Pigs, Worms And Compost

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Farmers,

I have been experimenting with composting the manure from my pigs over the last few weeks and the results are very promising. The local villagers are already lining up to buy finished compost for next chilli season. Basically, chopped straw used as bedding then used to dry muck out the pens and straight into the compost bin. So now I have the compost sorted out all I need is some real top soil. I believe Charles Darwin stated you can't have topsoil if you dont have worms. Well I'm about to start conditioning the soil with the help of some compost worms, hopefully what few earthworms are around my area will get to hear of it and come join in.

Yesterday I took a trip to Roi Et to meet "Wormfarmer" and buy a couple of kilos of compost worms to start things off. I'm Australian and have for years been a Dynamic Lifter fan. These worm castings are as good as I've seen and I will grow a few test beds expecting results every bit as good as using good 'ol DL. I am hoping that I can use partially consumed compost in combination with the castings.

I was really impressed by Wormfarmers operation. Some time ago I like many TV members, was a bit discouraged by all the chat about a few scammers in the field but after seeing WF's operation my faith is restored. I have no hestitation in recommending it or its products to the membership. This is a serious, professional operation. Anyone who is interested in small to large quantities of wormcast or worms should go and take a look. WF has a web site and will EMS the products.

On the way home last night my "country girl" wife summed this stuff up when she said that this "pooee" would be good for people who like to grow things but don't like to play with "Kee Moo". Being an impatient bugger at times I also bought a 25 Kg sack of castings to use around the house to get a few "inedible" but pretty things growing for a change.

I also want to try using the worms themselves as a protein source for the pigs. As you may have noticed, this step to my "integrated farm" really has me excited.

Isaanaussie

[xen]

Sounds good mate.

You mentioned Worm Farmer has a website. Are you able to post it .

Thanks

[IsaanAussie]

Sounds good mate.

You mentioned Worm Farmer has a website. Are you able to post it .

Thanks

WF's website is listed in his profile. It is www.pennworms.com

IA

[IsaanAussie]

Well, yesterday saw the new "Worm Box" installed in one of the compost bins. I have put aged cow manure in half and the pig cmpost in the other half. I was a little fearful that the pig's offering may have been a little "warm" still so I figured the cow <deleted> would give them somewhere to escape to if needed. Time will tell.

While we were putting the worms in their new home my wife said she wanted to "take care some at home" so we put some into a plastic bag and brought thenm back to the house. Wormfarmer's wife had told her to leave the bag open so the worms could breath. During the day various offerings were made to the worms, banana skin etc... the shop customers were all very interested in the wriggling bag of worms and amazed at how fast the food was being consumed. I was just waiting for the candles to get lit and the "smell nice" sticks to be stuck into the bedding material.

Anyway the worms were still in the open bag last night, no sign of a container to put them in or any damp paper on top of the bedding and worms. For once I stayed silent. This morning when we got up, worms everywhere, I mean everywhere. Got to have been the best laugh I've had in ages. There she was, sliding a sheet of paper under each one and carefully putting it back in the bag. Of course that was my fault, I'm the one that should have known they would get out. TIT

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

I'm stunned...

A few minutes ago I had a visit from the PuYai and a half dozen villagers. They wanted to know what this magic fertiliser was and where it came from. Worms, yes they were all old enough to remember them but the fact that you could use their castings as fertiliser, what? Farang "gohocck" (lie) surely? I had purchased 25 kg from Wormfarmer and the locals here figured it would take "Lan Pee" or a million years for a worm to produce that much.

Wormfarmer, help! ..... My credibility is stuffed, so as the Thais would say, "It's all your fault."

Actually I'm just joking as this was just the reaction I was looking for. I'll dispense a small bag each for these guys and get them to grow something in it. Then we'll see if there is a potential market.

On the worms front, well it appears that the "airconditioned" wooden worm house I provided was a little too airconditioned and I spent part of the morning collecting a bunch of escapees. Need to pay more attention to closing off the netting and getting the moisture level right I suppose.

The wife's "flowerpot" worm house on the other hand is going great guns, a wetted cardboard lid has hers munching away on vegetable peelings and cow manure. Guess who is the expert on worms at our house now?

