A Situation I Never Ever Want To Repeat!

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry this post is long, stick with it, I'm sure you'll find it of interest.

This week I had the misfortune to accompany an acquaintance to Changwattana to attempt to secure a new yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

This acquaintance met the financial requirements with documentation from his Embassy (UK, which BTW; holds people to a far higher standard than the b/s US scouts honor income verification letter). Never the less, we secured the documentation he needed.

Now whether it was senility, stupidity, laziness or a combination of all three in varying quantities; this person had let his current extension of stay lapse, by 3 MONTHS! He previously had 8 years of unbroken extensions of stay (never even leaving the glorious Land O Thais once in all that time)! Then, as he put it; this slight hiccup.. Now any way you spin it, contrary to his concept of hiccups, this is major screw-up on his part.

I knew going in it would not be a normal situation, but thought, <deleted>, Ive never tried it before, so I might as well give it a go and see what happened. Hed come over to my apartment the previous week and Id gotten all his ducks in a row as far as his paperwork, copies, photos, etc. I even sent him to health clinic above the Cabbages and Condoms restaurant to get a health certificate for 100 baht just to be safe. FYI: therere no health clinics out at the Changwattana Complex. (Note to someone, this would be a cash cow!!)

Despite my chiding for this person to dress for success obviously our opinions of what the word success entails were markedly different. He showed up at my door wearing the obligatory foreign ex-pat uniform of cargo shorts, flip flops, and a Chang Beer t-shirt (which thankfully wasnt a singlet). Needless to say I was less than thrilled at how things were starting out.

We got out to Changwattana bright and early.

First I did his 90 day reporting for him. It was late, and garnered the obligatory 2000baht fine, but even on an expired extension of stay, they took it, and gave me a new paper showing his next report date. (This only goes to show you, the people who do 90 day reporting at Changwattana dont care what visa youre on, or evidently even if you have a valid visa, just that you report to them every 90 days.)

I wanted to see if we could just pay the overstay fine at the Extensions of stay area, and go from there, but that got nixed by the first officer we saw. Off to the overstay fines paid here area to settle the 20,000baht fine. Then as the person was now technically visa-less, and his extension of stay chain had been broken I wasnt sure if we could actually get this sorted out there or not.

Leaving him parked in a chair, I went for a brief meeting of the minds with an Immigrations officer whose seen me there hundreds of times and either takes pity on me, or thinks I dont do to bad with the stuff I undertake, dunno which one.

Upon reviewing the paperwork, she said, we needed to apply for a NEW single entry Non-O visa, as this guy currently was, officially at least, visa-less. When I mentioned I thought they couldnt be had inside the country, she made a brief phone call, sent me to queue in a different area, and presto-change-o, we got it issued for 2000baht.

Then she sent me back to the extension of stay area. Now I was under the (obviously false assumption) that you needed to return when there was a month left on your current visa to apply for a yearly extension of stay. NOPE, another 1900baht later and he was in possession of a NEW years extension of stay. One which was GOOD FOR FIFTEEN months from the day we were there no less!!. 90 days on the new Non-O plus a yearly extension equals out to 15 months. WOW, go figure!!

I didnt even question it, as I was too frazzled by that time. Again despite my admonitions that the guy sits quiet as a church mouse when we were at the various Immigrations Officers desks, he continued to try to engage them in his horrific bar-thai, much to their consternation. One officer even asked me in thai if the guy had lost his mind or what? I told her I wasnt sure, but he was certainly old. FWIW; he was 62, so not too old, just really not the sharpest crayon in the box

It was the strangest thing Ive ever undertaken out there, and Ive tried a fair number of atypical things. I cant help thinking this somehow didnt go quite according to Hoyle. Now whether I am a familiar face out there and usually my stuff flies right thru without a glance or an extra copy required, OR, if a person doesnt rock the boat, is polite and deferential, maybe they actually have that much latitude to do what they want, with them being Immigrations Officers and all, I honestly dunno.

Like I said, as Im NOT contemplating doing this kinda hoop jumping in the near future (IF EVER), I dont really care. My acquaintance was tickled pink he got sorted without having to leave the country, (something his expert in resident friends said hed hafta do). He was also happy that he got 15 months more in thailand.

Of course adding it all up; he paid 25,900baht for something thatd cost 1900baht (if he reported on time, and applied for his extension of stay on time too, but hey, his money, NOT mine)!

