Parental Rights -- Getting Registered As Biological Father

[dmsnsa]

This week has been a bit of a shock, a woman whom I had a relationship with bore my child. I didn't know she was pregnant, and has abandon the child. Fortunately some friends learned of this and have taken her in. My wife and I talked this though, the relationship came during a time of separation which has been reconciled. I'm the biological Father, the child is unregistered and my first thoughts are ... how can myself registered as the Father and permission to take the child outside of the country to reside with me in my residence? Immediately I'm looking to provide this child with whatever material necessities until it with a proper home.

If anyone has any constructive advise or has been through the process help would be appreciated.

[gregb]

Congratulations on your child. I hope you view this as a blessing and not a burden.

The easiest way to get the child out of the country is if you can find the woman who bore the child and get her to consent to a passport for your child at your embasssy in Thailand. You *REALLY* want to try and do this. There is no other simple option. No matter how difficult this may seem and how long it may take, it is going to be substantially easier than any other choice. Once the child has a foreign passport you can take him out. A letter from the birth mother authorizing you to leave the country with the child and the original birth certificate of the child listing you as the father will smooth over any issues with immigration that might come up.

There are several people on the board who can give you specifics on how immigration will react when you leave the country, but do keep in mind that there is no such crime as parental kidnapping in Thailand. This means you may also want to legalize your rights as a father here in Thailand by petitioning the court here in Thailand. This will take about 3 months, and will make it so that if you do try and leave the country with the child without the consent of the mother, even if immigration stops you they can not convict you of any wrong doing. There are many threads on legalizing your rights as a father in Thailand in this forum. Just contact any Thai lawyer and he will start the process.

If the mother truly has abandoned the child and she can not be traced, I would try and petition the court to have your wife adopt the chid. This will take years. You will need a letter from the court that verifies you have turned over heaven and earth to try and locate the birth mother and failed. Abandonment in this case generally means on the order of 3 years or more. It is not a quick process. Once the child is legally adopted by your wife, you will be able to apply for a passport and take the child out of the country.

The only other thing I can suggest is talking to your embassy and seeing if they will grant a passport for the child without the consent of the mother. There may be some way to do this, but if there is it will vary country by country. I have never heard of anyone being able to do this, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Again, with a foreign passport and having legalized yourself in Thailand as the father, you can simply leave the country with the child. If Thai immigration does hassle you leaving via the airport, you can always cross overland at Aranyaprathet and leave via Phnom Phen in Cambodia. Nobody will stop you on this route, and you truly are not doing anything illegal anyway.

[Mario2008]

In Thailand you can petition the court to become the legal father and since the child has been abandoned you could at the same time ask for sole custody of the child. That are two separate things.

The process would be easier if you can find the mother and she acknowledge that you are the father and agrees to give you sole custody over the child. If you have sole custody of the child, you are the one that determines the place of residence of the child, which also could be in another country.

If and how the child will also have your nationality (and needs a visa for your country or not) depends on your own nationality laws.

You will need a lawyer for this.

[Mario2008]

I didn't see gregb's post before I posted, but believe the correct way would be the way I described by petitioning the court as that would give you parental rights, also under the laws of your own country. Only permission of the mother would not do for immigration purposes to your own country.

[gregb]

I didn't see gregb's post before I posted, but believe the correct way would be the way I described by petitioning the court as that would give you parental rights, also under the laws of your own country. Only permission of the mother would not do for immigration purposes to your own country.

I disagree Mario. Right now, the mother has the right to decide where the child lives. If she gives written permission that the child should live in the OP's country, that is a completely legal method. Combined with a foreign passport allowing the child to leave, I don't see any problems that would develop. The foreign country *WOULD* recognize the OP as the legal father even if Thai law does not as long as he is listed on the birth certificate, and legalizing in Thailand would be meaningless overseas. Why wait 3 months if the mother consents? Of course, it does bring up the possibility that the mother could demand the child back at some point in the future, and by Thai law she would have a case, but since the child would be physically located in the OP's country at that point, and the OP's country would recognize him as the legal father, there is not really anything she could do. It is an issue of jurisdiction at that point, and the OP's home country would have it.

Under this scenario, the OP could leave with the child in a very short time. Basically as long as it took for the embassy to issue the child a passport. No waiting around for legalization would be necessary.

Things get messy if the mother can not be located or does not want to cooperate. Then, yes, he should legalize in Thailand. But it is not necessarily required in my opinion if the mother consents.

[Mario2008]

Now the father is not the legal father, the child is only a Thai citizen. meaning the child would need a visa, which is also a whole process.

Even if he is on the birth certificate, which is a big unknown, the father might or might not be recognised as the legal father of the child and the child might also have the fathers nationality. That all depends on the fathers nationality and while there seems to be no problem for a British fahter to gain British nationality by being named on the birth certificate, that is not so for all countries.

Also being the legal father still doesn't mean that the father has parental rights. That is normly decided by the law of the country the child is born in. The mother giving the father permission to take the child to the UK could in that case at any time being revoked and the mother could claim the child back. (Although that could probably be contested on the grounds of the welbeing of the child).

