El Shadai Orphanage

[harrry]

Several of the sites indicate that not all of the children are orphans.

Edited July 27, 2010 by harrry

[canuckamuck]

Those of you who are becoming upset over this really need to go and see for yourselves. If you were not aware There are literally thousands of abandoned and orphan kids in the villages of Thailand. The reasons for such are multiple; such as car accidents, children whose parents are married but not to each other, illnesses such as HIV, and unwanted teen pregnancies. Yes the majority of times extended families do step in, but there are tons who fall through the cracks and Thailand is not exactly the pinnacle of social welfare.

Many of these kids end up in horrendous and abusive situations, and some are even left to die in hills. Yes it would be good if the government was looking out for these kids, but we all know that hill tribe kids are a low priority in this nation.

So some Christians are actually doing something about it. Is that a bad thing to give a kid a home and some rice to eat. And obviously this is coming at a great sacrifice because they are not rich people. Give your head a shake and think about how you can help the situation instead of just making destructive comments.

[jubby]

Well said canuckamuck. I've met many Christains here in Chiang Rai. Chiang Rai seems awash with Christains. They all seem to want to do good in their own way, some expect nothing in return and some expect the receiver of the goodwill to convert or something. Brainwashing, I'm not sure. Better that than the alternative.

[sceadugenga]

I don't consider a single destructive comment has been made; some of us are just curious about the orphanage, or foster home as it seems to be, and how it works.

[dindong]

Hi 54hudson262 and welcome to Thai Visa's Chiang Rai forum.

Many of the regular posters on this forum have been living in Chiang rai for many years, myself about 10 years and are fairly familiar with Chiang Rai and its surrounding areas. I confess to have never heard of this "orphanage" El Shaddai or El Shadai until a few days ago and on researching I found the many websites posting about it.

There does seem to be a lot of secrecy about it and this leads myself and others wondering, is it a scam or not.

Chiang Rai does seem to be filled with so called do-gooders these days" with bible thumping, brain washing ideas on how to save " aids infected, prostitute children from the jungles of Chiang Rai.

They are activily harvested children for their dormitories and spilling out religious tripe and cashing in on the kind heartiness of others.

Most of the children come from Buddhists homes and should be brought up as such, why not give them the necessities of life without the religious tripe.

Unfortunitly El Shadai seems to fit the model exactly and I am very dubious about it. If you can show otherwise, I'm sure there are many members in Chiang Rai forum that will be glad to help.

A good start would be the location, or is that a secret?

Edited July 27, 2010 by dindong

[charlie1968]

Hi 54hudson262 and welcome to Thai Visa's Chiang Rai forum.

Many of the regular posters on this forum have been living in Chiang rai for many years, myself about 10 years and are fairly familiar with Chiang Rai and its surrounding areas. I confess to have never heard of this "orphanage" El Shaddai or El Shadai until a few days ago and on researching I found the many websites posting about it.

There does seem to be a lot of secrecy about it and this leads myself and others wondering, is it a scam or not.

Chiang Rai does seem to be filled with so called do-gooders these days" with bible thumping, brain washing ideas on how to save " aids infected, prostitute children from the jungles of Chiang Rai.

They are activily harvested children for their dormitories and spilling out religious tripe and cashing in on the kind heartiness of others.

Most of the children come from Buddhists homes and should be brought up as such, why not give them the necessities of life without the religious tripe.

Unfortunitly El Shadai seems to fit the model exactly and I am very dubious about it. If you can show otherwise, I'm sure there are many members in Chiang Rai forum that will be glad to help.

A good start would be the location, or is that a secret?

GOOD POST

[sceadugenga]

Interesting to see that any donations through that website have to go to Boulder, Colorado.

Edited July 28, 2010 by sceadugenga

[skybluestu]

Just had a look at the website of this orphange and, although I don't agree with missionaries who come here solely for the purpose of converting buddhists to christianity, it looks like this is one of the more genuine ones where the kids involved are being given the love and care they deserve. Obviously we don't know the background behind each kid that is there but it does seem like they are much better off there than any other option available to them and, with or without religion being involved, the welfare of the kids should be the main priority.

Interesting point that Sceadugenga made, I wonder what % of the donations actually make it to the folk who run the orphange? There are a lot of 'missionaries' now who lead very good lives due to the donations that they or their foundation receive, often with very little $ actually going to the people it is intended for.

[sceadugenga]

The kids are not ethnic Thais according to the website, which would explain the lack of government funding.

[jubby]

True, and I suspect the second points true also. I would like to take a look sometime.

As I've said before, I've met lots of Christains here with foundations and all. The intention is to do 'Gods' work I suppose. I haven't met a lot of Buddists who do the same, maybe they are out there but I do suspect they are too busy making merit (looking after themselves for next time around) at the temple

This was a reply to skyb's post by the way.