Just thought Id offer this out as a whoda ever thunk it kinda story.

FWIW; it took nearly 5 hours to get this accomplished, but that was due in part to the lunch break, and queuing at the various and sundry areas.

Edited September 1, 2010 by tod-daniels

[dvdlock]

Interesting and informative post tod. Thank you.

Your acquaintance is lucky to know someone like yourself. I hope he at least bought you Dinner and a cold Beer to show his thanks.

[moe666]

It just shows you rules are made to be broken.

[Phuket Stan]

What a victory....do hope your friend has looked after you in the correct manner ....and that he is not blowing his mouth off too much

Edited September 1, 2010 by Phuket Stan

[rgs2001uk]

Sounds like a man of wealth and good taste, the de rigueur farang uniform, I trust he was also wearing the ubiquitous black socks, you should have given him one of your Kiss t shirts Todd, improve his street cred.

[moe666]

Other than the amt. of time you spent doing this it doesn't sound like it was to bad over all the immagration folks helped out a lot. Getting the o visa incountry was a nice touch, if you donot ask you donot get but would they have given it to your friend if he had been on his own.

To bad though about the US Embassy and the tinker toy income confirmation, why do you really care, I guess the luck of the draw place of birth.

[Suradit]

Other than the amt. of time you spent doing this it doesn't sound like it was to bad over all the immagration folks helped out a lot.

Yes it does seem that Immigrations bent over backwards to accommodate someone who couldn't follow some pretty basic rules. Kudos to them.

This ‘acquaintance’ met the financial requirements with documentation from his Embassy (UK, which BTW; holds people to a far higher standard than the b/s US ‘scouts honor’ income verification letter). Never the less, we secured the documentation he needed.

It's a shame the UK Embassy isn't as accommodative. Hard to understand how their distrust of their own citizens implies a higher standard, but then again they probably know best the sort of people they're dealing with, your acquaintance being a prime example.

[TaoNow]

This is an interesting post T-D, and I'm sure the ending surprised many TV members who thought your acquaintance would have to leave the country.

Just as an aside, I am not sure why you criticize the US Embassy's limited requirements for proof of retirement income.

In fact, theoretically, all one would need to satisfy Immo's requirement is a checking account in an off-shore bank account with a balance of at least 800K baht equivalent when visiting one's embassy.

Based on that checking account, you can state that you have the ability to pay yourself 65K baht per month for the coming year -- whether you actually intend to or not.

Immo regulations don't require you to transfer funds into Thailand during your retirement extension year (or to withdraw money from a local account if that's your method of meeting the 800K requirement).

So, there's realy no reason for a proof of pension requirement by the foreign embassy when the minium requirement is so simple to achieve.

[Mario2008]

This is an interesting post T-D, and I'm sure the ending surprised many TV members who thought your acquaintance would have to leave the country.

Just as an aside, I am not sure why you criticize the US Embassy's limited requirements for proof of retirement income.

In fact, theoretically, all one would need to satisfy Immo's requirement is a checking account in an off-shore bank account with a balance of at least 800K baht equivalent when visiting one's embassy.

Based on that checking account, you can state that you have the ability to pay yourself 65K baht per month for the coming year -- whether you actually intend to or not.

Immo regulations don't require you to transfer funds into Thailand during your retirement extension year (or to withdraw money from a local account if that's your method of meeting the 800K requirement).

So, there's realy no reason for a proof of pension requirement by the foreign embassy when the minium requirement is so simple to achieve.

That is not income but savings. If you want to use savings the money must be in a bank in Thailand.

[mca]

Sounds like a man of wealth and good taste, the de rigueur farang uniform, I trust he was also wearing the ubiquitous black socks, you should have given him one of your Kiss t shirts Todd, improve his street cred.

I recall when I used to extend in Nong Khai there was a "gentleman" there trying to extend his retirement visa. Obviously out to create a good impression he was wearing shorts and an old denim shirt unbuttoned to the waist revealing his not inconsiderable gut. Personal grooming suggested to me he'd spent the previous evening sleeping in a municipal skip.

The icing on the cake was his visa application. Admittedly he had managed to fill out an extension form. The slight fly in the ointment was that's all he'd done. He hadn't brought any supporting documentation at all. Just the form.

When the immigration officer tried to explain what was actually needed she was met with a few muttered oaths about "F...cking Thais" before he stormed out informing everybody within earshot about how he didn't know why he stayed here. A thought echoed by myself.

