Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[way2muchcoffee]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

And how many wealthy or well educated Thai women are their working as prostitutes?

In the real world the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars are from poor backgrounds, have little education, and are very likely to be single mothers raising children they had before they came to work as a prostitute.

Force the fathers to pay. Sorted.

A woman can work in a factory and, after a couple of years, be making 8,000 bt/month and up to 12k with overtime. This is more than enough to raise a child.

The ones who are sold into it by their mothers and fathers are the ones we should pity. Others make the decision because they choose to live the high life with wealthy customers and enjoy partying.

Edited July 19, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[mark45y]

Sure I have heard some stories that tug at the heart, even recently. A couple still haunt me.

One woman had never been to a mall before. She had farmer hands and farmer feet. She could have walked on or handled broken glass with no pain.

I took her to a mall and bought her a pair of shoes and purse. She got this dazed look in her eyes and twirled around like a dancer. Around and around and sang in Thai, “I am so happy, so happy” over and over again.

Another when I told her I was married (I’m not) she pleaded with me to have her as a mia noi, or gick or anything. “Please, please get me out of here I am so afraid.” She didn’t care about how much money. She just wanted me to get her out of the bar. Sex hadn’t been good. Even though she had a child she was unused to sex. So it wasn’t sex I was just a kind face. And more but I’ll start to tear up.

[GuestHouse]

They still have plenty of other choices and there are a fair number of women in universities and middle class jobs who work in the sex trade to make extra money.

Listen up UG, I'm sure your old enough to realize that just because the advert says 'Student' or 'Office Girl' it doesn't necessarily mean 'Student' or 'Office Girl'......

[GuestHouse]

Very cute stories Mark, but you never answered the question.

Are you denying that the vast majority of Thai women working as prostitutes are from poor backgrounds, have no education beyond M3 are are very likely to be single mothers supporting a child or children they had before they turned to prostitution?

[F1fanatic]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

And how many wealthy or well educated Thai women are their working as prostitutes?

In the real world the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars are from poor backgrounds, have little education, and are very likely to be single mothers raising children they had before they came to work as a prostitute.

Its difficult to admit - but the poor, uneducated woman could always work in a 7-11 etc.

They won't make lots of money, but enough to get by as per everyone else.....

Those that don't, choose to work in a bar to make more money, and hopefully (!) find a farang that is prepared to marry them!! It happens often .

[mark45y]

Mark45y, are you denying that the vast majority of Thai women working as prostitutes are from poor backgrounds, have no education beyond M3 are are very likely to be single mothers supporting a child or children they had before they turned to prostitution?

Vast majority are from poor backgrounds both financially and educationally but that is the vast majority of Thai’s.

Most ladies start working in a Thai bar around 16 years of age and never make it to a falang establishment.

Some Thai parents kick them out of the house. I know one who’s father told his daughter, “since you are booming every boy with pants in the town you might as well work in a bar make some money at it.”

I think the vast majority of poor uneducated Thai women never have or will work in a bar.

I certainly don't think the majority of poor uneducated single Thai mothers work in bars.

[GuestHouse]

Its difficult to admit - but the poor, uneducated woman could always work in a 7-11 etc.

Can you touch base with Mark45y, he states there are 2.8 million Prostitutes in Thailand, I'm not going to dispute the number, but surely there aren't enough 7-11s (etc) to take that number of women. ?!

And that's putting aside 7-11's recruitment policy of nobody over 25 need apply.

[mark45y]

I told a bar girl that I lived with I was going quit my job and buy a restaurant. I would train her and hire some other help to run it. I would expect her to cook and manage the place.

I told her I was going to stay at home and clean the house and do the laundry and cook dinner. I told her I was going to go the salon and have my hair dyed and face massaged daily. I told her I was going to do the household shopping and go the aerobics class with the old ladies and do the one and two and three and four dancing thing daily.

She cried for two days. “I not work in restaurant! I only like shopping.” she sobbed.

