Thai Democrat Party Heading Into A Dark Storm

[moe666]

Anything that destroys the country  they get to right away but if it will help Thailand forget about it. Looser mentality.

[mazeltov]

Indeed, the main question is in my opinion, whether or not a law can have retroactive power.

In most countries, this question has been the focal point of many law studies, not only in criminal law, but mostly. And most lawyers agree that a law can be applied retroactively IF it is in favor of the defendant. (lex mitior).

Also most studies agree that a law cannot be applied retroactively if it is harsher to the defendant.

It would be interesting to have the opinion of a Thai lawyer on this subject. I will ask my colleagues and get back to this post.

Indeed. Aside from arbitrary law enforcement, now the spectre of retrospective law enforcement looms over Thailand.

A terrible precedent (in Thailand's legal situation) not to set.

Not unique. Nuremburg and more recently Saddam Hussein

No precedent in Thai law either as it is code based and not english common law based so any decisonj a judge makes today can be made differently tomorrow based on the merits of the specific case.

We don't need to look at Nuremburg or Saddam Hussein, but can look much closer at a similar issue. TRT and the 2 others. The ban of party executives from politics as the part of the party dissolution.

Case Study: Constititional Court Ruling. Decision No. 3-5/2550 (2007)

May 30, 2007. The Constitution Tribunal issued an order to dissolve the Thai Rak Thai Party, the Pattana Chart Thai Party and the Pandin Thai Party as well as to suspend the electoral rights of 111 executive members of the Thai Rak Thai Party, 19 executive members of the Pattana Chart Thai Party, 3 executive members of Pandin Thai Party, for a period of five years, effective on the date of the order of party dissolution.

Apllied law: Announcement No. 27 (Section 3) by the Council for Democratic Reform dated 30 September B.E. 2549 (2006) It stated that "3. Should the Constitutional Court or any other organ acting on behalf of the Constitutional Court give the order to dissolve any political party for committing an act prohibited by the Organic Law on Political Parties B.E. 2541 (1998), the electoral rights of the Executive Board of such political party shall be revoked for a 5-year period as from the issuance of such order."

Panikabutara Coorey, Pornsakol --- "The evolution of the rule of law in Thailand: The Thai constitutions" [2008], University of New South Wales Faculty of Law Research Series:

10. Arguable interpretation of the retrospective principle in the area of electoral law

When considering the doctrine in the context of criminal law, it cannot be denied that the formal legality of the rule of law which requires law to be prospective has theoretically and practically gained a strong momentum. The above examples clearly indicate that the Court is ready to strike out any unpredictable law. However, when the doctrine is applied in the context of electoral law, the interpretation of such doctrine may not render a clear result as it does in the criminal case. It is concerned that the formal legality on the prospective law may not be appropriately interpreted in the case where the Thai Rak Thai Party of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was ordered to be dissolved and the members were revoked the political rights by the Constitutional Tribunal.[68]

The decision for the dissolution of the Party was relied on the Declaration of the Council for Democratic Reform (No.27) (“the Declaration”) which was the applicable law before the 2006 interim constitution was promulgated.[69] Harsh criticism of the decision is inevitable since the Tribunal based its decision on the Declaration which was approved by the coup. The primary concern of such criticism is whether the Declaration could render the retrospective effect on the corrupted political activities which had been committed before the military coup has taken control of the country.

According to section 3 of the Declaration, the executive member of the disbanded political party is prohibited from engaging in any electoral activity for 5 years.[70] By dissolving the Thai Rak Thai Party, the Tribunal therefore revoked the electoral rights of the Party’s executive members. The Party was banned on the ground that two senior members had hired small political parties to artificially run in the general election on 2 April 2006 in order for Thai Rak Thai Party to win the election.[71] However, the hiring was committed before the Declaration became effective and if the Declaration was applicable to the case, is this the example of the violation of the rule of law?

In answering “no” to the question, six out of nine judges of the Constitutional Tribunal agree that the revocation of the electoral rights is not a criminal penalty. It was only a legal measure derived from the effect of law which entitles the dissolution of a political party engaging in prohibited acts under the Organic Act on Political Parties (1998).[72] By deeming that such revocation is not a penalty, the retroactive effect can take place without interfering the rule of law. It is further affirmed by the majority of the judges that the rule of law as against the retroactive legislation could be tainted only when the retroactive legislation renders the criminal punishment to the respondent.

