Thailand - No Longer A Cheap Retirement Destination

[trogers]

Average price of gold in 2005, about $445/oz. (8400 Baht/baht weight). Average price of gold this year, about $1200 USD (18,400 Baht/baht weight).

I remember gold prices were once in the 800s and then fell below the 400 point. What hedging will you make that prices are 1200 today and will not fall below 800 by year end?

You don't, because that won't happen. This isn't the 80's. If you think it is, then do nothing, keep holding your fiat and you can join the chorus with everyone else about how expensive Thailand is becoming.

This line of thinking seems very familiar. I think it was deeply expressed a decade ago, and a sizable herd of investors followed. I recall it was then about The New Economy and the Nasdaq...

[CaptHaddock]

Good point, Pib.  We need to maintain a residence in the states so my wife does not lose her permanent resident status.  If I should die before her, she would not be able to collect my social security benefits if she is no longer a permanent resident.  I will obviously research further but I am also assuming that I will have to pay Virginia state tax because I will be receiving a state government pension from Virginia.

I don't believe that receiving a state pension from VA establishes residence for tax purposes in VA.  There was Supreme Court case a few years ago where CA had tried that and they lost.  However, VA is probably the most aggressive state on collecting income tax from expats.  They take the view that you remain a VA resident until such time as you establish legal residence in another STATE, not country.  That said, you should get a lawyer and find a solution.  It would be tragic to pay income tax to VA for decades after you have left.

Your strategy for your wife is not a good one, although your motivation is.  She should get her US citizenship.  Then she can inherit your SS benefits and any IRAs you have without a problem.  She is not entitled to keep her green card after living abroad after a year.  Since BCIS and the VA state govt have different standards for different purposes it seems to be possible to run afoul of both govt levels.  BCIS may decide she is committing fraud, for example.  

We are moving from NY to Thailand next year and will not be paying state and city income tax, which totals at a rate > 10%.  My Thai wife is a US citizen.  NY state is not a problem like VA.

   

[Buckeye911]

Good point, Pib. We need to maintain a residence in the states so my wife does not lose her permanent resident status. If I should die before her, she would not be able to collect my social security benefits if she is no longer a permanent resident. I will obviously research further but I am also assuming that I will have to pay Virginia state tax because I will be receiving a state government pension from Virginia.

I don't believe that receiving a state pension from VA establishes residence for tax purposes in VA. There was Supreme Court case a few years ago where CA had tried that and they lost. However, VA is probably the most aggressive state on collecting income tax from expats. They take the view that you remain a VA resident until such time as you establish legal residence in another STATE, not country. That said, you should get a lawyer and find a solution. It would be tragic to pay income tax to VA for decades after you have left.

Your strategy for your wife is not a good one, although your motivation is. She should get her US citizenship. Then she can inherit your SS benefits and any IRAs you have without a problem. She is not entitled to keep her green card after living abroad after a year. Since BCIS and the VA state govt have different standards for different purposes it seems to be possible to run afoul of both govt levels. BCIS may decide she is committing fraud, for example.

We are moving from NY to Thailand next year and will not be paying state and city income tax, which totals at a rate > 10%. My Thai wife is a US citizen. NY state is not a problem like VA.

Thanks for your comments, CaptHaddock. I would hope that we can return to the states often enough to maintain her green card status but I realize at some point that would become quite a burden. My fear is that if she becomes a US citizen she will no longer be able to own real property in Thailand. Currently she owns a house and another parcel of land, we own another parcel of land jointly. I have attempted to research this a little but have not been able to find anything definitive as to whether Thailand permits dual citizenship. Some say yes and some say no, I guess I should consult an attorney the next time we are in Thailand.