<deleted>.

Edited September 2, 2010 by mca

[jazzbo]

I think when a Thai IMM officer goes home to dinner, the spouse asks "... And how many extensions of stay did you get to deny today, dear?"

If the Thai IMM Officers really had the notion that the US Citizens' 'scouts-honor' income verification Letters were in large measure phony, they would have a field day asking for corroborating documetation which the US Consul tells the US Citizen before signing that the Thai officials do indeed have the right to so request.

[Lancelot]

Despite my chiding for this person to ‘dress for success’ obviously our opinions of what the word ‘success’ entails were markedly different. He showed up at my door wearing the obligatory foreign ex-pat “uniform” of cargo shorts, flip flops, and a Chang Beer t-shit

Good post. I'm a big beliver in "Dressing for Success" when interacting with Thai Immigration. I mentioned that in one post a while back and got some feed back in the vein of "Why dress up and stress yourself out?"

Err, uhm, putting on a pair of slacks and wearing a shirt with a collar is stressful?!?

[IMA_FARANG]

Regarding the U.S. embessy's lack of concern regarding a statement that you have an income of 65,000 Baht I expect that if it was ever questioned the U.S. embessy wouldn't attempt to defend the person whao made that statement.

In fact all the U.S. embessy would do is say that:

1. You appeared with the statement that you had an income of more than 65,000 Baht monthly.

2. They acknowleged that you made that statement to them.

3. That they could not verify that staement.

4. And that therefore they are not in any way responsible for any errors or deliberate misinterpretation caused by that statement.

5. And therefore, you, the person who made that statement are on your own. (And please don't bother us anymore,sir).

And that's a LONG way from "certifying" your income statement as is done by the U.K. embessy. Knowing the U.S. embessy as I do, I wouldn't expect them to stand behind you if you were challenged to prove your income.

That's why they are so unconcerned about your income staement. The know it means nothing, and they won't stand behind it if and when challenged (the U.S. embessy I mean)

Edited September 2, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[TAWP]

Despite my chiding for this person to ‘dress for success’ obviously our opinions of what the word ‘success’ entails were markedly different. He showed up at my door wearing the obligatory foreign ex-pat “uniform” of cargo shorts, flip flops, and a Chang Beer t-shit

This is just so typical.

And then people don't understand why they get 'targeted'...

[JimGant]

Tod,

You say:

When I mentioned I thought they [Non Imm O visa] couldn’t be had inside the country,

and.....

Now I was under the (obviously false assumption) that you needed to return when there was a month left on your current visa to apply for a yearly extension of stay

But, in THIS THREAD from a few weeks back, you say:

I have personally seen it go both ways out at Changwattana. Sometimes they'll do the visa conversion (2000baht), AND the yearly extension (1900baht) in one felled swoop.

Are there two Tod-Daniels posting here.....or did you have a brain fart?

[samtam]

Good for you tod-daniels! And as mentioned, your friend very lucky to know you. And good for Immigration too. It sounds as though were very accommodating in the circumstances.

Edited September 2, 2010 by samtam

[Pib]

Your friend was very lucky...and lucky he had you to help. It could have easily went the other way and the friend could be hustling to leave the country and start all over in getting a visa. Sure hope he don't take his lucky break lightly.

[moe666]

Your friend was very lucky...and lucky he had you to help. It could have easily went the other way and the friend could be hustling to leave the country and start all over in getting a visa. Sure hope he don't take his lucky break lightly.

The friend probaly didn't see any luck at all, figured he was spot on and what a dynamic personality I have to get a visa in country. if you cannot keep you extension current (excepting sickness) seems like you have lost something.

[OJAS]

I recall when I used to extend in Nong Khai there was a "gentleman" there trying to extend his retirement visa. Obviously out to create a good impression he was wearing shorts and an old denim shirt unbuttoned to the waist revealing his not inconsiderable gut. Personal grooming suggested to me he'd spent the previous evening sleeping in a municipal skip.

The icing on the cake was his visa application. Admittedly he had managed to fill out an extension form. The slight fly in the ointment was that's all he'd done. He hadn't brought any supporting documentation at all. Just the form.

When the immigration officer tried to explain what was actually needed she was met with a few muttered oaths about "F...cking Thais" before he stormed out informing everybody within earshot about how he didn't know why he stayed here. A thought echoed by myself.

