Work Permit Costs For Volunteers

[kwilson76]

I am living in Northern Thailand and am about to commence work as a volunteer English consultant with a school within a Shan community. I have a work permit in process that the school has instigated (only upon my request and insistance) and the work permit has been completed but I have been advised I am to pay 3000 Baht myself when I collect the permit. Although I had done my research before moving here I find there are many conflicting stories associated with work permits and visas. I obtained this position by sending out resumes and application letters to secure a work permit prior to leaving my home country, so I could live here permanently. I was lead to believe the school should pay for the permit.

Any advice (constructive and about the permit cost only) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

[Mario2008]

A work permit for 1 year costs 3,100 baht. (100 baht is for the application). The price only depends on how long you will volunteer (up to 3, 6, 9 or 12 months).Having a work permit will enable you to apply for a 1 year extention of stay from immigration at a cost of 1,900 baht. There will be some other paperwork needed, but the work permit is the most important.

You are supposed to pay for the work permit, although most employers will pay it for you. That should include organisations for which you volunteer. So that part is up to you to negotiate with the school.

[TerryLH]

"You are supposed to pay for the work permit, although most employers will pay it for you."

Does it actually say that somewhere?

[Mario2008]

"You are supposed to pay for the work permit, although most employers will pay it for you."

Does it actually say that somewhere?

You apply for the work permit, not your employer. Making you the one having to pay for it.

[jazzbo]

I have a work permit in process that the school has instigated (only upon my request and insistance) So you maybe are the first foreign volunteer this school has ever had or maybe just the first foreign volunteer who insisted upon a work permit.

Edited July 6, 2010 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

http://www.doe.go.th/workpermit/ (EN)

[Sunny Valentine]

http://www.doe.go.th/workpermit/ (EN)

Thanks for this link!

There seems to be some changes since the last time I checked on these matters, i.e.:

WORK : the engagement in work by exerting energy or using knowledge for purpose of obtaining wages or other benefits.

Does that mean that "working" without the aim of getting remuneration or other benefits (i.e. true "amateur" actions) is legal now without a WP? I remember the definition of work before that was specifying that "working" was "working" no matter if aimed at payment or benefits or not?

An alien who wishes to apply for a work permit under the Board of Investment (BOI) law or other similar commercial laws must file an application for a work permit within 30 days from the date he/she is allowed to work under such law.

Now, the English here is funny as always in Thailand, but I interpret this as the possibility to start working 30 days prior to applying for a WP? Is that true?

Edited July 7, 2010 by Sunny Valentine

[Mario2008]

That is probably a incorrect translation.

Sunbelt has another translation, which also gives the changes as to the old act: http://www.sunbeltle...t_Watermark.pdf

See also: http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf for another translation, confirming the law didn't change on the point of the definition of work.

[Sunny Valentine]

Thanks Mario for pointing out again that information obtained from the Official Homepage of the organization responsible is untrue.

Not that I did not anticipate this ....been in Thailand too long now to expect anything different ...

[jazzbo]

(quote from #7 above) 'Does that mean that "working" without the aim of getting remuneration or other benefits (i.e. true "amateur" actions) is legal now without a WP?' (end quote)

Well apparently it must be because the ever-friendly folks at Hull Consulate General will issue a Category 'O' Visa:

"... to work as a volunteer for a recognised charity ...This category does not allow employment without a work permit."

They require a Letter from an NGO stating that the applicant:

.. is to visit Thailand as a volunteer worker with this organisation. This organisation confirms that it is acting as sponsor for this applicant.

[Mario2008]

(quote from #7 above) 'Does that mean that "working" without the aim of getting remuneration or other benefits (i.e. true "amateur" actions) is legal now without a WP?' (end quote)

Well apparently it must be because the ever-friendly folks at Hull Consulate General will issue a Category 'O' Visa:

"... to work as a volunteer for a recognised charity ...This category does not allow employment without a work permit."

They require a Letter from an NGO stating that the applicant:

.. is to visit Thailand as a volunteer worker with this organisation. This organisation confirms that it is acting as sponsor for this applicant.

Confusing post.

It clearly states that a category O visa "does not allow employment without a work permit". Volunteers need a work permit.

