with only about 3 million baht to play with DO NOT GO DOWN THIS ROAD.

[nellyp]

Two children to educate (British citizens), 2,800,000 baht to invest in land, house, crop expenses, living expense, transport, maintain visa monies,etc, etc. I will not say impossible, but 40 rai (for 1,000,000baht doubtful) will not feed the family much less support it.(based on 1 wet season crop). I would recommend staying/working where you are until you can get monthly pension to support your lifestyle in Thailand. Keep adding to your nest egg to build house, buy land, buy transport, buy farm machinery/expendables, etc (5 to 6,000,000 baht), then hope inflation will not dictate both of you going to work to take care of everyone of concern to both of you.

30 rai with 18 rai producing 3 crop/year will be hard pressed to pay International school fees for 2 children. The rice production is about 1000 kilo/rai with potatoes and various veggies as 2nd and 3rd crops.

Thanks for this, I can see the concern and appreciate it. I already have 15 rai of my own and have another 40 we could farm that is being given by the family, the extra 40 rai that we hope to purchase will be from the same source as my wife's best friend's father has just bought from and he paid 1,000,000 baht for it. we would have in total then 95 rai 40 of which we could have a second (maybe 3rd crop) with as it is next to a river and should be able to irrigate, we may also be able to irrigate from the pond to grow a second crop on the other land but I'm not too sure how much land I could irrigate. I suppose i could live in the house we already have but don't want to, hence trying to build a cheap thai style house. my wife has no intention of sending the kids to international school and they would start in a thai school till we could do different either tutor or private. I am thinking i will need to have an income as well though so will need to think that through.

Thanks again

Edited June 2, 2010 by nellyp

[pnustedt]

We own land/small house just south of Utumphon and our main house is in Sisaket. I don't think you would make enough from farming plus your wife's income to support you and your family here. In Sisaket English teaching jobs with a "qualification" pay about Bt30K/month plus any private tutoring you may get. I would have thought that was your best bet if you really want to move here. Get the Thais to do the farm work (strictly speaking you are not supposed to do it anyway).

You only need Bt400K in the bank for a marriage visa, if you work you will need a work permit which the school will help you with. You should also get cheap or free education for your kids in the school you teach at. As has already been suggested, ask about visas in the appropriate section and you should get a more informed response.

You may be able to build a bungalow for Bt200K but I wouldn't want to live in it. You are budgetting to buy land at Bt25K/rai, you will not find good rice land at that price here, think nearer Bt40K/rai. Your budgeted income of Bt75K from 15 rai of rice land is too optimistic, think more like Bt50K-60K.

Considering the low cost of medical care here, the cost of medical insurance is very high. If you can keep a large cash float you may be best off self-insuring.

I do make enough income to live off farming, but I bought a large investment with me. The only way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to bring a large amount with you!

[nellyp]

We own land/small house just south of Utumphon and our main house is in Sisaket. I don't think you would make enough from farming plus your wife's income to support you and your family here. In Sisaket English teaching jobs with a "qualification" pay about Bt30K/month plus any private tutoring you may get. I would have thought that was your best bet if you really want to move here. Get the Thais to do the farm work (strictly speaking you are not supposed to do it anyway).

You only need Bt400K in the bank for a marriage visa, if you work you will need a work permit which the school will help you with. You should also get cheap or free education for your kids in the school you teach at. As has already been suggested, ask about visas in the appropriate section and you should get a more informed response.

You may be able to build a bungalow for Bt200K but I wouldn't want to live in it. You are budgetting to buy land at Bt25K/rai, you will not find good rice land at that price here, think nearer Bt40K/rai. Your budgeted income of Bt75K from 15 rai of rice land is too optimistic, think more like Bt50K-60K.

Considering the low cost of medical care here, the cost of medical insurance is very high. If you can keep a large cash float you may be best off self-insuring.

I do make enough income to live off farming, but I bought a large investment with me. The only way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to bring a large amount with you!