[GuestHouse]

So we agree then that the background of most women working as Thai prostitutes are from poor backgrounds, poorly educated, likely to be single parents.

I also agree that these things do not automatically make working in a bar the only option, but they severely restrict options.

But at least we have established that when buying sex from a Thai prostitute one is doing so from someone who is almost certainly poor, ill educated and likely under pressure to provide of a child or children.

mmmmm

[F1fanatic]

Its difficult to admit - but the poor, uneducated woman could always work in a 7-11 etc.

Can you touch base with Mark45y, he states there are 2.8 million Prostitutes in Thailand, I'm not going to dispute the number, but surely there aren't enough 7-11s (etc) to take that number of women. ?!

And that's putting aside 7-11's recruitment policy of nobody over 25 need apply.

Fair enough. But somehow I know there are jobs out there that don't involve prostitution......

Thailand is known for its 'bar hostesses' - above any other country. Other countries are just as poor (if not poorer), but the women don't seem so ready to pretend they love any foreigner they think has money....

Good luck to them - any idiot that believes a woman he met in a bar actually cares about him, deserves what he gets .

[MB1]

This raises a question - When someone cannot choose, they cannot freely give consent.

There are plenty of poor Thai people who choose not to work in the sex industry and makes ends meet with common jobs. As usual, on this subject, your rhetoric has little to do with reality.

And how many wealthy or well educated Thai women are their working as prostitutes?

In the real world the vast majority of women working as prostitutes in Thai bars are from poor backgrounds, have little education, and are very likely to be single mothers raising children they had before they came to work as a prostitute.

Its difficult to admit - but the poor, uneducated woman could always work in a 7-11 etc.

They won't make lots of money, but enough to get by as per everyone else.....

Those that don't, choose to work in a bar to make more money, and hopefully (!) find a farang that is prepared to marry them!! It happens often .

So what about all those that service Thai guys, an article I read says that at least 450,000 Thai men visit prostitutes every day and then go's on to say, quoted below...

"Thus, much of the impetus sustaining the incredible rate of prostitution in Thailand is cultural; "Thai men think it is their right to have cheap sex, ... and there are enough poor Thai women to make it possible."

Prostitution in many cases has become integrated with initiation rights: "[f]or many Thai men, a trip to the neighborhood brothel is a rite of passage, a tradition passed from father to son."

[elkangorito]

Employer: Well Miss, what are your qualifications? We, at <insert name of well known convenience store>, require our staff to have lots of experience with people as well as some type of formal qualification.

Miss: I worked at a...errr...restaurant for 5 years. I had to deal with lots of foreigners everyday.

Employer: Great! What did you do there?

Miss: I...errr...provided personal services for...errr...special clients.

Employer: Fantastic! What qualifications do you have?

Miss: What's a qualification?

Employer: Do you have a degree? You must have a degree to work for us!

Miss: I thought you wanted someone who can speak English, use a till & is good with people?

Employer: Well...yes but you must have a degree...any degree will do. Even a degree in philosphy or arts will do.

Miss: Sorry. I only have experience.

Employer: Thanks Miss. We'll be in touch.

Perhaps another reason why so many have to choose a life as a sex worker.

Edited July 19, 2010 by elkangorito

[mark45y]

So we agree then that the background of most women working as Thai prostitutes are from poor backgrounds, poorly educated, likely to be single parents.

I also agree that these things do not automatically make working in a bar the only option, but they severely restrict options.

But at least we have established that when buying sex from a Thai prostitute one is doing so from someone who is almost certainly poor, ill educated and likely under pressure to provide of a child or children.

mmmmm

I agree with two out of three. 20 years ago I would have agreed with three out of three.

Now I think a number of other things have happened. 1. Drugs, drastically changed things. 2. Womens rights even the few inroads that have been made in Thailand has made prostitution a more viable job. 3. The Thai appetite for toys has increased along with modernization. A new cell phone or motorcycle for herself or boyfriend may be the driving force behind her decision to work in a bar. 4. The money sent home in the past few years has drastically decreased. Even in the past 5 years would estimate a 30% drop in revenue going North.

