Foregn Atm Fee

[hml367]

JFC

You do not know as much as you think you know.

MSPain

Edited August 24, 2010 by hml367

[jfchandler]

I'm glad you're taking the time here to share your great experience on the subject with everyone...

I'm sure everyone reading has learned greatly from your expansive comments.

[hml367]

The original post has to do with ATM fees in Thailand.

I am happy to note that AEON may not have these fees.

MSPain

Edited August 25, 2010 by hml367

[jfchandler]

Re AEON, of course, you're wrong..

The correct info is... AEON DOES NOT (not "may not") have those fees....(the 150 baht foreign ATM card withdrawal fee).

[hml367]

deleted

Edited August 25, 2010 by hml367

[sandmonster]

Interesting to see the arguments between HML and JFC. Made me laugh but I assure readers that JFC is 100% correct about who sets the exchange rates. JFC also knows the difference between the exchange rate set by VISA/MC and the optional issuer fee added by the issuer. In the bank statement entries, they are kinda bungled into one and presented to the cardholder as a single fee/charge so thats confusing but JFC is 101% correct on all aspects. Very well explained. Although I may add that the day the txn is posted to the account is not the same as the day of the transaction itself so it may add to the confusion as rates can change between the 2 dates. There is an exceptional feature where some acquirers present you with a choice of currencies including the amount in issuer currency called Dynamic Currency Conversion ( DCC ). Convenient it may seem but its a rip off and its based in their rate. Very rare in ATMs, usually found in merchant devices. As a rule, never use this as you will be worse off.

I have worked in bank card payments industry with acquirers, issuers and payment networks VISA/MC/AMEX for over 20 years around the world, most recently as a consultant at VISA for the last 6 years. So I would bet my last 150bt ATM fee that JFC is 100% correct

Edited August 25, 2010 by sandmonster

[hml367]

Sandmonster,

I have an ATM card issued by my own financial institution. It does not have Visa or Mastercard logo. It does have ATM system logos. I can use this card at ATM's in Thailand. As soon as I withdraw money from an ATM, the withdrawal and all fees shows up in my bank account. I can check immediatly and see what the exchange rate and fees are. I cannot use the card over the counter or for purchasing. So What exchange rate do I get on that transaction?

Visa and Mastercard set the rates for transactions that go through their systems. Not necessarily for a card not branded by them.

I also have a debit card and a credit card issued by Visa. If I draw from an ATM or over the counter, the transaction has to go through the Visa system and takes some time (days) to show up in my account. The transaction day is not always the same. It is close, but not always the same. If you have worked in a financial institution you should know that they take advantage of overnight funds to the extreme, also.

You and JFC are ignorant of the facts.

You should have better facts before assuring anyone of another person's correctness. That person could also be ignorant. Just check his other activity on other threads.

JFC said a person could take an ATM card inside the bank and make an over the counter transaction. That is not necessarily true. I, for one, cannot do that with my ATM card.

I said AEON may or may not charge an ATM fee. That indicates that I do not know whether they do or not. Yet JFC said I was "wrong". So I guess because I don't necessarily believe his post (I would have to try an AEON ATM to know) that makes me wrong.

You and JFC are ignorant of all the facts, you both are making assumptions, and you believe you have the set in stone answers. Neither one of you do and neither do I. I was just posting my experiences, including working within the "plastic" department, as you have said was your experience, in a financial institution.

If you think I do not know the difference between the ATM fees and a foreign transaction fee on cross border transactions. then again you are ignorant of this fact.

You say that the transaction fee and the ATM fee are "bungled" into one in the bank statement. That is not true 100%. I have one financial institution that does put them together, and I have another insitution that lists the foreign transaction fee separae. If you know how the system works, as was indicated in the posts, the withdrawal amount plus the ATM fee is one transaction. It is cash to the card user and cash (in the form of an audit entry) to the ATM owner.

Again, both you and JFC are ignorant, meaning you do not have all the facts and don' understand some of the others.

MSPain

Interesting to see the arguments between HML and JFC. Made me laugh but I assure readers that JFC is 100% correct about who sets the exchange rates. JFC also knows the difference between the exchange rate set by VISA/MC and the optional issuer fee added by the issuer. In the bank statement entries, they are kinda bungled into one and presented to the cardholder as a single fee/charge so thats confusing but JFC is 101% correct on all aspects. Very well explained. Although I may add that the day the txn is posted to the account is not the same as the day of the transaction itself so it may add to the confusion as rates can change between the 2 dates. There is an added exception where some acquirers can set the exchange rate and present you the amount in issuer currency called DCC. Quite rare in ATMs, usually found in merchant devices. As a rule, never use this as you will be worse off.

