British Child Molester Gets 42 Years In Thai Jail

[chonabot]

Dave , to place theft above paedophilia in terms of disgusting acts is incomprehensible. I would retract this statement before its too late.

Surely you made a mistake by that statement?

I'll be interested to see which method you use to alleviate this quandary you have entered.

[taxexile]

daveyo

you have a very strange and warped view of life, but that you should as good as condone unnatural sexual behaviour involving minors and consider it less serious than simple theft of personal belongings leads me to believe that you are a complete fruitcake with a streak of sleazy evil running through your psyche.

i think you should seek help.

[Lifelover]

Low IQ, feelings of inadequacy even oppression, strongly held opinions…unable to follow reason, tormented minds, aggression directed as those seen as less fortunate.

I’m describing a psychological state that afflicts many people we might know and which some posters to this subject may be all too familiar with.

I have studied psychology to advanced degree level, worked in a maximum securirty mental prison with patients who have committed muder most foul and lectured on the subject for a number of years in the UK. Today I am researching/writing a book on mass psychology.

I pointed out early in this thread that first and foremost we don’t know the details of this case beyond a generalised account in a newspaper article. Any conclusive judgement based on such spurious information is nonsense, though we are all entitled to express our opinions. I just wish they were more balanced.

I said before, but I can see that it is worth stating again, there are degrees of child molestation and given that everyone accepts that CM is a crime (and possibly a mental sickness too) it should be punished/treated. But surely the sentence should be in relation to the nature and degree of the crime committed?

Ten years and psychiatric counselling may be enough for this man. I have seen hardened murderers turned around in less. And on that point let me tell you that given the best case scenario (the best case OK) I outlined in my earlier post, ten years would be way too much.

I wonder if you have noticed that three people here, myself included, have owned up to having been molested as children and yet none of us have called for hanging and castration of this fellow. What is it the rest of you know that we don’t?

When the finger points to the moon, the idiot looks at the finger.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I suspended DaveYo for 14 days.

[chonabot]

Lifelover , you have gained an insight that I'm relieved/fortunate not to share , but I wonder how you could convey your beliefs to the parents of a child who has been molested , or in fact your own children if this ever happened, God forbid, to them.

I can only speak for myself, if one of my children was molested in a sexual manner by someone who may or may not require counselling, I would lose control of my reasoning, and there would be grave consequences for that pervert.

It may not be the "right" thing to do , but it would stop the next possible victim from the same fate.

[taxexile]

lifelover,

surely the purpose of a long term of imprisonment is to protect the public from the actions of the criminal.

whilst they are locked up, the public are safe to carry on with their lives.

the needs and safety of the majority must come before the needs of the lawbreaker.

some criminals may be helped/cured by psychiatric help, but you can never be sure. criminals are by definition devious and manipulative, and can fool medics as well as victims.

only last week in the uk, a murderer (3 or 4 women,dismembered,dumped in trash bins around london) was sentenced to life imprisonment.

2 weeks before he committed the first murder, he was released from a psychiatric hospital and pronounced as no danger to the public. he was originally treated as the result of rape and violence after serving a prison sentence.so much for the skill of his psychiatric consultant.

the only way to be sure is to lock them up for life.

justice should be for the benefit of the victims and potential victims.

not for the benefit of the criminals or the reputation of the psychiatric workers who treat them and naturally would like to notch up successful treatments for their cv's.

i maintain that a life sentence is totally appropriate for this case.

[pnustedt]

From that 14 day status it becomes a permanent ban

Ah come on - Dave doesn't mean any harm to anyone. It's just that he doesn't grasp things too well - he reckons Joan of Ark is Noah's bar girl!

Nobody who knows this site takes him seriously! Give him a break, he's just part of the rich tapestry of life!

[geezer]

hes a sick twisted puppy who needs to be kicked where it hurts most., <deleted> needs to be banned for good

[Lifelover]

I can fully understand the emotional response to the question: “What if it was one of your children?” The automatic response to a perceived danger is protection/aggression. A more considered response would be to assess the level of danger and the possible affect on the child, taking into account in particular the age of the child and his or her level of maturity and previous sexual experience. Also of course what type of sexual abuse we are talking about and whether it was consensual sex or rape, for example.

Those of you who never get further than a knee jerk reaction will not appreciate that statement, since you will lump anything remotely sexual concerning young people as molestation. ‘Molestation’ is already a loaded term. It is not so cut and dried.