The opponent of the decision argue that even though the revocation of the electoral rights is a criminal penalty, the fact that such revocation renders a retroactive effect has proved that the law is not prospective.[73] Whether the decision is sensible in the eye of the rule of law scholars depends on how the principle of retroactive law can be interpreted. Even though the decision leaves some room for controversy especially for those who lost their political rights, it is admitted that the existence of the retrospective law principle in the Thai constitutions is secured at a satisfactory level. This is particularly true for those laws which contain the criminal penalty because the Court of Justice has never failed to overthrow such retroactive legislations.[74]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UNSWLRS/2008/45.html

Borwornsak Uwanno*: Economic Crisis and Political Crisis in Thailand: Past and Present, 2009, National Taiwan University Law Review:

The Constitutional Tribunal applied the CDR

Announcement No. 27 Article 3 to revoke the electoral rights of the

executives of the dissolved parties for 5 years, even though the said

Announcement was issued after the commission of the acts which were

grounds for those parties’ dissolution. The Tribunal reasoned that

“the

principle prohibiting retroactive enforcement of law that will cause adverse

effect on individuals emanates from the ‘no punishment without law’

principle; however, such principle applies only to criminal acts” and that

“the revocation of electoral rights is not a criminal sanction but it is a legal

measure which resulted from the laws empowering such parties”

dissolution.”

27 The Announcement could therefore be applied retroactively

(

ex post facto

). Three Supreme Court judges disagreed. The decision to

dissolve the TRT and other parties was thus supported by six out of nine

judges

http://www.law.ntu.edu.tw/ntulawreview/articles/4-3/07.pdf

-Announcement by the Council for Democratic Reform No. 27: http://www.ect.go.th/english/files/laws/announcement27.pdf

-Summary of the Decision of the Constitutional Tribunal (Unofficial Translation) http://www.constitutionalcourt.or.th/download/news/Party1.pdf

[jayjay0]

The reds on this forum who are salivating over the possible banning of the Dems should remeber that their own party the PTP is the second reincarnation of its two banned predisessers TRT and PPP which seem to have survived under the new guise.

It would indeed be a shame if Abhisit were not given a chance to show what he can do for this country.

So far he has shown himself to be the most honest and smartest PM this country has seen in a long while and is probably the only chance this country has of getting out of the mess left by those who have gone before and the reds.

If Thaksin ever got back it would be a complete disaster for the country as he went all out for revenge and to recoup his losses.

PTP have shown by their recent by-election manifesto of "bring back Thaksin, pardon everyone in the reds and yellows, bring back 30B health scheme (now free) and reinstate the village fund (1 millB to each village just before an election)that they have no ideas on running the country without the big boss.

If the democrats are getting disbanded and Abhisit banned from politics, than will it be because they are GUILTY. Democrats violated the law.

Most honest and smartest PM??? What a bullshit. There are not many Thai people who like him at all or support this govt who can only stay in power with a rule by decree.

I don't know what is the recent election manifesto by the PTP, but the Thai electorate will vote for it or not and it is not the decision of a NZ countryside genius who has no clue about Thai politics. Face it.

My My you seem awfully bitter any particular candidate for most honest PM or are you just another no brain red shirt. You know the type just rant everything is wrong unless it is my way. Being not to well from the neck up I will bring my old friend Thaksin back to save the country.

[jayjay0]

Instead of coming up with whitewash attempts and lame excuses the Democrats should prove that they are the morally better and welcome and applaud the dissolution and ban of its leaders as the consequences they have to face, even if there is only a doubt that they are not 110% clean. Good politicians don't come under suspicion by the EC for nothing.

They should also request much harsher penalties and punishment as the law actually demands. As everybody knows a dissolution and a ban is actually not a solution nor keeps the culprits off.

How about voluntary to agree to be be resettled to a permanent live firing zone? Contribute and re-paying to the society with wearing some bright colored shirts in an area where the countries best peace keeping snipers can practice and improve their work?

That would definitely bring any discussion about double standards to end, for ever.

Do you walk around with a sign on your back saying kick me. Your posts show no knowledge of he situation just another opportunity for you to attack people who are for democracy. You red shirts fight at every opportunity you get for Anarchy, dream on. Your buddy is not going to come back and continue to rape the country. You will have to find another way to get to the trough.