[nakachalet]

buckeye911.... are you a true blood buckeye graduate?

there have been abundant postings in reference to thai citizen and dual citizenship ....

relax buckeye, your spouse will have no problem whatever at all in thailand to own thai real properties and otherwise.... and whatever else you wish to purchase for her and own....

there are many returning affluent thais who both own land and properties in other more liberated countries and also in thailand....

in general these folks are rather quiet.... like < มีดคมในฝัก > sword hiding its sharp edge, not bragging about it.... and there are many many of such individuals in our circle of friends....

when your wife does hold an u.s. passport, she would be joining this less than <1% of affluent thai population.... having the privilege of owning real properties in more than one country....

i am certain by then she would also become even smarter pertaining to thai and farang stuff .... :jap:

just ascertain that her permanent residency does not expire.... and apply for her naturalization status just as soon as the laws permit.... alright?

but how does your post--I would hope that we can return to the states often enough to maintain her green card status but I realize at some point that would become quite a burden.

just why would returning to the states occasionally to satisfy the immigration requirements becomes quite a burden....? don't quite understand that part though....

Good point, Pib. We need to maintain a residence in the states so my wife does not lose her permanent resident status. If I should die before her, she would not be able to collect my social security benefits if she is no longer a permanent resident. I will obviously research further but I am also assuming that I will have to pay Virginia state tax because I will be receiving a state government pension from Virginia.

I don't believe that receiving a state pension from VA establishes residence for tax purposes in VA. There was Supreme Court case a few years ago where CA had tried that and they lost. However, VA is probably the most aggressive state on collecting income tax from expats. They take the view that you remain a VA resident until such time as you establish legal residence in another STATE, not country. That said, you should get a lawyer and find a solution. It would be tragic to pay income tax to VA for decades after you have left.

Your strategy for your wife is not a good one, although your motivation is. She should get her US citizenship. Then she can inherit your SS benefits and any IRAs you have without a problem. She is not entitled to keep her green card after living abroad after a year. Since BCIS and the VA state govt have different standards for different purposes it seems to be possible to run afoul of both govt levels. BCIS may decide she is committing fraud, for example.

We are moving from NY to Thailand next year and will not be paying state and city income tax, which totals at a rate > 10%. My Thai wife is a US citizen. NY state is not a problem like VA.

Thanks for your comments, CaptHaddock. I would hope that we can return to the states often enough to maintain her green card status but I realize at some point that would become quite a burden. My fear is that if she becomes a US citizen she will no longer be able to own real property in Thailand. Currently she owns a house and another parcel of land, we own another parcel of land jointly. I have attempted to research this a little but have not been able to find anything definitive as to whether Thailand permits dual citizenship. Some say yes and some say no, I guess I should consult an attorney the next time we are in Thailand.

[CaptHaddock]

Thanks for your comments, CaptHaddock.  I would hope that we can return to the states often enough to maintain her green card status but I realize at some point that would become quite a burden.  My fear is that if she becomes a US citizen she will no longer be able to own real property in Thailand.  Currently she owns a house and another parcel of land, we own another parcel of land jointly.  I have attempted to research this a little but have not been able to find anything definitive as to whether Thailand permits dual citizenship. Some say yes and some say no,  I guess I should consult an attorney the next time we are in Thailand.

Although I am not in Thailand, I have read repeated assurances that Thais with dual citizenship have no difficulties with owning property.  Prior to the 1997 Constitution she would not have had property rights, but not since.

On the other hand, simply returning to the states to maintain a residence is not cheap and is probably violating the law since your actual residence is Thailand.  If your wife has had the green card for 3 years she can apply for citizenship, which is relatively fast these days and actually easier to get than the green card.  The Thais are lucky in being able to hold dual citizenship unlke the Chinese or Koreans who lose their native citizenship when they obtain US citizenship.  If your wife is living abroad and loses her green card (which what BCIS intends) she will have a very hard time getting a second shot at citizenship.  Especially, if she is younger than you, her lifetime benefit from SS could be very large.  When she reaches Full Retirement Age (depends on her birth year, but probably 66 or 67) she qualifies for half of your SS benefit which she receives for her life unless you die before she does, in which case she inherits your full SS benefit.  For that reason if you can afford to wait until age 70 to collect then you receive about 132% of your FRA benefit and her spousal and widow's benefits go up accordingly.   All plus SS's inflation adjustment.  I think your plan of trying to maintain her green card status when the BCIS does not want her to have it jeopardizes her lifetime SS benefits.  Very risky in my opinion and not worth it.