[jazzbo]

The language used by Thailand CG Hull seems to make a distinction between 'to work as a volunteer' and employment.

[Mario2008]

The language used by Thailand CG Hull seems to make a distinction between 'to work as a volunteer' and employment.

I can see your point, but as pointed out in my earlier posts, Thai labour law doesn't make a distinction between paid and unpaid work. It is just a confusing statement by "Hull" because they use two different terms.

[jazzbo]

The Hull CG also points out in the suggested letter from the NGO that the NGO will be acting as a 'sponsor' for the applicant; it does not say that the NGO will make any effforts to secure a work permit for the applicant.

So it seems that there is the Labour Law, the Interior/Immigration Law, the Ministry of Foreign Affais/Visa Law, and then there is the Law as interpreted by Thailand Conuslate General Hull (established 1922) ....

Edited July 29, 2010 by jazzbo

[Mario2008]

The Thai ministry of Foreign Affairs state the following:

Q: An NGO in Thailand has invited me to go there and work for them as a volunteer for 45 days during my school break. I will not earn any money in Thailand. I am a Belgian college student in Brussels.

I understand that I do not need a visa, do I?

A: Although you will work as a volunteer, you do need a Non-Immigrant visa as well as the Work Permit. The NGO must be legally registered with the Thai authority, and that you need a recommendation letter from the NGO for your visa application and the Work Permit.

http://www.mfa.go.th...482.php?id=2649

[jazzbo]

I am sure that CG Hull would be happy to be advised of their mis-information... The below is from the website of the Royal Thai Embassy London's website:

9. An NGO in Thailand has invited me to go there and work for them

as a volunteer for 45 days during my school break. I will not earn

any money in Thailand. I am a British college student in Liverpool.

I understand that I do not need a visa, do I?

A: Although you will work as a volunteer, you do need a Non-Immigrant visa as well as the Work Permit. The NGO must be legally registered with the Thai authority,

and that you need a recommendation letter from the NGO for your visa application and the Work Permit.

This from Hull's supposed boss -- Go Figure.

Edited July 29, 2010 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

It is just a confusing statement by "Hull" because they use two different terms.

... Here is the definition of an 'O' visa from the MoFA website, but Hull seems to be confusing 'friends' with family as the MoFA doesn't seem to mention 'friends with an ID card' at all -- boy those folks at Hull sure are one confused lot:

3. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA

- other activities (Category "O") as follows:

to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process.

http://www.mfa.go.th...482.php?id=2489

[Mario2008]

Only a few consulates will issue a non-O based on visiting friends, as it is indeed not mentioned as a reason for a non-immigrant visa in the rules as published by the foreign office.

[jazzbo]

So in other words, Hull is allowed to interpret MoFA and other regulations as it sees fit.

[jazzbo]

The good folks at Hull are willing Non-Imm Visas to:

-- provide persons who might otherwise not qualify for an 'O' visa with an 'O' visa.

-- provide persons who might not otherwise qualify for a 'B' Doing Busines in Thailand Visa with a 'B' Visa

-- provide those wishing to donate their time as a Volunteer to a 'recognised' NGO who might not otherwise so qualify with an 'O' visa ...

This is their take on Thailand Visa and other regulations having been a Royal Thai Consulate (General) since 1922; The present Consul, Mr Alan Taylor, was appointed in 1980.

... as per their website:

The main roles of the Hull consulate are:-

1) to issue visas to persons wishing to visit Thailand;

2) to endeavour to provide accurate information to all enquirers;

All constructive comments on how we can improve our services are always welcome.

[techno]

Tourist Police Volunteers in Chiang Mai have been told that they do NOT need work permits because they work for a Government department mainly the Royal Thai Police

[Mario2008]

Tourist Police Volunteers in Chiang Mai have been told that they do NOT need work permits because they work for a Government department mainly the Royal Thai Police

Only when there is a royal decree can categories of people be exempt from the need to have a work permit. As far as I know, there is no such decree.

Volunteering for a government school still means needing a work permit.

This is more a question of nobody going to check the if the Thai police is following the law by having volunteers without a work permit. Both the volunteer and the organization can be prosecuted.