Doesn't anyone want to contribute to any of our other threads !?

Edited July 28, 2010 by jubby

[bifftastic]

Interesting to see that any donations through that website have to go to Boulder, Colorado.

from looking at the website, it appears that the people raising money for the orphanage come from Colorado, so that's probably why.

[Lite Beer]

An inflammatory post containing profanities has been deleted. Together with the reply to it.

[Fairgo]

Interesting to see that any donations through that website have to go to Boulder, Colorado.

from looking at the website, it appears that the people raising money for the orphanage come from Colorado, so that's probably why.

That is exactly true. That particular web site was set up by a Trip Advisor member who lives in Colorado and went to the orphanage with a group of friends in April. They went to do some painting on the building and to buy a fridge for the family. They set that up to raise money to take over from their family and friends. All of the money they raised and a significant donation from their own pockets all went to the orphanage. They were just a group of travelers raising funds. She will be going back later in the year and is probably still trying to raise some cash to take. That's it.

[bifftastic]

Just had a look at the website of this orphange and, although I don't agree with missionaries who come here solely for the purpose of converting buddhists to christianity, it looks like this is one of the more genuine ones where the kids involved are being given the love and care they deserve. Obviously we don't know the background behind each kid that is there but it does seem like they are much better off there than any other option available to them and, with or without religion being involved, the welfare of the kids should be the main priority.

Interesting point that Sceadugenga made, I wonder what % of the donations actually make it to the folk who run the orphange? There are a lot of 'missionaries' now who lead very good lives due to the donations that they or their foundation receive, often with very little $ actually going to the people it is intended for.

whilst that is, undoubtedly, true I read this on the website;

"...We have all talked about the amazing amount we accomplished in the short time we were at the orphanage and what we will do to continue to assist in the survival of these caring, joyful and delightful children. We know that all this was possible as the result of the wonderful donations made by so many of you. Be gratified to know that every cent you donated was used at the orphanage and not a penny was used for any sort of administrative expense."

I'm often worried by the term 'missionary' but, it seems these people are genuinely moved to help the children in this orphanage. I know anyone can write anything on a website, but, seeing as lots of you are actually in the area, you could check it out for yourselves :jap:

They seem, from what is written there, genuinely moved by what they have seen and even talked of exploring the possibility of adopting some of the children themselves. This proved to be impossible due to the 'stateless' nature of their hilltribe background, no birth certificate, etc. Some $225 was raised by an adopted Asian girl in their home town who made and sold chocolates in church after she heard about these kids.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm the last person to stand up for missionaries and I'm sure there are some evangelistic fire and brimstone type people crashing around the world blathering on about all kinds of nonsense, but these folks didn't mention religion at all in their blog, although it may well be that that inspires them to do these things.

They just seem to have found people who need help and helped them. Along the way they have become emotionally involved too, as anyone with any kind of empathy would when brought into contact with such a situation.

So, and I say this to myself first, let's not be too quick to judge them?

Edited July 28, 2010 by bifftastic

[sceadugenga]

True, and I suspect the second points true also. I would like to take a look sometime.

As I've said before, I've met lots of Christains here with foundations and all. The intention is to do 'Gods' work I suppose. I haven't met a lot of Buddists who do the same, maybe they are out there but I do suspect they are too busy making merit (looking after themselves for next time around) at the temple

This was a reply to skyb's post by the way.

Doesn't anyone want to contribute to any of our other threads !?

There are plenty of Buddhist charities, they seem to be ignored by a lot of farangs who prefer to see Asians as selfish and self centred.

The Tzu Chi Foundation was founded in 1966 by a 30 year-old female monk called Dharma Master Cheng Yen. It runs international emergency relief operations, longer term aid programmes, as well as recycling centres, a TV and radio station and magazines within Taiwan.

It has very few paid staff, but thousands of volunteers give some, or all, of their time each week. They are expected to pay all their own expenses.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/30/tzu_chi_foundation/

http://www.google.com/Top/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Buddhism/Engaged_Buddhism/Organizations/

[jubby]

Thanks for that Scea. I did sort of expect you to come up with something as you undoubtedly do.

maybe I'm one of those farangs, I tend to take things as I see it, my village doesn't help me see it the way it is sometimes.

I'm no Christain, I suppose I'm not mainstream anything. I did have a big downer on bhuddism last week , and I'm probably still dubious after the local safron maffia got fed chicken drumsticks for breakfast and I got fed Pak. Vegetables of somesort . Sh*t, I worked for those chicken legs, although it was sometime ago.

[jingjoe]

There are plenty of Buddhist charities

..and a Buddhist charity would be a better option for helping this small group of kids in need because?

Hill tribe people are often stateless - read, no funding or governmental assistance.