I have worked in bank card payments industry with acquirers, issuers and payment networks VISA/MC/AMEX for over 20 years around the world, most recently as a consultant at VISA for the last 6 years. So I would bet my last 150bt ATM fee that JFC is 100% correct

[sandmonster]

Just to add two more Baht, I was looking at a bank statement from July 2008, that shows Chiang Mai spelled three different ways for three different ATMs I used.

Cheangmai, Chiengmai, and Chiangmai. Looks like then, they were giving a solid rate, then charging me two percent (ING Direct).

LOL, the ATM address/location information is sent by the acquiring bank to your issuer along with authorisation request message. So blame it on the IT staff at the acquiring bank who set this up in their databses when that ATM was added to the network You would have got the rate set by VISA/MC at date of posting, and the issuer has at their descretion the right to charge whatever is in their T&C. Add those together and u arrive at the "fee" in your statement.

[sandmonster]

HML, sorry wasn't it obvious we are talking about VISA setting rates for their cards, and MC setting for theirs. I have no idea what card brand you have so I cannot answer without knowng the "ATM system" u are refering to. Tell me the logos and I may be able to help you understand . It may be a single message network where the auth and posting are in single transaction but I am sure u know all about that . I did explain that rates can vary between authorisation and posting . I have worked with many card product managers like yourself at banks in my time, and it does take a bit explaining to them this single and dual message concept ! Someone obviously didn't explain it to you that well. Do you want to revisit your VISA Base I and BASE II manuals again . LOL .

Also JFC is 100% correct about over the counter cash. It is determined by the card brand acceptance. Some brands are ATM-only brands and they won't be accepted over the counter cash, Then again, the bank wouldnt advertise that brand as available over the counter . So HML, chill... we ain't ganging up on you. Suggest you ask some of your more knowlegeable colleagues at the bank you were part of. Maybe you were just a paper pusher type card manager.... LOL. I have met many on my travels sad to say ..

OK with bank statements, its up to the issuer host I admit how they wanna present the "cost" but all my 5 banks only show 1 "cost". Typical of banks who like to hide their part of the juicy fees.. transparency isnt their forte is it ! It may even be a regulatory thing for some countries that they show the different bits. Lucky you But notwithstanding that, JFC and myself are not as ignorant as you think on this particular topic..

Edited August 25, 2010 by sandmonster

[jfchandler]

I'm not going to argue with HML on this subject because it's a pointless venture... My experience and comments on this subject are based on years of direct experience, trials and tests here in Thailand with many different varieties of banks and cards, both on the U.S. and Thailand ends.

The facts are:

AEON ATMs in Thailand, everywhere in Thailand, don't charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign cards that all Thai banks do.

If you could use the same U.S. bank card at different Thai banks' ATMs at exactly the same time, you'll get exactly the same exchange rate, because the exchange rates are set by the VISA and MC card networks that carry those, not the Thai banks. But in real time, the actual rates do change throughout the day.

The one notable exception to that in Thailand, as Sandmonster mentioned above, is Bank of Ayudhya, which uses Dynamic Currency Conversion, last time I checked, on Master Card-based ATM withdrawals on MC cards denominated in U.S. $ and Euros. DCC indeed means a lower exchange rate.

Different U.S. banks show the the foreign ATM and foreign currency charges in different ways. Some combine them all together. Some separate out some or all of them. I've got a couple U.S. banks that show three debits on every debit card purchase made here in Thailand: the purchase amount itself, a currency conversion fee and a cross-border transaction fee (the latter two together adding up to 1% of the purchase amount).

Same variation for how different U.S. banks show the 150 baht Thai banks ATM fee. Some U.S. banks don't separate it out, and just roll it into the total withdrawal. Others show it as a separate line item accompanying each ATM withdrawal.

U.S. bank cards don't have to carry a VISA or MC logo in order to work in Thai bank ATMs for cash withdrawals. Just yesterday, I used one of my U.S. credit union cards (I guess most people would call it an ATM card) that has no VISA or MC logo to make a cash withdrawal from an AEON ATM. The important part is, the card on the back is part of the CIRRUS network, and others are part of the STAR network, which are card varieties that are accepted by Thai ATMs, along with JCB and some others.

