Do You Hate Your Own Country?

[actiondell4]

Last night I was having a few drinks with a friend who will be retiring to Thailand next year when he retires.

Whilst we were talking a Current Affair show was airing a program about how elderly residents/senior citizens were arming themselves with weapons as some had been attacked and threatened by young teenage gangs in this area of Sydney.

My friend said,"What a terrible place this Australia is becoming,I never want to come back here ,I hate this Country,the do gooders ,the Judges the whole lot".

It got me thinking ,do most expats hate their own country they move away because of reasons like this.

Actually i told my friend that where he would be moving (Pattaya) young crime gangs are just as bad there too,and so is road rage etc.

No doub t its a better life for an older person than some Govt housing block,actually I havent seen the movie "Harry Brown"yet but it would be better obviously living in Thailand than a slum govt/council housing but my question is to expats or those seeking to move to Thailand is ,"what is it you dont like about your home country,is it the escalating crime,do gooders,government,taxes or what?

[WarpSpeed]

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

[evanson]

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

At least in one's home country the laws are not subject to the whim of an old judge or nam cha to the police as to whether they take action, or not. Together with the added 'you are farang' and consequently they couldn't be bothered. You know pretty much where you stand in the West, very much not so here.

[Zstarx]

I'm starting to dislike Perth, if Labour bring in this RSPT I can see my retirement being delayed another year. That would really piss me off.

[thaibeachlovers]

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

You pretty much said what I would have, plus my "own country" is low income, high cost of living, and has been divided in the last 30 years into the "rich" class who don't give a toss for anything but themselves and their priviliged lifestyle, and the underclass of poor and disadvantaged, from whom are drawn a huge and growing gang culture, against which the police are as effective as a soggy newspaper. Anyone with ability is moving overseas, where they can at least earn a few bob, and eventually the country will disapear up it's own orifice.

However, if you have a lot of dollars to spare and enjoy the outdoors, it's probably one of the greatest countries in the world ( outside the cities and the political system ),

[thaibeachlovers]

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

At least in one's home country the laws are not subject to the whim of an old judge or nam cha to the police as to whether they take action, or not. Together with the added 'you are farang' and consequently they couldn't be bothered. You know pretty much where you stand in the West, very much not so here.

However, in my home country, if you are rich and/ or influential, you are able to get away with almost anything, and if you are poor, you are much more likely to end up in trouble. Hmmm, bit like Thailand.

[sceadugenga]

Nice to go back and see friends and family, I suppose I'd live there if I had to.

[NBD]

I don't hate it, but I definitely don't want to live there. I would say living overseas has made me focus on the more important aspects of it, what it is, what is good and bad about it and how far down the pan it is compared to how it could be.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't hate it, but I definitely don't want to live there.

That is exactly what I was going to say.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

No I don't hate it, never have. Left 26 years ago to go on a two year holiday and found out I liked the holiday more than working. May return someday but not full time, maybe six and six something like that. But not soon, maybe when I get old.

[slapout]

Rather enjoy the diversity of food, weather,landscape, people, etc in the home country. Traffic flow is more controlled as are most all aspects of daily livings, and the people by and large are boring (never been out of the area. Do not hate it but elect to live here.

[angiud]

I don't hate my country, I hate the actual government.

[dsprtliving]

Have to say I definitely don't hate it, and I think it is a common misperception that we have rejected our own countries just because we live our lives abroad. I've been out here just over 9 years now and have found that i grow more fond of home each time i go back for a visit. Actually, for me...I probably would've already thrown in the towel and headed home if it weren't for my Thai partner, but that's a whole other thread...

