Pajero Finance Refused

[rizla]

Well sorry to say, i wont be joining the ranks of Pajero Owners Club.........finance turned down as i dont have a WP..Bank of Ayudhya , and waiting to see if Tanachart will accomodate, but doubt it too as the rep said no WP no finance, but he said he would ask higher up the food chain incase ?

Have a retirement visa, letter from embassy for proof of income, good movement in my kasikorn account, yellow book, 5 years D/L ...wanted 30-40% down over 48 or 60, to minimise the impact on my exchange rate on the uk pound (deposit).....don`t even think 50 % down would swing it as they keep saying WP..

I don`t understand them, a WP can be cancelled or you can be made unemployed at any time, but my pension now drawing down is for life....

P.S need to be in my name for the obvious reasons, not married to a thai just have a girlfriend, but no use as a guarantee as she has no assets and wouldn`t ask her parents either...Any ideas would help thanks....

Oh and i know i could stick 1mil baht in a holding account in kasikorn as a guarantee, but sh1t intrest and low exchange rates just now and i presume would need to be locked for the same period as the loan....might be worth it as it would save me going to jomtien every year for the proof of income letter from the embassy, but i here on Tv that some immigration offices wont accept your 800,000 baht in a holding account as it cant be freed up as easily for daily expences, again any ideas....please...

[rizla]

Oh, sorry to hear that. Looks like cash.

Have the cash, but want hedge against the baht dropping, their foriegn cash reserves wont last for ever...i hope

[basjke]

I am in exactly the same situation as you.A guarantee from a Thai girl with no assets or job did the trick with Nissan finance 3 weeks ago.

I secured another finance with Toyota 6-7 years ago again with a Thai lady with no assets as guarantee.A thai with 5 baht in his pocket as guarantee seems to be worth more then a foreigner with a loads of money in the bank.

[Deeral]

The reason they GIVE and the actual reason may not be the same.

[rizla]

The reason they GIVE and the actual reason may not be the same.

Explain further please?...thanks

[Benjie]

Wouldn't worry about the girls finances, they just want a Thai signature on the guarantor line. One of my lowest paid employees acted as a guarantor for one of our pickups in the early days.

[rizla]

Wouldn't worry about the girls finances, they just want a Thai signature on the guarantor line. One of my lowest paid employees acted as a guarantor for one of our pickups in the early days.

Hear what you are saying benjie, things have obviously changed from back in the day, my G/F was asked to counter sign my application and they took a copy of her ID card too, but as i stated the finance is to be in MY name, and she has no assets anyway....

On a side note if any of the RECENT mitsibushi owners on here have mangaged to get finance like what i`m after on the OP, please let me know the dealers name and location...i personaly think they are tightning up there previous practices...thanks

[MoonRiverOasis]

A different Mistubishi dealer isn't likely to help - they all use Ayudhya's "Cash 4 Car" finance product, and you've already had a recorded denial with them. My suggestion would be to find a finance broker, and get them to (anonymously) run your application across a variety of lenders for a result. I would be very surprised if they are unable to secure you finance with a 50% down payment and Thai guarantor (co-signer), but you won't be getting any special deals on interest - expect something in the high 2's to mid 3% range.

I would not recommend putting in any further finance applications on your own behalf, because any further denials could seriously impact your ability to get finance in the future. All applications, approved or denied, get logged with one (or both) of the commercial finance registries in Thailand.

[MoonRiverOasis]

I should note that the first vehicle finance I got in Thailand was via a finance broker, not a dealership representative. I kept that going for 2 years before paying it out, and have since financed 3 more cars using straight dealer finance. Once you've established a credit rating here in TH it all gets a lot easier.

I'm now so confident of my ability to secure finance here that when I bought the PJS in April this year I said 1.1% with 20% down or no deal, simple as that (the promotion at the time was 1.65% with 25% down) - a somewhat different attitude to my first finance here

[seedy]

Finance Broker ? I am not familiar with this term, could you elaborate ? Thanks.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Finance Broker ? I am not familiar with this term, could you elaborate ? Thanks.