Perhaps we can have some debate (fewer knee jerks please) over three apposite situations, all taken from here in Thailand.

Example one. I was with one of the ‘victims’ of Eric Rosser, the paedophile who was until recently on the USA’s Top 10 Most Wanted List, when they were re-introduced to each other, having been out of contact for several years. They had spent quite a long time together previously when she was a young teenager. There was no remorse on his part and no hatred on hers. They greeted each other with obvious affection. I discussed this with her at length. She confided in me that he had been really good to her and that she still liked him. “He is a good man” she insisted. She herself was not remotely affected by her experiences. This was one case that I am familiar with and I can’t speak for his other ‘victims’ since I have not interviewed them. If any were hurt or traumatised (I don't know of any) I don't mean to belittle your situation.

Example two. When a 40 year old hill tribesman in the North of Thailand marries a local girl of 11 years (and they have children when she is 12), is he a paedophile? In some cultures here in Thailand, for example Lahu, this is not considered abnormal. I know so many families where this has occurred and they are ‘normal’ in every (other) respect, living very contented lives. In America he would be locked away and local citizens would call for his hanging (or so it seems from reading some of these posts).

Example three. Thailand is full of street kids, who sell garlands and food and trinkets, or just beg. Many start at 4 or 5 years of age and by the time they are 10 or 11, are as streetwise as it is possible to be. You cannot compare these children to others of that age who are brought up in a ‘normal’ caring, protective, family. Your children for example. The Child Molester in question may have procured boys off the street, boys who regularly sell sexual favours to local people (just as very young girls here do) usually to their Thai ‘minders’. I see that many times here and have talked to some of them about their experiences. This possibility would not condone his activities (having sex with minors because they are already experienced and willing is not OK, per se and it is after all against the laws of this land, despite what is accepted in the remoter regions), but before concluding that he should be locked away for life for ‘whatever he did’, wouldn’t this at least be a mitigating circumstance (as in, surely less than 42 years)?

This is my last attempt to open a meaningful discussion. If it fails I’m outa here and will try less emotive subjects like Elite cards…oops, just noticed the knee-jerkers are there too. Gawwd.

[Guest IT Manager]

hes a sick twisted puppy who needs to be kicked where it hurts most.,     <deleted> needs to be banned for good 

For the record... not PM'd.

Over the last few weeks I have been corresponding daily with Daveyo. He isn't a sick puppy at all, he thinks in a different way to most people. I don't presume to know him or to offer advice on how to deal with him, but since it's so easy to toss insults left right and centre based on what you chaps read, perhaps you should all think along the following lines:

• What do you know about the poster, apart from what you read in his/her posts?
  
• Are you qualified to make judgments about people based on what you read, considering many posters have a problem reading an entire post.
  

At the end of the day, and I got an interesting view in PM from one member which I am sorely tempted to post, where you are all hoist on your own petard, to quote him.

Geezer, you of all people, should shut up about people with low self esteem, farting in the direction of a keyboard and calling it a post.

Lifelover is the only one with either the experience to judge the results of what I consider a "crime" and discuss those results in a well thought out, well reasoned way.

I don't disagree with many of the things posters have said, but I don't want to close this thread either. There are germinates of ideas being discussed on a higher plane than I have experienced in the pub, and am interested at the interchanges, which have only been interrupted by idiots who are incapable of thought outside the bint on Friday or the Chang in the frig.

If you feel rational debate is furthered by threats, fine, post. I will delete them. If you think one or the other poster making a statement contrary to your view of the world and it needs to be exorcised by you making non-essential commentary, fine, post, I may delete that as well.

As to you being 68 and her being 18 so is is legal. Social claptrap. You should stay in your room and have someone make sure the blanket on your knees doesn't fall off, and to wipe your chin when you drool.

There. "Analyse That", to quote a movie I saw once.

[taxexile]

lifelover

when a hilltribe man marries a young girl and raises a family with her they are acting within the mores of their society, they are accepted by their society.

neither considers it abnormal,there is no guilt or blame, it is a natural occurrence.

when a western man with paedophilic tendencies comes to thailand and by means of money or force,uses his power to have sexual relations in hotel rooms with young children,and films those encounters,and tries to sell those films,it is not a natural occurrence. it is a corrupting and criminal occurrence,the man (the one with the power) is using that power knowingly to engage in activities that he would not be able to engage in so easily in his home country. he is taking advantage. whether or not the children are psychologically harmed is of no relevance, whilst a guest in the country he has knowingly broken the law, if he was allowed to get away with it then hundreds more would follow in his footsteps.

i fail to see any mitigating circumstances and believe his punishment to be just.