Also, I think having dual citizenship is a good hedge for the future.  You never know what might happen.

In any case, good luck with your plans.

[craigt3365]

Good point, Pib. We need to maintain a residence in the states so my wife does not lose her permanent resident status. If I should die before her, she would not be able to collect my social security benefits if she is no longer a permanent resident. I will obviously research further but I am also assuming that I will have to pay Virginia state tax because I will be receiving a state government pension from Virginia.

I don't believe that receiving a state pension from VA establishes residence for tax purposes in VA. There was Supreme Court case a few years ago where CA had tried that and they lost. However, VA is probably the most aggressive state on collecting income tax from expats. They take the view that you remain a VA resident until such time as you establish legal residence in another STATE, not country. That said, you should get a lawyer and find a solution. It would be tragic to pay income tax to VA for decades after you have left.

Your strategy for your wife is not a good one, although your motivation is. She should get her US citizenship. Then she can inherit your SS benefits and any IRAs you have without a problem. She is not entitled to keep her green card after living abroad after a year. Since BCIS and the VA state govt have different standards for different purposes it seems to be possible to run afoul of both govt levels. BCIS may decide she is committing fraud, for example.

We are moving from NY to Thailand next year and will not be paying state and city income tax, which totals at a rate > 10%. My Thai wife is a US citizen. NY state is not a problem like VA.

Thanks for your comments, CaptHaddock. I would hope that we can return to the states often enough to maintain her green card status but I realize at some point that would become quite a burden. My fear is that if she becomes a US citizen she will no longer be able to own real property in Thailand. Currently she owns a house and another parcel of land, we own another parcel of land jointly. I have attempted to research this a little but have not been able to find anything definitive as to whether Thailand permits dual citizenship. Some say yes and some say no, I guess I should consult an attorney the next time we are in Thailand.

As was stated, dual citizenship is no problem. My wife leaves here with her Thai passport, arrives in the US with her USA one, and does the reverse coming back. All in full view of the immigration agents. We have quite a few friends who are dual citizens of Thailand and another country. No worries at all. And the benefits of a USA passport are huge. Travel is now a breeze vs. a real pain with a Thai passport!

[nakachalet]

.... If your wife has had the green card for 3 years she can apply for citizenship,

In any case, good luck with your plans.

capthaddock

senility creeps up up quickly on me....

it seems that the immigration has modified to require minimally 5 or 6 yrs of CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY for a greencard holder to apply for naturalization.... ?

my memory could betray me again....

[PattayaParent]

If you have to sell your property for less, then you most likely have been speculating rather than investing. This case is most probably due to property cycles. Bought near the peak and sell during the downturn. Property cycles in many countries have a duration of 9-12 years. The recent cycle in Thailand can be trekked at peaking in 1996 before the Tom Yum Kung crisis and then a pickup in 2003 and another crash in 2008. And we know property prices can crash up to 40%, between peak and bottom prices.

But if you are to gauge comparative prices over 20 years, or two property cycles, you will find that subsequent peak prices (or bottom prices) will always be higher than the previous peak (or bottom). That's your hedge against inflation.

It sounds like you've never heard of negative equity, and it's effect on a great number of home owners, as opposed to speculators.

And when it comes time to sell up to fund your retirement and the property prices drop 20-25% making it impossible, it's really no consolation that you are better off than the last recession, when you weren't able to retire either.

And you again fail to take into account people that can't afford to own property.

Negative equity will not affect homeowners who do not over borrow. In my generation, we have never thought of buying an over-expensive place at 90% financing with 25-30 years mortgage period.

We were max at 80% for 15 years. Yes, I am in my 50s. We were able to pay back the loan through one property cycle. My first condo in Bangkok was bought in 1994 at 65% and 10-year mortgage. Tom Yum Kung crisis hit in 1997. Never had a problem with my installment even with negative equity, though the quantum of negative equity was less than 5% due to borrowing only 65%.