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

I'm stunned...

A few minutes ago I had a visit from the PuYai and a half dozen villagers. They wanted to know what this magic fertiliser was and where it came from. Worms, yes they were all old enough to remember them but the fact that you could use their castings as fertiliser, what? Farang "gohocck" (lie) surely? I had purchased 25 kg from Wormfarmer and the locals here figured it would take "Lan Pee" or a million years for a worm to produce that much.

Wormfarmer, help! ..... My credibility is stuffed, so as the Thais would say, "It's all your fault."

Actually I'm just joking as this was just the reaction I was looking for. I'll dispense a small bag each for these guys and get them to grow something in it. Then we'll see if there is a potential market.

On the worms front, well it appears that the "airconditioned" wooden worm house I provided was a little too airconditioned and I spent part of the morning collecting a bunch of escapees. Need to pay more attention to closing off the netting and getting the moisture level right I suppose.

The wife's "flowerpot" worm house on the other hand is going great guns, a wetted cardboard lid has hers munching away on vegetable peelings and cow manure. Guess who is the expert on worms at our house now?

Isaanaussie

[WormFarmer]

IA,

I am following your progress with great attention. Bye the way if your wife doesn't want her worms to escape from the open bag, leave it under a light at night. The worms won't come out into the light. That apart, tell your villagers that these compost worms will eat their own weight of organic matter per day to produce the worm castings. The local earthworms won't do that, they are too lazy to eat at that rate.

Cheers

WF

[IsaanAussie]

IA,

I am following your progress with great attention. Bye the way if your wife doesn't want her worms to escape from the open bag, leave it under a light at night. The worms won't come out into the light. That apart, tell your villagers that these compost worms will eat their own weight of organic matter per day to produce the worm castings. The local earthworms won't do that, they are too lazy to eat at that rate.

Cheers

WF

Pardon the pun but I'm glad you have "surfaced" Wormfarmer. I have a question for you. How much of the magic Kee do we use to raise salad vegetable seeds?

It seems now the household expert has been declared, "She" has taken over the test of worm castings. The women will do "Ching Ching". "Man no good grow Ching Ching! Drunk too much, put, but not take care "took won" (everyday). "

IA

[WormFarmer]

Pardon the pun but I'm glad you have "surfaced" Wormfarmer. I have a question for you. How much of the magic Kee do we use to raise salad vegetable seeds?

It seems now the household expert has been declared, "She" has taken over the test of worm castings. The women will do "Ching Ching". "Man no good grow Ching Ching! Drunk too much, put, but not take care "took won" (everyday). "

IA

Hi IA,

1 part wormcast to 4 parts ordinary soil or potting compost (which should not be considered as a fertiliser or even as a plant nutrient, it's just a bedding material) should do the trick. The mistake that my wife always makes is to use too much wormcast, and that is not as good as keeping the volume of wormcast down to about 20%!

Let me know the results of Her ching-ching tests.

WF

[RedBullHorn]

I'm stunned...

A few minutes ago I had a visit from the PuYai and a half dozen villagers. They wanted to know what this magic fertiliser was and where it came from. Worms, yes they were all old enough to remember them but the fact that you could use their castings as fertiliser, what? Farang "gohocck" (lie) surely? I had purchased 25 kg from Wormfarmer and the locals here figured it would take "Lan Pee" or a million years for a worm to produce that much.

Hi Wormfarmer, have you started selling them worms already?...coz a while back i remember that you are not ready to go into worms retail business yet...^^''

[IsaanAussie]

WF,

I believe the pig/straw compost and your worm castings are about to get tested by the ladies today (Thailand today that is). A small patch of garden in the front of the house. High visibility for both people and the daily two way journeys of the cows and buffalos (garden trimmers). We shall see what happens.

As a footnote, my worm box seems to be working OK. Unfortunately is now co-habited by a scorpion that said hello to my left index finger yesterday. I don't know if any of you guys has ever been bitten by one, but man, does it ever smart. Finger still has a pins and needles feeling this morning. Ouch!

