Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[GuestHouse]

I think he is very much over-generalizing. I know plenty of "Johns" who respect sex-workers and certainly do not hate them. I have met a few real losers that do, but it is because they have problems with almost everyone that meets them. It is never good to judge any group of people by the actions of just a few.

I've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.

I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.

And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

This mindset might help a guy rationalize his behaviour, but it certainly does nothing for his ability to establish and maintain meaningful relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

An example, if you want one, is the significant number of foreigners living in Thailand who, having married the woman of their dreams (lists of their positive attributes above that of their western sisters a frequent comment here on TV) but who then continue to play away from home, purchasing the services of prostitutes as a side dish to their 'happy marriage'.

And that's putting aside the issue of paying for sex is in itself a near perfect example of the act of self emasculation.

Edited July 15, 2010 by GuestHouse

[sokal]

In the western world (I'm making assumptions, never paid for sex there with cash upfront) prostitutes of the get them in, get them done, get them out variety while turning their heads to one side and having the 'get it over with' attitude had no attraction for me at all, in fact they would appear to be pretty much the same as my former UK wife .... so no desire to indulge.

In Thailand this was entirely different, 'I love you so much', exactly what I was looking for, a woman who made some pretense of loving me and wanting to be in bed with me. Do I care if it is real or not, not at all, I'm happy with the fantasy .........

i believe that you have a very valid point. I know men who would never patronize a prostitute in the west but enjoy the girl friend experience that is reputed to be the norm in Thailand or the Philippines, for example. And this is true even if they completely understand that this experience is just an act.

From reputation, prostitutes in the US seem to fall under the uber-expensive corporate call girl we read about when some bank or such goes under or the "$5 crack whore." One is out of reach for most men, the other scares most men. But for men without a partner or with a partner who doesn't fill that niche, then the fantasy available here is what they are buying.

The girls in Thailand are not always acting out a fantasy, not for the younger guys at least.

I am 26 years old, 6 foot 3, 190 pounds,decent looks and a athletic build. I have an oil patch job, I work really long hours, I bounce from province to province depending on the time of year. Sometimes I live in camps, usually just hotels though.I make good money but it is awfully hard to meet women and even if I meet them it is just as hard to establish a meaningful relationship. I never grew up in the 60's but allot of older men seem to think that it is easier for young men to get women in the west then it really is.

When I get a month or so off work I come to Thailand. I have been meeting girls at places like Gulivers or Gazebo in Bangkok. Sometimes I don't really know if the girls I am with are actual "prostitutes". I met the girl I was with last time on the dance floor. We drank and danced and she just came with me to my hotel that night. The next morning she told me that she was laid off work because of the red shirts. I told her how long i was staying(month) and she just said that she could be my girlfriend for a short time. So we went to Phuket and a few days later she said she needed to pay her rent so I gave her 3500 bht. We had a great 4 weeks together.Towards the end of the trip she had a few other bills come up that I paid. I still chat with that one on MSN a little bit.

So is this girl a "prostitute" ? am I a "john" ? I didn't think so, we both considered ourselves a couple. I have had the same fling with girls that I knew where bargirls but those girls also considered us a couple for the time being and I was not paying a daily rate or anything. I know a few other guys that do the same thing.

In Thailand there is a huge gray area on the subject of prostitution.

[sokal]

I think he is very much over-generalizing. I know plenty of "Johns" who respect sex-workers and certainly do not hate them. I have met a few real losers that do, but it is because they have problems with almost everyone that meets them. It is never good to judge any group of people by the actions of just a few.

I've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.

I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.

And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

This mindset might help a guy rationalize his behaviour, but it certainly does nothing for his ability to establish and maintain meaningful relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

An example, if you want one, is the significant number of foreigners living in Thailand who, having married the woman of their dreams (lists of their positive attributes above that of their western sisters a frequent comment here on TV) but who then continue to play away from home, purchasing the services of prostitutes as a side dish to their 'happy marriage'.

And that's putting aside the issue of paying for sex is in itself a near perfect example of the act of self emasculation.

I would never cheat on my partner, ever. I agree that those guys that cheat on their wives are scum. I don't even cheat on the short time girlfriends I have when I am in Thailand.

You are reading into the "marriage akin to prostitution" comments too much in the literal sense.

[bonobo]

In Thailand there is a huge gray area on the subject of prostitution.

Wow, I actually agree with you!