Agree. Negative equity or being "under water" only works against you when you can't make the mortgage payments. If you are looking to live in and not invest/speculate, then it shouldn't really matter what price you paid for it since you are using the place to live and can afford it. I'm kind of surprised by all these new condos that are taken up by speculators, I guess its money chasing money..I wouldn't want to buy from these speculators anyways, just gives them more reason to buy and sell. TIT

Mortgages, at whatever rate and duration, can be used to calculate the total impact of negative equity. People never take into account the total purchase price of their property, only the initial price paid to the seller. But when you add in all the mortgage interest payments of x% over x years the ACTUAL purchase price can be 2.5X the initial price, and more.

So you paid the seller 100k and over the x years of paying off mortgages you have actually paid 200k but the market value of the property is only 150k. That's negative equity.

Or you paid the seller 100k and over the x years of paying off mortgages you have actually paid 200k and the market value of the property is 250k, but when it comes time to sell to retire the market has crashed and the value is 165k (30% drop). Negative equity again

Nothing to do with speculators, purely affects homeowners.

The theory of market cycles only works when you use the comparison to the peaks and troughs of inflation over the same period to determine if there has been a 'hedge against inflation' or not, but of course inflation is never a -ve number so there are no troughs, and as I said above you have to also adjust for ACTUAL cost not just look at market value.

[craigt3365]

.... If your wife has had the green card for 3 years she can apply for citizenship,

In any case, good luck with your plans.

capthaddock

senility creeps up up quickly on me....

it seems that the immigration has modified to require minimally 5 or 6 yrs of CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY for a greencard holder to apply for naturalization.... ?

my memory could betray me again....

We got my wife's done in 3 years. I believe you had to be in the US for at least 1/2 the time. We took many trips, and a few to Mexico where she could just use her green card and not have the passport stamped. It was an easy process. Fair amount of paperwork, but easy.

[trogers]

It sounds like you've never heard of negative equity, and it's effect on a great number of home owners, as opposed to speculators.

And when it comes time to sell up to fund your retirement and the property prices drop 20-25% making it impossible, it's really no consolation that you are better off than the last recession, when you weren't able to retire either.

And you again fail to take into account people that can't afford to own property.

Negative equity will not affect homeowners who do not over borrow. In my generation, we have never thought of buying an over-expensive place at 90% financing with 25-30 years mortgage period.

We were max at 80% for 15 years. Yes, I am in my 50s. We were able to pay back the loan through one property cycle. My first condo in Bangkok was bought in 1994 at 65% and 10-year mortgage. Tom Yum Kung crisis hit in 1997. Never had a problem with my installment even with negative equity, though the quantum of negative equity was less than 5% due to borrowing only 65%.

Agree. Negative equity or being "under water" only works against you when you can't make the mortgage payments. If you are looking to live in and not invest/speculate, then it shouldn't really matter what price you paid for it since you are using the place to live and can afford it. I'm kind of surprised by all these new condos that are taken up by speculators, I guess its money chasing money..I wouldn't want to buy from these speculators anyways, just gives them more reason to buy and sell. TIT

Mortgages, at whatever rate and duration, can be used to calculate the total impact of negative equity. People never take into account the total purchase price of their property, only the initial price paid to the seller. But when you add in all the mortgage interest payments of x% over x years the ACTUAL purchase price can be 2.5X the initial price, and more.

So you paid the seller 100k and over the x years of paying off mortgages you have actually paid 200k but the market value of the property is only 150k. That's negative equity.

Or you paid the seller 100k and over the x years of paying off mortgages you have actually paid 200k and the market value of the property is 250k, but when it comes time to sell to retire the market has crashed and the value is 165k (30% drop). Negative equity again

Nothing to do with speculators, purely affects homeowners.

The theory of market cycles only works when you use the comparison to the peaks and troughs of inflation over the same period to determine if there has been a 'hedge against inflation' or not, but of course inflation is never a -ve number so there are no troughs, and as I said above you have to also adjust for ACTUAL cost not just look at market value.

And how many investors in the stock and commodity markets also consider financing costs in their margin trading, especially in times of forced selling?

At least financing cost in acquiring real properties can be partly offset by rental income, or if self-occupied, rent saved.