Finance Broker - someone who acts as an agent for multiple lenders, and makes a commission on succesful applications. Some are solo operators, some are full blown companies.

It's not just a Thai thing BTW - pretty much every country has them, and in some cases (like mortgages) can actually negotiate/find much better deals than you'd be able to normally organise yourself. I have one that lives a few doors away, who helped me with my first TH finance.

The big advantages they have are:

1) They understand the prequisites/requirements of different lenders, and the type of things that'll get you approved or declined. So no wasting time and credit rating with applications that are destined to fail. They might even suggest some creative wording/numbers that'll get you past the post, so to speak

2) They understand what the best rates available really are. They'll still pump them a bit of course (because comm is related to total contract interest), but if you at least act savvy, they'll still get you a better rate than advertised.

3) They have direct contacts with the approval officers in the finance co's, so can ask questions about an applicant's ability to get approved without actually having to submit an application, which again saves you from unecessary declines on your credit rating.

4) They're committed to getting you finance, and will try every lender they possibly can in order to get the 'sale'.

[FarangBuddha]

Just pay cash and save the interest expense...it's only about B 1M right...stay away from being a "debt slave."

[MoonRiverOasis]

Just pay cash and save the interest expense...it's only about B 1M right...stay away from being a "debt slave."

It's not always about that FB..

If I keep my money in my currency, I can earn far more interest that what I'd repay on Thai finance. So by financing I'm:

1) Saving money due to interest rate differentials

2) Controlling my exposure to currency fluctuations

3) Establishing a credit rating for something I might not be able to purchase outright (e.g. a condo)

1 & 2 together could very easily add up to double-digit percentage savings if managed correctly.

As for 3, again if bought correctly it's an investment that can appreciate far beyond any interest payable.

I personally get a kick out of using bank's money to make and/or save me money

[stingray]

Well sorry to say, i wont be joining the ranks of Pajero Owners Club.........finance turned down as i dont have a WP..Bank of Ayudhya , and waiting to see if Tanachart will accomodate, but doubt it too as the rep said no WP no finance, but he said he would ask higher up the food chain incase ?

Have a retirement visa, letter from embassy for proof of income, good movement in my kasikorn account, yellow book, 5 years D/L ...wanted 30-40% down over 48 or 60, to minimise the impact on my exchange rate on the uk pound (deposit).....don`t even think 50 % down would swing it as they keep saying WP..

I don`t understand them, a WP can be cancelled or you can be made unemployed at any time, but my pension now drawing down is for life....

P.S need to be in my name for the obvious reasons, not married to a thai just have a girlfriend, but no use as a guarantee as she has no assets and wouldn`t ask her parents either...Any ideas would help thanks....

Oh and i know i could stick 1mil baht in a holding account in kasikorn as a guarantee, but sh1t intrest and low exchange rates just now and i presume would need to be locked for the same period as the loan....might be worth it as it would save me going to jomtien every year for the proof of income letter from the embassy, but i here on Tv that some immigration offices wont accept your 800,000 baht in a holding account as it cant be freed up as easily for daily expences, again any ideas....please...

Never understud whe peaple put them self in a payment plan for years, headache every month. QUESTION: What happen if mister Somchai, with his old Pick Up Truck hit you from the side and totally your unpaid Pajero? Things like this could hapen every day overhere. Just buy a car you can afford and pay in cash is a much better option. BTW all this wining around the exchange rates. When i came to Thailand the Baht was 25 against the USD and "my" the Baht was 17 against my Swiss Frank. We still in a very lucky posisition. Actually i want the Baht getting stronger, so i can buy more Swiss Franks, in case i want move back.

[robblok]

Never understud whe peaple put them self in a payment plan for years, headache every month. QUESTION: What happen if mister Somchai, with his old Pick Up Truck hit you from the side and totally your unpaid Pajero? Things like this could hapen every day overhere. Just buy a car you can afford and pay in cash is a much better option. BTW all this wining around the exchange rates. When i came to Thailand the Baht was 25 against the USD and "my" the Baht was 17 against my Swiss Frank. We still in a very lucky posisition. Actually i want the Baht getting stronger, so i can buy more Swiss Franks, in case i want move back.