So is this girl a "prostitute" ? am I a "john" ? I didn't think so, we both considered ourselves a couple. I have had the same fling with girls that I knew where bargirls but those girls also considered us a couple for the time being and I was not paying a daily rate or anything. I know a few other guys that do the same thing.

I am no mullah passing judgment on what is right and what is wrong. And I certainly don't know where the line changes from prostitute to non-prostitute.

To me, the above case would be one of a prostitute and john as I believe she was with you for financial assistance even if she may have been selective on who she was with. But if it matters on whether this was really prostitution, then the only thing that matters is the legal view and your view. Legally, this would be hard to convict as prostitution. And if you were happy with your experience, with no legal consequences, then it doesn't matter one whit as to what anyone else thinks.

The girls in Thailand are not always acting out a fantasy, not for the younger guys at least.

The fantasy is not the girl's, it is the guy's. And the bargirls who go with a customer for the night are almost always playing a role. If you can see it, find The Good Women of Bangkok and watch it.

[sarahsbloke]

[i've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

I think you have this totally backwards ......It is our previous treatment by western women (or the legal system in the western world) that has caused us the damage.Not anything we have had happen to us in Thailand, if anything the Thai P4P girls are curing me of the damage done to me by a western woman who allegedly loved me for 30 years.

I originally came to Thailand to avoid women ...... not chase them.

Edited July 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[ozzieovaseas]

In the western world (I'm making assumptions, never paid for sex there with cash upfront) prostitutes of the get them in, get them done, get them out variety while turning their heads to one side and having the 'get it over with' attitude had no attraction for me at all, in fact they would appear to be pretty much the same as my former UK wife .... so no desire to indulge.

In Thailand this was entirely different, 'I love you so much', exactly what I was looking for, a woman who made some pretense of loving me and wanting to be in bed with me. Do I care if it is real or not, not at all, I'm happy with the fantasy .........

i believe that you have a very valid point. I know men who would never patronize a prostitute in the west but enjoy the girl friend experience that is reputed to be the norm in Thailand or the Philippines, for example. And this is true even if they completely understand that this experience is just an act.

From reputation, prostitutes in the US seem to fall under the uber-expensive corporate call girl we read about when some bank or such goes under or the "$5 crack whore." One is out of reach for most men, the other scares most men. But for men without a partner or with a partner who doesn't fill that niche, then the fantasy available here is what they are buying.

The girls in Thailand are not always acting out a fantasy, not for the younger guys at least.

I am 26 years old, 6 foot 3, 190 pounds,decent looks and a athletic build. I have an oil patch job, I work really long hours, I bounce from province to province depending on the time of year. Sometimes I live in camps, usually just hotels though.I make good money but it is awfully hard to meet women and even if I meet them it is just as hard to establish a meaningful relationship. I never grew up in the 60's but allot of older men seem to think that it is easier for young men to get women in the west then it really is.

When I get a month or so off work I come to Thailand. I have been meeting girls at places like Gulivers or Gazebo in Bangkok. Sometimes I don't really know if the girls I am with are actual "prostitutes". I met the girl I was with last time on the dance floor. We drank and danced and she just came with me to my hotel that night. The next morning she told me that she was laid off work because of the red shirts. I told her how long i was staying(month) and she just said that she could be my girlfriend for a short time. So we went to Phuket and a few days later she said she needed to pay her rent so I gave her 3500 bht. We had a great 4 weeks together.Towards the end of the trip she had a few other bills come up that I paid. I still chat with that one on MSN a little bit.

So is this girl a "prostitute" ? am I a "john" ? I didn't think so, we both considered ourselves a couple. I have had the same fling with girls that I knew where bargirls but those girls also considered us a couple for the time being and I was not paying a daily rate or anything. I know a few other guys that do the same thing.

In Thailand there is a huge gray area on the subject of prostitution.

I was just about to comment on the subject of " the grey area", when your comment came up

And the shade of grey never gets any more greyer than when in LOS..

It matters not if you go way out of the city, and away from farangs and meet a nice girl with a decent job, and, seemingly, with decent morals....she will STILL ask for money from time to time for this and that....emphasis on the word "ask".

Its what they call "taking care" and it not just limited to Farang+thai relationships either i might add.

Because you are the guy you will be expected to pay for meals and sundries and sometimes even their rent and expenses, simply because "taking care"=paying up...and Farang=money, hence Farang=a good life.

