Autism

[pedro01]

The doctor diagnosed my son as having Autism today.

He's behind in language development & doesn't keep eye-to-eye contact much.

Obviously, this is all a shock as he's a great kid - very active, likes to play with other kids, likes to play with me & the wife, laughs a lot, is big & strong...

On the other hand, he can't concentrate on anything (except TV) for long & and will only answer a question if he really has to - for instance if he wants a certain type of food/drink/activity.

So - I'm not sure I really beleive the diagnosis yet - for sure we are looking for a second opinion.

Anyone have any experience in this ?

Anyone know any good doctors or therapists (autism/speech development) ?

Any advice at all ?

Edited June 21, 2005 by penzman

[Rags]

Really sorry to hear that Pedro, must be a terrible shock.

I have no direct experience of autism, but the son of an old colleague has it, and I will try to find out some details for you. If I remember correctly, his son was responding well to some form of regular massage treatment that was heightening his general awareness - but not sure of the details. I will check.

Firstly as you mentioned, before you get too disheartened, I would definitely try to get a second/third opinion. Same advice for any serious condition diagnosed in LoS!

Is it possible that the delay in language development could be due to him struggling with both Thai and English, rather than autism? You have not mentioned your son's age, but as you know kids all hit the milestones at different stages.

Anyway, I hope things turn out OK, and that the second opinion brings better news. Just don't lose sight of the fact that he is still the great kid that he was before, and whatever terms get applied by doctors and the like, he is still going to bring your family a h3ll of a lot of joy.

Edited June 21, 2005 by Rags

[pedro01]

Really sorry to hear that Pedro, must be a terrible shock.

I have no direct experience of autism, but the son of an old colleague has it, and I will try to find out some details for you.  If I remember correctly, his son was responding well to some form of regular massage treatment that was heightening his general awareness - but not sure of the details.  I will check.

Firstly as you mentioned, before you get to disheartened, I would definitely try to get a second/third opinion.  Same message for any serious condition diagnosed in LoS! 

Is it possible that the delay in language development could be due to him struggling with both Thai and English, rather than autism?  You have not mentioned your son's age, but as you know kids all hit the milestones at different stages.

Anyway, I hope things turn out OK, and that the second opinion brings better news.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that- I'd appreciate any info on treatments.

My son is 3 years old & I agree that language development could be a problem because of the 2 languages. I think the greater concern is lack of eye-contact/concentration.

The doctor was very quick to diagnose & to try to get him onto drugs - that's not going to happen - not yet anyway.

[Catbert]

Here's a useful link: http://www.autism-we-can.com/HTML/index.html

From what I know, it's possible with early intervention to move from low-functioning to high-fuctioning autism. If I remember correctly, both Bill Gates and Albert Einstein (no time to check now, will check later) are both high-functioning aututic; so all is not loss.

Hope the information is useful.

[jingjingna]

Pedro,

Definately get a second/third opinion. Here they are quick to label kids as being Autistic even if they're suffering from some other form of learning disability!

[tutsiwarrior]

If you are just now discovering that your son is autistic he must be the high functioning type. Do a search on Asperger's Syndrome and have a read. My son (11 years) has Asperger's as has managed to handle school in the UK as a special needs pupil. Of course not sure whether special needs facilities are available in Thailand...would tend to think not whether at a thai or international school.

Edited June 21, 2005 by tutsiwarrior

[The Dan Sai Kid]

The doctor diagnosed my son as having Autism today.

He's behind in language development & doesn't keep eye-to-eye contact much.

Obviously, this is all a shock as he's a great kid - very active, likes to play with other kids, likes to play with me & the wife, laughs a lot, is big & strong...

On the other hand, he can't concentrate on anything (except TV) for long & and will only answer a question if he really has to - for instance if he wants a certain type of food/drink/activity.

So - I'm not sure I really beleive the diagnosis yet - for sure we are looking for a second opinion.

Anyone have any experience in this ?

Anyone know any good doctors or therapists (autism/speech development) ?

Any advice at all ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My neighbour has a son who is autistic. The one thing that I know is needed is a lot of understanding. I know that the UK is miles behind the US in terms of research into the condition.

For sure you need a 2nd opinion. I worked at a school in Bangkok that kept getting kids sent from an international school with Attention Deficit Disorder. In reality they were Thai kids sent to study a curriculum in English and were finding it heavy going. There was nothing wrong with the kids and I never got to find out who was diagnosing them.