Wherever did you get the idea that Hill tribe people are Buddhists?

[bifftastic]

There are plenty of Buddhist charities

..and a Buddhist charity would be a better option for helping this small group of kids in need because?

Hill tribe people are often stateless - read, no funding or governmental assistance.

Wherever did you get the idea that Hill tribe people are Buddhists?

He didn't, he was responding to a post which cast some doubt on the charitable nature of the buddhist system.

I reckon you need to move your bed away from the wall mate.

[jubby]

There are plenty of Buddhist charities

..and a Buddhist charity would be a better option for helping this small group of kids in need because?

Hill tribe people are often stateless - read, no funding or governmental assistance.

Wherever did you get the idea that Hill tribe people are Buddhists?

Am I missing something here !? Surely Bhudhist Charities can help non bhudhist causes. Charities charity right !?

Some Hill Tribe are Bhudhist by the way.

Scea's going to have to do better than that though. His example was Bhudihist (how do you spell that word) from Taiwan or something. I bet they don't each my Chicken Legs. Thai bhudhism does seem to have some unique traits IMNSHO

[jingjoe]

I'm sure he appreciates you answering for him and flaming me in the process...

[jubby]

I'm sure he appreciates you answering for him and flaming me in the process...

Lets not flame anyone Guys, This thread will disapear for sure. The Mods are up early this morning

Biff needs to spend 15 years in that Village and see where he stands on the Bhuddism thing. Suspect he can't wait for the experience.

Scea will probably be back shortly. he's good at it.

[kandahar]

The questions that dindong and others raise are good. There are enough organizations in this world that are known for "harvesting kids". The directors won't let anyone near their operations and accept "money only" for contributions. If you want to donate food, clothing, housing or appliances, you aren't welcome at some of them. So, nothing wrong with getting the facts instead of buying into a scam or just accepting it at face value. So, for those of you who have posted with knowledge of this particular place: Where exactly is the place? Give the directions so people can go see for themselves. If you don't have the directions, then you really don't know much about the subject first-hand at all. And if you do, then a much better form of contribution would have been for you to give the location, with directions and encourage others to go there and see for themselves, increasing the chances of the place getting better support. So, at this point, there is some skepticism and rightly so. What can any of you offer to put it to rest? Assaults and insults don't contribute anything.

I don't need the directions but others may. I have never heard of this place but I can find the place by myself. But if you know where it is, place it on the pinned Google map in our pinned topics list. If it checks out, it will probably stay there for others to reference. If it doesn't check out, it will probably disappear.

Sounds like this might be a good destination for a CR Motorcycle Meet and Greet ride in the future. Not the initial one, of course. But maybe the second one. Garry, VF, what do you think?

The local Thai motorcycle clubs do a lot of support for these types of operations. They send some scouts to check it out, find out what is needed and then they make a weekend or more of it, adding living quarters or improvements in whatever ways they can. I'll ask their members what they know of this place.

At least one person on here has said that he contributed appliances and such directly. Good on him and his group.

Religion and these kids. Wow. Big topic. But in a nutshell, any help the kids get is welcome help. They can certainly decide for themselves, as they come of age, which way they want to go. I know lots of folks that got plenty of direction growing up and as they became adults, they made intelligent decisions about whether or not that way of life was for them.

Ethnic Thai or not? Doesn't matter. If someone chooses to raise them without the benefit of government support and interference and can make a go of it, good for them. Each kid only knows his/her life and personal circumstances. He/She doesn't know or care where they fit into the big picture. Later, it may become important. Right now, they just need to be kids.

Buddhist charities. I couldn't say how much good they do world-wide. I can say this. We often have a young monk at our house. He is about 10 or 12 years old. He loves to visit with my mother-in-law. She and his mother were close friends. His mother died about two years ago. The local temple took the kid in, and he is leading the life of a young monk, getting an education, food, shelter, guidance and other good things. He had no one else to turn to. I am told that almost all, if not all, of the temples do the same thing. So, even if they aren't going around the world saving children, they are doing a lot in their own areas. Also, keep in mind that Buddhists are more or less from less affluent countries and therefore, find it harder to have the capital to go to foreign lands and do good. Even then, I'm sure that some of them accomplish that mission.

Christians: Lots of good work, some bad work sometimes, too. No need to throw out the whole barrel because of a bad apple. I personally know of lots of good that has been accomplished and quite a bit of bad as well. I wouldn't throw away the good just to make sure that no bad occurs. The good far outweighs the bad.

Thanks to moderator Lite Beer for getting involved here and thanks to whoever hit the "report" button that caused him to get involved.