[zydeco]

This is a hard question to answer. And that's primarily because I don't come from a real country. I come from the United States of America. And the United States doesn't have a common tradition, a common heritage, a common language, or common values--all the things that actually characterize a nation. It had those things, once, but no longer. Now, it has become the United States of *Freedom*. Freedom for anyone to crash the borders and set up a narcotrafficking gang armed with more heavy duty weaponry than the National Guard. Freedom for corporations, banksters, and businesses to loot, pillage, pollute, and destroy and then get the $35,000/year taxpayer to pay the looters' multi-million dollar bonuses. Freedom to create some international job hiring bazaar on American soil, so as to destroy wages, elminate American jobs, and evade workplace safety standards. Freedom for BosWash elites to assign themselves sinecures in government, business, or the military that are more solidly entrenched than the old Soviet Union's Politburo. And, increasingly, an unnamed (and unmentioned) political aristocracy in which certain families establish and enforce dynastic rule over the populace. And, finally, the freedom for a lot of very wealthy plutocrats to send the sons and daughters of poor, mainly rural, working Americans to godforesaken countries across the world, in order to protect the wealth and privilege of those plutocrats and their vampire-like offspring.

Do I hate my country? How could anyone hate the sort of place I just described?

[Ulysses G.]

I have a feeling that you are certainly not missed. 

[Heng]

[quote name='thaibeachlovers' date='2010-06-11 18:09' timestamp='1276254583'

...has been divided in the last 30 years into the "rich" class who don't give a toss for anything but themselves and their priviliged lifestyle, and the underclass of poor and disadvantaged, from whom are drawn a huge and growing gang culture, against which the police are as effective as a soggy newspaper.

Welcome to Thailand as I know and love, although I'd say the police here are fairly effective against the poor and unconnected.

[actiondell4]

"I've been out here just over 9 years now and have found that i grow more fond of home each time i go back for a visit. "

Interesting....consider how much it must of changed.

Do I hate my country? How could anyone hate the sort of place I just described?

I suppose you could be describing all Western countries.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

hyper PC correctness and over application of laws restricting one's personal responsibility for making their own decisions is a bit of a draw back but otherwise not at all...

Yep. The erosion of individual liberties to the point where we're going to join China and Lybia and Myanmar and and bring in blanket Internet censorship that will be about as effective as - and also the endless march towards the Grey Middle which has been going on for awhile now in Australia and even picking up steam; a world where excellence and innovation are stifled and discouraged in favour of conformity and mediocrity and god dam_n Socialism

Apart from the overwhelming sense of Entitlement every lazy bum kid has, and our endless noose governments, I love Australia.

At least in one's home country the laws are not subject to the whim of an old judge or nam cha to the police as to whether they take action, or not. Together with the added 'you are farang' and consequently they couldn't be bothered. You know pretty much where you stand in the West, very much not so here.

wow. This is the accepted 'reality' that is pawned onto a gullible public - sure. But find yourself in the inners of that judicial beast in any Western country and you'll get a STARK wake-up call. A Queen's Counsel tends to hold his own against a Legal Aid reject. The vast majority of cases end up in acquittal. To get convicted of a crime in Australia is so unbelievably hard....you kind of have to be insanely unlucky and / or stupid. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Now, it has become the United States of *Freedom*. Freedom for anyone to crash the borders and set up a narcotrafficking gang armed with more heavy duty weaponry than the National Guard. Freedom for corporations, banksters, and businesses to loot, pillage, pollute, and destroy and then get the $35,000/year taxpayer to pay the looters' multi-million dollar bonuses. Freedom to create some international job hiring bazaar on American soil, so as to destroy wages, elminate American jobs, and evade workplace safety standards.

Oh wow.

1. Your 'narco' problem was created and continues to be facilitated by "The War [lolz] on Drugs" i.e. handing over the industry to the narcos. All gift-wrapped and that. What did anyone think was going to happen when the government refused to regulate and went down the road of Prohibition....again. Cause The Great Experiment was a great success the first time!

2. Regulate you stifle. Don't regulate you have chaos. Obviously they didn't get the balance right. They're trying to fix it. It's complex stuff.

3. Sigh. Protectionism. Solid. Put those walls up yo - 'protect' - 'your' - jobs. Cause locking out the world and rejecting FTAs in favour of tariffs and shunning globalisation....that's a solid line to pursue right there. Have you thought that plan through, you know, 20 yrs in advance even? Play it out in your mind. See where it takes you. Then please report back....