Edited July 6, 2010 by trogers

[PattayaParent]

^ best just to pay cash for the property, then you don't delude yourself that you've made a profit or have a hedge against inflation as your cost is fixed on purchase and sale.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget in your inflation calculations that the inflation rates should be compounded as the figures given are the year on year rate.

Edited July 6, 2010 by PattayaParent

[PattayaParent]

And how many investors in the stock and commodity markets also consider financing costs in their margin trading, especially in times of forced selling?

At least financing cost in acquiring real properties can be partly offset by rental income, or if self-occupied, rent saved.

Anyone who doesn't figure in financing costs of 100%+++ into their calculations isn't going to be a very successful investor.

[Buckeye911]

Wow, I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me. It's great to know that my wife can gain US citizenship without giving up her Thai citizenship. We are about the same age and we met in the states, she already had a green card when we met. There's no way I'm waiting until I'm 70 to retire, I'm giving it up at 60. With my Virginia Law Enforcement pension I can get full retirement at age 60. I can also get a supplement of a little over $1000/month until I chose to start collecting Social Security. Oh, by the way. What I meant when I stated earlier that at some point returning to the US every six months or so would become a burden is just that as we get older there may be health problems that eventually could make long trips more difficult. Also, I am by no means wealthy. At one point I was making pretty good money in manufacturing but I just got a little fed up with the corporate world and made a career change. I took a job in law enforcement making about 40% of what I had been making and have been much happier and healthier since. I was good at what I did before but I just didn't like what it was doing to me.

Nackachalet, Capthaddock, craig3365 and Pib, thank you so much for your invaluable contributions of information. I greatly appreciate it, I feel a lot better about my future retirement in Thailand.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Buckeye911

[sarahsbloke]

I've been here 2 years,

when I came 51bht to 1UKP,

last time I changed big money 54bht to 1UKP,

it went down to 46/47bht to 1 UKP twice,

It's now at 49bht to 1UKP (and creeping up).

If it reduces to 35bht to 1 UKP I'm starting to get into trouble, above that a few less nights out will sort it.

If it goes over 55bht to 1UKP I will buy a couple of million BHT.

Those living hand to mouth will always be in financial difficulties, those with the ability to change money at the right rate, won't.

No need to play with gold, unless you like the look and feel of it.

I'm already spending LESS UKP than I was 2 years ago as I have set up a home, wife and not every dinner is in a western eating place.

So far Thailand has been a dam_n cheap retirement destination for me, maybe I could find somewhere cheaper, but not worth the effort at the moment.

Edited July 6, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Robby nz]

Havent read through all the stuff on this thread and can only say from my point of view that it still is cheap to live here.

Depends of course where you want to live, what you want to do, drink and eat.

If You want a flash house or condo in one of the tourist places and want to drink and party and eat at big restaurents it will cost you.

In my situation I only pay 2% tax on investment income and nothing on pension, see

I live in a nice 2 bedroom house in a small town, rent 4000b per month. I dont have or need a car, eat mostly Thai food which I like and rarely pay more than 35b for a good feed, lunch today green curry at the local supermarket 15b.

Give the Mrs 15,000b a month, out of that she pays the rent, power and water and other expenses like food. I use perhaps another 5,000b a month.

Went on a visa run to Lao last week, took 5000b and came back with just 15000b,free visa great stuff. Plan a trip to Kanchanburi later this month or early next then in Sept a visa run to Mae Sai where I havent been before.

Got a small vege garden and take the sister-in-laws young fella fishing in the river on weekends, lifes good and dont want to be anywhere else.

[craigt3365]

I was thinking of replying to this thread after today's activities. And sarahsbloke's post got me to do it. I woke up this morning, had a cup of coffee and greeted our maid/gardener couple for the day's work. They came at 9am and left around 2pm. Did all the laundry, ironed everything, helped with lunch, took care of the garden, cleaned the house spic n' span. We went shopping and had sushi at Fuji. Great lunch for 400B. Came home and our contractors are finishing up the path from the garage to the house. Been working on it for days and in the end will cost next to nothing. Maid/gardener cost 6k baht a month...or so...for 3 days a week...he even washed my car and helped me to paint my walls.