I am far from being an expert in mental health, but I would seriously doubt that you can get therapy in Thailand that would be as effective in the US.

Good luck and I hope everything turns out okay.

[ukdog]

Pedro01,

Autism, (Asperger's Syndrome), can display in multiple functioning levels.

There is a wealth of information available to you on the net. Do some deep research and remain positive.

You, and the rest of your family can have a tremendously positive affect if you just educate yourself first and then, fight for him every inch of the way.

If positive treatment is not available here, or you cannot afford what is, look at re-locating. If that option is not available to you I have seen wonders performed by families who coupled their love with the application of well researched knowledge.

Never force an issue with him, please do your reading first.

Best wishes,

dog

[chownah]

Pedro,

Definately get a second/third opinion. Here they are quick to label kids as being Autistic even if they're suffering from some other form of learning disability!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree completely. My wife has a family member who is 13 years old and was diagnosed as autistic when she was about 4 or 5. I first met her when she was 9 and after interacting with her for a year or so I began to doubt that it was the correct diagnosis. I'm not a doctor but I have a family member who is a psychiatrist so I discussed with him my experiences with her. He cautioned me that of course a fluent Thai speaking psychiatrist would be the only person who could accurately make a diagnosis but that from what I had related it seemed plausible that whe was not autistic but had some other psychiatric problem.

All of this is well and good, but what I think is really important is that the educational system labeled her as autisitic and then basically stopped trying to teach her. She quickly learned that she was different and that she was not expected to do anything....so....like any kid would....she just goofed off....and they let her! I will be the first to admit that she has some learning disability but I have shown her how to play with many educational programs I have for the kids and it is plain to see that she can learn alot of things...only she is slower...and probably ultimately more limited than most....but the point is that her abilities are not being developed by the school where she attends....and this is a problem worse than her shortcomings.

[h90]

first take several opinions and doctors and read yourself a lot!

I was detected as stupid, but later on I made the masterdegree with special reward (nearly only the best mark). My cousin is a bit strange, maybe a light form of autism.

But never trust the average doc. Not get misleaded.

Good luck!!!!!

h90

The doctor diagnosed my son as having Autism today.

He's behind in language development & doesn't keep eye-to-eye contact much.

Obviously, this is all a shock as he's a great kid - very active, likes to play with other kids, likes to play with me & the wife, laughs a lot, is big & strong...

On the other hand, he can't concentrate on anything (except TV) for long & and will only answer a question if he really has to - for instance if he wants a certain type of food/drink/activity.

So - I'm not sure I really beleive the diagnosis yet - for sure we are looking for a second opinion.

Anyone have any experience in this ?

Anyone know any good doctors or therapists (autism/speech development) ?

Any advice at all ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[katana]

The doctor was very quick to diagnose & to try to get him onto drugs - that's not going to happen - not yet anyway.

In the UK at least, as far as I'm aware, there is no specific drug to treat autism, so would be interested to know what the drug was.

[katana]

Just looked on Google, apparently there are some drugs, although a friend of our family, who has an autistic child and goes to a special school says their child doesn't take any of the drugs.

Don't know why...

[350torana]

As a parent of a toddler I feel for you. Yep, get a second opinion. I would not be concerned so much about your kid communicating. Children brought up in a two languange household are much slower in devolping speech in alot of cases.

Just curious..what age did he start walking, is he taking an interest in toilet training...ect ?

I do not mean to pry . My point is milestones for young children are not set in stone. And many profesionals are quick to diagnose autism or ADD

[pedro01]

He was walking just after his first birthday - he's been ahead of the curve on most things.

Toilet trainings' a tough one with him - he goes when you tell him to, washes his hands, dresses himself but he'll never ask to go. He much prefers to pee his pants & then run around the house saying 'uh-oh'. As funny as that is - I'd kind of like him to stop peeing on the floor...

Language development is a concern, not so much from a vocabulary point of view - more that he doesn't respond and only speaks when HE needs something - he'll learn the words he needs & no more. He doesn't reply to questions unless you get right in his face. He avoids eye contact - especially with doctors and can't seem to focus on one thing for even a few minutes.

I think the drug they prescribed was Ritalin & I think that it's a bit premature for them to be suggesting it...