On the compost heap front, I have been running it fairly dry and the rate of decomposition was quite good, and temperature around 60 C I guess. Then it rained and the heap got wetted down. Almost saturated but the drainage is good. WOW, has it taken off now. The leachate is collecting in the compost tea pots on the ends of the drains. As I was checking one the other day I noticed a large frog sitting in the bottom of it. So I rescued him with the rake. He jumped straight back in, up to you i thought. Last evening the resident was receiving guests. There must have been fifteen smaller frogs all facing outwards around the perimeter of the teapot. Playing blind mans bluff I suppose, they all seemed to be counted away in frogganise.

Will keep your posted.

Isaanaussie

[WormFarmer]

WF,

I believe the pig/straw compost and your worm castings are about to get tested by the ladies today (Thailand today that is). A small patch of garden in the front of the house. High visibility for both people and the daily two way journeys of the cows and buffalos (garden trimmers). We shall see what happens.

IA,

I've been off-air for a while travelling back to my day job and catching up on events. I shall be interested to see the comparison between the compost and wormcasting but would expect the castings to win.

Cheers - WF

[IsaanAussie]

Wormfarmer,

Nothing much to report so far. As expected the ladies experiments have mostly been delayed. One woman reported yesterday that all her plants had died in the compost but I haven't gone to take a look yet. I doubt she actually worked the stuff into the soil, probably just heaped it up around each seedling. I will ask the wife if that lady actually had been given any of the worm castings and if so, how did she use it.

I will give them a little longer than have a proper go at it myself. People around here don't do much composting that I have seen, the nearest they come is topdressing with dried, well rotted cow manure and a few add a layer of chopped straw to conserve moisture. I have demonstrated how to incorporate compost but as I am after all only a farang, I doubt my "hard work" method will be adopted any time soon.

The worms seem to be enjoying their new home though. I must have the moisture content about right now as I don't have any escapees any more.

Isaanaussie.

[IsaanAussie]

Yesterday evening I disturbed the worm box to see what was happening. When I visited Wormfarmers operation the worms were feeding near the surface and castings covered the top of each bin. Mine seems to be as it had been since the start.

Just under the surface sure enough there were the worms and a fair amount of castings. All is well in worm city.

[IsaanAussie]

Wormfarmer,

I admit to being a bit of a sceptic, but in this case I was wrong. Mate, those worms of yours are a-blanky-blank-mazing. They have eaten the whole compost pile and left a stack of castings. If I remember correctly, you told me that they would eat the contents of a large concrete ring of manure in six months, forget that, its only a month since I bought them and 75% is gone. The worms, themselves, are enormous. Vermicompost here I come.

Isaanaussie

[WormFarmer]

Wormfarmer,

I admit to being a bit of a sceptic, but in this case I was wrong. Mate, those worms of yours are a-blanky-blank-mazing. They have eaten the whole compost pile and left a stack of castings. If I remember correctly, you told me that they would eat the contents of a large concrete ring of manure in six months, forget that, its only a month since I bought them and 75% is gone. The worms, themselves, are enormous. Vermicompost here I come.

Isaanaussie

IA,

Well done, sounds like you are mollycoddling the worms, but keep at it. When I get back full time I want to come down and see your whole operation.

Cheers, WormFarmer

[IsaanAussie]

Yesterday I had two of the pig sty septic tanks pumped out to check the sediment level after three months in operation, the theotherical desludging period. Each tank holds 1,500 litres and I was surprised to see the bottom 25% was full of sediments since most of the wastes are dry mucked out. Well when I do it at least. Anyway as soon as the truck arrived so did the "takers" a couple of farmers who wanted the tanker to dump the load on their land.

It was also pleasing that there was no sediment in the second chamber of the tank despite the fast throughput. I believe the retention time in the septic tank is about three to five days at a minimum. After 3 months the scum blanket on top of the waste was about 5cm thick. This was easily removed as it was bound together by small pieces of straw used in the pens that had worked through the filters.

Although it only costs 200 baht per tank, there are 6 tanks and justifying a sludge pump is getting easier. But try as I might I havent been able to find one.

Anyone got any ideas on which type of pump available around Isaan would be capable of lifting the slurry, where is it, and a rough idea of cost?

Ideally I want to pump the water out first then pump the solid fractions on a sand filter/drier bed to drain it for use in fertiliser in combination with the compost.

