I'm unsure on many details but my girlfriend just found out that her mother's bank account (in deepest Phitsanulok), holding the family's savings of 400,000 baht, has been emptied (perhaps over some period of time) by two thieves using an ATM card (perhaps guessing at the pin number).

I'm told that the police have photos of the men (perhaps from ATM cameras) and that they are known in her area as kamoys. I suggested to her that the bank might reimburse her mother but she said "no". I asked what would happen to the men; she said if they were caught the police would kill them.

This prospect does not relieve the gloom and panic into which my girlfriend's large family has fallen.

For old hands in Thailand - if approached correctly, will the bank refill the emptied account?

Thanks.

I hope your not serious on that question.

OP

Just for the sake of argument, and assuming you were a private detective, how would you go about verifying the M-I-L's story?

Go see a Lawyer. I have had 2 sums taken from my now ex Bank (BKK) and was told they could get CCTV pictures,meet me at police station to investigate the fraud. I asked so if you can see YOUR bank has given MY money to some one else, will you repay me.......

The answer was NO! I promptly took all my money straight out of that Bank and never to return.

You only hope is with a good Lawyer IMHO. That is of course assuming the story is the truth!

Edited June 26, 201016 yr by Dave the Dude

ATM photos of kamoys, mother-in-law's testimony, kamonys' flight, subsequent capture (I just heard), possible denial (conflicting with ATM photos), possible confession. I think a sister will speak with the police tomorrow, advocating for the family.

very sad indeed-if true.

Make sure, that this is not another "All our Buffalos are sick" story.

A couple of questions need answering.

Did they clone the card or have physical possession of it

How did they know the pin number ?

Are these people known to you ?

If it looks like bullshit, smells like bullshit and sounds like bullshit - it is probably bullshit.

Go see a Lawyer. I have had 2 sums taken from my now ex Bank (BKK) and was told they could get CCTV pictures,meet me at police station to investigate the fraud. I asked so if you can see YOUR bank has given MY money to some one else, will you repay me.......

The answer was NO! I promptly took all my money straight out of that Bank and never to return.

You only hope is with a good Lawyer IMHO. That is of course assuming the story is the truth!

Dave, was your money stolen via ATM ?

'm unsure on many details but my girlfriend just found out that her mother's bank account (in deepest Phitsanulok), holding the family's savings of 400,000 baht, has been emptied (perhaps over some period of time) by two thieves using an ATM card (perhaps guessing at the pin number).

Pretty good guess given that an ATM retains the card after 3 attempts. Many details unclear, did they have possession of the card ? If it was cloned then given the location a lot of locals would be similarly affected and in those circumstances the bank, even a Thai Bank becomes liable.

If the card was stolen then they should not in those circumstances have had the pin unless it was written down, in that case no liability.

I would suspect your Father-In-Law.

Your post implies your girlfriend is your wife's sister.

In any case, it does sound like a buffalo story. Honestly, it's not really your problem. By trying to assist, you are injecting yourself into a situation that may make it worse for your girlfriend's mother. If the police know a foreigner is involved, things could get more expensive for you.

I know full well the firestorm that will erupt when I suggest the lonely and disoriented refrain from high jacking this thread further.

I would suspect your Father-In-Law.

And EVERY single one of his friends/relatives/drinking buddies/local police (who he's now able to easily butter up).

Because without specialized cloning gear, it's real, REAL hard to beat the PIN system.That's why it's used the world over. If it's good enough to protect customer's money at thousands of banks (in millions of ATMs) in hundreds of countries (even technologically advanced, 1st world ones), then I'm pretty sure it's good enough for Somchai Central.

Remember, there IS no honor among thieves.

And trust me, I have personal experience with how scrupulous and decent one member of a Thai family can be (in this case, the GF), and how utterly void of those attributes an immediate family member (of that GF) can be.

Lets just say that we should all consider ourselves lucky that pawn shops in Thailand seem to exhibit patience and a proclivity to retain items they buy for a long time, (possibly to avoid running into legal trouble for fencing stolen items) before trying to immediately resell them.

Edited June 26, 201016 yr by SiangDeeMahk

Has the OP been asked to help out financially since this has occurred?

Has the OP been asked to help out financially since this has occurred?

You could say the bank and the police are in on ripping the OP............ On a more serious note surely the bank has an obligation to recover the funds and pursue thetheives? Are Banks not bound to any international banking laws?

note to self ; continue to not go / use ATMS to / in "deepest Phitsanulok"

Tell girlfriend ...........

Not my mother/father

Mai Chi Paw chi mare

Most Thais will use this phrase when someone tries to involve them in other peoples business.

Seriously, you are in a foreign country, can't speak the language and they want you to help ......... WHY?

I would suspect your Father-In-Law.

And EVERY single one of his friends/relatives/drinking buddies/local police (who he's now able to easily butter up).

Because without specialized cloning gear, it's real, REAL hard to beat the PIN system.That's why it's used the world over. If it's good enough to protect customer's money at thousands of banks (in millions of ATMs) in hundreds of countries (even technologically advanced, 1st world ones), then I'm pretty sure it's good enough for Somchai Central.