[Sel]

What made you suspect that there was something wrong in the first place?

lack of eye contact etc. as you said or this is what the doctor said? More medical opinions for sure.

"very active, likes to play with other kids, likes to play with me & the wife, laughs a lot, is big & strong..."

"On the other hand, he can't concentrate on anything (except TV) for long & and will only answer a question if he really has to - for instance if he wants a certain type of food/drink/activity."

No medical experience and just giving ideas

He is only 3 right? Big age difference but sounds exactly like my 9 yr old newphew.

(except it's more-so video games)

Several medical opinions in Aust. put it down to ADD or the other one (theres 2 i think). And I can't remember exactly.

Apparently he has an allergy (no visiable symptoms besides similar to what you've said) to certain foods and this promotes the symptoms. In his case wheat products. I have been amazed by how much of what we eat has wheat products in it (falang-land) (even most cornflour are wheat and not corn in oz, tomatoe sauce and the rest of the sauces, instant mix sachels, lots of canned foods with sauces or gravy blah blah blah). (Not sure if this is rice substitute in asia or soy or whatever). Apparently the new thoughts on this type of "illness?" is monodiets where we eat alot of processed foods (or parts thereof added to recipies) with the same base ingredients such as wheat as thickeners etc. (Maybe its all bull@#$t and we now diagnose everything differently with more education and technllogy)

My sister changed his diet cutting out any wheat and is doing medical treatment to train is thought patterns. Has electrodes conected to a computer pasted to his head a few times a week and plays a game with his brain waves like photo hunt to train his thought patterns to help him concentrate. Theres been a diference in concentration and social interaction as well as sleeping through the night and not waking up and wondering the house for a couple of hours at night looking for things to do.

Sounds pritty similar symptoms. I'm not a greenie, but we (our kids for sure) eat a lot of processed foods these days compared to when most of us were kids and we're probably not built to do this and as adults we are probably more tolerant to the effects as we ate more "homemade" foods when we were kids (not out of packets). Just some thoughts and maybe some avenues to explore.

[bina]

hi, i have three kids w/varying learning disabilities and one nephew with something thats NOT asperger, called pathological shyness (selective mutism) (not really shy as a personality trait but a 'syndrome')

he will talk only with one or two people that he trusts,but laughs and plays regularly with everyone; speaks w/minimal words but very intelligent, very attention intensive (reverse from mly three ADD kids) ; a neuropsychiatrist did the diagnoses; for autisms of any sorts most tests are differential diagnoses i.e. what the child DOES NOT have... autism kind of lumps many things in one basket; my daughter (youngest was i.d'd as autistic until we pushed on : she would sing endlessly and not speak, dance but not play with objects, etc... she's in part special educ. part regular)...... i work (with animals) w/lots of autistic spectrum children.... the variations are endless, and the more the parents invest (time and energy), usually the rewards are greater ....

my nephew (now 11) was suppoesed to get Prozac type drug , the parents refused, but did attend special kindergarten twice a week plus all kinds of one on one therapies... he functions super well in class but will not speak to most people (including grandparents and me, living next door to him)... but his active daily living level is very high (he is also bi lingual -- finnish/hebrew , when he does speak)

he speaks in one/two word phrases

i know it is a shock to find out that there are problems with a child; especially when in a country/culture that doesnt have understanding/backup .... my father in law heard that my duaghter was in special ed his first question was: she's retarded and with awful drooling kids?.... also, since she is very smart and very social, etc... he and others find it difficult to understand that at age 11 she doesnt tell time, cant read, etc etc but learns complicated dance steps first time off.... for all these types of situations, info from internet and doctors help extended family to understand etc

it took us 5 years to find the proper combo of school regime, ritilin amount (yes for her it works great 200% improvment which she feels as well), phsycho/play therapy, tutoring etc....

also marriage counselling might help you and wife since it is very hard to hear and accept that child is not 'normal' and there are differing opinions of how to handle the child, how to handle family members, other siblings, and also, TIME... ALL LEARNING DISABLED/HANDICAPPED ETC CHILDREN NEED MORE TIME FOR EVERYTHING AND THEY TAKE UP MORE OF FAMILY'S TIME..... and cause lots of stress

and finding other families with similar situations as a 'support group'... i hated it at first, but it does rather help in comparing notes, ideas, gripes, etc; as do forums on internet

lastly, there are no 'curing' drugs for most syndromes but many drugs/meds do help for specific problems , dont write them off without hearing differing opinions etc...i did the 'no meds' thing and now realize that was a mistake;

sorry for long ramble, just a bit overtired but... try for second /third opinions but be open to the fact that this may indeed be the correct diagnoses (wnt thru that also, husband refused to believe our beautiful duaghter had some peculiar cognitive problems that were incurable)

i wish u well

bina

[ukdog]

Pedro01,

Sel made some good points on the importance of diet.