Oh yeah, now definitely a huge fan of EM. Practically no smell from the septic system at all.

I have also been playing with the wash water volume to establish an upper limit for the soakaway system. It appears I will need about 100 metres of drains.

Isaanaussie.

[IsaanAussie]

I said I would report progress on the compost, well here it is.

Today I mixed up some potting mix by combining our normal composted pig manure and some vermicompost and was amazed at the result. So I thought why not see who is interested in town. Off to the best plant nusery to talk business.

We walked into the nursery and the boss wasnt there, so we showed them what we had and said we wanted them to try first. I gave them about 8kg of potting mix and a kg of worm casts. I thought nothing ventured etc.. While the wife was weaving her magic two women appeared and listened in, How much? Sell for me? You have more? Money changes hands and what was a free sample is halved.

Then another guy turns up and trunks in on the proceedings, he wants the other half of the samples. Sorry cannot says the person left in charge of the nursery, why not says me. But the reduced samples are away into the office and this guy, under protest, buys that sandy root filled rubbish that is the usual offerring.

We also tried at the feed store, the old Chinese lady that owns the place went all Chinese on us but a young woman that works for her went ape-sh1t over the wormcasts and started telling her boss what a great deal it was. All she got was a steely eye... we will drop a sample off there next pig food run after I decide who should benefit more. Got a feeling that one is a loss leader.

So it appears that the old Aussie Battler may just have kicked a goal. What a pleasant change. Every little bit helps.

Isaan Aussie

[IMA_FARANG]

I just read through thia thread. It's amazing how fast the supposedly "stupid" Issan farmers latched on to the obvious advantage shown by the wormcasts. Maybe some of the Bangkok elite that have previously posted on this forum that think all Issan farmers ar dumb, should reconsider their opinion in that regard.

I also find it fascinating that the women seem to have taken over the idea and made it their work/project.

In India a bank that loans small amounts of money to poor farmers to improve their farms has shown that women have a much better repayment rate for those small (but a signifigant amount of money to the very poor farmers invovled) debts. Women are much more concened with their family than men it seems (from the Indian bank's experience).

It seems that may also apply to Thailand...at least to farmers in Issan.

And congratulations, guys, for helping to change the image of the "Farang", at least in a small way.

Edited November 3, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Scully]

I am always fascinated by your posts Issan Aussie, you make me feel like I am farming one hundred years ago when I see your farm and systems.

We simply dry the pig poo in the sun at he end of the land which takes about two days to dry and we sell for 20baht a big bag.

We bought a 4800baht petrol pump which empties all the water, urine and a little sludge out of the slurry pit into a large hole we dug at the top of the garden, this works now however we have no rain (yes we are lucky) and it simply drains into the ground. Add a little EM and there is no smell whatsoever.

Maybe once every month we have to clear a little of the thick sluge at the bottom of the slurry pit to stop the pump blocking but no problems so far.

This pump pumps about 2 rai away from the farm but the sucking filter needs cleaning every use as leaves etc get sucked into it, no problem its a 2 minute job.

Keep the ideas coming as there always appreciated so we can pinch some of your ideas.

[IsaanAussie]

I am always fascinated by your posts Issan Aussie, you make me feel like I am farming one hundred years ago when I see your farm and systems.

We simply dry the pig poo in the sun at he end of the land which takes about two days to dry and we sell for 20baht a big bag.

We bought a 4800baht petrol pump which empties all the water, urine and a little sludge out of the slurry pit into a large hole we dug at the top of the garden, this works now however we have no rain (yes we are lucky) and it simply drains into the ground. Add a little EM and there is no smell whatsoever.

Maybe once every month we have to clear a little of the thick sluge at the bottom of the slurry pit to stop the pump blocking but no problems so far.

This pump pumps about 2 rai away from the farm but the sucking filter needs cleaning every use as leaves etc get sucked into it, no problem its a 2 minute job.

Keep the ideas coming as there always appreciated so we can pinch some of your ideas.