I would take it your car is insured so you will get day value for your car. It could be that i am mistaken and the insurance company won't pay out because the other person is responsible and has no insurance. But i would think that is the reason for first class insurance.

[phutoie2]

Never understud whe peaple put them self in a payment plan for years, headache every month. QUESTION: What happen if mister Somchai, with his old Pick Up Truck hit you from the side and totally your unpaid Pajero? Things like this could hapen every day overhere. Just buy a car you can afford and pay in cash is a much better option. BTW all this wining around the exchange rates. When i came to Thailand the Baht was 25 against the USD and "my" the Baht was 17 against my Swiss Frank. We still in a very lucky posisition. Actually i want the Baht getting stronger, so i can buy more Swiss Franks, in case i want move back.

I would take it your car is insured so you will get day value for your car. It could be that i am mistaken and the insurance company won't pay out because the other person is responsible and has no insurance. But i would think that is the reason for first class insurance.

Precisely!, perhaps Mr Ray thinks that those who have our cars on tick do not have insurance!!.

What happens if Somchai hits your shiny new Pajero that you have paid cash for!!

[rizla]

Thanks for all your replys, i could do with some links to these mentioned brokers..

Just looked at the cost difference beween 47baht against 55baht (if we ever get there again) nearly 3500 uk pounds, i would like to get the finance and give the baht a chance to fall...On the application , only one was done with the paperwork, the other with tanachart was verbal, the rep wanted the paperwork from me but i said, only if it was a lookiing like they would accept..didn`t know thailand had a working database?

Why wont they accept retirees? as i stated WP are and can be fickle...

[MoonRiverOasis]

Thanks for all your replys, i could do with some links to these mentioned brokers..

Insurance brokers rarely have websites in the West, so there's virtually no chance of them having one here. Your best bet would be to ask around. The guy I know only operates in Chiangmai, so probably of no use to you.

didn`t know thailand had a working database?

As noted earlier, there are two commercial credit registries in Thailand.

Why wont they accept retirees? as i stated WP are and can be fickle...

Each lender has their own policies, and the rules for farang can vary *wildy* As en example, SCB will finance 80% of a house over 30 years, BKK bank will only finance 50% over 7 years. Some lenders require a WP and/or marriage for foreigners, some don't. Unfortunately one of more farang-friendly car financiers no longer exists (SICCO), so again a finance broker will be your best bet.

Best of luck!

[FarangBuddha]

[

If I keep my money in my currency, I can earn far more interest that what I'd repay on Thai finance. So by financing I'm:

1) Saving money due to interest rate differentials

2) Controlling my exposure to currency fluctuations

3) Establishing a credit rating for something I might not be able to purchase outright (e.g. a condo)

1 & 2 together could very easily add up to double-digit percentage savings if managed correctly.

As for 3, again if bought correctly it's an investment that can appreciate far beyond any interest payable.

If everything breaks in your favor over the 3-5 year period of the loan, they you may break even or come out a little bit ahead but if it was really that easy, more people would do it. Basically, you are over-complicating a relatively straightforward purchase by putting into the mix interest rate fluctuations and currency rate exchange risks.

Interest rates on borrowed money are quite low now (if you are a well qualified borrower) but they could very easily rise over the loan period and so will your payments if it's an adjustable rate. In addition, while your "home" currency may rise vis-a-vis the baht, and therefore lower you monthly auto loan payment, it may just a likely continue to fall, thereby raising the payment. If you don't have the funds, then a loan with a home-country or Thai bank is your only option but if you can pay in cash, you may sleep better at nite and enjoy the new wheels more during the day

[stingray]

Never understud whe peaple put them self in a payment plan for years, headache every month. QUESTION: What happen if mister Somchai, with his old Pick Up Truck hit you from the side and totally your unpaid Pajero? Things like this could hapen every day overhere. Just buy a car you can afford and pay in cash is a much better option. BTW all this wining around the exchange rates. When i came to Thailand the Baht was 25 against the USD and "my" the Baht was 17 against my Swiss Frank. We still in a very lucky posisition. Actually i want the Baht getting stronger, so i can buy more Swiss Franks, in case i want move back.