<deleted>.

I hope that he had to deal with the same officer when he did eventually return with the required docs!

[SmokeandIce]

I knew going in it would not be a normal situation, but thought, <deleted>, I've never tried it before, so I might as well give it a go and see what happened. He'd come over to my apartment the previous week and I'd gotten all his ducks in a row as far as his paperwork, copies, photos, etc. I even sent him to health clinic above the Cabbages and Condoms restaurant to get a health certificate for 100 baht just to be safe. FYI: there're no health clinics out at the Changwattana Complex. (Note to someone, this would be a cash cow!!)

I am confused by the above quote...Over many posts, I thought it was established that there was no need for a health certificate any longer?

[Tod Daniels]

<SNIPPED OUT MY QUOTE, WHICH YOU DIDN'T QUOTE>

I am confused by the above quote...Over many posts, I thought it was established that there was no need for a health certificate any longer

My 'acquaintance' had broken his EIGHT years of consecutive extensions of stay based on retirement, and was at least "in theory", applying for a brand spanking NEW retirement extension of stay.

Now sometimes the very first time you apply for a yearly extension of stay out at Changwattana they want to see a health certificate (NOT for subsequent extensions, just the very first time). Then again sometimes they don't (I have yet to find ANY rhyme or reason to their methodology).

I just wanted it to "fly", so thought &lt;deleted&gt;; it's 100 baht, might as well have one.

FWIW; they took it rather than handed it back as a document not needed (like they normally do).

Now was it really 'required'? Again, I dunno, and at this point I don't care.

Edited September 3, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Tod Daniels]

Tod,

<SNIPPED OUT MY QUOTES>

Are there two Tod-Daniels posting here.....or did you have a brain fart?

Hey! go easy there, at 51 y/o, I 'resemble' that remark!!

NO, (unless I am sorely mistaken, which I could be) that was in reference to a visa conversion from a "Tourist Visa" or a "Visa Exempt Entry” from a first world country, where they do both things at once; convert what ever ”visa” or “visa exempt” stamp they’re on to a Non-Immigrant Type-O, and THEN issue the yearly extension of stay. BUT the fact of the matter is; those people WERE actually allowed to be here.

My 'acquaintance', after paying his over-stay, was essentially 'visa-less', and HE currently held NO visa AT ALL to be here! (To be honest, I dunno why they didn't make him get the "emergency 7 days to leave thailand" visa and start outside the country with his cluster-fuc_k)!

Hey man , I screw around with visas as a HOBBY (because I'm bored here) . It is not a source of income like 'real' forum sponsors, so gimme a break, now and again .

I sincerely hope for all concerned, that there’s only one poser <sic> errr, poster, known as Tod Daniels on the T/V Forum.

[Tod Daniels]

You should have given him one of your Kiss t shirts Todd, improve his street cred.

FWIW: my KISS tour shirts cost anywhere from 1000baht to 1400baht depending on how much the band KISS wanted to screw fans at a particular concert . These are not the b/s KISS shirts you see for sale here!

Not that anyone other than me cares; but I’ve collected KISS tour shirts for well over 30 years and have 120+ shirts.

I’ve even taken the ‘super-rare’ ones to MBK and had them copied, so I can retire the original shirt, yet still wear one with that pattern . Am I a crazy KISS fan, err, yes!

Do I wear KISS shirts when I go to Changwattana, NO frickin’ way, not even when I go to turn in a 90 day reporting paper. (Although I do wear a KISS belt buckle and hat)..

[wpcoe]

I wonder if there is some unwritten agreement to take pity on we poor, forgetful old folk on retirement extensions who let them expire.

A couple years ago, I somehow had it in my head that my extension expired in October, and in September when I started assembling documents and making copies, I was mortified to see my extension had expired on 04 Sept!

When I rushed to Pattaya Immigrations (as it was called then), I was practically sh*tting my pants worried about what would happen. It was treated as a non-event. Basically: "Go to this desk and pay Bxxx (I forget now how much), and then come back to this desk and we'll process your new extension." The worse thing that happened was when I paid the overstay fine, the lady there grinned and said: "Don't do this again," and then laughed. Like your acquaintance, I was technically visa-/extension-less but they were so blasé about it.

Maybe they could see my terror, and thought "this guy's suffered enough, lets' make it easy for him." Don't know, but I am eternally grateful for their professionalism and courtesy in handling the situation.