[geezer]

excuse me mr admin where do u get off telling me to shut up who said anything to u anyway i find that insulting and i have a right to an opinion here too i have seen the post and have made comments . my comments have been the same as all the others except YOURS i wonder why you decided to pick on mine ??? is it because u dont like me or my opinion if thats the case then why call this an open forum why not call the it forum just to make u happy .

i hate child abusers and i dont like anyone making fun of the subject thats why i make the strong comments i did and i think most would agree with what i said including sick boy SO DONT YOU DARE SINGLE ME MATE ON THIS TOUCHY SUBJECT it wasnt me who put theft higher on the list than child abusing so please you shut up for once in your life time or will this post be deleted again just like the others i have put up (open forum)

[Guest IT Manager]

Geezer it wasn't deleted because it added something. The one I deleted didn't. Simple. Which should be manageable IMHO even by you.

[KevinN]

I truly think that LIFELOVER is full of shit. As far as I can see, No One understands the human mind,and if they do ,then they know that there is not much they can do to change the makeup of it.

I and my sister were molested by the father of my stepdad when we were very young,as far as I know there was never penetration,but fondling and touching, and it ######ed my sister up and has never been forgotten by me and am still bothered today and am over 70 years old,so that happened about 65 years ago.My halfd bro. who is 5 years my junior was treated by him the same as I was and he did turn into a pedophile and lives in mexico and is to this day molesting children,not small boys but early teen age girls as far as I know.or maybe even preteens.

I have been involved with shrinks both while in the service and when in alcohol treatment,and they are as nuts as the rest of us,,the only thing is they got the sheep skin and can get a person to talk about the problem,and unless you can see where you are wrong and uncomfortable with it ,then there ain't a ###### thing they can do to make you a different person. But then they don't know that unless you tell em.

As was stated in an earlier post,there are patients that are confirmed cured,released and go onto bigger abd better things shortly after release, It is in the news all the time in the states about some nut being cured and released and then doing something worse.

I have no faith in nut cracker,but I can see where they stand to gain, claiming "nut cured and released" then they keep their cushy job,keep raking in the gold and keep turning nuts loose to rape and plunder.

No one completely understands the human mind,and if there are those that think they do,then they should be locked up before they can do more damage to society.

[parryhandy]

This punishment right or wrong is being used as a deterrent and to show Thailand is a place that doesnt want these types of sick people. But what bothers me though is the fact that it is so easy to lure these children in the first place .Where are the parents, family social services and care centers to help these children.Why is it so easy for these sick people to find these children in countries like this.Where are these children that were invovled in these films this guy made? Has anybody looked for them and tried to help them ? Sadly i doubt it .....

Sod drugs people can chose to take them or not.What about a crackdown on these people and human traffickers and use the money wasted on the war on drugs to help these children.

[chonabot]

[A. BOOZER]

Complete and utter indifference to his fate.

Sorry, just thinking about the affect of his actions on his victims, how many lives have been affected by his vile habits? Just a pity that the likes of the Soham (England) murderer won't be incarcerated under similar circumstances and for the same period.

[Lifelover]

I’m with you there parryhandy. They are easy to find because they are there and unfortunately here in Thailand, often soliciting too. But what is being done to help them?

Way back on page 2 I said "I think that some of you posting hatred messages on this topic need to look into your own psyche very carefully. What is it that induces you to hate this young man". KevinN, you've just answered that question very well.

I sympathise with you and your sister and half-brother having been molested by a step-Grandad at the age of five. That is the most miserable of experiences and it is no surprise at all that you were all affected by it adversely.

Your dealings with shrinks seem to have been much later in life for other reasons, including alcohol abuse, but these may well be connected. You don’t need to expose yourself further in this forum, but I’d just like to make a few general observations.

I’m not a shrink by the way. You are referring to analysts or possibly psychiatrists. Since people are not always sure about the differences between these specialities, I’ll begin with a definition. A psychiatrist is a physician who specialises in the treatment of all kinds of mental illnesses; an analyst is a therapist who concentrates on the treatment of one group of mental disorders – the neuroses – through a long and careful examination of largely unconscious processes; while a psychologist is a pure scientist who studies all states of the mind and all forms of behaviour, whether normal or abnormal, human or animal. My own academic training is in child psychology.

