Experts Warn Of Thai Govt 'Intimidation' Of Internet Users

[webfact]

SYMPOSIUM

Experts warn of govt "intimidation" of Internet users

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

The government's Internet censorship road is a slippery one and people should not leave officials to do what they want, as they may belatedly discover them trying to "censor everything we want to talk about," warned executive director of Southeast Asian Press Alliance (Seapa) Roby Alampay.

BANGKOK: -- Speaking at a symposium to mark the third anniversary of the Computer Crime Act, Alampay said respect for other people's opinions should be taught at grade school level instead of having the government decide what to censor.

"I would not leave the question of censorship to government," he said, adding the Thai government has been using the law to "intimidate" those engaging in sensitive political discussion - especially on the issue of the monarchy institution. People are being made to recognise that visiting some websites or chatrooms is "at [their] own risk."

The Internet is where "the government sets the limits on what people can talk about," argued Alampay. But the shutting down of some websites might lead to the radicalisation of political posters. Some may simply give up, but others will be forced to migrate elsewhere online or further underground.

A clear example is the decision by non-profit prachatai.com on-line newspaper to close its political web board by the end of this month, after its board manager Chiranuch Premchaiporn was charged under computer crime law for allegedly allowing 10 different postings of material deemed as lese majeste. She faces a potential 50 year maximum prison term as a result.

An individual who posted a message was also charged and Chiranuch, who spoke at the symposium yesterday, said the decision to shut down the web board came after staff at prachatai.com concluded they could not protect posters any more.

"Since we can't pass on the responsibility to anyone else we decided to shut it down because we do not want to pretend freedom of expression exists now. So we decided to announce there is no freedom of expression on such a forum," Chiranuch told the gathering.

She warned however more secretive and underground splinter web boards could result and "may not be good for democracy."

The Computer Crime Act is the single most controversial piece of legislation affecting freedom of expression since its enforcement in July 2007, wrote Sinfah Tunsawawuth and Toby Mendel in a paper analysing the law. It was presented by Sinfah, an independent media lawyer.

The paper stated that lese majeste has been "the single offence most frequently applied by the Thai authorities against Internet users and ISPs under the Computer Crime Act". Sinfah acknowledged yesterday however that the current emergency decree imposed by the government in Bangkok and 15 other provinces for the past three months had led to censorship that makes the computer crime law pale by comparison.

"They don't need a computer crime act now," Sinfah said.

Independent academic Sarinee Achawanantakul said Thai society should weigh the cost of growing censorship which she believes carries a high cost to society.

"In the case of prachatai.com, the situation won't be helpful [to society]... If [the government] says they do not want political division they should ask how censorship will really help. Will it in fact lead to making more people angry and hateful?"

The symposium was organised by Seapa, Netizen Group and the Campaign for Popular Media Reform and supported by the Heinrich Boll Foundation and the Media Legal Defense Initiative.

-- The Nation 2010-07-22

[dom samui]

Self-censor won already...look

[RKASA]

This act was written on yellow paper and is full of a violations of basic Human freedoms. I guess I am in deep kem che for saying that, the DSI is on the way. Not to worry - I have no 5 million in gems to account for, but I would be better off if I had friends at TPI. The biggest problem with this type act is the people that enforce it and how, when and why they choose to do so - which is why they should not be given tools or shape objects to play with ether.

[ThaksinKharma]

A clear example is the decision by non-profit prachatai.com on-line newspaper to close its political web board by the end of this month, after its board manager Chiranuch Premchaiporn was charged under computer crime law for allegedly allowing 10 different postings of material deemed as lese majeste. She faces a potential 50 year maximum prison term as a result.

An individual who posted a message was also charged and Chiranuch, who spoke at the symposium yesterday, said the decision to shut down the web board came after staff at prachatai.com concluded they could not protect posters any more.

The prachatai forum has no obligation to protect those that are breaking the law of this land. It's no different than if they were trying to protect people who were making drug deals online through their forum. Whether one agrees with it or not, LM is a criminal act, as is drug dealing.

prachatai's problem is inadequate moderation of the forum's content because if they had had that in the beginning, they wouldn't be facing the problems they are having now. They abrogated their responsibilities of running a forum within the boundaries of the law and now they face the consequences.

If they disagreed with the law, they can pursue the existing legal channels to have it changed. Until such time as it is changed, if they choose to flaunt the law, then there are repercussions for that.

Still, in the end, the decision to close that forum was one they made on their own.

[JorakaeNoi]

All this censorship is an act of desperation and won't achieve anything in the long run. As prachatai has shown recently, you can shut a website down but then it can just spring up somewhere new in no time at all. This computer crime act needs to be got rid of.

