Gay Acceptance

[TokyoT]

Based upon my own observations in LOS, it seems to me while Thailand is more accepting of gay/alternative life style/ trans-gender situations than most western countries. There does not seem to be much real acceptance for allowing gay/alternative life style/ trans-gender folks to have a place of high standing in society.

Seems that Thai society has cut out a nitch to place this part of their society in, and everyone is OK with things as long as nobody tries to leave that nitch. For example there are many trans-gender shows and such, and it seems to be perfectly acceptable for a trans-gender person to be viewed as a very good entertainer, but only an entertainer.

Thais are obviously more accepting of feminine behavior from males. But it also appears to me that being “gay” is almost seen as a phase some Thai’s go thru, and to be seen as a respectable member of society they should still pick a wife and have a more “traditional” relationship.

Maybe this is just my limited exposure, or is this indeed the case?

So maybe in the west gay/alternative life style/ trans-gender folks are not allowed to play the game, and in Thailand they let you play the game as long as you stay on your side of the court?

[Ijustwannateach]

I wouldn't exactly equate "acceptance in Thailand" with "allowing a place of high standing." The two are concepts at very different places in the spectrum.

However, I agree with you that, like in most societies, homosexuality is discriminated against in Thailand, at least in subtle, indirect ways. Not getting that promotion, losing status among relatives, being pitied- these are all consequences of not going the "married with children" route here for whatever reason.

"Steven"

[Tyree D.]

I teach at a Mathayom school and there are already hordes of katoeys. It's normal. Boys grow up experimenting.

[PeaceBlondie]

Teaching in matayom schools for the last two years, I had students who were completely out of the closet at age 11, pre-pubertal, all the way through every year to my current group of vocational students to age 20. I don't see it as 'experimental' although it could be. And some are discreetly halfway in the closet, without acting out the kateoy caricature.

Status? We see openly gay ajarns and hotel managers. Maybe not openly gay politicians. There are some gay/bisexual Chinese-Thais who stay in the closet all their life, with boyfriend on the side undercover.

I don't know. I think we only see a tiny portion of Thai homosexuality.

Edited July 1, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[ProThaiExpat]

My experience has caused me to believe that if your successful in a professional or business way, especially if you have money, your gay proclivities are seen as eccentricities. but if your poor, your condemned.

Thailand, in my view, is a very money oriented society and the rich are forgiven almost anything.

In any society where conformity is paramount to acceptance, gays will always be out in the cold. Their only hope is legal equality that with time will modify societal views. Take inter-racial marriage in the west as an example.

For those of us who have long ago stopped "living up to the Joneses", acceptance by society is low on our priority list and certainly nothing we would go out of our way to acquire.

[Merlin]

[...snip]

Seems that Thai society has cut out a nitch to place this part of their society in, and everyone is OK with things as long as nobody tries to leave that nitch.  For example there are many trans-gender shows and such, and it seems to be perfectly acceptable for a trans-gender person to be viewed as a very good entertainer, but only an entertainer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about that - I've seen katoeys in "normal" jobs quite often - office work, selling mobile phones, and so on.

[Scott]

Attitudes have been changing over the past 20 years that I've been here--or seem to have changed.

Being gay was more tolerated in the past, say about 10-15 years ago. In the past 5 to 10 years, I've heard/seen more openly homophobic Thai people. I think this has something to do with the rise of the middle class--a group which is not known for its tolerance.

[Guest endure]

We used to have this discussion in soc.culture.thai 10 years ago. One of the Thai Ajahns kept saying that gays were discriminated against in Thailand. It wasn't until a farang pointed out that in Farangland 'discrimination' meant having your head kicked in whereas in Thailand 'discrimination' meant being gossiped about that the Ajahn understood the difference.

Edited July 2, 2005 by endure

[haha]

I think homophobia is a result of what I call - fear of the unknown.

having lived in san francisco for about 20 years, I recall when I first moved there. frankly, I was sort of suspicious of black people, and gays because I never had any contacts with them before.

over the years though, I found that they were just people like me who had feelings and desires.

the key issue is respect. if you respect one another, then, all is ok. when I was in san francisco, occasionally, I would have gays proposition me, and I would just tell them in a nice way that I was straight, and that would be the end of it.

I have this good friend who is bi-sexual, and his girlfriend is bi-sexual. can you imagine their love life? hehehe.

[jdinasia]

The Thai men that I know would say while "discrimination" exists here. It really isn't an issue. They don't lose jobs or promotions etc. There is a little "must be karma" thought from straights but not any more than "He was born to a richer family so this must be my karma" ...

As for social positioning? Money probably is the deciding factor more often than not. Wealthier Thais get promoted faster than poorer Thais all other things being equal (and sometimes not so equal)

I avoid 95% of the gay Thai/Farang scene and find that few enough guys are too bothered about being gay. However, coming out, is often as or more difficult as in the West. Not because of descrimination but instead, because of a stronger imperative not to let their familes down by not having children etc.