[eggomaniac]

Thailand Is Buffeted By A Dark & Swirling Storm

Look folks, if you care about Thailand's future, please look at this Democratic Party Issue in perspective. Yes it is an 'important' crisis of stability, [or is that instability?], however it is only *one of the tremors warning of the splitting and shredding of Thailand. Thailand IS heading for a break up! *[the South, the North, Cambodia, Thaksin's reds, Sondhi's yellows, CORRUPTION, upcoming UNfair elections, !upcoming military power REshuffle!, drought, *<PARTIAL list, attempted assasination of Newin! and MORE]

The Joseph Solution, which has been in the works since 2007, with input from many, many Thais, resolves these Issues and Others. This DP Issue would simply 'evaporate', because there would be no political parties, not to be confused with one party political systems. This would be a no party system similar to that of the most succesful and longest lasting participitory dedmocraticy in the history of the World.

Also, there would be State controlled plebisciting that would ENSURE fair elections among reputable candidates. There would be a Chamber of Sober Second Thought to prevent Tyranny of the Majority. There would be a 'built in' Watch Dog mechanism that smells, hears and sees corruption and bark and BITE offenders. There would be 'democratic' stability, something Thailand has never experienced.

Sondhi AND Thaksin would BOTH endorse The Joseph Plan, [the Agenda which implements TJS, within months, NOT years]. They would BOTH accept their punishment, as would all of the other Red AND Yellow criminal leaders. [While there would be no 'amnesty', per se, tempering and compassion in sentencing could take into account they are products of the broken System not creators of the badly designed system. In a perveted sense, they are also victims of what the squabbling among themselves Khana Ratsadon foisted upon Thailand. In the 1930's, the KR had the Vishnu Given opportunity to work with, instead of against societal elements that would have developed into a Stable, Peaceful and Prosperous System, a veritable Dusit Thani come true. It will NEVER be too late to consider this fool proof approach.]

There are only TWO ways to STOP the all out Civil War Thailand is facing.

#1. Is to adopt the TJP to Implement the TJS. [Throw in European, Phillipine, Japanese, Chinese style mass education in International World language & Thailand would become a G30 to G20 Nation within 5 years. I guarantee it!]

#2. Call in Burmese and N Korean advisors to show them how to properly run a Corrupt Country. STOP, insanely, trying to exist as an OPEN & CLOSED country. a Free and Chained SP/LIT personality Country.

================================================================

All In favor of a CRACKDOWN ON CORRUPTION???? Hands up!

[gregb]

"Undemocrat Party" hasn't been used yet and would probably gain widespread PAD support as a bonus.

Nah...

Thaksin hasn't actually registered it yet, but he clearly has been using the "undemocrat party" in in a business capacity.

Too much danger of being sued by the square faced fugitive for trademark infringement.

[webfact]

NATION EXCLUSIVE

Verdict on dissolution likely by October: PM

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Since Bt29m subsidy case against Democrat Party is less complicated than the Bt258m one on donations, hearing is expected to be completed in just a few weeks, making an early ruling by the Constitution Court a distinct possibility, says Abhisit

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday that the Constitution Court verdict on the first case of Democrat Party dissolution could come as early as October.

The case involves a Bt29-million state subsidy that the Election Commission accuses the ruling party of misusing. The court will soon set hearing schedules based on the number of prosecution and defence witnesses.

Since this case is less complicated than the one that was submitted to the Constitution Court on Tuesday, the hearing is expected to be completed in just a few weeks, meaning a verdict could be delivered in October or November, Abhisit told The Nation.

Abhisit and other senior Democrats appeared less anxious about the Bt29-million case than was reported earlier. The party hopes to overturn charges of irregularities in the use of the subsidy to produce election-campaign materials by depicting it as just a case of an incomplete accounting report.

Even if the court rules that the party is guilty and thus has to be dissolved, senior Democrats believe there remains a chance for party executives to escape five-year bans from politics.

Abhisit admitted he could not escape responsibility because he was the one who signed the relevant financial reports, though the campaign materials were ordered and produced before he became party leader.

"What I'm wondering is whether the court can still dissolve our party if it is dissolved for the first case," Abhisit said, half-jokingly. He was quick to add that the two cases involved two different sets of party executives, both of which stand to face five-year political bans.

Abhisit said he expected the verdict in the second case - a Bt258-million "illegal" donation from TPI Polene Plc - to come "four or five months" after the ruling on the first case. However, a Constitution Court judge, Wasant Soipisut, did not dismiss the possibility of the court combining the two cases.

"It will be up to the Constitution Court to decide," Wasant said yesterday.