[ukfool]

All this censorship is an act of desperation and won't achieve anything in the long run. As prachatai has shown recently, you can shut a website down but then it can just spring up somewhere new in no time at all. This computer crime act needs to be got rid of.

I really think that surpressing peoples opinions is a breach of human rights - yet, they are doing the exact same thing by deeming people who express their opinion are wrong ? Why can they do so and not others ?

Was Thailand really at the back of the queue when god handed out intelligence ?

[ThaksinKharma]

All this censorship is an act of desperation and won't achieve anything in the long run. As prachatai has shown recently, you can shut a website down but then it can just spring up somewhere new in no time at all.

Just to reiterate, prachatai was not "shut down." The owners closed it on their own volition.

[JorakaeNoi]

Don't know about intelligence but it was at the back of the queue for respect for differing opinions and they only got the few scraps at the end of the barrel.

[JorakaeNoi]

I wasn't talking about the webboard but the website in general, which has been repeatedly blocked by the government everytime they set up a new internet address. As for the webboard, yes I knew that was their decision but that wasn't what I was talking about.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Just to reiterate, prachatai was not "shut down." The owners closed it on their own volition.

You're splitting hairs in a very obscure and non-intelligent manner.

They closed it correct. The alternative was endless moderating of political debate. I take your point about respecting the laws of the land [as they exist on any given day and subject to rapid change], but it's a political forum.

The prachatai forum has no obligation to protect those that are breaking the law of this land. It's no different than if they were trying to protect people who were making drug deals online through their forum.

You're framing the issue in a way that really smacks of transparent spin. Why do you believe that lack of moderation is tantamount to "protection"? Are they hiding the identity of the posters from the government? Refusing to cooperate with police investigations?

It's the reverse situation. They are being forced to censor political discussion. Or close. Those are their two options. It's a political forum. Are you for real?

--------

I'm actually quite a fan of the Thai King and I believe the vast majority of the critics of lese majeste simply don't understand how complex the issue really is. Or they have very unfair [if somewhat understandable] preconceived misperceptions about the Thai monarchy's role in domestic politics. And I've written published articles slamming the Western media for their grotesque bias in their 'reporting' of the recent tragic conflicts.

But free speech is free speech. Once you give people [we are petty, by nature] powers like that to wield...slopes simply don't get more slippery than that waterfall.

There is rare wisdom already posted in this thread.

The biggest problem with this type act is the people that enforce it and how, when and why they choose to do so - which is why they should not be given tools or shape objects to play with ether.

[robanywhere]

i've lived and worked in China and the FSU, and I have never felt more censorship and fear of the consequences of free thought and speech as I have in my four years of living in Thailand. This country has been losing its democracy ever since the coup, as various cyber laws, martial laws, LM laws, media repression actions are used as political tools.

Thailand may still be an enjoyable place to visit (a la Travel and Leisure magazine's latest poll), but it is certainly losing its appeal as a place to reside.

[TheBarbarian]

No news here. The entire world knows that thailand is a police state only rivaled by China, Iran, North Korea or Burma. That is why so many coups are designed for the rich. But don't worry every day smarter people are born in the middle of poor villages who live longer and have more futire than the Suthep's , Anupong's and Sothi's of this world.

[Alwaysright]

Self-censor won already...look

Thai Visa is the worst:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

[zakk9]

Sometimes, this country seems closer to Myanmar than what is obvious from looking at the map.

[Piengrudee]

We cannot expect 100% freedom in everything in life. Sometime it is OK to have a little control on us.

[jayboy]

All this censorship is an act of desperation and won't achieve anything in the long run. As prachatai has shown recently, you can shut a website down but then it can just spring up somewhere new in no time at all.

Just to reiterate, prachatai was not "shut down." The owners closed it on their own volition.

Just as the AOT closed down the airport.It had nothing to do with the yellow criminals occupying it.

[anotheruser]

Just to reiterate, prachatai was not "shut down." The owners closed it on their own volition.

You're splitting hairs in a very obscure and non-intelligent manner.

They closed it correct. The alternative was endless moderating of political debate. I take your point about respecting the laws of the land [as they exist on any given day and subject to rapid change], but it's a political forum.

The prachatai forum has no obligation to protect those that are breaking the law of this land. It's no different than if they were trying to protect people who were making drug deals online through their forum.

You're framing the issue in a way that really smacks of transparent spin. Why do you believe that lack of moderation is tantamount to "protection"? Are they hiding the identity of the posters from the government? Refusing to cooperate with police investigations?

It's the reverse situation. They are being forced to censor political discussion. Or close. Those are their two options. It's a political forum. Are you for real?