Thanks for this. I now believe I will need to teach to feel secure with my family. I have already had 2 schools email me about interviews but this is too quick for me at the moment, though it does show I should be able to get work. I never intended working the land myself and am a bit dissapointed to learn I will only make 50/60k per rai. i have been in correspondence with another member on here though and believe I could get at least 2 crops off land i can farm that is 40 rai of good land by the side of a river, i may even be able to get 3 crops from it.

the schools that have been in touch with will provide me with a WP and help with a visa, and will also re-imberse me any money I spend on them. my wife is insistant the land is good land and did cost 1,000,000baht for 40 rai. She has now told me that the cost is less because he has to go through somebody elses land to get to it (God knows what chaos that will cause) I suppose i am going to have to see what others grow as second crops though, i have been advised to grow what ever has the high cost at the time as i may be able to grow lots of things if i irrigate in the dry season and will just need to control water feed.

I really do noy know what to do about a house as i will need to be closer to a big town or city to teach so I may rent a house till I have decided ( this will also make it easier for my wife to find a better (read higher paid) job. She used to work for the language school i worked for and also has accounting quals thoug did not finish university just college. But her English is good and also her administrative skills.

Thanks for the advice. Who knows we may even meet one day

Neil

[OOTAI]

We own land/small house just south of Utumphon and our main house is in Sisaket. I don't think you would make enough from farming plus your wife's income to support you and your family here. In Sisaket English teaching jobs with a "qualification" pay about Bt30K/month plus any private tutoring you may get. I would have thought that was your best bet if you really want to move here. Get the Thais to do the farm work (strictly speaking you are not supposed to do it anyway).

You only need Bt400K in the bank for a marriage visa, if you work you will need a work permit which the school will help you with. You should also get cheap or free education for your kids in the school you teach at. As has already been suggested, ask about visas in the appropriate section and you should get a more informed response.

You may be able to build a bungalow for Bt200K but I wouldn't want to live in it. You are budgetting to buy land at Bt25K/rai, you will not find good rice land at that price here, think nearer Bt40K/rai. Your budgeted income of Bt75K from 15 rai of rice land is too optimistic, think more like Bt50K-60K.

Considering the low cost of medical care here, the cost of medical insurance is very high. If you can keep a large cash float you may be best off self-insuring.

I do make enough income to live off farming, but I bought a large investment with me. The only way to make a small amount of money in Thailand is to bring a large amount with you!

Thanks for this. I now believe I will need to teach to feel secure with my family. I have already had 2 schools email me about interviews but this is too quick for me at the moment, though it does show I should be able to get work. I never intended working the land myself and am a bit dissapointed to learn I will only make 50/60k per rai. i have been in correspondence with another member on here though and believe I could get at least 2 crops off land i can farm that is 40 rai of good land by the side of a river, i may even be able to get 3 crops from it.

the schools that have been in touch with will provide me with a WP and help with a visa, and will also re-imberse me any money I spend on them. my wife is insistant the land is good land and did cost 1,000,000baht for 40 rai. She has now told me that the cost is less because he has to go through somebody elses land to get to it (God knows what chaos that will cause) I suppose i am going to have to see what others grow as second crops though, i have been advised to grow what ever has the high cost at the time as i may be able to grow lots of things if i irrigate in the dry season and will just need to control water feed.

I really do noy know what to do about a house as i will need to be closer to a big town or city to teach so I may rent a house till I have decided ( this will also make it easier for my wife to find a better (read higher paid) job. She used to work for the language school i worked for and also has accounting quals thoug did not finish university just college. But her English is good and also her administrative skills.

Thanks for the advice. Who knows we may even meet one day

Neil

I think you need to re-read pnustedt's post. He said you may get 50-60K return from 15 rai not per rai, so that is 4K per rai!

As for the access to the land through someone else's land, its OK until you have a disagreement.

Good luck for the future

If what you want is to live in Thailand go for it, if you wait until you have removed all the risks you'll never do it.