I agree that nobody completely understands the mind, but some do so very much better than others and after 150 years as an independent discipline, psychology has come a long way to explaining a great deal about our behaviour and the state of our mind.

Freud was the first to find that real or imagined sexual trauma at a very early age was often the cause of illness later in life. Usually the patient represses the memory into the unconscious in order to defend his or herself. Using a technique called free association, Freud and Freudian analysts found they could unlock the unconscious, thereby enabling the patient to discharge the emotion involved. This procedure became known as psychoanalysis.

Not surprisingly patients suffer inhibitions during this therapy and resist it. The analyst’s role is to interpret this resistance and to help the patient to overcome and understand it. KevinN you probably put up quite a fight.

Children of a very early age, at five, are fully bonded to their parents (or surrogate parents). When the child (or more correctly the child’s superego) gleans information about intentions which it judges incompatible with parental values, the superego intervenes to induce anxiety or guilt and, not infrequently, it firmly cuts the wires making further consideration of the subject impossible.

The sad truth is that just as children suffering from vitamin D deficiency grow up with bowed and distorted limbs, so children deprived of a parent’s love (or who are abused) are prone to develop rickets of the soul. Early experiences are crucial for healthy development.

Consider the case of your half-brother with the following in mind. In 1946 Carl Jung discovered that it is the predisposition to have a certain experience which is inherited, not the experience itself. Thus archetypes predispose us to approach life and to experience it in certain ways, according to patterns already laid down in the psyche. “Behind a man’s actions”, he wrote, “there stands neither public opinion nor the moral code, but the personality of which he is still unconscious”.

KevinN, as very young children we expect our parents to be gods and it comes to all of us as a painful disappointment when we discover them to be fallible, like everyone else. As Oscar Wilde put it: “Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them”.

Now back to our Child Molester in the Bangkok Hilton. Paedophiles are not an homogeneous group of people with similar personalities, aims and desires. Strictly speaking a paedophile is someone who is attracted sexually to pre-pubescent children, that is, usually under the age of 11. The most common age of the victims is around 7 and 8 years old, an age when children begin to discover their own sexuality and its power and are therefore easier to encourage. Men who are attracted to children of this age are generally not attracted to those older or younger and vice versa. What stimulates them is quite different. What treatment they need is also quite different.

Our man was not the infant molesting type, nor the usual paedophile. His sexual acts were with boys 9-13 and as I said before, we don’t know if that was one 9 year old and all the rest 13 years old. It IS an important distinction. At puberty the male child receives a sudden dramatic increase in the amount of testosterone circulating in the blood: this fuels the sexual appetite. In many primitive societies the onset of puberty is the start of adulthood, for boys and girls alike (often with elaborate initiation rites) and pairing and sexual bonding occur naturally subsequently and not always within the same age group. It is not unnatural for an adult to be sexually attracted to a sexually mature adolescent and vice-versa in any society. Different social mores have imposed restrictions on generationally different sexual bonding, but this is a social function and therefore imposed, not a biological or psychologically innate one.

I won’t repeat all that I’ve said before about this case, except to point out once again that there is a world of difference between what happened to KevinN for example, and what happened to me, and what happened to the victims of our CM. The penalties associated with each crime must be different and in the case of post pubescent street kids, less severe, other things being equal. That’s my opinion, based on no concrete details at all of this case! Maybe I am full of shit after all Kevin!

[Guest IT Manager]

Thank you for your detailed posting Lifelover. It certainly puts a few issues into different perspective for me, at least.

KevinN I know some things are hard, like what you went through, and I think perhaps if you were to investigate some more, you would find that your expressed hatred as opposed to that which has been implied in your posts, you would start to feel better about some of the issues causing the pain I have been aware of in a few of your posts.

Since I know that isn't likely to happen I just hope you can find somewhere to be comfortable one day.

IT

[maerim]

Why do dogs lick their kanackers?because they can that's why.

People like this 24 year old come here because they know they can buy young boys (and girls) who have only one thing to sell, themselves.

As to the prison term, he will get out when he is eligable for his old age pension in the U.K. They will put him in a council house on a sink estate somewhere and he can look forward to having the windows smashed and the rest of his miserable life made a living ######.

All in all I think that is about right. Do the crime do the time.

[Guest IT Manager]

But surely Mae Rim a person is sent to jail as punishment, not for it. Try to be objective in your response.

[maerim]

Point taken but you will note i did not call for him to be castrated.

He really has something to look forward to though don't you agree?