Be aware that Autism is one of the least understood conditions, although some 'Main Stream' medical professionals may say other-wise.

There is a lot of damage done by poorly prescribed drugs, many having worst side-effects than the condition itself.

I would take nothing at face value, listen to all and then do the re-search. If drugs are prescribed re-search them and seek another opinion.

I have a friend who is recognised as one of the leaders in the care, (which includes treatment where neccessary), of very severe cases of Aspergers syndrome. After 20 years of specialisation he believes that he is still an infant in his understanding of what is taking place in an Autistic brain.

He also comes across many cases where the diagnosis has been wrong and the treament received has done more damage than good.

All I am saying, is that in most cases that I have seen success, there has been a commited family unit, all of whom made the enormous effort to educate themselves.

Luck,

dog

[farangene]

A few points that I know about autism:

1. Autism is difficult to accurately diagnose and usually done by observing the child and drawing conclusions from that. I would definitely seek out a second or even third opinion. Rumor abound that the increase in modern autism is due to the vaccines that are routinely given to infants. Who knows?

2. I have a nephew in Thailand who was diagnosed at a young age (2 or 3). Six plus years later he is still on medication. The only side effect (suspected) of the meds seems to make him grow very tall for his age (esp for a Thai) and he is a 6-8 inches taller than his classmates. Not fat at all, just tall.

3. He excels at school and is usually one of the top academic students in his class. He is a loving child, likes sports, not well-coordinated but seems quite normal to me so I suspect his case of autism is mild. He communiciates well but loses his temper occassionaly due to his autism (according to parents) but I think his tantrums would be normal for any kid.

4. Remember that the King's Grandson who was killed in the tsunami was autistic, There are a lot of resources available for autisitic kids in TH as a result.

5. Time Magazine had an issue that was devoted to autism last year. You might want to look that up for the latest views/outlook on autism.

Good luck.

[pedro01]

All

Thanks for the good advice & support.

We saw another doctor yesterday - this time at Bangko Hospital - he said that my son could be slightly autistic & referred to another specialist that deals in helping the kids to learn & the parents to teach children with difficulties.

We also found a school for Autistic kids in Pinklao - they were very helpful - we go there today . This place was started by parents of autistic kids & they have a support group. They will see my son today & have already called the teachers at his playgroup and spoken to my wife. They have the local contacts & it's great that there's a group of parents out there that we can go and see & that doesn't appear to have any vested interest.

It'll be a shame if I have to leave Thailand because there's no support but I'll do it in a hearbeat if it's best for my Son.

He's still the same kid my wife & I cherished last week - this weeks diagnosis doesn't change that a bit. Our biggest fear of drugs is that it'll change his personality - we don't want to lose the kid we have now...

Thanks again.

Pedro

[ukdog]

Pedro01,

Your already on the right road, just remember, check, check and then check again.

best of luck to you and yours.

dog

[islanddreamer]

Pedro, my two-year-old has a communication delay (not sure why just yet) and so I've been reading up about it. I'm going to start him on Omega 3 fatty oil supplements as I've heard they can have pretty dramatic results in some kids. And they are not medication, just vitamin supplements.

Secondly I'm going to teach him sign language as that seems to help with communication. I'm getting the DVDs from www.signingtimes.com. That may not be suitable for your son as he can communicate but doesn't really want to. But being able to sign certainly helps with language development.

Finally it sounds to be a very mild form of autism if he interacts well with you and the rest of your family. And loads of people have mild autism that never get diagnosed - and yet go on to lead perfectly normal lives.

[IMA_FARANG]

The doctor diagnosed my son as having Autism today.

He's behind in language development & doesn't keep eye-to-eye contact much.

Obviously, this is all a shock as he's a great kid - very active, likes to play with other kids, likes to play with me & the wife, laughs a lot, is big & strong...

On the other hand, he can't concentrate on anything (except TV) for long & and will only answer a question if he really has to - for instance if he wants a certain type of food/drink/activity.