Ask a "nice girl" with a normal job why they want to go out with a farang and they will usually tell you straight.." farang man take good care lady" OR "thai man hab no money, he run away"...ect ect and any guy on here telling you any different is having himself on.

To many people dont know what "taking care" really means in Thailand, hence thinking by default usually results in the assumption of "working girl" mentality..

Dont get me wrong, when heading to Soi Cowboy, Patpong and Nana, there are no illusions as to what the deal is BUT dont for a second think you will bag a Thai girl without paying ..

BTW..looking at reports on Thaivisa it seems many a well educated "nice" Thai girl has often costed a farang a lot more than any prostitute could have ever dreamed of getting.

I affectionately refer to my few ex Thai GF's as my little brown pirhanas...but thats another story

Going from province to province the species might differ a little but they can all chew up the contents of your wallet in 2 seconds, prostitute or no

Edited July 15, 2010 by ozzieovaseas

[GreenSnapper]

To me, the above case would be one of a prostitute and john as I believe she was with you for financial assistance even if she may have been selective on who she was with.

No. It is just the way it works in Thailand. Thai men also pay their girlfriends - not for the sexual act, but for the bills. This girl has no job and goes on holiday with him. How is she supposed to pay her bills? Most people here don't have a bank account with savings. What you earn is gone soon after.

If any relationship which includes some kind of financial advantage is called "prostitution", well then probably 90% relationships will fall into this category. Including western countries.

No, I'd draw the line strictly: when you pay for a shag or a night, then it is prostitution.

[GreenSnapper]

Because you are the guy you will be expected to pay for meals and sundries and sometimes even their rent and expenses, simply because "taking care"=paying up...and Farang=money, hence Farang=a good life.

Ask a "nice girl" with a normal job why they want to go out with a farang and they will usually tell you straight.." farang man take good care lady" OR "thai man hab no money, he run away"...ect ect and any guy on here telling you any different is having himself on.

You are spot on, ozzie!

Once I had a girlfriend who was a poor shift worker (7000B/month or so). But she always tried to pay our not so small restaurant bills. I had to put force on her to be able to pay the bills. When girls here fall in love, they can do everything without thinking.

[IanForbes]

The girls in Thailand are not always acting out a fantasy, not for the younger guys at least.

I am 26 years old, 6 foot 3, 190 pounds,decent looks and a athletic build. I have an oil patch job, I work really long hours, I bounce from province to province depending on the time of year. Sometimes I live in camps, usually just hotels though.I make good money but it is awfully hard to meet women and even if I meet them it is just as hard to establish a meaningful relationship. I never grew up in the 60's but allot of older men seem to think that it is easier for young men to get women in the west then it really is.

When I get a month or so off work I come to Thailand. I have been meeting girls at places like Gulivers or Gazebo in Bangkok. Sometimes I don't really know if the girls I am with are actual "prostitutes". I met the girl I was with last time on the dance floor. We drank and danced and she just came with me to my hotel that night. The next morning she told me that she was laid off work because of the red shirts. I told her how long i was staying(month) and she just said that she could be my girlfriend for a short time. So we went to Phuket and a few days later she said she needed to pay her rent so I gave her 3500 bht. We had a great 4 weeks together.Towards the end of the trip she had a few other bills come up that I paid. I still chat with that one on MSN a little bit.

So is this girl a "prostitute" ? am I a "john" ? I didn't think so, we both considered ourselves a couple. I have had the same fling with girls that I knew where bargirls but those girls also considered us a couple for the time being and I was not paying a daily rate or anything. I know a few other guys that do the same thing.

In Thailand there is a huge gray area on the subject of prostitution.

Your age bracket and obvious reasonable looks explain a lot of your posts. I also had life all figured out when I was in my twenties and thirties. Life experiences changed that. I am now far more cautious about making black or white remarks. I now see everything in shades of grey, and I can usually see the opposite point of view of every topic.

Working girls are no different than the more innocent ones. They just have more experience and are more cautious in giving up their love. That doesn't mean that everything they do is an act. They are fully capable for having feelings for a man who treats them well. And, depending on the man they are with, there are many that really do enjoy sex. It took me a while to find the few that truly enjoy my company. Prostitution is a big grey topic and that is why there are so many different points of view. And, you can lump some marriages in with prostitution. There are many relationships of convenience. That doesn't mean that the couple don't have feelings for each other. If you don't believe so then watch the movie "The bridges of Madison County" with Meryl Streep and Clint Eastwood.