Note that for a child leaving the country on a foreign passport for the first time, immigration wants to see the birth certificate. That shows why the child doesn't have an entry stamp. If the father isn't named on the BC he will be questioned.

But in case of some nationalitis, like the British, you have a point. Provided the father is named on the birth certificate.

[MikeyIdea]

Congratulations Daddy, I hope you look forward to your new role. It’s a bit difficult in the beginning but you will be surprised how easy it is once you get used to it. And it’s a wonderful experience

First thing First. Get the Thai side done first, then the foreign side. Not doing it is surely going to come back and bite you one day and also be negative for the child, IMO. One thing: If mother cannot be traced at all or doesn’t want to cooperate at all - Wife doesn’t have to adopt. If the child is not yet registered, then it should be perfectly OK to make a police report and take the issue to court requesting to be legitimized and get sole custody, a witness (friend of the mother) would be good to have. Perhaps the court will order a DNA test anyway, no problems -> 5,000 bath at the police hospital and you become legal father and get sole custody in minimum 4 months more likely 6 months or so

Please confirm: Child has no birth certificate

First thing. If child is un-registered: Yes, there is a rule that birth must be registered at the amphur within 15 days but sod that and Get It Right. The penalty for being late is only 1,000 bath I think it is and changing something that is wrong in a birth certificate already issued is Very Difficult. Get It Right. My wife was registered exactly a year late – no problem, just pay the relatively small fine

The mother – or court will most likely be needed to get birth certificate. Court is definitely needed to get sole custody. You can either take it to court directly or try to get a birth certificate with your name as father in it. I actually recommend court as the only thing the birth certificate will do is to confirm that the mother has sole custody...

Get the police report right, that will help you in the future. It’s very important that you get in that the mother abandoned the child of course. Do some pre-work to get the police report to contain as much other information as possible. You need full name of mother, hospital where child was born, address would be good, which amphur the hospital belongs to is important (that’s where the birth certificate will be issued), your full name, passport info etc, and that you are father of course and how the child was abandoned minimum. Full name of a witness - friend of the mother who later also is willing to witness in court that child was abandoned by mother would be good but not absolutely necessar - There's always DNA. Date of birth of the child must be in of course.

If you want to try to get BC yourself

Get info which hospital child was born at and then go to the district office in that amphur and ask them what to do, I would bring the child. You need to be able to speak Thai or bring someone who can translate, someone who you trust well first of all, speak English well second. Be very clear on claiming that you are the father and that you want to care for Your child, otherwise they may want to involve the police on the spot. You are happy to involve the police of course, but better have enough information to put in the police report first, I wouldn’t want to have a police report that is not complete

The amphur will say that you must make a police report… Of course. More importantly, what are the steps to get birth certificate with you as father, what is needed? Do you have to have the hospital birth papers with your name registered as father? I bet you need the hospital birth papers. I think you can register the birth if you bring the mothers id card in original if your name is as father is on the hospital birth papers but mother must join in person if your name is not there. But I am not sure. How far can a police report you make be used instead? The mother has probably thrown the hospital birth papers away (makes no sense to want to abandon a child but keep the papers). How to get copies of them? Is police report with clear information enough or is the mother or court order needed?

I bet you will need the mothers help to get a BC for the child, unless you take it to court. Court and you should be able to get sole custody at the same time, DNA is only 5,000 bath. Court case: my guess is 70 to 100 thousand bath in Bangkok

Don’t be afraid of Thai Juvenile court by the way, they are happy that you want to take responsibility for your child and not happy with a mother who abandons her own child...

Good Luck Lucky Father

[MikeyIdea]

I didn't see gregb's post before I posted, but believe the correct way would be the way I described by petitioning the court as that would give you parental rights, also under the laws of your own country. Only permission of the mother would not do for immigration purposes to your own country.

I disagree Mario. Right now, the mother has the right to decide where the child lives. If she gives written permission that the child should live in the OP's country, that is a completely legal method. Combined with a foreign passport allowing the child to leave, I don't see any problems that would develop. The foreign country *WOULD* recognize the OP as the legal father even if Thai law does not as long as he is listed on the birth certificate, and legalizing in Thailand would be meaningless overseas. Why wait 3 months if the mother consents? Of course, it does bring up the possibility that the mother could demand the child back at some point in the future, and by Thai law she would have a case, but since the child would be physically located in the OP's country at that point, and the OP's country would recognize him as the legal father, there is not really anything she could do. It is an issue of jurisdiction at that point, and the OP's home country would have it.

Under this scenario, the OP could leave with the child in a very short time. Basically as long as it took for the embassy to issue the child a passport. No waiting around for legalization would be necessary.

Things get messy if the mother can not be located or does not want to cooperate. Then, yes, he should legalize in Thailand. But it is not necessarily required in my opinion if the mother consents.

The child is half Thai and why should he be limited to not having his Thai side confirmed? Opportunities are going to be in Asia in 25 years time, not America or Europe. Taking the best future of the child into consideration - His Asian and Thai connections should be formalised in a way that secure whatever choice he takes himself later in life. Best done now

I agree about the legality of what you write gregb, I just don't think that it is a good long-term solution for the child