So, if anyone is up to a ride this weekend, let me know. We'll take a bit of fresh fruit and some smiles to the place and say "hello". If anyone wants to go with me before that, let me know. I'll tell the wife I have important business to take care of during the week and she will let me take a break from this work at the house. She will go as well. She is Thai and she loves kids. Anyway, it looks like I have a small trip in store this weekend or very soon. I'll post here with what I find unless someone else goes first and gives us a good report. I'll also put it on the map after I find it.

[sceadugenga]

All the flaming here was done by jingjoe, now conveniently removed.

I live among hillstribe people and am fully aware that few are them are Buddhists. My non-Thai neighbours are predominantly Christian or animist.

I've found that the Thai Buddhists here are tolerant of minorities and the monks are generally fine people.

I find it difficult to condemn them for smoking and buying the occasional lottery ticket when they are compared to some of the clergy of other religions.

I've never at any stage suggested the children referred to here were at risk or undeserving of charity. I don't doubt that the Christians are making a better life for the majority of them.

[kandahar]

All the flaming here was done by jingjoe, now conveniently removed.

I live among hillstribe people and am fully aware that few are them are Buddhists. My non-Thai neighbours are predominantly Christian or animist.

I've found that the Thai Buddhists here are tolerant of minorities and the monks are generally fine people.

I find it difficult to condemn them for smoking and buying the occasional lottery ticket when they are compared to some of the clergy of other religions.

I've never at any stage suggested the children referred to here were at risk or undeserving of charity. I don't doubt that the Christians are making a better life for the majority of them.

Agreed.

kandahar

[bifftastic]

I'm sure he appreciates you answering for him and flaming me in the process...

Lets not flame anyone Guys, This thread will disapear for sure. The Mods are up early this morning

Biff needs to spend 15 years in that Village and see where he stands on the Bhuddism thing. Suspect he can't wait for the experience.

Scea will probably be back shortly. he's good at it.

Whether he appreciates it or not is not of the slightest interest to me, and I wasn't flaming, just suggesting kangaroo boy gets out of the right side of the bed so he might not jump down everyones throat. Bit rich saying I was flaming after he's called other people all kinds of names in this thread for doubting the orphanage, and my posts have been supportive of what the 'missionaries' have been doing, hence my comment about his bed.

As for Bhuddism, or any organised religion, I'm an atheist and a socialist. To me, it's all brainwashing of one kind or another, stops people from getting bored I suppose. To each his own.

Edit; seems he got bounced

nice idea about the motorcycle group heading up there, kandahar weighing in with his usual good sense and calm vibe :jap:

Edited July 28, 2010 by bifftastic

[jubby]

Not one mention about my Chicken Legs Guys.

But very wise words from both Kd & scea (and Biff) nontheless

I was thinking along the same lines for the motorcy group if it ever takes off.

I'm up for that reccy trip Kd. I dont have anything planned for the weekend. maybe I can take my Kids also.

I'm sure I can contribute even without my Christain or Bhuddhism doctrine. Did I get the spelling right this time ?

Edited July 28, 2010 by jubby

[kandahar]

Not one mention about my Chicken Legs Guys.

But very wise words from both Kd & scea (and Biff) nontheless

I was thinking along the same lines for the motorcy group if it ever takes off.

I'm up for that reccy trip Kd. I dont have anything planned for the weekend. maybe I can take my Kids also.

I'm sure I can contribute even without my Christain or Bhuddhism doctrine. Did I get the spelling right this time ?

No, you screwed up the spelling, again.

[bifftastic]

Not one mention about my Chicken Legs Guys.

But very wise words from both Kd & scea nontheless

I was thinking along the same lines for the motorcy group if it ever takes off.

I'm up for that reccy trip Kd. I dont have anything planned for the weekend. maybe I can take my Kids also.

I'm sure I can contribute even without my Christain or Bhuddhism doctrine. Did I get the spelling right this time ?

Well, I didn't really notice your legs when we met, but even if you have got chicken legs, I'm sure someone will still love you!

[bifftastic]

Not one mention about my Chicken Legs Guys.

But very wise words from both Kd & scea (and Biff) nontheless

I was thinking along the same lines for the motorcy group if it ever takes off.

I'm up for that reccy trip Kd. I dont have anything planned for the weekend. maybe I can take my Kids also.

I'm sure I can contribute even without my Christain or Bhuddhism doctrine. Did I get the spelling right this time ?

No, you screwed up the spelling, again.

yeah you did

[kandahar]

Not one mention about my Chicken Legs Guys.

But very wise words from both Kd & scea (and Biff) nontheless

I was thinking along the same lines for the motorcy group if it ever takes off.

I'm up for that reccy trip Kd. I dont have anything planned for the weekend. maybe I can take my Kids also.

I'm sure I can contribute even without my Christain or Bhuddhism doctrine. Did I get the spelling right this time ?

Good that you're going and taking the kids. That means you can haul the fruit in the truck or car and the wife and I can ride the motorcycle.