[473geo]

To me, the above case would be one of a prostitute and john as I believe she was with you for financial assistance even if she may have been selective on who she was with.

No. It is just the way it works in Thailand. Thai men also pay their girlfriends - not for the sexual act, but for the bills. This girl has no job and goes on holiday with him. How is she supposed to pay her bills? Most people here don't have a bank account with savings. What you earn is gone soon after.

If any relationship which includes some kind of financial advantage is called "prostitution", well then probably 90% relationships will fall into this category. Including western countries.

No, I'd draw the line strictly: when you pay for a shag or a night, then it is prostitution.

I'd say that a women who regularly sleeps with different men for financial advantage is involved in a level of prostitution...........you can swallow the story line but the cold hard facts are what they are.

[ozzieovaseas]

Because you are the guy you will be expected to pay for meals and sundries and sometimes even their rent and expenses, simply because "taking care"=paying up...and Farang=money, hence Farang=a good life.

Ask a "nice girl" with a normal job why they want to go out with a farang and they will usually tell you straight.." farang man take good care lady" OR "thai man hab no money, he run away"...ect ect and any guy on here telling you any different is having himself on.

You are spot on, ozzie!

Once I had a girlfriend who was a poor shift worker (7000B/month or so). But she always tried to pay our not so small restaurant bills. I had to put force on her to be able to pay the bills. When girls here fall in love, they can do everything without thinking.

hehe, you had a rare one there brother..what happened??

My experiences were a little different..

If eating street noodles GF would break and arm reaching into handbag to pay the 60baht, but on occasion where the bill should be any greater then 100baht...forget it!..no such help forthcoming

[GreenSnapper]

hehe, you had a rare one there brother..what happened??

My experiences were a little different..

If eating street noodles GF would break and arm reaching into handbag to pay the 60baht, but on occasion where the bill should be any greater then 100baht...forget it!..no such help forthcoming

Maybe she thought I was poorer than her ....

But you are right, this is not the standard here. And actually I don't care. I have more money than most middle class Thais, and paying a bill or not does not have any impact on my wealth.

[mark45y]

I think he is very much over-generalizing. I know plenty of "Johns" who respect sex-workers and certainly do not hate them. I have met a few real losers that do, but it is because they have problems with almost everyone that meets them. It is never good to judge any group of people by the actions of just a few.

I've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.

I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.

And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

This mindset might help a guy rationalize his behaviour, but it certainly does nothing for his ability to establish and maintain meaningful relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

An example, if you want one, is the significant number of foreigners living in Thailand who, having married the woman of their dreams (lists of their positive attributes above that of their western sisters a frequent comment here on TV) but who then continue to play away from home, purchasing the services of prostitutes as a side dish to their 'happy marriage'.

And that's putting aside the issue of paying for sex is in itself a near perfect example of the act of self emasculation.

Sometimes I get a belly laugh out of posts. You know a real guffaw. And the above post is one of those that tickled my funny bone.

50, 60 or 70 percent of the people reading this thread are over 60 years of age.

They are not looking for a meaningful anything let alone a meaningful relationship. They aren’t looking for a job. They aren’t looking to have kids. They aren’t looking to have an extended family. They aren’t looking to change the world. They aren’t looking to save the world.

They have done all that stuff. Trust me on this. They got burned by some old woman somewhere but escaped with enough cash to live out life in Thailand.

Lets look at life from the view of the actual readers of TV. The old guy is not going to change, whatever happens to him. He is not going to get worse or better. Dating a whore or dating the virgin Mary is not going to make one bit of difference to the old duffer. After sex he is not going to have a wonderful pink afterglow and dream about children playing in fields of daisy’s. He is reaching for a cigarette and beer like he has done most of his life. Having sex with hookers in not going to emasculate an old guy. He is so far past that and has so many tee shirts that it boggles the imagination.

Trust me, if you don’t have to work and don’t have any family left alive who you care about or who care about you and don’t have any self delusions about your image in the mirror nothing you do after your 60th birthday is going to change your lifestyle much.

I suppose a young man coming to Thailand might have some use for your thoughts. But for the life of me I can’t see any reason (with the exception of the outrageous salaries some helicopter pilots make) why a man under 60 would set foot on these shores.

