Chiang Rai Students Charged With Inciting Disorder

[OctavianCaesar]

While I agree their arrest is a bit harsh, where do you draw the line at ignoring the law? The emergency decree may be inappropriate, but it is the law. Like in the US, I don't agree with putting people in prison for smoking pot...but it's the law. Break it and you go to jail. Same here. And we've had 2 bomb blasts recently...so things are still not settled down.

If they would have done something quicker with the protesters in Bangkok, many would still be alive...rather than dead.

While I agree you should be able to protest, this is exactly what started all these problems....

What I find interesting is the police are actually doing something about this now...where before, nothing would have been done???

The US constitution demands its citizens who're able must fight against the law however they're able when they believe it's corrupt.

As for drawing the line, try telling Abhisit that when they illegally shot unarmed civilians. Talk to him about his crime against humanity and human rights violations.

As for the bomb blasts, it was probably the PAD who carried themout. The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence, only the Democrats and PAD do, as it gives them reason to extend their power in emergeny decree.

[OctavianCaesar]

Seems the students were within the guidelines of public gatherings and probably chose 5 for that reason so not sure why they should be arrested.

SOE > "The ruling bans public gatherings of more than 5 people and gives security forces the right to detain suspects for 30 days without any charge."

It wasn't the number of people. You're not allowed to say "bad things". Abhisit's having a difficult time right now, and he's very sensative about what he's done, and does not want people telling him about it. LOL

[craigt3365]

It their own fault - they could have just joined the PAD rally with the PM - then it would have been OK. Kids! listen now, this is what happens when you color outside the lines. :jap:

Wait, that's not a bad idea. If we all put on yellow T-shirts, will we be free to do whatever we like and protest how we want?

Isn't that what the reds did? Protest how they wanted? It's time we all grow up and stop this yellow red bickering. Reconciliation will never happen until this stops.

And everybody is blaming Abhisit. He is no worse than his predecessors. Maybe better. Decisions being made are not necessarily his. Kinda like Obama in the US. He can not make new law, just approve or disapprove what comes from congress....yet he gets all the blame.

Where in the US constitution does it demand citizens to fight the law? I would love to see that....

Your argument about unarmed civilians is a bit off the mark...been proven weapons were definitely among the protesters. Might want to do some research on that one.

I know somebody knows who did the recent bombing, but is definitely not you or I. Pure speculation that only helps flame the problem.

I think letting people protest how they see fit is how we got into this problem in the first place. Yellow and red protests. Time to stop them, unless they are within the law...i.e. peaceful and not inciting problems. Hard to argue with that?

[OctavianCaesar]

Isn't that what the reds did? Protest how they wanted? It's time we all grow up and stop this yellow red bickering. Reconciliation will never happen until this stops.

No. I think the point of the Reds was reconciliation will never happen until we have elections. Regardless of who wins them, that's all they wanted to settle the dispute.

"]Where in the US constitution does it demand citizens to fight the law? I would love to see that....[" The declaration of independance.

Your argument about unarmed civilians is a bit off the mark...been proven weapons were definitely among the protesters. Might want to do some research on that one.

Just because armed individuals were present at the protest, it does not give you the right to shoot the unarmed ones. There's no proof that any of the people killed or injured were of those armed individuals who possessed rifles or grenade launchers or such. There is video footage, however, of unarmed people being shot and killed. We're talking tens of thousands of bullets launched in the direction of unarmed individuals.

What happened is both a breach of human rights and a crime against humanity. Areas such as the militaries live fire zone prove this; they had authorized the use of force against unamred individuals. Also that the Reds were targeted systematically due to their political affiliations is another serious breach.

I know somebody knows who did the recent bombing, but is definitely not you or I. Pure speculation that only helps flame the problem.

Yes, discovering who is guilty for crimes commited is hindering reconciliation. I've heard that line before. It's shameful.

Actually, us Reds would support an amnesty for those individuals crimes which did not result in the loss of life if it helped bring elections and restore peace. But this is a one way gesture.

I think letting people protest how they see fit is how we got into this problem in the first place. Yellow and red protests. Time to stop them, unless they are within the law...i.e. peaceful and not inciting problems. Hard to argue with that?