I can't speak to whether non-VISA or MC logo cards are accepted by Thai banks for over the counter withdrawals, since I've never attempted one in that manner.

For ATM withdrawals with U.S. bank cards, while the Thai bank you use won't make any difference generally speaking, which U.S. bank card you use can make a huge difference. Some VISA debit cards like those issued by E*Trade and Charles Schwab Bank will yield pretty much the full Interbank Exchange Rate without fees/deductions. Other banks' cards will deduct 1, 2, 3 or more percent as foreign currency conversion fees. So it pays to choose wisely.

[Thighlander]

Have we established that the ATM user will be warned of the 150 THB fee?

[jfchandler]

I know the BKK Bank ATMs do warn prior to completing the transaction... and I believe the SCB ones do as well...

I suspect the others by this point do...but can't vouch from personal experience re the others.

[Thighlander]

I always did better at the Yellow (Ayudhya) machines than the SCB. I recall walking away from TMB a bit dissapointed. I noticed the differences in the TT rates, too. I recall SCB having a lower transaction fee, but a less favorable rate than BKK Bank. Probably better for smaller transactions. It's a part time job staying ahead of bank fees.

The AEON ATM will be my first stop in CM, then I'm going down to the basement BKK Bank branch and make a deposit. I do plan on telling at least one of the executives that I am not a fan of excessive bank fees.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Thighlander

[powderpuff]

... I assure readers that JFC is 100% correct about who sets the exchange rates. JFC also knows the difference between the exchange rate set by VISA/MC and the optional issuer fee added by the issuer. In the bank statement entries, they are kinda bungled into one and presented to the cardholder as a single fee/charge so thats confusing but JFC is 101% correct on all aspects.

Where does the problem lie? With your ability to read or ability to comprehend?

VISA/MC do not set any exchange rates.

As JFC has rightly pointed out the bank who gives you the local currency set the rate based on what day & what time you make a withdrawal.

It's funny you want to agree with someone & then completely misquote him as part of your argument.

The 150 baht fee is a rip-off which the Thai government is well aware of & allows the banks to steal from us. F the falang is well entrenched.

Viva le AEON.

[jfchandler]

No PP, I believe you're mischaracterizing my comments....

As far as ATM withdrawals are concerned using foreign cards, it is indeed the card networks that set the exchange rates you get... not the Thai bank.

Now, counter withdrawals may be a different matter on that score.... but I have no great experience with those...so I won't try to say...

But for foreign card ATM withdrawals, the same U.S. card used at exactly the same time would produce the same exchange rate, regardless of what Thai bank ATM was being used.

[phomsanuk]

Recently I went to SCB where I have an a/c and tried to get money using a foreign debit card and was told I needed to use the ATM, over the counter I needed a Credit Card, doesn't work in the ATM was the reason for going in anyway.

[jfchandler]

RE SCB, based on many reports from other TV members re SCB, they do infact do counter withdrawals.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the particular branch you went to, or the individual teller serving you, either wanted to do them or was familiar with them.

Such is the state of banking in Thailand. You might hope for consistency and uniformity, but you're not likely going to find it.

Counter withdrawals take time and some effort on the part of the teller to do all the paperwork involved. Much easier to just tell the farang, go outside and use the ATM with your debit card.

From what I recall of the various posts re SCB and counter withdrawals, they seemed to have a very high limit, higher than other Thai banks, on the amount you could withdraw via a single counter withdrawal. But they also seemed to be using their own lower exchange rate on those transactions, lower than what you'd get using an ATM. That's what TV members using them reported here....

[tijnebijn]

I've got a ' Maestro " atmcard from ING - bank .

I could not withdraw over the counter , which was very dissapointing ,

it was at Krungthai , try different bank later , but suspect my logo isn't the

right one for over the counter .

My local bank is Siam Commercial , indeed they do have one of the lowest exchange rates lately , changing cash and TT , they used to have slightly higher rates a couple of years ago , but looks like they totally abandoned this policy , thinking to open a new account with Bangkok Bank , they seem to be more reliable , Siam City has got one of the better rates though , not sure its safe enough to open an account there , anyone got experience with City ?

[hml367]

Moderators... hasn't this gone too far away from the orginal question?

MSPain

[CMX]

Obviously, there are complexities here. However, we may have identified information that is agreeable and useful to most of us:

Aeon does NOT (yet, unless we've jinxed them) charge the 150 fee at ATM's.

Unless the card is labeled with Visa or MC, much advice on over-the-counter transactions here in Thailand is not meant to apply.