[Beetlejuice]

I have been with prostitutes in Thailand (Shame on me).

These women are advertising the fact they are available for a price or to the highest bidder. After each session, paid the money and said our farewells, laid back and thought; that was just one big anti climax. The most thrilling part was hiring the girl and waiting to see what she is really like in body and in mind. It`s always been disappointing. I have heard all their sales talk to try and get me hooked as a regular customer or pretend boyfriend, girlfriend relationship. It no longer turns me on and in fact has the opposite affect.

In most of my exploits with Thai prostitutes, I was thinking, it is the girl that is in control and trying to manipulate me, not the other way round. Perhaps it`s us men that are being used by these women. The do gooders and women's lib always point the finger at the men as being the aggressors, brutes with no feelings, sex beasts and predators.

But what about the men who have become victims to the seductive lies and cheated into ruin?

Edited July 15, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[Ulysses G.]

...I suppose a young man coming to Thailand might have some use for your thoughts. But for the life of me I can't see any reason (with the exception of the outrageous salaries some helicopter pilots make) why a man under 60 would set foot on these shores.

I agree with this post - the whole thing.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[GreenSnapper]

In most of my exploits with Thai prostitutes, I was thinking, it is the girl that is in control and trying to manipulate me, not the other way round. Perhaps it`s us men that are being used by these women. The do gooders and women's lib always point the finger at the men as being the aggressors, brutes with no feelings, sex beasts and predators.

But what about the men who have become victims to the seductive lies and cheated into ruin?

Good comment.

The PC crowd in the West, and occasionally here in TV, actually has strong prejudices.

One is, "the woman is always the victim". You can read here for example, that prostitutes are "used" by their customers. It implies the low moral standard of the customer.

I remember having read a book ghost-written by a US-feminist about a young bar girl who came to Patpong. The funny thing is, when you read the book and all those "victim" drivel, after a while you notice that she is not at all a "victim", but a clever business woman. The book ends with the fact, that this girl, coming from a poor family, no education and so on.... ends with several husbands in Europe, spending big $$$, having a life her sisters in her village would never been able to dream about.

And of course, she made good use of the weaknesses of man. I don't blame her for that.

But a victim? Who uses whom?

[mark45y]

I have been with prostitutes in Thailand (Shame on me).

These women are advertising the fact they are available for a price or to the highest bidder. After each session, paid the money and said our farewells, laid back and thought; that was just one big anti climax. The most thrilling part was hiring the girl and waiting to see what she is really like in body and in mind. It`s always been disappointing. I have heard all their sales talk to try and get me hooked as a regular customer or pretend boyfriend, girlfriend relationship. It no longer turns me on and in fact has the opposite affect.

In most of my exploits with Thai prostitutes, I was thinking, it is the girl that is in control and trying to manipulate me, not the other way round. Perhaps it`s us men that are being used by these women. The do gooders and women's lib always point the finger at the men as being the aggressors, brutes with no feelings, sex beasts and predators.

But what about the men who have become victims to the seductive lies and cheated into ruin?

I have lived in a number of tourist areas in other places in the world besides Thailand. It has always been my experience that the locals know the best places, best experiences and best prices.

Bettlejuice if your experiences were anticlimactic you must try and do as the locals. If you go in a place with the majority of the customers are not locals (Thai) you are being treated to a sub human experience. Try and find some new venues where the majority of the clientele are well to do Thai men and your experience will surly improve.

Remember, 90% of the P4P business is Thai.

[Chunky1]

I think he is very much over-generalizing. I know plenty of "Johns" who respect sex-workers and certainly do not hate them. I have met a few real losers that do, but it is because they have problems with almost everyone that meets them. It is never good to judge any group of people by the actions of just a few.

I've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.

I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.

And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

This mindset might help a guy rationalize his behaviour, but it certainly does nothing for his ability to establish and maintain meaningful relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

An example, if you want one, is the significant number of foreigners living in Thailand who, having married the woman of their dreams (lists of their positive attributes above that of their western sisters a frequent comment here on TV) but who then continue to play away from home, purchasing the services of prostitutes as a side dish to their 'happy marriage'.

And that's putting aside the issue of paying for sex is in itself a near perfect example of the act of self emasculation.

Sometimes I get a belly laugh out of posts. You know a real guffaw. And the above post is one of those that tickled my funny bone.