It's easy to argue with that. People have the right to express themselves peacefully. That was the idea of the Reds protest, peaceful expression. It's a shame some people thought to bring weapons, but they were few and far between.

If it were to be imposed, and such that it has been, that people are denied the right to political expression and protest, this again is a breach of human rights.

[craigt3365]

I think you are being a little simplistic. The reds wanted more than elections (at least the leaders do). Thaksin is the fly in this ointment. It was put forth as a key agenda item during their recent meeting here in Pattaya. So, elections are just a small part of it....and were actually a smoke screen hiding the other agenda items.

The Declaration of Independence does not DEMAND US citizens to fight the law if they believe it is corrupt. It gives us the right to bear arms, protect ourselves, freedom of religion/speech, etc. But not to fight the law like you state. That's just plain wrong. Do some research here....

Totally agree with you about shooting unarmed civilians. Unfortunately, the armed ones where so ingrained with the unarmed ones it was hard to get everything taken care of. If the reds really wanted a peaceful protest, their own guards would have gotten rid of the armed civilians (or armed military) amongst them. They did not. And there is video footage of soldiers being shot, civilians being hit with grenades fired from within the reds camps, etc. You are skewing things way too much. This problem you state goes both ways.

The reds never wanted a peaceful protest. Maybe the individuals initially did...but not the leaders. They stood on stages and told the masses to bring bottles to fill with gas to burn Bangkok. Is that peaceful? No way...you've got blinders on, my friend. Or just a red troll trying to stir things up.

I'm neither red nor yellow. Just want peace. But both sides need to accept what they did was wrong. Until that happens, there will never be reconciliation. Can you do that?

[OctavianCaesar]

I think you are being a little simplistic. The reds wanted more than elections (at least the leaders do). Thaksin is the fly in this ointment. It was put forth as a key agenda item during their recent meeting here in Pattaya. So, elections are just a small part of it....and were actually a smoke screen hiding the other agenda items.

They had five demands, but the main one was elections. I don't think this is a smoke screen to hide any other agenda. What agendas do you refer to? That's ridiculous; the people were angry because clear election results were not respected. They were told they were stupid, uneducated, and that their votes did not matter. That's why the movement is so popular.

The Declaration of Independence does not DEMAND US citizens to fight the law if they believe it is corrupt. It gives us the right to bear arms, protect ourselves, freedom of religion/speech, etc. But not to fight the law like you state. That's just plain wrong. Do some research here....

It's interpretation, really. It does implore those capable of fixing problems to actively do so.

'Totally agree with you about shooting unarmed civilians. Unfortunately, the armed ones where so ingrained with the unarmed ones it was hard to get everything taken care of. If the reds really wanted a peaceful protest, their own guards would have gotten rid of the armed civilians (or armed military) amongst them. They did not. And there is video footage of soldiers being shot, civilians being hit with grenades fired from within the reds camps, etc. You are skewing things way too much. This problem you state goes both ways.

Those Reds who did fire weapons should also be brought to justice, yes.

The soldiers, however, were not firing only in cases where armed individuals were present. They were actively shooting at people who were clearly unarmed when no armed protesters were in sight. My point on a crime against humanity and human rights violation is valid and correct, yet justice is not being sought. International intervention is needed.

Do not underestimate the gravity of this crime, my friend. No government should be allowed to simply murder its opposition without consequence. Accepting what happened and not acting against it is staying silent on something so dangerous.

'The reds never wanted a peaceful protest. Maybe the individuals initially did...but not the leaders. They stood on stages and told the masses to bring bottles to fill with gas to burn Bangkok. Is that peaceful? No way...you've got blinders on, my friend. Or just a red troll trying to stir things up.e]

Disturbing, yes, but it does not invalidate the entire movement nor excuse the governments actions.

['I'm neither red nor yellow. Just want peace. But both sides need to accept what they did was wrong. Until that happens, there will never be reconciliation. Can you do that?[/

I never bore arms and have broken no laws. I've done nothing wrong. I want an independant investigation into all things that occured and justice to be served. I want open elections to be held in a free media enviroment. This is pretty typical Red desire, it's also fairly fair. It's being denied.

[whybother]

<snip>

The soldiers, however, were not firing only in cases where armed individuals were present. They were actively shooting at people who were clearly unarmed when no armed protesters were in sight. My point on a crime against humanity and human rights violation is valid and correct, yet justice is not being sought. International intervention is needed.