So - I'm not sure I really beleive the diagnosis yet - for sure we are looking for a second opinion.

Anyone have any experience in this ?

Anyone know any good doctors or therapists (autism/speech development) ?

Any advice at all ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My sister had an autistic child.

I noticed that he often seemed to respond to adults speaking to him in a "normal" voice as if the adults were yelling at him.

I persuaded my sister to speak to her son in a low voice, almost a whisper. She read stories to him, and he paid attention and watched her.

It turned out that he would often listen to her when she spoke very quietly, but reacted by crying when adults spoke to him in a "normal" voice.

Eventually a doctor realized her son had a abnormal sensitivity to spoken voices.

That didn't cure the autisim, but the teachers were able to help him with his schoolwork by speaking in a low voice and keeping the lights in the classroom at a reduced level. He was able to learn to read at a functional level by his teachers doing this.

Don't know if this would work for your child, but it is worth a try.

Edited June 26, 2005 by IMA_FARANG

[tutsiwarrior]

just finished 'The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time' by Mark Haddon that is a tale narrated by a 15 year old Asperger's kid. Sure, it's fiction but according to the accolades (Whitbread Book of the Year) not inconsiderable as an important read.

Have a look...ISBN no. 0 099 45025 9...my copy published by Vintage, 2004...

[Oleg_Rus]

Pedro, sorry to hear that, but may I share my opinion?

1. Friend of mine went to hospital with flue and moronic "doctor" said -"You've got HIV" - how about similar idiot, just watched "Sixth Sence" with B.Willis wants to sound smart and fashionably educated ?

2. Retalin, Prozac etc ... Are they out of their f*** mind ? Even Ozzy Osbourne rejected them on withdrawl as "creepy"...

3. Most of kids are being "zombi-fied" by TV programms, I don't know how - maybe subliminal messages, 25th or something else, or just passive consumption of information - instead of active involvement... I'd say "$##% TV" just ban it.

4. Pedro, how about there's no Autism , just lack of your attention ?

[aussman]

Hi...I am the proud father of a 21yo Autistic daughter (Aspergers). 15 of these years have been the most demanding emotionally, financially as we helped her through school, puberty, self harm, drugs, poor choice relationships etc. she now runs a large organization with poise and skill (medical history unknown to her employers) but still requires a lot of support (download time) in her off time.

both parents are teachers and when we began to notice that all was not well...we researched as much information on autism as was available (not much at the time)..and eventually found a psychologist in Brisbane, Australia..who was then a leading researcher in Aspergers. in consultation with him we started developing learned behaviour patterns....(NO DRUGS) we called it our "computer technique"..ie...programming in patterns of expected behaviour in a 'windows' format. she has learned to use this technique to live and work in an otherwise hostile enviroment for her and now develops her own windows for use in all situations...an so appears to function normally in most situations. she has a wonderful mind..it just works in a different way. this does not mean that things dont go south at times so there has to be a background of unconditional love and support for her.

i guess my point is that no matter how difficult things may become in bringing up an autistic child you must remain positive, loving and caring because you own relationship with your wife will be tested to its limits....3 months ago my daughter told me that she loved me...its the first time she has said that since she was 5 yo...''what a reward''

[Dakhar]

Pedro

I have a doctorate in Audiology. Audiologist deal with auditory receptive communication disorders, in other words hearing loss. But in our studies, we study a tremendous amount in the real of lang. disorders. As some have touched on already, children growing up in a bi-lingual environment often times have language delay.

Something else, how is your childs hearing? This too can cause a lang. delay. Your child should be speaking at least 2-3 word sentences by this time.

If you want some names of some good speech lang pathologist in BKK or other locations in Thailand I can get you that. Just PM me and let me know.

Good luck.

[bill1970]

Pedro,

I think I may have met your wife at Bangkok General in the pediatric center. She was there with your son. We exchanged stories about how our kids were not talking. If it wsn't your wife, then it is just another bilinbgual boy in Thailand who has speech delay.

My son has begun to use a lot of words thanks to some very good language videos for late speakers.

I am looking for a good speech pathologist now.

There are resources and support but every dau you wait is lost time.

There is also a great online support at grouo where I have gotten tons of ideas.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalLateTalkers/

I'd love to connect with you in BKK and discuss ideas - andmaybe get our kids together. My son is 3 too.