We went to dinner at a seaside restaurant 3 nights ago. Had way too much to eat, plenty of beer, and paid 400B. Watched the sunset...enjoyed the weather. Perfect. It's hard to even lift a finger here. Life is not too rough!

[CaptHaddock]

.... If your wife has had the green card for 3 years she can apply for citizenship,

In any case, good luck with your plans.

  

capthaddock

senility creeps up up quickly on me....

it seems that the immigration has modified to require minimally 5 or 6 yrs of CONTINUOUS RESIDENCY for a greencard holder to apply for naturalization.... ?

my memory could betray me again....

Usually it's 5 years, but if the basis for the green card was marriage (which I assume is the case with the OP) then it is 3 years.

[nakachalet]

Havent read through all the stuff on this thread and can only say from my point of view that it still is cheap to live here.

Depends of course where you want to live, what you want to do, drink and eat.

If You want a flash house or condo in one of the tourist places and want to drink and party and eat at big restaurents it will cost you.

In my situation I only pay 2% tax on investment income and nothing on pension, see http://www.thaivisa....nts-and-others/

I live in a nice 2 bedroom house in a small town, rent 4000b per month. I dont have or need a car, eat mostly Thai food which I like and rarely pay more than 35b for a good feed, lunch today green curry at the local supermarket 15b.

Give the Mrs 15,000b a month, out of that she pays the rent, power and water and other expenses like food. I use perhaps another 5,000b a month.

Went on a visa run to Lao last week, took 5000b and came back with just 15000b,free visa great stuff. Plan a trip to Kanchanburi later this month or early next then in Sept a visa run to Mae Sai where I havent been before.

Got a small vege garden and take the sister-in-laws young fella fishing in the river on weekends, lifes good and dont want to be anywhere else.

robby nz....

u r surely a cheap cheap fella.... donating only 15,000 thb a month for her to pay all the bills....

and what do you think is left for her personal expenditure, like buying birth control pills etc....

u r cheap dude....

have a heart dude.... she is not your personal slave or maid.... is she....? :jap:

[trogers]

Havent read through all the stuff on this thread and can only say from my point of view that it still is cheap to live here.

Depends of course where you want to live, what you want to do, drink and eat.

If You want a flash house or condo in one of the tourist places and want to drink and party and eat at big restaurents it will cost you.

In my situation I only pay 2% tax on investment income and nothing on pension, see http://www.thaivisa....nts-and-others/

I live in a nice 2 bedroom house in a small town, rent 4000b per month. I dont have or need a car, eat mostly Thai food which I like and rarely pay more than 35b for a good feed, lunch today green curry at the local supermarket 15b.

Give the Mrs 15,000b a month, out of that she pays the rent, power and water and other expenses like food. I use perhaps another 5,000b a month.

Went on a visa run to Lao last week, took 5000b and came back with just 15000b,free visa great stuff. Plan a trip to Kanchanburi later this month or early next then in Sept a visa run to Mae Sai where I havent been before.

Got a small vege garden and take the sister-in-laws young fella fishing in the river on weekends, lifes good and dont want to be anywhere else.

robby nz....

u r surely a cheap cheap fella.... donating only 15,000 thb a month for her to pay all the bills....

and what do you think is left for her personal expenditure, like buying birth control pills etc....

u r cheap dude....

have a heart dude.... she is not your personal slave or maid.... is she....? :jap:

Perhaps there is a part 2 that was not said...about expenses for his numerous children...

[sokal]

For American retirees: - 43 %( currency shift) + 27 %( inflation) = 70% price increase

For British retirees: - 62 %( currency shift) + 27 %( inflation) = 89% price increase

For European retirees: - 38 %( currency shift) + 27 %( inflation) = 65% price increase

Sorry. I can't let glaring math errors like this go without saying something. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

For American retirees: - 43 %( currency shift) * 27 %( inflation) = (1.43)*(1.27) = 82% price increase

For British retirees: - 62 %( currency shift) * 27 %( inflation) = (1.62)*(1.27) = 106% price increase

For European retirees: - 38 %( currency shift) * 27 %( inflation) = (1.38)*(1.27) = 75% price increase

Whew...feel much better now.

