I Am A Foreginer And Want To Invest In Real Estate In Thailand

[Khun Jean]

As long as most are concentrated on location,location,location and the location is a 'tourist area' area, i could not be happier.

No competition.

But i give a small hint, would it not be smarter to look at location, location, location in a 'thai worker area'?

[Darrel]

I know people that have been sitting on the sidelines for years and now priced themselves out of the new condo market and are forced to look at used.

Hmm. I've seen most of the new builds in Pattaya/Jomtien and I can honestly say that I dislike nearly all of them. Small rooms, shoddy laminate finishes, kitchens that wont last a year and the ugliest "designer" furniture one could possibly imagine. There are just one or two new buildings that I like.

All the nice units I have seen have been "used" ones that were originally sold as shells, and those are the sorts of places that I would probably buy.

[Hooters]

I know people that have been sitting on the sidelines for years and now priced themselves out of the new condo market and are forced to look at used.

Hmm. I've seen most of the new builds in Pattaya/Jomtien and I can honestly say that I dislike nearly all of them. Small rooms, shoddy laminate finishes, kitchens that wont last a year and the ugliest "designer" furniture one could possibly imagine. There are just one or two new buildings that I like.

All the nice units I have seen have been "used" ones that were originally sold as shells, and those are the sorts of places that I would probably buy.

I agree I wouldnt even call it furniture but some how they manage to find this stuff made from compressed cardboard and call it a table or a door. Most kitchens are okay for the single guy but usless for a family that cooks every night.

The best way to buy new is NOt to value in the furniture or kitchen and toilet that is not designed for 120kg farang.

A mate in my complex ordered his condo as a shell, just concrete no tacky laminex floor and got the best USA appliances inc bathrooms kitchen and real wood floor and factored that into the price.

He has no plans to sell and the place is stunning and everything has a 10 year warranty or more

Edited December 26, 2011 by Hooters

[london]

Apologies for being a late arrival at this post.

Here are my 2 cents worth (in order):

"Purpose of investment is to generate rental income on a short term and sell the porpoerty after it appriciates significantly."

OK, sound basic proposition: buy to rent. UNsound longer term view of assuming that it will appreciate significantly. In this economic climate, it may be many years until you achieve a profit, let alone a "significant appreciation".

Start with the level you are experienced in investing: small or large. But I would err on the side of smallish 1.5 - 3 million baht

For investment, I always look at capital cities.

Nothing is easy to rent out in this economy ANYWHERE on the planet. That said, a Company would only look at a very good condo for their ex-pat staff (certainly 4.5 mil +++).

Buying now, a GROSS yield of around 5%- 6% is achievable.

In Bangkok, I have no experience of commercial property. If you are looking at commercial, then I would suggest that only a strata office unit would suit you and these appear to me to be fraught with downside.

The market is sluggish. It has been for a while. My view is that, depending on the property and price, the timing is not as important as the property IN THIS MARKET.

A foreigner can own a condo 100%, but foreigners can only own 49% of the total project. As owner of a condo, you have full rights to rent.

I would NOT buy new or off the plan.

Now some general comments and questions.

Why are you looking at Thailand in particular?

Have you other investment properties?

Have you invested offshore previously?

These are important considerations.

If I appear negative, I am not. I have condos here in BKK and am not thinking of selling them.

What I am concerned about in your case is unrealistic expectations of capital appreciation or return.

If you wait for others to agree with your ideas, you will never invest in anything.

If you have a sound financial plan and experience, then do it.

Oh, as many here know, I am VERY pro ownership, particularly if you are thinking of living in Thailand.

At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate.

There are many members of Thai Visa who have bought low priced condo's and they are doing very nicely. I buy over the 4 million mark. My condos have ALWAYS been rented.

I would do my own research and NOT look at dealing with agents. Too many hidden agendas. Go to buildings, visit condos, do your research and then make your decision.

Good luck.

[rgs2001uk]

I know people that have been sitting on the sidelines for years and now priced themselves out of the new condo market and are forced to look at used.

Hmm. I've seen most of the new builds in Pattaya/Jomtien and I can honestly say that I dislike nearly all of them. Small rooms, shoddy laminate finishes, kitchens that wont last a year and the ugliest "designer" furniture one could possibly imagine. There are just one or two new buildings that I like.

All the nice units I have seen have been "used" ones that were originally sold as shells, and those are the sorts of places that I would probably buy.

I agree I wouldnt even call it furniture but some how they manage to find this stuff made from compressed cardboard and call it a table or a door. Most kitchens are okay for the single guy but usless for a family that cooks every night.

The best way to buy new is NOt to value in the furniture or kitchen and toilet that is not designed for 120kg farang.

A mate in my complex ordered his condo as a shell, just concrete no tacky laminex floor and got the best USA appliances inc bathrooms kitchen and real wood floor and factored that into the price.

He has no plans to sell and the place is stunning and everything has a 10 year warranty or more

I believe they call it, maximising your return, increasing your profit.