Generally, however, over-the-counter transactions are direct fee free (no 150 baht).

Foreign (to Thailand, "our" banks, "originating" banks) are the other place where we must look to see what's happening to our money, as their fees or charges and even billing practices differ.

I think that this information would have been extremely useful to me when I first arrived in Thailand, and it should be distributed on labels placed on "free" bottled water in every tourist-favoring hotel, in large lettering in English, Chinese, and Japanese languages, paid for by the banks that charge the 150 fee. I'm writing a (hard copy) letter to the present government right now.

Edited August 26, 2010 by CMX

[jfchandler]

I'd take the comment below one step further, in saying that I've never seen any post here on TV where someone was charged any Thai bank fee for an over-the-counter withdrawal.

The Thai banks' 150 baht ATM fee on foreign card withdrawals has never been extended to counter withdrawals, although that is something a lot of us were wondering about when the ATM fee first was instituted.

In my view, the main difference between AEON ATM withdrawals, which are fee free, and counter withdrawals is the unpredictability factor, as one poster recounted above. Some banks and branches will do counter withdrawals, others will balk at doing them, and the withdrawal limits vary bank to bank. At least with the AEON ATMs, assuming they're working properly, you know exactly what to do and what will result.

More broadly, yes, this kind of stuff is Banking 101 for any tourist or expat coming to Thailand... unless you don't care how you spend your money...

I remember being shocked when I came to Thailand for the first time, just out of habit regularly used my Bank of America VISA logo ATM/debit card, and then saw (at the time some years ago) that BofA was charging me something like a $3 or $5 flat fee plus a percentage cut every time I withdrew funds... Never did that again....

Generally, however, over-the-counter transactions are direct fee free (no 150 baht).

[tijnebijn]

Moderators... hasn't this gone too far away from the orginal question?

MSPain

As a story develops , the posts can float away a bit , but we are still talking

about banking , some posters might have some questions which are bank related ,

some knowledgable posters are checking this thread , so I think its helpful .

If we turn and start to talk about Hamburgers again , I'll give you a green for your request .

[Drew Aitch]

A Burger Shop sells Burgers for a profit, and a bank sells money, also for a profit. Both businesses are in the business of making money from their products and services, so why shouldn't a bank charge for using the services they have on offer?

Yes, they've proved to be greedy, and yes, they can sometimes be misleading by the way they do things, but banks, just like their customers, are addicted to the biggest drug in the world, which is MONEY!

And cash, unlike many other things we buy, does not get sold off cheap to make way for new stock, nor has there ever been the option of buy $1 and get $1 free, as might be the case with a tube of Colgate toothpaste!

Aitch

[jfchandler]

You obviously have a short sense of history...

When ATMs were introduced, they were great for the banks because an ATM machine, including all its costs, can handle hundreds of transactions a day a whole lot less inexpensively than a human bank teller can.

If banks did away with ATMs and required all their customers to come inside the branches to conduct teller transactions, it would cost them a fortune compared to their costs with the current set-up today...

And yet, over the counter withdrawals even with foreign cards at Thai banks have no fee, and foreign card ATM withdrawals cost 150 baht.

Not to mention, until about two years ago, foreign card withdrawals in Thailand carried NO local fee at all, and then suddenly shot up overnight to the current 150 baht rate...with absolutely no justifications from the Thai banks as to the basis for the fee they set. At the time, they tried to blame VISA and MC for hiking their handling rates, which led MasterCard then in the BKK Post to state they in fact hadn't raised their rates....

I don't think most people using foreign cards here would mind if the Thai banks charged a fee in line with the local economy and prices, 25 or 30 baht and such... But the 150 baht fee overnight is just a blatant ripoff...

And this, at a time when lately in the news, there's been talk from the Bank of Thailand about the Thai banks needing to REDUCE the small fees they charge Thai account holders for various transfers and transactions.

No one's begrudging the banks the right to make a profit and run their businesses, but blatantly ripping off foreigners is another matter.

Lastly, the fee was imposed by a monopoly, the Thai Bankers Assn., and there's absolutely no competition over it... classic anti-trust, which would be illegal in the U.S. Here, who knows...

[Contractor]

You obviously have a short sense of history...

When ATMs were introduced, they were great for the banks because an ATM machine, including all its costs, can handle hundreds of transactions a day a whole lot less inexpensively than a human bank teller can.

If banks did away with ATMs and required all their customers to come inside the branches to conduct teller transactions, it would cost them a fortune compared to their costs with the current set-up today...

