การที่เป็นเช่นนี้

[Briggsy]

การที่เป็นเช่นนี้

It seems to refer back to an event or condition in the previous sentence. I could not find any dictionary entry.

"The iodine solution that was dropped onto the hibiscus leaf will change colour to dark purple or blue-black. การที่เป็นเช่นนี้ due to the fact that when a plant has photosynthesised, it will have starch. The starch that the plant has made will react with the iodine solution. It will change the colour of the iodine solution to dark purple or black [sic]."

Can anyone parse the phrase, 'การที่เป็นเช่นนี้'?

Thanks.

[bhoydy]

I would guess something like - It changes like this due to......

It is referring to the previous sentence i think with the change of colour so if the first sentence is talking about เปลี่ยนสี i think the second sentence is explaining the reason for the change.

That's my take on it anyway. I think การ is referring to การเปลี่ยน although it doesn't specify it because it's already mentioned in the first sentence.

It would be nice to see the excerpt in Thai to get some perspective.

[mikenyork]

I read เฃ่น to mean vein. Does the darkening occur in the veins of the leaf?

[bhoydy]

I read เฃ่น to mean vein. Does the darkening occur in the veins of the leaf?

You seem to be obsessed with obsolete consonants at the moment.

I enlarged it on my screen and it definitely reads เช่น.

One question though, how did you know เฃ่น was vein as it's obsolete and difficult to look it up?

[Briggsy]

Indeed เช่นนี้ is what I typed. It means 'like this', 'in this way', 'as per this example', etc. depending on the context.

Can anybody parse the phrase? Since I have translated the remainder of the paragraph, anybody with no knowledge of Thai could guess at the meaning of การเป็นที่.

[rgs2001uk]

I read เฃ่น to mean vein. Does the darkening occur in the veins of the leaf?

You seem to be obsessed with obsolete consonants at the moment.

I enlarged it on my screen and it definitely reads เช่น.

One question though, how did you know เฃ่น was vein as it's obsolete and difficult to look it up?

We live and learn, I didnt know it was obsolete.

Couldnt even find it in my Se-Ed dictionary, had to look up the English word vein.

I hear this word used frequently in massage parlours or in a medical context so knew what it meant.

Guess nobody has told the Thais its obsolete.

[ThaiAdventure]

The reason that it's like this is....

Or from the context of the rest of your translation I would paraphrase as:

The reason for this is....

Edited June 29, 2010 by ThaiAdventure

[bhoydy]

I read เฃ่น to mean vein. Does the darkening occur in the veins of the leaf?

You seem to be obsessed with obsolete consonants at the moment.

I enlarged it on my screen and it definitely reads เช่น.

One question though, how did you know เฃ่น was vein as it's obsolete and difficult to look it up?

We live and learn, I didnt know it was obsolete.

Couldnt even find it in my Se-Ed dictionary, had to look up the English word vein.

I hear this word used frequently in massage parlours or in a medical context so knew what it meant.

Guess nobody has told the Thais its obsolete.

Interesting, what kind of consonant class is ฃ ?

[rgs2001uk]

I read เฃ่น to mean vein. Does the darkening occur in the veins of the leaf?

You seem to be obsessed with obsolete consonants at the moment.

I enlarged it on my screen and it definitely reads เช่น.

One question though, how did you know เฃ่น was vein as it's obsolete and difficult to look it up?

We live and learn, I didnt know it was obsolete.

Couldnt even find it in my Se-Ed dictionary, had to look up the English word vein.

I hear this word used frequently in massage parlours or in a medical context so knew what it meant.

Guess nobody has told the Thais its obsolete.

Interesting, what kind of consonant class is ฃ ?

Sorry Bhody, สายตายาวผิดเป็นผม.

Didnt realise the initial post was,ฃ่ read it as, ซ่.

Guess its now time to start enlarging the screen, sorry for any confusion.

ฃ is of course high class and is as you say obsolete, I assume that is ฃ ฃวด.

[kriswillems]

การที่เป็นเช่นนี้ means : the fact that it is like this

The sentence refers to the fact rather than the reason.

It is usually followed by ทำให้

การที่เป็นเช่นนี้ทำให้.... : the fact that it is like this makes....

Sometimes is followed by : (ก็)เพราะ(ว่า)

(การ)ที่เป็นเช่นนี้(ก็)เพราะ(ว่า)....: It's like this because of ....

เหตุที่เป็นเช่นนี้ means :the reason it's like this

เช่น is just another word for อย่าง in these sentences.

It's writing language and my teacher ever advised against using it. It just makes the text longer without adding new information. It's better to use more simple sentence constructions.

Edited June 29, 2010 by kriswillems

[Briggsy]

Kris Willems saves the day and the OP (that's me ) thanks him.

You can probably tell from my translation it is indeed followed by เพราะ.

Can't help noticing you are copying incorrect Thai English by using 'ever' as an adverb in an affirmative sentence. I find myself doing that too on occasion. It's almost certainly ungrateful of me to point it out.

[kriswillems]

Can't help noticing you are copying incorrect Thai English by using 'ever' as an adverb in an affirmative sentence. I find myself doing that too on occasion. It's almost certainly ungrateful of me to point it out.

Thanks. I'm not a native English speaker (and had only about 100 hours of English during my school-time) so I appreciate you're pointing this out. Which word should I use here in stead of "ever"?

[Briggsy]

Can't help noticing you are copying incorrect Thai English by using 'ever' as an adverb in an affirmative sentence. I find myself doing that too on occasion. It's almost certainly ungrateful of me to point it out.

Thanks. I'm not a native English speaker (and had only about 100 hours of English during my school-time) so I appreciate you're pointing this out. Which word should I use here in stead of "ever"?

The error, as I'm sure you're aware, stems from the Thai adverb(??), เคย, and the obsession with finding easy word-for-word translation so Thais very often simply place 'ever' before an infinitive e.g. "I ever go" for "ผมเคยไป". The native speaker has a number of choices; the top two being the past tense and the present perfect tense, "I went" and "I have gone". This example is complicated by the fact that depending on the situation, "I have been to.." is also an option.

In your case, "my teacher advised me...", "my teacher once advised me....", "my teacher has advised me...", etc.

Spreek je Nederlands?

[kriswillems]

Once! That's it. I knew there was something wrong with that sentence but I couldn't point out what.

Thanks for the explanation Briggsy.

I think pointing out the mistakes Thai people make in English also can help us to understand Thai grammar.

(Yes, I speak Dutch / Ja, ik spreek Nederlands.)

Edited June 30, 2010 by kriswillems