Furnish a unit with 300k of junk/crap and slap an extra 1 million on the price.

Give it 4 or 5 years and wait until the parquet flooring needs replacing, 2 or 3 years if you were unlucky enough to buy one with laminate.

Dont forget to check the bathroom doors/floor, is there a 10 cm drop? Thought not.

Checked the skirting board, flush with the walls or have the gaps started appearing.

Cheapest grade of aluminium window frames, about 5 years if you are lucky, then replace.

With all the beautiful hardwood in this country, why do they fit the cheapest flimsiest crap they can get their hands on to use for external/internal doors?

Still it all looks nice in those glossy brochures.

[Hooters]

,

Edited December 27, 2011 by Hooters

[Darrel]

With all the beautiful hardwood in this country, why do they fit the cheapest flimsiest crap they can get their hands on to use for external/internal doors?

That one has long fascinated me.

Probably for the same reason that people frequent Ikea rather than buy proper furniture, and fit laminate kitchen/bathroom counters rather than granite.

[PattayaPhom]

I think a lot of the larger and well respected developers in Pattaya now use Scorpion doors....hardly flimsey wood....maybe the Thai developers with their 700K places do but what do you expect for that price.

[rgs2001uk]

I think a lot of the larger and well respected developers in Pattaya now use Scorpion doors....hardly flimsey wood....maybe the Thai developers with their 700K places do but what do you expect for that price.

No idea what "Scorpion doors" are.

I do know what mai daeng, mai sak and mai makka doors are, I also know the difference between brass handles, screws,hinges and locks as oppossed to the cheap crap fittings that are used.

The prices of these units are advertised from anywhere from 4.5 to 7 million baht on the same website.

The latest piece of crap creeping in appears to be what are called Granito tiles, love the similarity to granite, may misslead the unwary, but if I was spending 7 million on a condo i would expect a bit more attention to detail.

However as I mentioned earlier, its all about profit.

Another poster mentioned kitchen units, I suppose they look nice in the Index showroom, hardly built to last.

[PattayaPhom]

I think a lot of the larger and well respected developers in Pattaya now use Scorpion doors....hardly flimsey wood....maybe the Thai developers with their 700K places do but what do you expect for that price.

No idea what "Scorpion doors" are.

I do know what mai daeng, mai sak and mai makka doors are, I also know the difference between brass handles, screws,hinges and locks as oppossed to the cheap crap fittings that are used.

The prices of these units are advertised from anywhere from 4.5 to 7 million baht on the same website.

The latest piece of crap creeping in appears to be what are called Granito tiles, love the similarity to granite, may misslead the unwary, but if I was spending 7 million on a condo i would expect a bit more attention to detail.

However as I mentioned earlier, its all about profit.

Another poster mentioned kitchen units, I suppose they look nice in the Index showroom, hardly built to last.

Google them and you may find out......many condos at a fraction of 5 million use them

[Hooters]

"free" furniture of poor quality seem to be in 3 to 7mill bht range. As mentioned what do you expect, mahogany?

Most people rip the floors straight up and put down good tiles.

Somebody suggested they increase the price by 1 mill bht,,, they just could not compete if this was true. dont forget it costs them next to nothing to bulk buy that stuff. Its just like any other industry the sellers are very reluctant to give away furniture but it only takes one to do it and the rest have to play along.

You only need to apply the sqm rule to see if your getting value when comparing in the same area, furniture or not

As i mentioned be for many just say no to the free stuff, saves them hiring a van to throw it out

[Darrel]

No idea what "Scorpion doors" are.

Actually they're rather good and offer excellent sound-proofing. And quite a few builders in Pattaya do indeed use them now, even some relatively cheap buildings.

Of course they are made of steel and so cant be compared to wood of any type.

[PattayaPhom]

No idea what "Scorpion doors" are.

Actually they're rather good and offer excellent sound-proofing. And quite a few builders in Pattaya do indeed use them now, even some relatively cheap buildings.

Of course they are made of steel and so cant be compared to wood of any type.

Its either an Austrian or Swedish guy set uo the company on 3rd Road.....they are very good, 5 deadlocks and the frames are welded into the surrounding brickwork...and suprisingly reasonably priced....and of course developers buying in bulk will get a better price...worth the extra few quid for something secure.

[Dtrai]

London said, "At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate."

But where is the RIGHT LOCATION ?? I am looking to buy in Bangkok and any pointers on location are appreciated.

[phomsanuk]

Are there any Thai REIT's ?

[trogers]

London said, "At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate."

But where is the RIGHT LOCATION ?? I am looking to buy in Bangkok and any pointers on location are appreciated.

Depends on the amount you are prepared to invest, and your target group of potential tenants.

My target group is those falling under middle management rather then those GMs and MDs which are fewer in numbers, nor the less stable expats in supervisory posts as they are more project assigned in their tenure.