[oldmajor]

I am proud to be from my Country and will wear our colours with pride. That being said, I haven't been home for many years. I have worked away from home most of my working life and always do my best to embrace every country that I work in and the country cultures. I have always found that the most challenging countries bring out the best in the people that work and live there. I don't beleive that it is fair for people back in the UK to claim all manner of benefits for sitting with their thumbs up their bums. At the same time, we have made it so easy for people to do this. The hard working people in the UK get beaten to death with all manner of taxes (stealth tax is rife and growing according to my friends back in Blighty)

[jackspratt]

wow. This is the accepted 'reality' that is pawned onto a gullible public - sure. But find yourself in the inners of that judicial beast in any Western country and you'll get a STARK wake-up call. A Queen's Counsel tends to hold his own against a Legal Aid reject. The vast majority of cases end up in acquittal. To get convicted of a crime in Australia is so unbelievably hard....you kind of have to be insanely unlucky and / or stupid. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Ignorant, reactionary nonsense.

Conviction rates in higher (non magistrate) courts in Oz in 2007/08 were 78% - acquittal rates were 7%. In magistrates courts, the figures were 87%/4%.

Australia_Statistical Resources

[TheyCallmeScooter]

wow. This is the accepted 'reality' that is pawned onto a gullible public - sure. But find yourself in the inners of that judicial beast in any Western country and you'll get a STARK wake-up call. A Queen's Counsel tends to hold his own against a Legal Aid reject. The vast majority of cases end up in acquittal. To get convicted of a crime in Australia is so unbelievably hard....you kind of have to be insanely unlucky and / or stupid. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Ignorant, reactionary nonsense.

Conviction rates in higher (non magistrate) courts in Oz in 2007/08 were 78% - acquittal rates were 7%. In magistrates courts, the figures were 87%/4%.

Australia_Statistical Resources

How many of those had QCs as defending counsel?

I said "insanely unlucky" and/or "stupid".

[actiondell4]

What probaly should of said was that in most cases in Australia you dont even get arrested.

Cops turn up an hour later or just give drunks smashing things in the street a warning or move on direction or even drive the drunks home.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

wow. This is the accepted 'reality' that is pawned onto a gullible public - sure. But find yourself in the inners of that judicial beast in any Western country and you'll get a STARK wake-up call. A Queen's Counsel tends to hold his own against a Legal Aid reject. The vast majority of cases end up in acquittal. To get convicted of a crime in Australia is so unbelievably hard....you kind of have to be insanely unlucky and / or stupid. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Ignorant, reactionary nonsense.

Conviction rates in higher (non magistrate) courts in Oz in 2007/08 were 78% - acquittal rates were 7%. In magistrates courts, the figures were 87%/4%.

Australia_Statistical Resources

How many of those had QCs as defending counsel?

I said "insanely unlucky" and/or "stupid".

By the way I was just stalling for time frantically trying to read your links. Holy crap. I think this conviction rate is ludicrously high. This cannot be fair!

4% acquittal? What the devil. god dam_n Nazi magistrates.

And 7% like you say for indictable offences.

But what I don't understand is....170,000 REPORTED assaults - obviously we know the true number is far far higher - and only 16,000 indictable cases where charges are laid?

Edited June 11, 2010 by TheyCallmeScooter

[PhilHarries]

I don't, and never will, hate the country of my birth for I know that no matter how much the world goes pear shaped it's the only place I have a right to be.

I still very much enjoy going back there for visits seeing friends and family even though two out of the last three have seen me up to my knees in snow.

I also very much like my education, the likes of which stands me in good stead just about anywhere in the world.

The only thing I hate is the use of the word "hate". Isn't the world full enough of hatred that we have to hate everything we, in reality, merely dislike? Try cutting back on the negative outlook and you'll find yourself liking a lot more than you do now.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Ah I was ignorant.

http://eprints.qut.e...7438/1/7438.pdf

If you sexually assault a child:

Less than 1 in 10 chance child will even report the abuse.