Remember, there IS no honor among thieves.

And trust me, I have personal experience with how scrupulous and decent one member of a Thai family can be (in this case, the GF), and how utterly void of those attributes an immediate family member (of that GF) can be.

Lets just say that we should all consider ourselves lucky that pawn shops in Thailand seem to exhibit patience and a proclivity to retain items they buy for a long time, (possibly to avoid running into legal trouble for fencing stolen items) before trying to immediately resell them.

Actually cloning is quite easy, in Holland its done a lot and people loose loads of money. But you have to clone and make sure you get the pin number. This can be done with a mini camera or a touch pad on the keys of the machine they are using. BUT more people should be the victim then just one. They don't stop at one.

I would suspect your Father-In-Law.

And EVERY single one of his friends/relatives/drinking buddies/local police (who he's now able to easily butter up).

Because without specialized cloning gear, it's real, REAL hard to beat the PIN system.That's why it's used the world over. If it's good enough to protect customer's money at thousands of banks (in millions of ATMs) in hundreds of countries (even technologically advanced, 1st world ones), then I'm pretty sure it's good enough for Somchai Central.

Remember, there IS no honor among thieves.

And trust me, I have personal experience with how scrupulous and decent one member of a Thai family can be (in this case, the GF), and how utterly void of those attributes an immediate family member (of that GF) can be.

Lets just say that we should all consider ourselves lucky that pawn shops in Thailand seem to exhibit patience and a proclivity to retain items they buy for a long time, (possibly to avoid running into legal trouble for fencing stolen items) before trying to immediately resell them.

Actually cloning is quite easy, in Holland its done a lot and people loose loads of money. But you have to clone and make sure you get the pin number. This can be done with a mini camera or a touch pad on the keys of the machine they are using. BUT more people should be the victim then just one. They don't stop at one.

BZZZZZT!! (((FAIL!!!)))

::::sigh:::::

I didnt SAY "cloning was hard".. I SAID, it's hard to beat the PIN system WITHOUT cloning.

Read, people! It's FUNdimMENTAL.

I don't know how local banking laws protect account holders here. However, I did read recently (perhaps 2 months ago?) that the police are aware of and even arrested some people who had skimmed ATM cards with fairly simple devices they affix onto ATM machines. As someone else noted, they then use a mini camera to capture the account holder inputtting their PIN. Many ATMs nowadays have a 2 pronged warning: beware that nobody can see you inputting the PIN and ensure no unfamiliar device is attached to the card input slot of the ATM.

Perhaps the OP's m-i-l had her card skimmed? Does she still have her original ATM card?

To the OP,either way(whether its a con or true) i would not make it your problem.Can be sympathetic,but f they ask for help financially i would be wary or cautious.

How do the police know it was the two guys taking the money out of her account at that time, does the camera have a time stamp, which corresponds to the withdrawal time from the account?

Cards are cloned quite often, it has been widely reported on TV, I always check the slot where I insert my card, to see if it is okay.

And I never use a card at a Petrol Station, as this is the usual place to clone a card. They get the card, from you swipe it out of your view once for the bill and the other time in another machine to copy it, you enter the PIN Number, but do not notice an extra cable, connected to another machine which records the PIN Number, hey presto a valid card with PIN. Done in Bangkok on Vibhavadi Rangsit not so long ago, at a well known Petrol station.

I suggest checking the amount of cards issued, the dates and times of withdrawals, and where the card was used previous to these withdrawals, all information can be obtained from the Bank.

To answer the OP about "will she be reimbursed", that depends on the OP. If he does the reimbursement then yes, otherwise no

Most Thais I know have their PIN's in their Telephones, or in their wallet with the cards.

It is like passwords for Internet sites, most Thai's will use their phone numbers.

When I withdraw money from account via ATM, I will instantly receive a sms.

enough said

I had a few mates get this put on them as well - every time bar 1 its been a member of the family / friend robbing from their own. Only once it was down to a Malaysian gang who were doing ATM's in Pattaya - namely the SCB next to 7-11 top of Soi Diamond, walking street.

As another poster said get the sms notification option - then you can spot if something is wrong saved my friend with the Malaysian gang getting completely cleaned out.

I'd ask if the MIL ever loaned her card to another family member/friend to get money for her. It's not uncommon. Or, perhaps she wrote the number on the ATM protective sleeve, like so many Thais do. Or perhaps she used 1-2-3-4 as her PIN as many Thais do. I've seen Thais give their card to someone else (a friend/family member) to pay bills on their behalf (I suppose because they were too busy to do it themselves).

In any case, I'd suspect an inside job before I worried about ATM scanners and the like.

Good luck.

The OP has been scammed obviously. My advice is give the MIL another 400K

The OP has been scammed obviously. My advice is give the MIL another 400K

Think that is the plan but the OP doesn't know it yet.

Edited June 27, 201016 yr by Livinginexile