Scully,

A friend next door in Suphanburi used to buy dried pig manure for 20baht and used it to grow sunflowers in front of his shop. I was impressed with the results. I dont see a market around me for it though as most farmers rely on their own cow manure. My base compost was being sold to locals for vegetable growing at 40 baht per bag so i suppose I am old fashioned as I was getting about ten bags per heap which needed to turned 4 or 5 times, hard slog for a nett return of 200 baht more than you.

I bit the bullet and purchased a three inch submersible sewage pump made in Italy. It is great and can handle all the sediment with ease. I still dont pump the septic tanks as I want to complete the filter/catch tanks first. Instead I actually pump from the inspection/soakaway pit that the effluent from the septic goes into. So I am pumped black water into the fish pond but very little solid.

Another change has been to move from bedding on straw to using rice hull. This has meant a large reduction in water and wastes going into the septic. I am now "wet" mucking out I suppose. The hulls soak up some of the urine but most pools so I add a bit more hull at collection usually the stuff from the laying areas that has vecome a bit fouled and damp.

Final change to the compost is boosting the carbon content, again using rice hulls but carbonised first. I sometimes use it in the stys as well to eliminate smells but generally the rice hulls do pretty well at that. With more of the total excrement captured, and a wetter mix I dump it into the compost bin and apply a layer of Carbonised rice hulls which soaks up most of the moisture. Final result is the first stage of composting is much hotter and faster with almost no ammonia releases. Within a few days the straw is gone, When the compost normalises the predominate item is rice hulls which containing lignen are slow to decompose but keep the compost very well aerated.

I have toyed with using sawdust but have been convinced that it actually ties up the nitrogen in the compost so isnt really the way to go.

I have just finished a batch of potting mix with 40% compost and 60% vermicompost residual after the castings have been sifted. Now that is the business and will be sold at considerably more that the standard mix.

[IsaanAussie]

In the last few days I have started a new compost box that contains nothing but rice hulls and pig excrements. To these muckout materials, as collected I have been adding carbonised rice hulls as the only fast acting carbon source. Wet fresh manure and urine and no smell, no ammonia fumes and plenty of heat. So chemists and composters, where from here?

All comments and advise welcome as the last time I did this I started adding plenty of straw despite the fact that within a few days I had fungal growth and plenty of heat.

Edited November 4, 2010 by IsaanAussie

[IsaanAussie]

Last week I told you I had started using CRH (carbonised rice hulls) with raw manure and the rice hulls placed in the pens. OK heres the progress report.

Add in chopped straw and more of the daily dos and more carbonised hulls until there is 3- 4 days in the pile. Each day that was turned and combined with the new inputs and finally given a daily spray with EMA. Total about a cubic metre. Time to start a new pile and leave the first one sit for the next three to four days.

Today I started pile number3. The first one looks like a pile of loam, magnificent and in a week, almost no sign of the original component parts already. No the composting is not finished but this first batch has cut at least a week from my normal cycle. If I was just wanting to build top soil volume without planting or feeding existing planted soils, I would have spread it today instead of moving it into the second stage box.

With two 3 box compost bins and alternating input boxes, that means the first load will be in the second box for a week, I plan to turn the pile once, then turn it into the third box in that bank, again turned in that box once in the elapsed week, then move it into a cool off/ drying area on the floor of the pig sty.

The speed of my initial composting amazed me, four weeks from the pen to the bag. Six times faster than ever in Oz. Now I am inside 3 weeks and my 12 cubic metre capacity is not the limiting factor it was. As the number of pigs increases so will the need to build more boxes or move to windrows which may be a way of producing the quantity and improve my own soil at the same time. But right now there is a line of customers, and more importantly a line of people who after threshing their rice want to trade bags of broken (chopped) straw for compost to grow chili, I have about 8 cubic metres of compost ready to go and need the room to move into this new carbon enriched compost. Now I need to add a real thank you to TV member FAB58 who has moved me in this direction.

Worms, another part of the saga. The percentageof castings we are achieving is far past what I hoped for. The compost fraction is good for making potting mix for flowers and shrubs but commercially, unknown as to if the locals will pay for it as the nursery waste at 20 baht for 5kg seems to be all there is. Castings are rocket fuel for bacterial treatments.

Manure based compost being fungal is the perfect balance. Both vermi and manure compost and the compost and vermi teas are covered. Drenches and foliar sprays are both showing positive signs. More as it happens.