And yet, over the counter withdrawals even with foreign cards at Thai banks have no fee, and foreign card ATM withdrawals cost 150 baht.

Not to mention, until about two years ago, foreign card withdrawals in Thailand carried NO local fee at all, and then suddenly shot up overnight to the current 150 baht rate...with absolutely no justifications from the Thai banks as to the basis for the fee they set. At the time, they tried to blame VISA and MC for hiking their handling rates, which led MasterCard then in the BKK Post to state they in fact hadn't raised their rates....

I don't think most people using foreign cards here would mind if the Thai banks charged a fee in line with the local economy and prices, 25 or 30 baht and such... But the 150 baht fee overnight is just a blatant ripoff...

And this, at a time when lately in the news, there's been talk from the Bank of Thailand about the Thai banks needing to REDUCE the small fees they charge Thai account holders for various transfers and transactions.

No one's begrudging the banks the right to make a profit and run their businesses, but blatantly ripping off foreigners is another matter.

Lastly, the fee was imposed by a monopoly, the Thai Bankers Assn., and there's absolutely no competition over it... classic anti-trust, which would be illegal in the U.S. Here, who knows...

In the UK, some banks/building societies have introduced a lower limit for over the counter withdrawals in their branches. Nationwide, for example, say customers must use an ATM for withdrawals under £100. This is meant to be a queue-busting measure.

From 01 November, Nationwide are introducing a 2% charge for using their Visa debit card outside of the UK, with a further £1 charge for using an ATM. So taking 5000 baht from a charging ATM will cost about 300 baht in total.

Rgds

[CMX]

Well, I've understood and in my mind pretty much agreed with everything we've been advised by JFC, but I have to wonder about this idea.

Bankers, through a trade organization, all conspiring (one exception just now) to fleece tourists and foreigners of 150 baht for using what is for them the most inexpensive method of carrying out an exchange transaction? Surely not. Bankers are not like that - monopolizing. Consider the risks - what if someone were to attribute a loss in tourism to such an example of egregious avarice? I mean, 150 baht with a conspiracy is not "just business as usual" - is it?

It does seem to me that the fees were added less than two years ago though. Does anyone remember when these fees began to be imposed?

I mean, which color was running the government at the time, blue or green? Which government is it that stood by and allowed this anti-tourist routine to start?

[jfchandler]

The 150 baht fee on Thai bank ATM withdrawals using non-Thai bank cards began in spring 2009 with the major banks like BKK and SCB, and then slowly spread in the following months until all the Thai banks began charging the fee. UOB and Government Savings Bank were among the last to impose the fee, starting quite a few months later.

I have no idea what the particular motivation of the Thai Bankers Assn. was in putting forward this fee (other than making money, of course). But when the fee to use an ATM in Thailand is almost $4.50, and the price to use another banks' ATM in the U.S. usually doesn't exceed $3, something's not right in the world....

Through all the months of posting on the subject, in fact, I don't recall any ThaiVisa member posting a report re any other country in the world charging a higher standard fee for using ATMs with a card not belonging to that particular bank. Maybe there is one somewhere, but I haven't heard of it yet.

More broadly, there's quite a system here of double prices for Thais vs. foreigners...that extends to all kinds of things ranging from national park attendance fees to the prices hospitals charge for medical procedures. So there's already the idea at work that it's OK for foreigners to pay more...

Edited August 26, 2010 by jfchandler

[tijnebijn]

I agree with JFC , its just outrageous to charge 150 baht out of nothing , its almost

5 dollars for any tiny amount .

Doesn't surprise me either it might be in the thought of double pricing , they only want to see us anyway as cashcows , which we become less and less , they seem to forget if taking the also incredible resilient baht in mind , those cashcows show signs of not being able to reproduce their product anymore . Things in asia are changing fast but not their OLD way of handling things , and this eventually will hunt them .

[JimGant]

Bankers, through a trade organization, all conspiring (one exception just now) to fleece tourists and foreigners of 150 baht for using what is for them the most inexpensive method of carrying out an exchange transaction? Surely not

Actually, it makes total sense. I doubt if any tourists have canceled their vacation to Thailand after hearing about the 150 bt fee. Maybe some brought more travelers' checks -- or hit the ATM machine for a larger amount (thus fewer times) during their visit. But, the average tourist probably doesn't understand very much about the ATM fee structure -- but only sees a convenience -- while the more savvy realize the percentages they're paying in foreign transaction fees, plus add-on percentages and flat fees from their issuing financial institution, make the 150bt seem piddly. Either way, the Thai Bankers Association has a winner -- just like the airlines with their checked baggage fees.