Democrat Party insiders have admitted that the second case is worrisome, because the money trails are evident. The Democrats, it is believed, will fight this case by distancing the party from the money and insisting that it was only an issue involving individuals.

During his meeting with Nation Group editors on media reform, Abhisit denied reports that the prospect of party dissolution has caused serious rifts among the Democrats.

"I have been party leader for five years and I can't remember a time when the party was more united," he said. "We went through many crises together, like an election boycott, or a coup, and the public never saw Democrats go out attacking one another over crucial moves made by the party."

He acknowledged that if a party-dissolution ruling came after Democrats had registered candidacy for a new election under the current party's banner, "it will be a massacre".

Asked to comment on the possibility of the number of Constitution Court judges being reduced to seven from nine on the judgement day, Abhisit said: "We think nine would be better than seven."

Wasant and Chalermphol Ek-uru are two Constitution Court judges who are withdrawing from the two cases to avoid possible conflicts of interest stemming from connections with the ruling party.

Meanwhile, Jaturon Chaisaeng, former acting leader of the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party, warned that the country would "go up in flames" again if the Democrat Party benefited from a "double standard" regarding the party-dissolution case.

"Anything short of outright dissolution, a ban on party executives and revocation of the prime minister's status as head of the government will be deemed a double standard," he said.

"This is not an attempt to put pressure on the Constitution Court. Who am I to be able to do that? I'm just speaking as a man who is very concerned about what could happen" if Democrats are let off the hook.

Jaturon also claimed that police and Department of Special Investigation officials involved in the Democrat cases had been facing political pressure.

-- The Nation 2010-07-15

[jayjay0]

Thailand Is Buffeted By A Dark & Swirling Storm

Look folks, if you care about Thailand's future, please look at this Democratic Party Issue in perspective. Yes it is an 'important' crisis of stability, [or is that instability?], however it is only *one of the tremors warning of the splitting and shredding of Thailand. Thailand IS heading for a break up! *[the South, the North, Cambodia, Thaksin's reds, Sondhi's yellows, CORRUPTION, upcoming UNfair elections, !upcoming military power REshuffle!, drought, *<PARTIAL list, attempted assasination of Newin! and MORE]

The Joseph Solution, which has been in the works since 2007, with input from many, many Thais, resolves these Issues and Others. This DP Issue would simply 'evaporate', because there would be no political parties, not to be confused with one party political systems. This would be a no party system similar to that of the most succesful and longest lasting participitory dedmocraticy in the history of the World.

Also, there would be State controlled plebisciting that would ENSURE fair elections among reputable candidates. There would be a Chamber of Sober Second Thought to prevent Tyranny of the Majority. There would be a 'built in' Watch Dog mechanism that smells, hears and sees corruption and bark and BITE offenders. There would be 'democratic' stability, something Thailand has never experienced.

Sondhi AND Thaksin would BOTH endorse The Joseph Plan, [the Agenda which implements TJS, within months, NOT years]. They would BOTH accept their punishment, as would all of the other Red AND Yellow criminal leaders. [While there would be no 'amnesty', per se, tempering and compassion in sentencing could take into account they are products of the broken System not creators of the badly designed system. In a perveted sense, they are also victims of what the squabbling among themselves Khana Ratsadon foisted upon Thailand. In the 1930's, the KR had the Vishnu Given opportunity to work with, instead of against societal elements that would have developed into a Stable, Peaceful and Prosperous System, a veritable Dusit Thani come true. It will NEVER be too late to consider this fool proof approach.]

There are only TWO ways to STOP the all out Civil War Thailand is facing.

#1. Is to adopt the TJP to Implement the TJS. [Throw in European, Phillipine, Japanese, Chinese style mass education in International World language & Thailand would become a G30 to G20 Nation within 5 years. I guarantee it!]

#2. Call in Burmese and N Korean advisors to show them how to properly run a Corrupt Country. STOP, insanely, trying to exist as an OPEN & CLOSED country. a Free and Chained SP/LIT personality Country.

================================================================

All In favor of a CRACKDOWN ON CORRUPTION???? Hands up!

Are you talking about the Joseph Stalin plan. Try to be specific.