<snip>

How can soldiers know that people are "clearly unarmed" when they are getting shot at by the protesters?

[animatic]

While I agree their arrest is a bit harsh, where do you draw the line at ignoring the law? The emergency decree may be inappropriate, but it is the law. Like in the US, I don't agree with putting people in prison for smoking pot...but it's the law. Break it and you go to jail. Same here. And we've had 2 bomb blasts recently...so things are still not settled down.

If they would have done something quicker with the protesters in Bangkok, many would still be alive...rather than dead.

While I agree you should be able to protest, this is exactly what started all these problems....

What I find interesting is the police are actually doing something about this now...where before, nothing would have been done???

The US constitution demands its citizens who're able must fight against the law however they're able when they believe it's corrupt.

As for drawing the line, try telling Abhisit that when they illegally shot unarmed civilians. Talk to him about his crime against humanity and human rights violations.

As for the bomb blasts, it was probably the PAD who carried themout. The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence, only the Democrats and PAD do, as it gives them reason to extend their power in emergeny decree.

That's the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution.

[IvanDobsky]

it would be interesting to know if the students' parents have any political affiliation but they should have a right to peacefully protest.

Once again, the reds say they want elections but they already had them. They just can't accept that it is parliament that decides the government and not the voters. Rather like the UK.

Why not wait for the elections that are due next year?

Peaceful protest is fine but why lay siege to the centre of Bangkok?

Why confront the army at their base?

Why risk people's lives and why burn your own capital?

[craigt3365]

It's well known the reason for the protests was Thaksin and his money...money that he was losing. I had several relatives who went to the rallies...all were paid very well...and none would have gone without the money. Sure, they support the reds, but it's all about money. Same with the democrats. Same in every country.

Thaksin's the problem. The basic premise of the reds is fine...but the money politics get in the way...the lowly red protesters are being used...and they don't even know it.

I agree an analysis should be done into the whole mess. But TIT, it won't happen. Some areas will be investigated, some facts revealed, but it will still be a mess.

Reconciliation seems to be a pipe dream right now. Sad.

[yoshiwara]

While I agree their arrest is a bit harsh, where do you draw the line at ignoring the law? The emergency decree may be inappropriate, but it is the law. Like in the US, I don't agree with putting people in prison for smoking pot...but it's the law. Break it and you go to jail. Same here. And we've had 2 bomb blasts recently...so things are still not settled down.

If they would have done something quicker with the protesters in Bangkok, many would still be alive...rather than dead.

While I agree you should be able to protest, this is exactly what started all these problems....

What I find interesting is the police are actually doing something about this now...where before, nothing would have been done???

The US constitution demands its citizens who're able must fight against the law however they're able when they believe it's corrupt.

As for drawing the line, try telling Abhisit that when they illegally shot unarmed civilians. Talk to him about his crime against humanity and human rights violations.

As for the bomb blasts, it was probably the PAD who carried themout. The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence, only the Democrats and PAD do, as it gives them reason to extend their power in emergeny decree.

Our friend gives the game away:

'The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence'

Apart from that the usual red apologetics of blaming everybody else for their own actions.

Still pushing the unarmed civilian story? Arisman would be amused.

[animatic]

While I agree their arrest is a bit harsh, where do you draw the line at ignoring the law? The emergency decree may be inappropriate, but it is the law. Like in the US, I don't agree with putting people in prison for smoking pot...but it's the law. Break it and you go to jail. Same here. And we've had 2 bomb blasts recently...so things are still not settled down.

If they would have done something quicker with the protesters in Bangkok, many would still be alive...rather than dead.

While I agree you should be able to protest, this is exactly what started all these problems....

What I find interesting is the police are actually doing something about this now...where before, nothing would have been done???

The US constitution demands its citizens who're able must fight against the law however they're able when they believe it's corrupt.

As for drawing the line, try telling Abhisit that when they illegally shot unarmed civilians. Talk to him about his crime against humanity and human rights violations.

As for the bomb blasts, it was probably the PAD who carried themout. The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence, only the Democrats and PAD do, as it gives them reason to extend their power in emergeny decree.