[taxexile]

a person is sent to jail as punishment

and to allow victims and potential victims to be able to lead normal lives without having to be looking over their shoulders every minute of every day.

please stop concentrating on the criminal for one minute and give some thought to

the victims of crime. they need protecting more than the criminal needs sympathy and an easy stretch.

the victim did not ask for abuse/rape/violence/theft/fraud/etc.

the criminal takes a calculated risk when they set out to commit a crime.

if they miscalculate and find themselves arrested,they should not expect any sympathy or mercy nor should they be given any.

they ask for all the trouble they find themselves in. and thankfully,in thailand,it's a lot.

they know the score.

[bajajvivek]

well folks, no doubt this man has deserved a severe punishment. Nevertheless, 42 years, if it comes to the whole length, is killing. Don`t get me wrong, I am father of two boys and in a way I feel also for this mislead Brit. He is still a boy too which is no excuse. The whole story is so bloody sad. What a society we are in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although I am too young to comment somthing like this but still i've always felt that the Law in my country which states that even if 100 criminals have to be let go away, 1 innocent should not be made to pay for something which he never did is the main reason behind the criminals committing so many crimes. They know how to get aways with the things.

If the law is changed to that let 100 innocents die, don't let 1 criminal get away with the crimes, people will not even think of committing any such thing.

We sure have to pay some price for the Freedom and it never comes cheap.

[bajajvivek]

Well even if he got neutered, he can still get hormone treatments to still stay as a man.  Unless he gets castrated, then you need to get female hormones.

That is not going to solve the problem..    He was into filmin them, and looking to make some money on the porn stuff.  His mistake was also having sex with them kids.  Too bad.  Now if he just filmed it, and had someone else do the molesting, and simply got out, he would not have this fateful day.    It does sell well  when sold into the porn industry and some of these cats will pay premium just to get some real stuff from countries that are hard to get in the first place.

Daveyo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so you are here suggesting how things like these should be done here??

[bajajvivek]

Let him rot for 42 years, I hope he enjoys his stay in a thai jail, he deserves nothing less, in fact I think he got off light.

To say that he is mislead, is just silly in my book, at 24 he should know the difference between wrong & right & be accountable for his actions. Molesting children is sick, child abuse is sick & anyone found doing it deserves the death penalty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Said Rose (can't call u Jack) I mean Boo.

Cheers

Vivek

[WhiteShiva]

If the law is changed to that let 100 innocents die, don't let 1 criminal get away with the crimes, people will not even think of committing any such thing.

We sure have to pay some price for the Freedom and it never comes cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess that is a great idea as long as you are not one of those 100 innocents, right?

According to your logic, if a society has 1% criminals, you can just kill the whole population.

And once the executioners have killed each other as well, and the last guy have turned off the light before shooting himself in the head, there will be no crime.

Moron!

[Nickerelastic]

If the law is changed to that let 100 innocents die, don't let 1 criminal get away with the crimes, people will not even think of committing any such thing.

We sure have to pay some price for the Freedom and it never comes cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess that is a great idea as long as you are not one of those 100 innocents, right?

According to your logic, if a society has 1% criminals, you can just kill the whole population.

And once the executioners have killed each other as well, and the last guy have turned off the light before shooting himself in the head, there will be no crime.

Moron!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NoNo there will still be some sick phhunk taking pictures of the death knell

[bajajvivek]

If the law is changed to that let 100 innocents die, don't let 1 criminal get away with the crimes, people will not even think of committing any such thing.

We sure have to pay some price for the Freedom and it never comes cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess that is a great idea as long as you are not one of those 100 innocents, right?

According to your logic, if a society has 1% criminals, you can just kill the whole population.

And once the executioners have killed each other as well, and the last guy have turned off the light before shooting himself in the head, there will be no crime.

Moron!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite Logical WhiteShiva, you sure have sharp brains. Just think of what exactly u are saying before calling me a moron. If this makes any sence to you, very fine with me. And I don't have any trouble being 1 of those 100 innocents if at last that 1 crook is sent to his destination. And what exactly do you think the Army soldiers at war fronts die for? a 1000 bucks pay? I say NO. its for the justice!

but you are very much welcome to think otherwise.

[Nickerelastic]

And I don't have any trouble being 1 of those 100 innocents if at last that 1 crook is sent to his destination. And what exactly do you think the Army soldiers at war fronts die for? a 1000 bucks pay? I say NO. its for the justice!

I have my own private thoughts regarding men and women who defile and abuse children