[asiawatcher]

Put a broom through the lot and start again - ban every existing politician for 5 years. Sack the Police and give the army its rule. Ban imports of any kind and become self reliant. But destruction of the party from a time way past is insanity by the Courts. How can Democrats be held responsible for their forebears doing? Bloody place is becoming like that litigious land mass of conmen somewhere between the Atlantic and the Pacific. 9,000 page document that is a simple political motived move by the opposition and what a waste of the courts time and the tax payers money. Another of the zillion reason not to vote for anything red.

[SomTumTiger]

Thailand Is Buffeted By A Dark & Swirling Storm

Look folks, if you care about Thailand's future, please look at this Democratic Party Issue in perspective. Yes it is an 'important' crisis of stability, [or is that instability?], however it is only *one of the tremors warning of the splitting and shredding of Thailand. Thailand IS heading for a break up! *[the South, the North, Cambodia, Thaksin's reds, Sondhi's yellows, CORRUPTION, upcoming UNfair elections, !upcoming military power REshuffle!, drought, *<PARTIAL list, attempted assasination of Newin! and MORE]

The Joseph Solution, which has been in the works since 2007, with input from many, many Thais, resolves these Issues and Others. This DP Issue would simply 'evaporate', because there would be no political parties, not to be confused with one party political systems. This would be a no party system similar to that of the most succesful and longest lasting participitory dedmocraticy in the history of the World.

Also, there would be State controlled plebisciting that would ENSURE fair elections among reputable candidates. There would be a Chamber of Sober Second Thought to prevent Tyranny of the Majority. There would be a 'built in' Watch Dog mechanism that smells, hears and sees corruption and bark and BITE offenders. There would be 'democratic' stability, something Thailand has never experienced.

Sondhi AND Thaksin would BOTH endorse The Joseph Plan, [the Agenda which implements TJS, within months, NOT years]. They would BOTH accept their punishment, as would all of the other Red AND Yellow criminal leaders. [While there would be no 'amnesty', per se, tempering and compassion in sentencing could take into account they are products of the broken System not creators of the badly designed system. In a perveted sense, they are also victims of what the squabbling among themselves Khana Ratsadon foisted upon Thailand. In the 1930's, the KR had the Vishnu Given opportunity to work with, instead of against societal elements that would have developed into a Stable, Peaceful and Prosperous System, a veritable Dusit Thani come true. It will NEVER be too late to consider this fool proof approach.]

There are only TWO ways to STOP the all out Civil War Thailand is facing.

#1. Is to adopt the TJP to Implement the TJS. [Throw in European, Phillipine, Japanese, Chinese style mass education in International World language & Thailand would become a G30 to G20 Nation within 5 years. I guarantee it!]

#2. Call in Burmese and N Korean advisors to show them how to properly run a Corrupt Country. STOP, insanely, trying to exist as an OPEN & CLOSED country. a Free and Chained SP/LIT personality Country.

================================================================

All In favor of a CRACKDOWN ON CORRUPTION???? Hands up!

Oh Egg - give it a rest...

[webfact]

Chuan proposes key Democrats be moved to legal team

BANGKOK (NNT) -- Ruling Democrat Chief Advisor, Chuan Leekpai, has proposed the appointment of more people to help the party's legal team in the trial of the controversial 258 million THB donation case and 29 million THB budget misuse case.

Mr Chuan stated that the party had already clarified the 29 million THB budget misuse case; however, the party's legal team has to work harder with the 258 million THB donation case because there are countless documents which must be reviewed.

The chief advisor, also an ex-Prime Minister, recommended that former Party Leader Banyat Bantadtan and Party-list MP Sutasn Ngenmune should be appointed to help the legal team.

Mr Chuan expressed his concerns over the verdict of the cases. He said the court could be accused of conducting double standards if the party escapes party dissolution.

The scandalous cases of the ruling Democrat Party are from allegations of illegally receiving donations of from TPI Polene Plc, and misusing a supporting budget of 29 million THB allocated by the Election Commission.

-- NNT 2010-07-16

[pooket]

Welcome to the revolving door of Thai politics. It's no wonder they're getting their butts kicked by all the other Asian emerging markets (including the Philippines). Wasn't it Winston Churchill that said, "A people get the government they deserve."? They sound like very wise words to me.

BTW, global warming has caused me to get an ingrown toenail, so I'm demanding a snap election and that all Big C's be dissolved. If my demands aren't met by 1PM tomorrow, I'll hold my breath until I turn blue and throw raw eggs at people pulling plastic bottles out of my garbage. I HAVE SPOKEN!

[otherstuff1957]

^ Better choose a color for your party before they're all taken!