And it's only the tourists who are getting fleeced (and, again, not to Thailand's detriment).

We who live here have opened accounts in Thai banks, and use ATM cards issued against those accounts, thus no 150 baht fee. In my case, I ACH money from the States, via BB NY, to my BB account in Thailand. Total cost, for a $10k transfer, is about .25% off the TT rate, and .55% off the interbank exchange rate (IER, the best exchange rate possible, afforded to the biggies like Visa and MC). If I used my Stateside ATM Card, which adds no fees of its own, but only passes on the 1% CIRRUS Foreign Transaction Fee, I'm still better off -- by nearly a half percent -- by sending money to Thailand, and using my Thai account as my money source. And this is even before I include the 150bt fee! So, it's a no-brainer, even before I consider the 150bt fee. And certainly a no-brainer for those whose farang bank charges fees in addition to the network foreign transaction fee.

So, if anything, the 150bt fee woke up the expat community as to the cost of using a farang ATM card over here. And, as said, a thorough examination of all fees would probably have shown the real expenses of using that farang ATM card were on the farang side.

[JFChandler is unique in that he has an E*Trade ATM card which has no fees, and totally reimburses the network foreign transaction fee. Thus, he realizes the IER rate, when he uses that card in the Aeon ATM machine. However, the nearest Aeon ATM machine is 55 kms away...... So, by using his neighborhood ATM machine, and paying 150bt, he actually pays about what I do to get 25000bt in my hand from my Stateside bank.]

Thus, the 150bt scheme seems sound. The majority of customers - Thai - aren't affected by it. Farang customers, at the malls and airports, have no choice but to pay the fee. And this is the reason for those machines -- they're cash cows, placed strategically to hit the non customer. Certainly, these machines aren't placed for the same reason they are next to the bank wall, where, indeed, they substitute for fewer tellers inside. They're there to make money. And before the 150bt fee, the $.25 per transaction payment to the ATM owner, reportedly shrinking, probably wasn't even covering repairs/restocking costs.

No, I don't know where the nearest Aeon ATM is. And if I did, I wouldn't use it, since I feel a lot safer using my local bank's machine, and knowing the bank manager, should my card get "eaten."

But, moot point -- since I don't use my farang ATM card over here.

[jfchandler]

Jim, I'm not sure I follow your comments below... as follows...

1. It's hardly "unique" to have an E*Trade Bank debit card that's fee-free and reimburses any Thai bank fees incurred. Anyone with an E*Trade checking account can qualify. And the same general situation applies to Charles Schwab Bank checking accounts, and a few others as well, as you're certainly well aware.

2. I'm lost about your 55 KMs comment.... Maybe it's a distance for you...but not for me here in BKK. There are at least a half dozen AEON ATMs within a short BTS or MRT ride from my home, and I take advantage of them regularly when I'm out shopping or doing other things...just pop by the ATM for some FREE cash...

3. I don't use my "neighborhood ATM machine" generally speaking, and when I do, it's only with one of several different accounts that fully reimburse any ATM fees charged by other banks.

No fee on the U.S. end. And no fee on the Thai end... That's the way to go, if a person can set it up right. And even for someone living upcountry, they could get by in the same way by using regular Thai bank ATMs via a U.S. card that reimburses those fees...

You know those of us much involved in this issue have had this discussion before: I could use the E*Trade and similar reimbursing cards all the time at regular Thai bank ATMs, pile up the 150 baht fees, and then have the U.S. banks reimburse them. But I don't want to abuse the benefit, so I make a little extra effort to arrange my plans to swing by an AEON ATM when need be, instead of just stopping at the local BKKB or SCB ATM. In BKK, if someone is out and around at all, it's really quite easy to do.

Your method of doing U.S. wire transfers is quite economical, of course. But as we've discussed before, it's not quite as good a value as using ATMs when you can have no fee on the U.S. end and no fee on the Thai end. It really depends on where someone is living and how their lifestyle is arranged.

[JFChandler is unique in that he has an E*Trade ATM card which has no fees, and totally reimburses the network foreign transaction fee. Thus, he realizes the IER rate, when he uses that card in the Aeon ATM machine.

However, the nearest Aeon ATM machine is 55 kms away...... So, by using his neighborhood ATM machine, and paying 150bt, he actually pays about what I do to get 25000bt in my hand from my Stateside bank.]