One bedroom units (and not those 30+ sqm studio masquerading as 1-bed) generally offer the highest rental yield.

[london]

London said, "At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate."

But where is the RIGHT LOCATION ?? I am looking to buy in Bangkok and any pointers on location are appreciated.

trogers is 100% correct in his answer to my earlier post: it "Depends on the amount you are prepared to invest".

My target market may be different to yours and thus you may wish to invest more, the same, or less than me.

However, remember in ANY property investment, anywhere in the world, there are only 3 rules to remember: Location. Location. Location.

I personally prefer views, easy access to transport and ready access to shops. Now , for some, this may mean Sukhumvit, others Silom, others around Wireless Road, and others around the river.

As an idea for you to think about: always look where the 5 star International Hotels are located. They are more likely to go for the best locations.

Once you've pinpointed your area, then buy the best you can with the money you have. DON'T be greedy. Be realistic. Buy the building, not just the condo itself.

Then, always be prepared to spend money to maintain it. That will ensure good tenants.

Edited December 30, 2011 by london

[Thighlander]

I grossed 30.03% on a 1 br townhouse in Phoenix Arizona this year....about 15% after expenses. Did not receive 1 single phone call. Rock solid titles in America. Canadians have been investing big time. I owned a house in Hang DOng with a thai lawyer--it was a success but never again. I will never skirt the law again--if they don't want foreigners to own--that's their problem. I do like this condo at the Chiangrai condotel for 415,000....but would only return 5%. Check CD rates in Cambodia at ANZ or others that pay more. No american has lost money in a Mexican bank in 75 years....also worth a look.

[LeighAdkins]

London said, "At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate."

But where is the RIGHT LOCATION ?? I am looking to buy in Bangkok and any pointers on location are appreciated.

trogers is 100% correct in his answer to my earlier post: it "Depends on the amount you are prepared to invest".

My target market may be different to yours and thus you may wish to invest more, the same, or less than me.

However, remember in ANY property investment, anywhere in the world, there are only 3 rules to remember: Location. Location. Location.

I personally prefer views, easy access to transport and ready access to shops. Now , for some, this may mean Sukhumvit, others Silom, others around Wireless Road, and others around the river.

As an idea for you to think about: always look where the 5 star International Hotels are located. They are more likely to go for the best locations.

Once you've pinpointed your area, then buy the best you can with the money you have. DON'T be greedy. Be realistic. Buy the building, not just the condo itself.

Then, always be prepared to spend money to maintain it. That will ensure good tenants.

london,

Excellent unbiased advice. As a newbie here, shortly to invest in the area, thankyou very much.

[meatboy]

London said, "At present, there is definitely an over supply of condos in BKK, BUT NOT an oversupply of condos in the RIGHT LOCATION. Thats where you need to concentrate."

But where is the RIGHT LOCATION ?? I am looking to buy in Bangkok and any pointers on location are appreciated.

trogers is 100% correct in his answer to my earlier post: it "Depends on the amount you are prepared to invest".

My target market may be different to yours and thus you may wish to invest more, the same, or less than me.

However, remember in ANY property investment, anywhere in the world, there are only 3 rules to remember: Location. Location. Location.

I personally prefer views, easy access to transport and ready access to shops. Now , for some, this may mean Sukhumvit, others Silom, others around Wireless Road, and others around the river.

As an idea for you to think about: always look where the 5 star International Hotels are located. They are more likely to go for the best locations.

Once you've pinpointed your area, then buy the best you can with the money you have. DON'T be greedy. Be realistic. Buy the building, not just the condo itself.

Then, always be prepared to spend money to maintain it. That will ensure good tenants.

london,

Excellent unbiased advice. As a newbie here, shortly to invest in the area, thankyou very much.

tharit pengdit and his deputy narat sawettanan should be able to advise you.

[london]

LeighAdkins

My pleasure.

Take your time. In this market, there is no need to rush.

Buy the best you can.

Remember too that Thailand is a lifestyle destination.

Good luck.

[letitbe]

weve done it for 15 years here (AND OVER 35 YEARS IN USA AND UK) right place rental income is great 8-10% yield but weve never seen much if any capital appreciation. Avoid new projects like plague IMO after 2-3 years most have already fallen around 30% + in value. Keep to good tidy well maintained blocks of 15+ years and check carefully funds in kitty. Many thais simply never pay their maintenance fees and so blocks have no proper funds for keeping block in good order. Domnt expect same as you would expect in USA UK or europe there are no proper brokers here in our experience. On other hand while their has been hardly any appreciation with strong Thai baht in recent years and 8-10% yield weve done very well.

[hyperboyz9]

Raimonland's projects are my favorite one. The developer 's famous about product quality and reliable. I bough one from thier new project, Unixx South Pattaya, in Pattaya, the price is reasonable and it's good for investing in the future due to Pattaya is the tour city and a lot of foreigners in the high season, not far from the airport. I plan to buy one more soon.