[nellyp]

Oopps, i do understand that it would be for 15 rai, but if I can get a couple of crops a year off some of the land and can farm all the land i may get access to i think this could work if all the income is taken into account (15 rai we have, maybe buy another 30, plus the 40 rai by the river)plus my wages and my wife's we could be fine. I do worry that it is suddenly a lot of land to organise especially if we experiment with a second crop and the irrigation of 20 rai. Still it looks better the more research I do. I've even had quotes for shipping my furniture etc and have a valuer coming to value my house for letting or sale. i just reread this and noticed all the ifs.....ahhh well

[IsaanAussie]

Nellyp,

There is a saying about the best laid plans of mice and men going awry. Sods Law or Murphy's Law tell if something can go wrong it will. But if I lived in an insulated, risk free box I think I would go crazy. You certainly seem keen enough to take a crack at it.

To add my two bobs worth I can tell you that poor planning will yield poor performance. I arrived here 11 years ago in a well paid job and have been planning an early retirement to farming here for the last eight years or so. With the economic crash of 2008 timed to perfection I retired on the worst day possible, so an adequate start turned into a total rethink of my detailed plans. It has been and remains, a battle.

I took the view that returns from farming would be difficult enough, but to achieve any profit, most of my remaining capital had to be assigned in investing in income generation. Plans for our house are gathering dust, I settled for extending the existing family home and establishing a small shop. The rest is funding the establishment of our pig farm. Our farm land is still only growing it's usual rain fed rice crop, with returns as PN describes.

I have three suggestions for you. First, I do not know how old your kids are, but I would want to be absolutely certain they were well informed about what their life here would be like and were as eager as you to come. Secondly, You have a house already, use that until you get re-established here. Build a decent western style bathroom and clean up the rest, if possible before you come "permanently". Thirdly hold onto as much cash as you can. Use your land and that available to try out your farming plans before thinking about buying more. My experience is that you will hit resistance from Nay-Sayers amongst the people who will usually work your land and as carefully as you plan and describe what is needed to be done, it will prove a challenge to achieve it. The tirades of absentee owners, especially western ones, may well leave your land without a workforce at all.

Whatever you do, don't lose sight of your dreams nor those of your wife and kids. Just be cautious about jumping in the deep end with a cheap life jacket.

Isaanaussie

[nellyp]

Nellyp,

There is a saying about the best laid plans of mice and men going awry. Sods Law or Murphy's Law tell if something can go wrong it will. But if I lived in an insulated, risk free box I think I would go crazy. You certainly seem keen enough to take a crack at it.

To add my two bobs worth I can tell you that poor planning will yield poor performance. I arrived here 11 years ago in a well paid job and have been planning an early retirement to farming here for the last eight years or so. With the economic crash of 2008 timed to perfection I retired on the worst day possible, so an adequate start turned into a total rethink of my detailed plans. It has been and remains, a battle.

I took the view that returns from farming would be difficult enough, but to achieve any profit, most of my remaining capital had to be assigned in investing in income generation. Plans for our house are gathering dust, I settled for extending the existing family home and establishing a small shop. The rest is funding the establishment of our pig farm. Our farm land is still only growing it's usual rain fed rice crop, with returns as PN describes.

I have three suggestions for you. First, I do not know how old your kids are, but I would want to be absolutely certain they were well informed about what their life here would be like and were as eager as you to come. Secondly, You have a house already, use that until you get re-established here. Build a decent western style bathroom and clean up the rest, if possible before you come "permanently". Thirdly hold onto as much cash as you can. Use your land and that available to try out your farming plans before thinking about buying more. My experience is that you will hit resistance from Nay-Sayers amongst the people who will usually work your land and as carefully as you plan and describe what is needed to be done, it will prove a challenge to achieve it. The tirades of absentee owners, especially western ones, may well leave your land without a workforce at all.

Whatever you do, don't lose sight of your dreams nor those of your wife and kids. Just be cautious about jumping in the deep end with a cheap life jacket.