Of those 10%, 1/3rd don't even make it a preliminary hearing.

Of the 6% that get through committal proceedings, 1/3rd don't proceed to trial.

The 4% that go to trial = 61% chance of being acquitted [and that includes all the Guilty pleas]

The barrister who was decrying the joke of it all from which I based my ignorant opinions was - of course - referring to this crime. And saying that it was almost impossible for charges laid against one of his clients to result in a conviction at the end of it all - providing they had the $ and just plead Not Guilty and let him do his thing until the police screw up or give up.

And we were both agreeing that was pretty f'ed up.

Except I was a moran and thought he was talking about the entire justice system. Interesting. Sad but interesting.

[hansum]

I despise the way England has turned out, but im looking to buy a house in cash there in a immigrant free area where if the local kids do get mouthy you know theyre only poncy middle class kids who havent the balls to be real bad ... this will be in 2 yrs once my current employment contract is finished.

This way i wont be getting hassled off the govt for every penny i earn and i can live a peaceful existence, more peaceful then i currently live in LOS.

I just couldnt see myself living in Thailand for the rest of my life (im only mid 30s) and fancy a bit a living in a civilised country for a good few yrs (ive been away best part of 10yrs) ... i think if i were to have Thailand as my base permanently then id grow to hate this place.

Edited June 11, 2010 by hansum

[sokal]

I dont think you can compare young groups of thugs in Aus to young thugs in Pattaya. It is more understandable that a poor group of kids living in poor conditions would get into that kind of trouble. It is just sickening to hear about young groups of kids, growing up in middle class suburbs going around gang beating people for no reason.

[tgw]

"hate" is too strong a word, but I figured out several years ago that I won't become happy in my home country(ies).

People here become increasingly enslaved in a system which benefits the super rich, the poor and the fraudsters.

But they don't even notice because every one is convinced to do the right thing.

Politicians have very limited powers, among which:

- say no

- blaming those who did mistakes

- blaming the privileged (bankers, traders, superrich, etc.)

- be caretakers

- look after their personal wealth

Our countries have no meaning and no vision anymore:

The great soviet evil is down and there's no new world to conquer.

Then add in all the stupid bureaucracy and over regulation of every aspect of one's private life.

One of my "home countries" is Germany, and I sometimes watched a reality-soap on officers looking after the public order in cities, or showing the work of customs officers.

When I saw what these people do every day, I wanted to cry because of all the abuse from the law our people have to put up with and I wanted to apologize to foreign tourists who were forced to pay VAT on their gold jewelry, and how people who had 8 more packs of cigarettes than allowed were harassed to pay taxes that were higher than the purchase price. They wanted to trash them, but weren't allowed to.

So here: I am sorry, I wished these matters were handled differently in my country.

Here are priorities I wished our governments would concentrate on:

- get the price of food down by about 90%

- get the price of real estate down by 80%

- stop spying on citizens

- tax companies on either profit, turnover or employees (whichever is WORSE), with increasing the tax rate by size within consolidated companies (free for small companies), ban cross-shareholding

- severely restrict access to private credits (consumer credits and mortgages) => reduce credit volume by 80% at least

[phomsanuk]

Nope, just don't want to live there

[GuestHouse]

I don't, and never will, hate the country of my birth for I know that no matter how much the world goes pear shaped it's the only place I have a right to be.

I still very much enjoy going back there for visits seeing friends and family even though two out of the last three have seen me up to my knees in snow.

I also very much like my education, the likes of which stands me in good stead just about anywhere in the world.

The only thing I hate is the use of the word "hate". Isn't the world full enough of hatred that we have to hate everything we, in reality, merely dislike? Try cutting back on the negative outlook and you'll find yourself liking a lot more than you do now.

The best post I've read on ThaiVisa is a long time.

There's nothing new about malcontents getting on a plane and coming to Thailand, ranting about their old life in their old country, only to find they brought their mindset with them and wind up griping about Thailand before they quietly sneak back to the old country.