[jazzbo]

All constructive comments on how we can improve our services are always welcome.

[email protected] Atten: Hon. Allan Taylor:

'Thai labour law doesn't make a distinction between paid and unpaid work. It is just a confusing statement by "Hull" because they use two different terms' ... for the same thing. We at TV constructively suggests that you un-confuse your website. Regards /M

BTW ... I don't see how anyone could equate a government school with a recognised Thai Public charity (Public Benefit Organization under Social Welfare Promotion Act 2003) ... and maybe the good folks at Hull -- after almost 90 years -- have a good idea as to which NGOs they will recognise and which they will not.

Edited July 30, 2010 by jazzbo

[Tod Daniels]

Sadly, when in doubt about the engrish translation of ANY thai regulation or police order, (or even an official looking piece of paper) it always behooves a person to resort back to the original version written in thai. (I know not too much of a help if you can’t read thai, or don’t happen have a fluent engrish/thai speaking thai national hanging about!! )

The visa rules and regs published by Sunbelt Asia are pretty close to the mark. However back translating thai into cohesive and clearly understood engrish is ambiguous at the best of times, and down right confusing at the worst .

While more than slightly off topic (still of interest):

I remember a post a while back about a foreigner adamant that for his extension of stay based on marriage to a thai that no where in the engrish translation did it say specifically the money had to be in his account alone. It was tossed around on the T/V forum for days. I finally 'parsed' out the engrish translation of the thai word by word. Where it clearly (at least in thai eyes) said it had to be in his account alone (not a joint account).

BACK ON TOPIC:

Hull's wording does seem to be rather murky ; BUT once you understand that Visas and Work Permits are implemented by totally DIFFERENT governmental departments in thailand, it becomes a little less hazy . Hull doesn't issue work permits, just visas. The burden then falls on the applicant of said visa to meet the stated requirements as far as a work permit to "work" here.

And yes, in case you haven’t noticed; the thai definition of "work" is a very broad all encompassing term.

Perhaps even flushing the toilet after you use it could be interpreted as 'work' and thereby requiring a the 'flushee' (or would that be the 'flush-er' ) to have a work permit . It may in fact, even be on the "prohibited list of occupations" which are reserved ONLY for thai nationals and which foreigners cannot even be gainfully employed in here in thailand.

Consider yourself warned next time you flush !!

BTW: GREAT Avatar!! KISS still rocks, even after 35 PLUS years. ..

Edited July 30, 2010 by tod-daniels

[jazzbo]

IMHO as per persons volunteering with 'recognised' NGOs the professionals at Hull know exactly what they meant to say and they say so explicitly and without confusion ... they may very well have a personal relationship with and know which 'recognised' NGOs have a long track record with volunteers on the basis they describe ... and they could care less what is otherwise described herein ... just as with 'visiting friends'.

[jazzbo]

This the basic form letter I use to communicate with persons who, having expressed their intention to come and spend time with a Thai NGO, have been admonished as to their Work Permit status:

Hello Kuhn XYZ. -- Please be advised that -- while it is totally and legally correct that to volunteer with an NGO requires a work permit unpaid or otherwise -- especially if the NGO has not heretofore mentioned in their correspondence or discussion with you that they will supply you with all the documents required for a work permit, it is the policy for many NGOs in Thailand not to obtain work permits for many of their volunteers especially for a year or less.

This is their policy and -- especially if a well-established NGO -- it is well-known by the local labor officials.

If persons such as yourself insist upon a WP, the NGO may just tell them to go elsewhere -- they do not like being lectured to by a farang as to how the Thai labor laws should actually work. It then becomes a judgment call by you whether to stay or go elsewhere. Of course, the above cannot be the stated position of (certain websites) ... -- and as they say: Your Mileage May Vary. Good Luck, Jazzbo

and the above seems to reflect the posture of the Non-IMM 'O' volunteer visa being offered at Hull

Edited July 31, 2010 by jazzbo

[TerryLH]

"We at TV constructively suggests that you un-confuse your website."

Do you represent TV?

J,it seems to me that Hull is being very flexible about issuing visas.

Would you also complain if they weren't so helpful to so many?

[jazzbo]

Certainly was not I who said the Hull website was confusing...