But I thought Thailand was going to hel_l in a hand basket ? as everyone says.

It looks like Thailand has been getting wealthier, 43% more compared to yanks, 62% more compared to Brits and 38% compared to Euro's. This is what happens when your government devalues your currency, you get poorer.:jap:

[streetlife]

Unless you are an alcoholic Thailand is as cheap as chips.

[sokal]

Average price of gold in 2005, about $445/oz. (8400 Baht/baht weight). Average price of gold this year, about $1200 USD (18,400 Baht/baht weight).

I remember gold prices were once in the 800s and then fell below the 400 point. What hedging will you make that prices are 1200 today and will not fall below 800 by year end?

Read the gold thread

Go Holland

[somtampet]

man i am so lucky i came over 5 1/3 years ago

am i blessed or what ?

but now what ?

Lucky i came over 7 years ago lol.You make these assumptions that every expat came to retire based on 75 baht to the pound.When i came over my assumption was 10% living increase per annum,so i am perfect with my assumptions.Dont think everybody came here with only pension money,a bit niave,and dont think everybody did not expect an increase in living costs.What about doing the maths on somebody living in uk for 5 years then do the comparison with Thailand.You also base your facts on someone living in any part of Thailand,which is wrong.

[somtampet]

Average price of gold in 2005, about $445/oz. (8400 Baht/baht weight). Average price of gold this year, about $1200 USD (18,400 Baht/baht weight).

I remember gold prices were once in the 800s and then fell below the 400 point. What hedging will you make that prices are 1200 today and will not fall below 800 by year end?

Read the gold thread

Dont mind paying 64% more to live,as i bought a few million bahts worth of gold at 8,000 per 1 baht,and sold a few days ago at 18,000.wow did i make a killing,anybody fancy a beer lol

Go Holland

[craigt3365]

Congrats! Great investing.

[Rinrada]

Havent read through all the stuff on this thread and can only say from my point of view that it still is cheap to live here.

Depends of course where you want to live, what you want to do, drink and eat.

If You want a flash house or condo in one of the tourist places and want to drink and party and eat at big restaurents it will cost you.

In my situation I only pay 2% tax on investment income and nothing on pension, see

I live in a nice 2 bedroom house in a small town, rent 4000b per month. I dont have or need a car, eat mostly Thai food which I like and rarely pay more than 35b for a good feed, lunch today green curry at the local supermarket 15b.

Give the Mrs 15,000b a month, out of that she pays the rent, power and water and other expenses like food. I use perhaps another 5,000b a month.

Went on a visa run to Lao last week, took 5000b and came back with just 15000b,free visa great stuff. Plan a trip to Kanchanburi later this month or early next then in Sept a visa run to Mae Sai where I havent been before.

Got a small vege garden and take the sister-in-laws young fella fishing in the river on weekends, lifes good and dont want to be anywhere else.

took 5000b and came back with just 15000b

Thats the idea....chok dee na

[flying]

I was thinking of replying to this thread after today's activities. And sarahsbloke's post got me to do it. I woke up this morning, had a cup of coffee and greeted our maid/gardener couple for the day's work. They came at 9am and left around 2pm. Did all the laundry, ironed everything, helped with lunch, took care of the garden, cleaned the house spic n' span. We went shopping and had sushi at Fuji. Great lunch for 400B. Came home and our contractors are finishing up the path from the garage to the house. Been working on it for days and in the end will cost next to nothing. Maid/gardener cost 6k baht a month...or so...for 3 days a week...he even washed my car and helped me to paint my walls.

We went to dinner at a seaside restaurant 3 nights ago. Had way too much to eat, plenty of beer, and paid 400B. Watched the sunset...enjoyed the weather. Perfect. It's hard to even lift a finger here. Life is not too rough!

Not to rain on the parade but....

Dinner at a seaside restaurant plenty to eat and Plenty of beer 400 baht? You must be drinking something less than Singha because doesn't it cost about 90 baht per large bottle? 400 baht for lunch at Fuji sounds right & is $12.34. Similar fake Japanese or Chinese spots in the States runs about $15 for 2 so not a big difference.