I would take it your car is insured so you will get day value for your car. It could be that i am mistaken and the insurance company won't pay out because the other person is responsible and has no insurance. But i would think that is the reason for first class insurance.

Yes insurance pays everything, but in what time they gonna fix it? 2 or 3 months? How the fix quality will be? Maybe color start pealing off after 6 months, and it's a "accident car" after that will maybe never run straight again and who gonna pay the losses on value if you ever gonna sale it again? Stay here for 16 years and i got all this expirience already.

[MoonRiverOasis]

[

If I keep my money in my currency, I can earn far more interest that what I'd repay on Thai finance. So by financing I'm:

1) Saving money due to interest rate differentials

2) Controlling my exposure to currency fluctuations

3) Establishing a credit rating for something I might not be able to purchase outright (e.g. a condo)

1 & 2 together could very easily add up to double-digit percentage savings if managed correctly.

As for 3, again if bought correctly it's an investment that can appreciate far beyond any interest payable.

If everything breaks in your favor over the 3-5 year period of the loan, they you may break even or come out a little bit ahead but if it was really that easy, more people would do it. Basically, you are over-complicating a relatively straightforward purchase by putting into the mix interest rate fluctuations and currency rate exchange risks.

Interest rates on borrowed money are quite low now (if you are a well qualified borrower) but they could very easily rise over the loan period and so will your payments if it's an adjustable rate. In addition, while your "home" currency may rise vis-a-vis the baht, and therefore lower you monthly auto loan payment, it may just a likely continue to fall, thereby raising the payment. If you don't have the funds, then a loan with a home-country or Thai bank is your only option but if you can pay in cash, you may sleep better at nite and enjoy the new wheels more during the day

If you actively manage your money it's no additional bother.. While no-one can predict the immediate future for currencies, in the longer term it's much easier.

In any case, I don't normally share business or investment knowledge with anyone unless it directly benefits me, so I'll leave it at that

[Zstarx]

Just pay cash and save the interest expense...it's only about B 1M right...stay away from being a "debt slave."

Why would you, if you get 2.89% finance ?

[FarangBuddha]

Just pay cash and save the interest expense...it's only about B 1M right...stay away from being a "debt slave."

Why would you, if you get 2.89% finance ?

Well I could think of many pleasant ways to spend an extra 30k baht per year for 3-5 years in Pattaya...much rather I had the soapies than a banker In addition, I read once that the way Thai banks compute interest on a loan is not the same way it's done in the West and the effective interest rates or the actual amount of interest paid is higher than the Western calculation method (surprise surprise).

[rizla]

Just pay cash and save the interest expense...it's only about B 1M right...stay away from being a "debt slave."

Why would you, if you get 2.89% finance ?

Well I could think of many pleasant ways to spend an extra 30k baht per year for 3-5 years in Pattaya...much rather I had the soapies than a banker In addition, I read once that the way Thai banks compute interest on a loan is not the same way it's done in the West and the effective interest rates or the actual amount of interest paid is higher than the Western calculation method (surprise surprise).

Not sure FB, i triple checked the payments on the plan i applied for, it seems to be normal APR calcs to me,

Sum borrowed = x,

intrest on that sum say 1.55% = y,

y x years = total intrest on loan,

total intrest + sum borrowed divided by months = monthly payment......

So say, total cost = 1112000 -30% deposit = 778400 sum borrowed

778400 x 1.55% intrest = 12065 yearly intrest

12065 x 5 = 60325 for 5 years intrest

60325 + 778400 = 838725 total amount due including intrest

838725 divided by 60 months = 13,979 per month over 5 years..............or maybe i`m wrong ,

oh and not to forget the tax free intrest on on the SLIDING capital in my offshore account at 2.60%/year, (which might go up if inflation keeps rising, helping savers) or even BETTER if the monthly payments can be accomodated inside my pension budget for the month, which shouldn`t be an issue..therefore the intrest gained on the capital not used, 778400baht = £2150 over 5 years at todays rate....this is only my subjective view offcourse..

[Benjie]

I thought you also had to pay VAT on the finance.