In my personal experience about 75% of the new bar workers have children and or family responsibilities. 25% are in it for other reasons including fun and games. Face it, it is so easy to get into. The price of a bus ticket. The bar provides room and board and spending money until she get going. In some cases the bar even provides the bus ticket. There is a tremendous amount of turnover. Ladies leaving to go back home, get married, or whatever. At least 200% a year. At least. Do you know how flighty 20 year old women are? They leave home at the drop of the hat. Especially since our modern women have convinced them they are men’s equal and should be treated and act as such. And Wow, if she can dance she doesn’t even have to go with men. The salary and tips can add up to 30,000 a month easily.

[F1fanatic]

Employer: Well Miss, what are your qualifications? We, at <insert name of well known convenience store>, require our staff to have lots of experience with people as well as some type of formal qualification.

Miss: I worked at a...errr...restaurant for 5 years. I had to deal with lots of foreigners everyday.

Employer: Great! What did you do there?

Miss: I...errr...provided personal services for...errr...special clients.

Employer: Fantastic! What qualifications do you have?

Miss: What's a qualification?

Employer: Do you have a degree? You must have a degree to work for us!

Miss: I thought you wanted someone who can speak English, use a till & is good with people?

Employer: Well...yes but you must have a degree...any degree will do. Even a degree in philosphy or arts will do.

Miss: Sorry. I only have experience.

Employer: Thanks Miss. We'll be in touch.

Perhaps another reason why so many have to choose a life as a sex worker.

Still trying to work this one out......

Yes, bar hostesses learn to speak a reasonable amount of English as it benefits their trade - but have no education/intelligence whatsoever.

Why on earth would they walk into a job that demands some sort of intelligence??

[mark45y]

MB 1 is getting to the heart of the issue. As you become cultured like a Thai man you naturally assume that cheap sex is your right.

Not only that but if you weren’t born in Thailand you have a lot of time to make up for.

[GuestHouse]

Do you know how flighty 20 year old women are? They leave home at the drop of the hat. Especially since our modern women have convinced them they are men’s equal and should be treated and act as such.

A typewriter and a latchkey.

------------

Are women less equal than men... when did that happen?

[Ulysses G.]

They still have plenty of other choices and there are a fair number of women in universities and middle class jobs who work in the sex trade to make extra money.

Listen up UG, I'm sure your old enough to realize that just because the advert says 'Student' or 'Office Girl' it doesn't necessarily mean 'Student' or 'Office Girl'......

Who cares what the "ads" say. It is no secret that there are a fair number of office workers, students, moonlighting moms and others involved in the sex trade. Thailand is one of the few countries where the higher the GDP goes up, the more women sign up for this industry. Of course, In Japan it is also common and it is a very wealthy country.

[mark45y]

Employer: Well Miss, what are your qualifications? We, at <insert name of well known convenience store>, require our staff to have lots of experience with people as well as some type of formal qualification.

Miss: I worked at a...errr...restaurant for 5 years. I had to deal with lots of foreigners everyday.

Employer: Great! What did you do there?

Miss: I...errr...provided personal services for...errr...special clients.

Employer: Fantastic! What qualifications do you have?

Miss: What's a qualification?

Employer: Do you have a degree? You must have a degree to work for us!

Miss: I thought you wanted someone who can speak English, use a till & is good with people?

Employer: Well...yes but you must have a degree...any degree will do. Even a degree in philosphy or arts will do.

Miss: Sorry. I only have experience.

Employer: Thanks Miss. We'll be in touch.

Perhaps another reason why so many have to choose a life as a sex worker.

Still trying to work this one out......

Yes, bar hostesses learn to speak a reasonable amount of English as it benefits their trade - but have no education/intelligence whatsoever.

Why on earth would they walk into a job that demands some sort of intelligence??

I work really hard and have a couple of degrees and know lots and lots of hookers who make more money than I do. How dumb is that?