Isaanaussie

Thanks for this advice. I am constantly thinking of the effect on my kids, the one is only 6 months old (so will know nothing different) and my other boy is 5. I have convinced myself that he is young enough to adjust and pick up the language. He does however have some great friends in the close that we live in and I am sure he will miss them (as they will miss him). But if i moved anywhere they would be broken up. I realy do dread moving into the house we have now as there are already 6 people living in it. My wife has said that they can live downstars while we live upstairs, but I still have all the family there plus the never ending stream of visitors. One of the reasons i want to come back to Thailand is that i want to be able to relax in the evenings in the countryside. The house already has a western toilet that I had built for when me and my wife got married in the village, God knows what it's like now though. A few thousand pound would see the house livable for sure but I really don't want it.I am now thinking of renting near the village driving to a main town to teach while the missus either works or maybe I will set her up with a small food business where she could drive around the local villages selling er food. We are only going to farm the land we have available now which is going to be 35 rai 15 as one crop 20 as at least 2 (plans going well). my main concern now is going to be transport cars in Thailand are unbelievably expensive.

Cheers

neil

[IsaanAussie]

Agreed on the kids.

Thought of offering the relatives 200,000 to build themselves a new house?

I purchased second hand (4yr old) and rebuilt mechanically. Cost a third the price of a new vehicle and hasn't missed a beat. 2004 model Ford Ranger XLT 4x4.

IA

[nellyp]

Agreed on the kids.

Thought of offering the relatives 200,000 to build themselves a new house?

I purchased second hand (4yr old) and rebuilt mechanically. Cost a third the price of a new vehicle and hasn't missed a beat. 2004 model Ford Ranger XLT 4x4.

IA

I seriously think a 4 year old motor would be out of my league as I want to keep as much cash as a float as possible ( fall back money/ good investment). Where are you in Sisaket IA? I am thinking that I may end up working/ living thereabout rather than staying near Huai Thap Than (missus' area). I may just give them that house and start afresh as I stay in the village still have all the other relatives there

. I don't mind the imediate family too much, it's just there are so many others

[IsaanAussie]

Agreed on the kids.

Thought of offering the relatives 200,000 to build themselves a new house?

I purchased second hand (4yr old) and rebuilt mechanically. Cost a third the price of a new vehicle and hasn't missed a beat. 2004 model Ford Ranger XLT 4x4.

IA

I seriously think a 4 year old motor would be out of my league as I want to keep as much cash as a float as possible ( fall back money/ good investment). Where are you in Sisaket IA? I am thinking that I may end up working/ living thereabout rather than staying near Huai Thap Than (missus' area). I may just give them that house and start afresh as I stay in the village still have all the other relatives there

. I don't mind the imediate family too much, it's just there are so many others

Nell,

Beween Khukhan and Sisaket. Not much in the way of employment here but there is an english language course in Sisaket that has eight foreigner teachers in it, also a number of reasonable houses for rent at around 3-4000 a month, or so I'm told.

Issaanaussie

[brahmburgers]

If you're married to a Thai and you're residing in Thailand, then figure that a lot or a very lot of your dough will likely get allocated to her side of the family. Thais naturally think that farang (particularly farang who marry in to their family) have deep pockets. Proof of that (in their view) is a farang can go to the ATM any time, day or night, and take out Bt.20,000. Unless you have a stalwart understanding with her family, they're going to expect money going to them for one thing or another. P.S. most farang husbands reading this will likely think to themselves, "that may apply to others, but it doesn't apply to my situation." Maybe, maybe not, but take a realistic look at the amount of money per year that winds up going to the Thai wife's family (or friends), and see how realistically one's comfy self-somatizing image of the situation holds up to reality.

Solutions:

#1, don't get married. #2. marry a gal without a chummy family #3. marry a gal without a clinging/needy family solution #4. make firm ground rules, and don't waver, even when people call you 'kee neeo" (stingy) behind your back (or in your face!).

solution #5. accept that you'll be at least semi-supporting your wife's family, and find ways to justify it - which is what most farang husbands wind up doing..