[rizla]

I thought you also had to pay VAT on the finance.

Not on new, only on second hand vehicles..vat is included in the NEW vehicle price...i believe

[Sophon]

Not sure FB, i triple checked the payments on the plan i applied for, it seems to be normal APR calcs to me,

Sum borrowed = x,

intrest on that sum say 1.55% = y,

y x years = total intrest on loan,

total intrest + sum borrowed divided by months = monthly payment......

So say, total cost = 1112000 -30% deposit = 778400 sum borrowed

778400 x 1.55% intrest = 12065 yearly intrest

12065 x 5 = 60325 for 5 years intrest

60325 + 778400 = 838725 total amount due including intrest

838725 divided by 60 months = 13,979 per month over 5 years..............or maybe i`m wrong ,

oh and not to forget the tax free intrest on on the SLIDING capital in my offshore account at 2.60%/year, (which might go up if inflation keeps rising, helping savers) or even BETTER if the monthly payments can be accomodated inside my pension budget for the month, which shouldn`t be an issue..therefore the intrest gained on the capital not used, 778400baht = £2150 over 5 years at todays rate....this is only my subjective view offcourse..

Your calculations are correct enough, but that is not "normal APR" as you would know it from most other countries. You are basically paying interest on the original loan amount for the full period of the loan, where you in most western countries would only pay interest on the remaining debt. The compund interest rate of the loan is therefore almost double the qouted interest rate.

Sophon

[MoonRiverOasis]

All vehicle finance in Thailand is flat rate, and in the case of new cars, there's no VAT surprises - that's already been factored into the rate.

Flat rate is easy to calculate, and is more directly comparable to interest being earned on savings or investments.

Using rizla's numbers as an example, the comparative APR rate would be 2.977% (vs 1.55% flat).

APR was not invented for the consumer, it was invented by and for the banks so they could extract the bulk of their interest (profit) from you sooner into the loan term, and to give them the flexibility to move rates around. It makes sense on long term finance such as mortgages where everyone needs protection from future rate movements (up and down), but on shorter terms where a fixed interest rate can be agreed upon, APR serves only to give the bank the bulk of their profit quicker.

[rizla]

All vehicle finance in Thailand is flat rate, and in the case of new cars, there's no VAT surprises - that's already been factored into the rate.

Flat rate is easy to calculate, and is more directly comparable to interest being earned on savings or investments.

Using rizla's numbers as an example, the comparative APR rate would be 2.977% (vs 1.55% flat).

APR was not invented for the consumer, it was invented by and for the banks so they could extract the bulk of their interest (profit) from you sooner into the loan term, and to give them the flexibility to move rates around. It makes sense on long term finance such as mortgages where everyone needs protection from future rate movements (up and down), but on shorter terms where a fixed interest rate can be agreed upon, APR serves only to give the bank the bulk of their profit quicker.

Ok i understand better, thanks MRO, ............back to the main issue, i want to join your club...where can i get finance on a retirement visa and proof of income letter from embassy...please make my day..i`m sitting up all night waiting for good info...

[MoonRiverOasis]

All vehicle finance in Thailand is flat rate, and in the case of new cars, there's no VAT surprises - that's already been factored into the rate.

Flat rate is easy to calculate, and is more directly comparable to interest being earned on savings or investments.

Using rizla's numbers as an example, the comparative APR rate would be 2.977% (vs 1.55% flat).

APR was not invented for the consumer, it was invented by and for the banks so they could extract the bulk of their interest (profit) from you sooner into the loan term, and to give them the flexibility to move rates around. It makes sense on long term finance such as mortgages where everyone needs protection from future rate movements (up and down), but on shorter terms where a fixed interest rate can be agreed upon, APR serves only to give the bank the bulk of their profit quicker.

Ok i understand better, thanks MRO, ............back to the main issue, i want to join your club...where can i get finance on a retirement visa and proof of income letter from embassy...please make my day..i`m sitting up all night waiting for good info...

It doesn't appear that anyone reading this thread has a contact for a finance broker in you part of TH, so the best suggestion I can make would be to start a new thread in the business section asking for one..