Adoption Of Thai Wifes Daughter With Other Issues

[gats13us]

We have a unique situation. My wife was born in 1974 in a small village, her mother never registered her birth. She now has a Thai Passport and Thai ID.

Prior to getting her passport and ID she had a daughter with a Thai husband that passed away.

Since my wife had no birth record at the time, Thai authorities made her list her sister as the mother of my wifes daughter.

We need to do two things

1. Show that her daughter really is her daughter

2. Get me listed as her father by adoption or other means.

This will have a great impact on her daughter for educational purposes later.

Please give suggestions and maybe a good attorney to contact.

Thanks

[Mario2008]

Moved to family section.

[Mario2008]

A good lawyer would be isaanlawyers. They are very good in Thai family law and you will need a competent lawyer to get this sorted out.

With DNA tests it should be possible to proof that she is indeed the mother.

The adoption is a whole different process, especially since you will need an international adoption. It means the adoption needs to be according to Thai law and to the law of your own country. You can't start this process till the parenthood of the mother has been established.

[aussiebebe]

I'm sorry if this seems a little rude, but please complete step 1 (as you wrote) about establishing the parentage of your spouse's daughter BEFORE you even consider further steps. The facts are that anyone can pay to have a DNA test - you need give no reason, nor hire any legal representatives so slow down a little bit; a good government hospital will do DNA tests. For example, Ramathibodi is a good public hospital Ramathibodi Hospital and the fee will only be 5000baht per person, there are many options.

I gave this advice because I've lived in Bangkok for a few years and I've heard all sorts of 'My husband died' stories. Tread carefully. Resist getting wrapped up in an adoption crusade and remember that the important thing is the relationship and love you already have with your wife and daughter. You can still love and support and be with them relatively easily without rushing into the legal route.

[BadBoyBubby]

I'm sorry if this seems a little rude, but please complete step 1 (as you wrote) about establishing the parentage of your spouse's daughter BEFORE you even consider further steps. The facts are that anyone can pay to have a DNA test - you need give no reason, nor hire any legal representatives so slow down a little bit; a good government hospital will do DNA tests. For example, Ramathibodi is a good public hospital Ramathibodi Hospital and the fee will only be 5000baht per person, there are many options.

I gave this advice because I've lived in Bangkok for a few years and I've heard all sorts of 'My husband died' stories. Tread carefully. Resist getting wrapped up in an adoption crusade and remember that the important thing is the relationship and love you already have with your wife and daughter. You can still love and support and be with them relatively easily without rushing into the legal route.

What rational and well thought out advice!

Makes such a nice change rather than the usual drivel that gets posted as a reply.

[gregb]

I am interested in hearing more about this. Is there any section available in Thai family law that would legally allow the mother to be changed except by adopting the child?

For example, let us say a DNA test definitively proved that the child was the genetic descendent of the OP's wife. Does it really matter? Can a judge legally change the mother of a child, and if so, under exactly what circumstances? If a DNA test can be used to justify this, does this mean that all the Thai women who currently have babies using gestational surrogates but are also in fact the genetic mother can legally apply to be considered the child's real mother?

This sounds like a fascinating and esoteric aspect of Thai law, and a decision in favour of the OP could have far reaching ramifications for thousands of Thai women who currently suffer a similar fate for different reasons. I just don't see any rule anywhere in Thai law that would allow any Thai court to change the legal mother. The OP's wife could adopt the child, sure, but what else is possible?

I don't think DNA makes any difference in this case. What the OP would need to do is get the original records from the hospital where his wife gave birth to the child and prove that she was the one who gestated and delivered the baby. The woman who gave birth to the child is considered the legitimate mother in Thailand. Genetics is irrelevant as far as I know.

Does someone have a different opinion?

[Mario2008]

It is a difficult question, but in your story you forget 1 important party: the child itself. I suspect the child will have more rights to be recognized by the biological mother. Also this is not a case of adoption, somebody else was registered as the mother. The question is if that was legal.

[gregb]

It is a difficult question, but in your story you forget 1 important party: the child itself. I suspect the child will have more rights to be recognized by the biological mother. Also this is not a case of adoption, somebody else was registered as the mother. The question is if that was legal.

That was most definitely NOT legal, and the hospital will likely be in seriously hot water with authorities for allowing it. There are no circumstances under which they are legally allowed to do that. They may have just been trying to be helpful, but they did break the law.

Your point as to the rights of the child is interesting and one I had not considered. But given the number of genetic mothers who are currently forced to legally adopt their own children from gestational surrogates today, I don't think this is an aspect the Thai courts are taking seriously.  Finding a judge who did base his decision on that fact would open the floodgates to many similar requests.  I'm not sure the Thai justice system is prepared for that. The OP needs to forget the DNA aspect and concentrate on proving who gave birth. 

I still think the place the OP needs to start this process is at the hospital where the mother gave birth. They committed a crime by changing the name of the mother, and he will need to expose this crime in order to get things fixed. I would not expect to receive significant cooperation in this venture. It is going to be a long road. This being Thailand the inclination of all parties will simply be to sweep the activity under the rug.  This would hardly be possible if the OP is successful in his quest.

[Paul888]

They are clearly 2 very different issues.

First step as has been stated is to establish legally that the "mother" IS actually the mother.

There is no point whatsoever in thinking past that at this stage until this step has been completed.

[gregb]

They are clearly 2 very different issues.

First step as has been stated is to establish legally that the "mother" IS actually the mother.

There is no point whatsoever in thinking past that at this stage until this step has been completed.

They are actually the same issue, just with different circumstances. What we are discussing is the legal definition of "mother". My understanding is that "mother" in Thai law means the person who gave birth to the child. Genetics is irrelevant, and thus a DNA test is irrelevant. There are lots of legal Thai "mothers" who are not genetic mothers. One does not imply the other. If the OP is to be successful, I believe he needs to show his wife was the one who gave birth, not that the child carries his wife's DNA.

I agree that the legal consequences of this case if my interpretation is not correct are tangential to his particular issue, but they are nevertheless related and worth thinking through. This case goes to the heart of how a Thai court determines who are the legal parents.

The OP's description to me sounds like the hospital committed a crime. Possibly with good intentions, but a crime nevertheless. That is going to have to be exposed, and that will make his struggle difficult.

However, if my understanding is incorrect, he needs to publish his results so that the thousands of women and children afflicted with the same problem through different circumstances can correct their issues. If as Mario suggests, the key issue is the child's right to have his genetic mother be recognized as his real mother, there are thousands of children suffering this same fate. If we are talking about a mixup due to a crime committed by the hospital, these other thousand children are not involved, however the approach the OP needs to take to resolve this case is completely different. He needs to expose the mixup and forget the DNA component.

I would love to hear a legal opinion by someone trained in family law in Thailand.

Edited June 23, 2010 by gregb

[Mario2008]

You're right. The person who provided the embryo cells is not per definition the same person who gave birth to the child. That can be two different persons. I'm not sure if Thai law has provisions for people who in this way give birth to a child for another person.

If the child was born in a hospital, the records should show who gave birth to the baby. There would also be a hospital "birth certificate". I would not start challanging the hopsital before you have these papers, as otherwise the documents might be hard to find. It might even be that the hospital was not at fault, it seems to come from the registrar at the amphur.

1 thing is sure. This is a case for a lawyer.