To other pig farmers, mate, this is seriously hard work but the returns against just hosing the excrements into the pond are real. Either in improving your own soils or in improving the return from each and every pig. If you could fill every feed bag and sell it for 40 baht, what would it do to your bottom line?

Isaan Aussie

[Scully]

As a footnote, my worm box seems to be working OK. Unfortunately is now co-habited by a scorpion that said hello to my left index finger yesterday. I don't know if any of you guys has ever been bitten by one, but man, does it ever smart. Finger still has a pins and needles feeling this morning. Ouch!

Isaanaussie

I got stung by one in bed last night at 3.30am, no sleep since as there is too much pain.

It crawled over my leg so I grabbed it to try and crush and kill it, being dark and not knowing what it was I got stabbed twice on my hand.

Its was a first for me and hopefully the last, tonight I am sleeping in a body bag.

Jep.

[WormFarmer]

Hi Wormfarmer, have you started selling them worms already?...coz a while back i remember that you are not ready to go into worms retail business yet...^^''

Hi RBH, I am sorry I missed seeing your post before, my full time job keeps me quite busy and I don't always have time to read TV. All that will change in December, when I quit this job and return to live full time in LOS. To answer your question; yes we can now sell small quantities of worms, mixed African nightcrawlers, Indian blues and tiger worms. Having said that, we are not yet geared up to send by post so we only sell to people who come personally to buy like IssanAussie did. That has the advantage of keeping sales of worms quite small and preserving our stock for their main job of producing wormcast.

[IsaanAussie]

As a footnote, my worm box seems to be working OK. Unfortunately is now co-habited by a scorpion that said hello to my left index finger yesterday. I don't know if any of you guys has ever been bitten by one, but man, does it ever smart. Finger still has a pins and needles feeling this morning. Ouch!

Isaanaussie

I got stung by one in bed last night at 3.30am, no sleep since as there is too much pain.

It crawled over my leg so I grabbed it to try and crush and kill it, being dark and not knowing what it was I got stabbed twice on my hand.

Its was a first for me and hopefully the last, tonight I am sleeping in a body bag.

Jep.

Yesterday was a big day moving compost around the system and in the process I came across two huge black scorpions. Not at all like the little one that bit me. Thankly the pitch fork out gunned their barbs. Now its me two them one, and I would gladly say enough is enough, lets just go our seperate ways. Hope you get better quickly if not head to the doctor, I got very close to going after the first twelve hours.

IA

[WormFarmer]

Yesterday was a big day moving compost around the system and in the process I came across two huge black scorpions. Not at all like the little one that bit me. Thankly the pitch fork out gunned their barbs. Now its me two them one, and I would gladly say enough is enough, lets just go our seperate ways. Hope you get better quickly if not head to the doctor, I got very close to going after the first twelve hours.

IA

Hi IA,

That must have been a bit of a scare. So far we have never come across any scorpions in our worm beds, but it is something to watch out for, I'll also warn all our workers to take care. I have only ever seen one scorpion at our place, and that was sleeping under (fortunately not in) a shoe outside the back door to the house.

WF

[RedBullHorn]

Hi RBH, I am sorry I missed seeing your post before, my full time job keeps me quite busy and I don't always have time to read TV. All that will change in December, when I quit this job and return to live full time in LOS. To answer your question; yes we can now sell small quantities of worms, mixed African nightcrawlers, Indian blues and tiger worms. Having said that, we are not yet geared up to send by post so we only sell to people who come personally to buy like IssanAussie did. That has the advantage of keeping sales of worms quite small and preserving our stock for their main job of producing wormcast.

I gave mine away to a neighbour so i could stop the wife's whinning

Edited November 10, 2010 by RedBullHorn

[IsaanAussie]

I have made statements about making compost quickly etc so I thought I would post a few pictures of what I'm up to. The attached is a brief I prepared from a customer who wishes to improve the soil in his orchard. It also refers to mulchers and cultivators that are among the better built units available near us. It might be usual to others.

I would be interested in the opinions of everybody. As usual, all ears like a bag of wheat.

A picture or a thousand words.pdf

Isaan Aussie.