50, 60 or 70 percent of the people reading this thread are over 60 years of age.

They are not looking for a meaningful anything let alone a meaningful relationship. They aren’t looking for a job. They aren’t looking to have kids. They aren’t looking to have an extended family. They aren’t looking to change the world. They aren’t looking to save the world.

They have done all that stuff. Trust me on this. They got burned by some old woman somewhere but escaped with enough cash to live out life in Thailand.

Lets look at life from the view of the actual readers of TV. The old guy is not going to change, whatever happens to him. He is not going to get worse or better. Dating a whore or dating the virgin Mary is not going to make one bit of difference to the old duffer. After sex he is not going to have a wonderful pink afterglow and dream about children playing in fields of daisy’s. He is reaching for a cigarette and beer like he has done most of his life. Having sex with hookers in not going to emasculate an old guy. He is so far past that and has so many tee shirts that it boggles the imagination.

Trust me, if you don’t have to work and don’t have any family left alive who you care about or who care about you and don’t have any self delusions about your image in the mirror nothing you do after your 60th birthday is going to change your lifestyle much.

I suppose a young man coming to Thailand might have some use for your thoughts. But for the life of me I can’t see any reason (with the exception of the outrageous salaries some helicopter pilots make) why a man under 60 would set foot on these shores.

This is a good post, very depressing yet brutally honest. It definitely puts all the balcony divers and farang bitterness in perspective.

[GuestHouse]

[i've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

I think you have this totally backwards ......It is our previous treatment by western women (or the legal system in the western world) that has caused us the damage.Not anything we have had happen to us in Thailand, if anything the Thai P4P girls are curing me of the damage done to me by a western woman who allegedly loved me for 30 years.

I originally came to Thailand to avoid women ...... not chase them.

I don't disagree you are in need of a cure.

[GuestHouse]

I think he is very much over-generalizing. I know plenty of "Johns" who respect sex-workers and certainly do not hate them. I have met a few real losers that do, but it is because they have problems with almost everyone that meets them. It is never good to judge any group of people by the actions of just a few.

I've not said that using prostitutes causes a man to hate them - I have countered the view that using prostitutes has no negative impact on the men who do so. I have said doing so brings about or perhaps encourages an already existent negative view of women to the detriment of the man's ability to have relationship with women who are not prostitutes.

I've pointed at comments here in this thread of evidence of the mindset that results. For example, a number of guys posting extremely negative views of western women ex wives etc or even the view that marriage is akin to prostitution.

And too, the clearly expressed objectification of women by supporters of prostitution within this thread.

This mindset might help a guy rationalize his behaviour, but it certainly does nothing for his ability to establish and maintain meaningful relationships with women who are not prostitutes.

An example, if you want one, is the significant number of foreigners living in Thailand who, having married the woman of their dreams (lists of their positive attributes above that of their western sisters a frequent comment here on TV) but who then continue to play away from home, purchasing the services of prostitutes as a side dish to their 'happy marriage'.

And that's putting aside the issue of paying for sex is in itself a near perfect example of the act of self emasculation.

Sometimes I get a belly laugh out of posts. You know a real guffaw. And the above post is one of those that tickled my funny bone.

50, 60 or 70 percent of the people reading this thread are over 60 years of age.

They are not looking for a meaningful anything let alone a meaningful relationship. They aren’t looking for a job. They aren’t looking to have kids. They aren’t looking to have an extended family. They aren’t looking to change the world. They aren’t looking to save the world.

They have done all that stuff. Trust me on this. They got burned by some old woman somewhere but escaped with enough cash to live out life in Thailand.

Lets look at life from the view of the actual readers of TV. The old guy is not going to change, whatever happens to him. He is not going to get worse or better. Dating a whore or dating the virgin Mary is not going to make one bit of difference to the old duffer. After sex he is not going to have a wonderful pink afterglow and dream about children playing in fields of daisy’s. He is reaching for a cigarette and beer like he has done most of his life. Having sex with hookers in not going to emasculate an old guy. He is so far past that and has so many tee shirts that it boggles the imagination.

Trust me, if you don’t have to work and don’t have any family left alive who you care about or who care about you and don’t have any self delusions about your image in the mirror nothing you do after your 60th birthday is going to change your lifestyle much.

I suppose a young man coming to Thailand might have some use for your thoughts. But for the life of me I can’t see any reason (with the exception of the outrageous salaries some helicopter pilots make) why a man under 60 would set foot on these shores.