--------

I'm actually quite a fan of the Thai King and I believe the vast majority of the critics of lese majeste simply don't understand how complex the issue really is. Or they have very unfair [if somewhat understandable] preconceived misperceptions about the Thai monarchy's role in domestic politics. And I've written published articles slamming the Western media for their grotesque bias in their 'reporting' of the recent tragic conflicts.

But free speech is free speech. Once you give people [we are petty, by nature] powers like that to wield...slopes simply don't get more slippery than that waterfall.

There is rare wisdom already posted in this thread.

The biggest problem with this type act is the people that enforce it and how, when and why they choose to do so - which is why they should not be given tools or shape objects to play with ether.

Discussing this is not allowed so give it a rest, We can not debate you even if we wanted to.

[ThaksinKharma]

You're splitting hairs in a very obscure and non-intelligent manner.

Sorry if you feel being accurate is splitting hairs AND stupid (aka "non-intelligent").

They closed it correct. The alternative was endless moderating of political debate. I take your point about respecting the laws of the land [as they exist on any given day and subject to rapid change], but it's a political forum.

"endless moderating" is part and parcel with running a forum (same as this forum does) on a daily basis. If they didn't want to moderate it properly, as evidenced by allowing LM posts to remain online, then they shouldn't be running a forum. The TV forum exists because it does moderate out illegal discussions, in the multitude of forms that it can involve, including LM.

Being a "political forum" does not exclude the responsibility for proper moderation, same as this forum.

quote ThaksinKharma= The prachatai forum has no obligation to protect those that are breaking the law of this land. It's no different than if they were trying to protect people who were making drug deals online through their forum.

unquote.

You're framing the issue in a way that really smacks of transparent spin. Why do you believe that lack of moderation is tantamount to "protection"? Are they hiding the identity of the posters from the government? Refusing to cooperate with police investigations?

No spin intended. Just using an illegal action (drug dealing) to exemplify another illegal action (LM). Any other illegal act could have also been used. As for protecting their users, it's not precisely given in the article what pratchatai meant by that, but I was presuming they meant to shield their users from being held accountable for their illegal actions (LM posts).

It's the reverse situation. They are being forced to censor political discussion. Or close

No, they were being forced to moderate illegal actions (LM posts) and then were held accountable when they failed to do so. The owner was not arrested for allowing political discussion. She was arrested for allowing illegal actions (LM posts) to stand un-moderated.

[chrisyork]

Thai society has always accepted a degree of control that would be unthinkable in the West. It is still within living memory that the police would prevent villagers from leaving their home villages! It is entirely natural that Thailand should expect to be able to control web content. It is a sobering revelation to discover that the internationalised nature of the media and the web makes this extremely difficult. I believe this realisation will have really taken hold from the reporting of the Bangkok red protests. "Keeping mum" about all the issues involved and failing to assist the media with their reporting merely lead to grossly innacurate portrayals of Thailand to the frustration of all of us who love this country.

I share everyone's frustration at web censorship, I've even had a webforum I help run for the owners of a particular model of motor car blocked! But, just as free movement is now an established fact after generations of restriction, so too will freedom of expression become so. It just may take a little longer than impatient farangs are used to! When I see my 11 year olds in rural Thailand glued to the web it is clear that free access to information will become a defacto fact in less than a generation. The law will no doubt take longer to catch up, but Thailand is expert in the ignoring of inconvenient laws.

Chris

[jayboy]

"endless moderating" is part and parcel with running a forum (same as this forum does) on a daily basis. If they didn't want to moderate it properly, as evidenced by allowing LM posts to remain online, then they shouldn't be running a forum. The TV forum exists because it does moderate out illegal discussions, in the multitude of forms that it can involve, including LM.

Being a "political forum" does not exclude the responsibility for proper moderation, same as this forum.

It's slightly bizarre that the sage of Sriracha has the chutzpah to invoke forum rules.

Anyway ignore him.The problem at Prachatai was a cause of concern to many serious people including Khun Abhisit.

[peterpop]

A clear example is the decision by non-profit prachatai.com on-line newspaper to close its political web board by the end of this month, after its board manager Chiranuch Premchaiporn was charged under computer crime law for allegedly allowing 10 different postings of material deemed as lese majeste. She faces a potential 50 year maximum prison term as a result.

An individual who posted a message was also charged and Chiranuch, who spoke at the symposium yesterday, said the decision to shut down the web board came after staff at prachatai.com concluded they could not protect posters any more.

The prachatai forum has no obligation to protect those that are breaking the law of this land. It's no different than if they were trying to protect people who were making drug deals online through their forum. Whether one agrees with it or not, LM is a criminal act, as is drug dealing.

prachatai's problem is inadequate moderation of the forum's content because if they had had that in the beginning, they wouldn't be facing the problems they are having now. They abrogated their responsibilities of running a forum within the boundaries of the law and now they face the consequences.