Our friend gives the game away:

'The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence'

Apart from that the usual red apologetics of blaming everybody else for their own actions.

Still pushing the unarmed civilian story? Arisman would be amused.

With or without the emergency decree they still have the powers of the government.

There is little reason to extended it except to aid in maintaining public order and safety.

Power they will have anyway, but abilities to effectively control the nutters on the loose,

and their danger to innocent bystanders is much more the real issue of the SoE

Edited August 1, 2010 by animatic

[craigt3365]

While I agree their arrest is a bit harsh, where do you draw the line at ignoring the law? The emergency decree may be inappropriate, but it is the law. Like in the US, I don't agree with putting people in prison for smoking pot...but it's the law. Break it and you go to jail. Same here. And we've had 2 bomb blasts recently...so things are still not settled down.

If they would have done something quicker with the protesters in Bangkok, many would still be alive...rather than dead.

While I agree you should be able to protest, this is exactly what started all these problems....

What I find interesting is the police are actually doing something about this now...where before, nothing would have been done???

The US constitution demands its citizens who're able must fight against the law however they're able when they believe it's corrupt.

As for drawing the line, try telling Abhisit that when they illegally shot unarmed civilians. Talk to him about his crime against humanity and human rights violations.

As for the bomb blasts, it was probably the PAD who carried themout. The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence, only the Democrats and PAD do, as it gives them reason to extend their power in emergeny decree.

Our friend gives the game away:

'The Red Shirts have nothing to gain by further violence'

Apart from that the usual red apologetics of blaming everybody else for their own actions.

Still pushing the unarmed civilian story? Arisman would be amused.

With or without the emergency decree they still have the powers of the government.

There is little reason to extended it except to aid in maintaining public order and safety.

Power they will have anyway, but abilities to effectively control the nutters on the loose,

and their danger to innocent bystanders is much more the real issue of the SoE

Isn't one of the big reasons for the emergency decree the inability of the police to maintain order? Even the army has problems, but a bit better than the police force....especially in many Issan provinces. If the police enforced the laws, we wouldn't have had the problem in Bangkok....or many of the other areas they refused to do what they were suppose to....right?

[mazeltov]

Isn't one of the big reasons for the emergency decree the inability of the police to maintain order? Even the army has problems, but a bit better than the police force....especially in many Issan provinces. If the police enforced the laws, we wouldn't have had the problem in Bangkok....or many of the other areas they refused to do what they were suppose to....right?

No, wrong.

[craigt3365]

Isn't one of the big reasons for the emergency decree the inability of the police to maintain order? Even the army has problems, but a bit better than the police force....especially in many Issan provinces. If the police enforced the laws, we wouldn't have had the problem in Bangkok....or many of the other areas they refused to do what they were suppose to....right?

No, wrong.

Nice, long, intelligent reply. Thanks. But I am right.

[hammered]

Pretty silly and counterproductive to charge these people imho.

Chiang Rai is and will no doubt remain the feudal fiefdom of a group of local ammat loyal to an extreme degree to Thaksin and his movements. Everyone knows exactly who they are and if the government really wanted to they could just take them out or imprison them which is why anyone equating Thailand to Burma doesnt know what they are talking about. There is a huge difference. Opposition even after openl;y calling for and supporting violent uprisings and attacks on several occasions are still able to operate with only small obstacles. In Burma they would be jailed, dead or driven into exile with families held hostage.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Red-Shirt students surrenders to Chiang Rai Police

[elkangorito]

It's good to see;

a] Freedom of speech 'alive & well' in Thailand.

b] The Thai police are fully capable of upholding the law, unto which they are required.

[SamritT]

The Reds are using kids as their shields again.>

Unfortunately kids are every where

Kaymaker is a Newbie and Rucharee Mark II

[chantorn]

Children should go to school to learn, and not protest.

[philw]

Children should go to school to learn, and not protest.

Love it.

Can you find a lower common denominator ?

Must be possible.

[elkangorito]

It reminds me of that disgusting saying, 'Children should be seen & not heard'.

The strange thing is that the people in question are not children...they are adults.

I know for a fact that Thai colleges treat the students like children. In actual fact, many of the Thai college students vote & are of 'legal' age. Thai university students are usually older than Thai college students.

Good luck to the protestors, providing they are peaceful.