The labor is dirt cheap at 6000 baht/$185 per month/3days per week/96hours month roughly 2 bucks an hour.

But that is what it is when you have this many with out jobs. The way things are going in the States who knows what folks will work for when this unemployment that has been stretched from 26 weeks of benefits to years in some places runs out.

I still think the food can be had for less here yes but it is very close now. I go back & forth every year & am surprised at how close things are getting overall. Lastly depending on what you want & the quality of what you want...At times it even swaps places.

[craigt3365]

I was thinking of replying to this thread after today's activities. And sarahsbloke's post got me to do it. I woke up this morning, had a cup of coffee and greeted our maid/gardener couple for the day's work. They came at 9am and left around 2pm. Did all the laundry, ironed everything, helped with lunch, took care of the garden, cleaned the house spic n' span. We went shopping and had sushi at Fuji. Great lunch for 400B. Came home and our contractors are finishing up the path from the garage to the house. Been working on it for days and in the end will cost next to nothing. Maid/gardener cost 6k baht a month...or so...for 3 days a week...he even washed my car and helped me to paint my walls.

We went to dinner at a seaside restaurant 3 nights ago. Had way too much to eat, plenty of beer, and paid 400B. Watched the sunset...enjoyed the weather. Perfect. It's hard to even lift a finger here. Life is not too rough!

Not to rain on the parade but....

Dinner at a seaside restaurant plenty to eat and Plenty of beer 400 baht? You must be drinking something less than Singha because doesn't it cost about 90 baht per large bottle? 400 baht for lunch at Fuji sounds right & is $12.34. Similar fake Japanese or Chinese spots in the States runs about $15 for 2 so not a big difference.

The labor is dirt cheap at 6000 baht/$185 per month/3days per week/96hours month roughly 2 bucks an hour.

But that is what it is when you have this many with out jobs. The way things are going in the States who knows what folks will work for when this unemployment that has been stretched from 26 weeks of benefits to years in some places runs out.

I still think the food can be had for less here yes but it is very close now. I go back & forth every year & am surprised at how close things are getting overall. Lastly depending on what you want & the quality of what you want...At times it even swaps places.

Actually it was 800B, but that was for 2 couples. And a full table of food (crab, fish, shrimp soup, etc.) and several bottles of Heineken. We go there every week to eat by the sea and watch the sunset. It's a small place, with wood plank floors and plastic table cloths...but the food is outstanding.

Not sure where you can get sushi in the US for $15 for 2. We eat all the time in Vegas, at many different places, and it almost always runs us around $40-50 for 2 for lunch (tax, tip, title, license, etc included). Sure, we eat a lot...but it is quite expensive...which is why we started shopping at the Chinese grocery store for our own sushi grade salmon and tuna. Then just do our own. Here is a link to a few places we go that shows prices. Don't forget to add 25%+ to this for tax (also city tax) and tip.

http://www.lasvegas-sushi.com/html/menu/sushi_standard_rolls.html

http://www.mikosushilasvegas.com/menu.pdf

Just got back from welcoming home a friend who was visiting California for a month. He was shocked at the prices for eating and drinking out and was glad to be home. His comments. His wife is talking about moving back and he says if they do, one of them will have to get a job for sure.

[David006]

To have a reasonable standard of living, 50,000 a month is approx what is needed

I would say your right.

..so what's that about 1700USD a month....would not go far in Europe or the US methinks..that'll buy very few fresh prawns and even less beer after you pay your heating bills,taxes,rates,gasoline,road tax, insurance, ad nauseam ...

The favourable weather, prices, for the most part lovely happy Thai people and freedoms in Thailand are what make it an attractive and pleasant place to be and maybe turn up your clogs.....

...you can probably count on one hand the happy smiling faces on a London bus...lol and they are probably Somalian refugees or retirees on their way to the airport for their Thai' bound flight.

[trogers]

All the talk about retiring in Thailand with a budget of Bt50k/mth implies they will not be able to retire in their home country, even if they own the roof over their head there.