If they disagreed with the law, they can pursue the existing legal channels to have it changed. Until such time as it is changed, if they choose to flaunt the law, then there are repercussions for that.

Still, in the end, the decision to close that forum was one they made on their own.

Whose payroll are you on? We all know the law, it is the sense of the law that is being referred to here and freedom of the press is a universall goal intrinsic to all basic freedoms. Without doubt Thailand's press is less free than a few months ago at a time when freedom of opinion is being flaunted by the present regime.

[ThaksinKharma]

The problem at Prachatai was a cause of concern to many serious people including Khun Abhisit.

No one, including myself, is saying that the problem at pratchatai is not of any concern, but it was avoidable.

[citizen33]

On 'illegal actions', one might observe that law is a dynamic and contested domain. What for example is the position when new laws are introduced by a military junta that violated and then abolished the previous constitution? And what happens when the domestic law of the day seems to be in conflict with international treaties to which a country is a signatory? International lawyers may not think the issues are quite as straightforward as our learned friend above does.

Edited July 22, 2010 by citizen33

[zthyadat]

We cannot expect 100% freedom in everything in life. Sometime it is OK to have a little control on us.

What a very Confucian line of thought... But not all of us feel the need or desire for a big daddy to tell us what to do and to look after us throughout our entire lives... (It's interesting to consider that this line of thought has much to do with the popularity of people like Thaksin.)

So you are willing to relinquish "little control" over your own life to someone else? Who? Someone you believe to be wiser than yourself? Someone you trust - like a politician?

In a true democracy we theoretically control each other. Again, in theory, the representatives are selected by the people and are supposed to act on the people's will - therefore we govern each other through our exchangeable representatives. (This is an ideal of course, and in practice rarely works out this way.)

However, the conception of democracy in Thailand and in many other Asian countries appears to be that you vote in a "strong man" (who eventually becomes a "strongman"), who will take a firm hand in running the country, like a big daddy looking after his millions of children - and of course since he is the daddy, he is expected to exert discipline, but also show benevolence. In exchange for all this "hard work and sacrifice", Daddy gets the most comfy chair and is also not to be questioned. The only democratic aspect is that the people get to choose who gets to be Big Daddy - though of course, once chosen and handed so much blind obeisance, they can be tough to get rid of.

[ThaksinKharma]

Whose payroll are you on?

One doesn't have to be on anyone's payroll to know that illegal acts have repercussions.

We all know the law

Knowing the law is different than complying with the law.

it is the sense of the law that is being referred to here and freedom of the press is a universall goal intrinsic to all basic freedoms. Without doubt Thailand's press is less free than a few months ago

The Thai press is just as accountable under the LM laws as internet forums such as prachatai and TV are.

Whether one agrees with the LM laws or not, all are expected to comply with them and when an entity such as the prachatai forum fails that, that they are held accountable for that breach should not come as a surprise. Again, one's own personal feelings, including mine, about the appropriateness of LM laws isn't at issue. It's whether the the laws were broken or not and for that a court will determine if they were or not.

If the country wishes to change those laws, there are legal avenues to pursue that desire.

In other words, I'm not saying the law is right or wrong, but simply that that is the law of this country as it stands now and that if people choose to break that law in the interim, then there are repercussions for doing so, the same as any other law-breaking action.

Edited July 22, 2010 by ThaksinKharma

[Robby nz]

Well I dont feel intimidated, cant see any reason to be.

Wonder why some people live in this country, or maybe they dont, just complain from afar, the ammount of whinging and whining on this forum is had to believe.

Sure this countries not perfect but where is? To me Thailand is a great place to live even with its faults.

There are posters on this forum who repeatedly call the Govt and PM murderers, liers corrupt and much more and they get away with it.

I suspect in many countries some of these posts would get someone locked up.

Give it a go against Pres O in the US and see if it gets you a holiday in Cuba.

[JorakaeNoi]

Well, Khun Chiranuch now faces 50 years in jail for this, hardly fair and proportional. Especially as no attempt was made to contact prachatai to remove such comments. Incidentally, the PM had said that he was concerned about the case and would deal with it. No such thing has happened.

[ThaksinKharma]

no attempt was made to contact prachatai to remove such comments.

Wouldn't think that was necessary, as afterall...

We all know the law

[JorakaeNoi]

People never feel intimidated as long as they toe the party line and don't rock the boat. Leave the status quo as it is and everything will be fine.

[truthfulfox]

Self-censor won already...look

Thai Visa is the worst:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

OHHHHHHHH yessssssssssssss