18 year old strippers in Tampa make $1000 a day easy. There are clubs in Bangkok that make Tampa look cheap.

Edited July 19, 2010 by mark45y

[Ulysses G.]

Employer: Do you have a degree? You must have a degree to work for us!

Miss: I thought you wanted someone who can speak English, use a till & is good with people?

Employer: Well...yes but you must have a degree...any degree will do. Even a degree in philosphy or arts will do.

Perhaps another reason why so many have to choose a life as a sex worker.

Do you really think that workers have to have a University degree to work in 7/11 or Family Mart or a noodle stall?

[GuestHouse]

It is no secret that there are a fair number of office workers, students, moonlighting moms and others involved in the sex trade.

What sort of percentage do you think that is?

[Ulysses G.]

I have no idea and neither do you.

[mark45y]

They still have plenty of other choices and there are a fair number of women in universities and middle class jobs who work in the sex trade to make extra money.

Listen up UG, I'm sure your old enough to realize that just because the advert says 'Student' or 'Office Girl' it doesn't necessarily mean 'Student' or 'Office Girl'......

Who cares what the "ads" say. It is no secret that there are a fair number of office workers, students, moonlighting moms and others involved in the sex trade. Thailand is one of the few countries where the higher the GDP goes up, the more women sign up for this industry. Of course, In Japan it is also common and it is a very wealthy country.

I am really beginning to miss Pattaya. Maybe I should move back. I haven’t been groped by a lady doctor in two years.

[GuestHouse]

I have no idea and neither do you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it you who said

It is no secret that there are a fair number......

If, as YOU CLAIM, it's no secret, YOU ought to be able to give us a few more details.

Or are you just making stuff up?

[mark45y]

It is no secret that there are a fair number of office workers, students, moonlighting moms and others involved in the sex trade.

What sort of percentage do you think that is?

I can tell you where to find out. Check out the college schedules in Bangkok, when tuition is due. Then go to Pattaya the week before tuition has to be paid. There is one particular area they all head to.

In Chiang Mai there is one university that is quite well known in that area but will let UG explain that one.

[Ulysses G.]

ALL of them are known for it, but one had a bunch of students busted for running their own sex club.

[GuestHouse]

It is no secret that there are a fair number of office workers, students, moonlighting moms and others involved in the sex trade.

What sort of percentage do you think that is?

I can tell you where to find out. Check out the college schedules in Bangkok, when tuition is due. Then go to Pattaya the week before tuition has to be paid. There is one particular area they all head to.

In Chiang Mai there is one university that is quite well known in that area but will let UG explain that one.

I would not doubt it. But tiny tiny numbers in the big picture.

[GuestHouse]

ALL of them are known for it, but one had a bunch of students busted for running their own sex club.

You've been on those 'other websites' haven't you UG.

[Ulysses G.]

I have no idea and neither do you.

If, as YOU CLAIM, it's no secret, YOU ought to be able to give us a few more details.

I can give you LOTS of details, but I can not provide accurate statistics for an often hidden business and either could the PM of the country if you asked him to.

[Ulysses G.]

ALL of them are known for it, but one had a bunch of students busted for running their own sex club.

You've been on those 'other websites' haven't you UG.

Nope, but I have been to Madam Flukes nightclub in several of its locations.

[GuestHouse]

I have no idea and neither do you.

If, as YOU CLAIM, it's no secret, YOU ought to be able to give us a few more details.

I can give you LOTS of details, but I can not provide accurate statistics for an often hidden business and either could the PM of the country if you asked him to.

Go on, have a guess, what percentage of Thailand prostitutes are students, nurses, trolly dollies (or whatever else it is that floats your boat)?

Nah.... Your making it up. A smoke screen to avoid the truth, that even Mark45y agrees with - Most prostitutes in Thailand are from poor backgrounds, ill educated and likely single mothers (Marlk45y gives a figure of 75% fall into the single mother category - I'm inclined to agree with that number).