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

Edited July 15, 2010 by GuestHouse

[cardholder]

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

I can guarantee with 100% certainty that there are AN AWFUL LOT MORE 60 OR 70 SOMETHING FALANGS WHO ARE NOT PUSHING KIDS AROUND

Edited July 15, 2010 by cardholder

[mahtin]

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

Pays to check your ammunition; you may not be shooting blanks as you thought.

[Chunky1]

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

Pays to check your ammunition; you may not be shooting blanks as you thought.

Or it is someone else doing the shooting.

[GuestHouse]

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

I can guarantee with 100% certainty that there are AN AWFUL LOT MORE 60 OR 70 SOMETHING FALANGS WHO ARE NOT PUSHING KIDS AROUND

For Mark45y to be correct in what he says farang men in Thailand over the age of 60 are looking for you'd have to be able to guarantee with 100% certainty that there are absolutely no Farang men over the age of 60 in Thailand happily starting families and setting off, often once more, on a life of fatherhood and all the cares, responsibilities and let's not forget pleasures that it brings.

[elkangorito]

I can guarantee with 100% certainty that there are AN AWFUL LOT MORE 60 OR 70 SOMETHING FALANGS WHO ARE NOT PUSHING KIDS AROUND

What a totally vague, inaccurate & unproveable statement!

[sarahsbloke]

Hopefully I will be pushing a pram around sometime in the near future. My wife has been promised an incentive scheme for providing 2 children (DNA trested at point of production). She is very keen to get the promised bonus and I am very tired! I'm not quite 60 yet.

Edited July 15, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[mark45y]

There's an awful lot of 60 and 70 something Farang men pushing their infant children around Thailand in baby buggies, which might suggest that while Mark45y's comments are entertaining they are not entirely founded in the reality out there.

I can guarantee with 100% certainty that there are AN AWFUL LOT MORE 60 OR 70 SOMETHING FALANGS WHO ARE NOT PUSHING KIDS AROUND

For Mark45y to be correct in what he says farang men in Thailand over the age of 60 are looking for you'd have to be able to guarantee with 100% certainty that there are absolutely no Farang men over the age of 60 in Thailand happily starting families and setting off, often once more, on a life of fatherhood and all the cares, responsibilities and let's not forget pleasures that it brings.

Try re reading. I didn’t say 100% and Cardholder said he was a 100% certain there were more old men without children than with.

There are always going to be freaks of nature. And I guess white crows. But in general old guys don’t come to Thailand to start families.

Are you really disagreeing with the statement that men over 60 don’t come to Thailand to start families?

Nothing is ever 100% accurate. I’m sure there are some Thai women in love with Farangs too. I would never dispute that. I am sure there are some waitresses in go go bars that don’t go with customers. I’ll even bet there are some employees at the new central mall in Pattaya that don’t dabble in the P4P trade. Nothing is impossible.

[Shotime]

There was one very good point about paying for sex that is valid. Some of the working girls are drug addicts. Where your money goes is not a good place. Other than staying away from these women, I have no problem with paying for anything I want.

I would also like to comment on the constant reference to being old, fat, ugly, and no game. Is it possible to be old, cute, skinny, and have a little game left? It's my opinion that the stupid, young, ugly members who continue to make this disrespectful remark, could probably use a couple baht.

[mark45y]

There was one very good point about paying for sex that is valid. Some of the working girls are drug addicts. Where your money goes is not a good place. Other than staying away from these women, I have no problem with paying for anything I want.

I would also like to comment on the constant reference to being old, fat, ugly, and no game. Is it possible to be old, cute, skinny, and have a little game left? It's my opinion that the stupid, young, ugly members who continue to make this disrespectful remark, could probably use a couple baht.

The drug thing is bad but the same could be said for motorcycle taxi drivers. Would you suggest not using motorcycle taxi drivers? Or Baht bus drivers in Pattaya? Better to attack the drug problem at the source than discriminating against the users.

[Shotime]

I think you missed the point. Which is not uncommon here.

I only meant that the money you spend can wind up in the hands of drug dealers which, in turn, goes to funding some very bad enterprises.

Who would get into a drug-addled taxi driver's car, anyway?

Maybe you didn't miss the point. Are you saying you frequent women who you know are drug-addicts?

Edited July 15, 2010 by Shotime