Chiang Mai Businesses Closing Or For Sale

[anonymouse]

There are many businessmen in CM whom I am sure could make some

helpful comments once they see the thread is serious.

Her parents are supportive as is her boyfriend. I don't want to see

her business close down. She has worked long and hard 24/7 and, like

most Thais, not for herself but because she feels a need to make her

parents secure as they get older.

Many people are giving her a morale boost whenever they can. I hope

some comments on the thread may help too but I'm not interested in views that are off topic or bickering.

How do we suggest she avoids closure of her Chiangmai business. She can't afford expensive advertising and has the usual gifts that she has to pay.

Personally my advise would be for her to stick it out to high season [if there is one] and if she still isn't making money to pack it in.

I think you need to provide more details about the business eg who does she cater for locals or tourists, what is her unique selling point?

[Thighlander]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

"I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country."

This is just pure speculation on your part. Mind your own business anyway.

SO they have 16 Thais on the payroll, and are doing all the dirty work themselves?

How fair is that to the competitors, who are above the table?

Just how much coffee can a place sell, when it is generally hot enough to cook an egg on the sidewalk?

[jayinoz]

There are many businessmen in CM whom I am sure could make some

helpful comments once they see the thread is serious.

Her parents are supportive as is her boyfriend. I don't want to see

her business close down. She has worked long and hard 24/7 and, like

most Thais, not for herself but because she feels a need to make her

parents secure as they get older.

Many people are giving her a morale boost whenever they can. I hope

some comments on the thread may help too but I'm not interested in views that are off topic or bickering.

How do we suggest she avoids closure of her Chiangmai business. She can't afford expensive advertising and has the usual gifts that she has to pay.

Personally my advise would be for her to stick it out to high season [if there is one] and if she still isn't making money to pack it in.

I think you need to provide more details about the business eg who does she cater for locals or tourists, what is her unique selling point?

Same here- I do not know what sort of advice u wish us to provide.... From those of us whom have operated in Cmai LT...

High season is approaching- so it is a give me that she sticks out high season for a profit- no profit in High Season then forget about it and move on... I predict the one asking the Q's is being financially inconvenienced or else would not give a dam.

Either way we are happy to help if provided with more details- myself a decade in CMai biz. Many others with far more than me will help u out if u are straight forward.

We can smell a Farang in trouble via financing his TG a million miles away after so long.

Cheers

Jay

[jan1van1hooten]

the problem with most cafe/restaurant businesses whether native or expat is that they are not run with any imagination.

they usually use the same model. if it works for them, it''s luck, but if it does not, the owners are unable to change.

in many cases, owners have a specific goal in mind and even if the market does not suppor that type of restaurant, the owners still cling to the same dream. this is a cause for failure. For example-- there was one owner who wanted a formal restaurant in which people would come for the full dinner. that's how he thought he would make his money. Instead, he got a lot of college students sitting for hours with their laptops. Luckily his location was what saved him, but if he had not been in prime location he would have gone under.

owners should be willing to experiment and change.

[getgoin]

A Thai friend of mine is struggling with her restaurant. She opened last year in a soi with three established restaurants. Unfortunately a Thai business trait.

She did however concentrate on what could be her unique selling points and thought, with her French boyfriend and me, how she could offer something different. He has financed her up till now

There are times when she seems to be winning against the struggle but there is unfair competition from the other restaurants now who are encouraging the police to make life difficult. Her family think she should just pack it in.

Our suggestion - she has a 3 year lease - is not to invest more but to ride it out and keep an eye open for a possible sale. To walk away would be very Thai but one needs to thinkm of the not inconsiderable investment already made.

Any positive ideas.

But PLEASE could I ask the usual stalkers on this thread to refrain from commenting and go elsewhere.

It is very difficult to change what someone has been doing or is doing without it looking like something is going wrong with the business. I would suggest something as simple as a menu change, to scale back the always endless Thai/Western typical menu and to do a limited amount of dishes but do them all well. Something that would also help would be a modest price decrease. This would position the restaurant to start fresh and build. Nightly specials, for example a spaghetti night or a roast pork night at a really cheap price might help. Keeping the seats filled even if the profit margins are smaller is always a better feeling than an empty restaurant.

I'm sorry but no one is probably going to buy the place unless it is really cheap. There are dozens of the smaller pubs and restaurants for sale at the moment.

I also wanted to say that there is no "usual gifts" when conducting a legitimate restaurant except for the token red box which for a small place would be 500 Baht a month. There are others who routinely cruise for donations but their advances should be politely rebuffed and/or the owner should ask for a copy of an ID card for tax purposes. This usually sees them hit the door. If a payment is being made for looking the other way, such as not enforcing parking restrictions, that is another matter.

Advertising would not help this place. What would help is cheap drinks and cheap beer. Make the beer cheap, get everyone in having a few and sell them a plate of spaghetti. Once the ball starts rolling it can usually roll by itself. The trick is to get it rolling.

Edited September 24, 2010 by getgoin

[anonymouse]

A Thai friend of mine is struggling with her restaurant. She opened last year in a soi with three established restaurants. Unfortunately a Thai business trait.

She did however concentrate on what could be her unique selling points and thought, with her French boyfriend and me, how she could offer something different. He has financed her up till now

There are times when she seems to be winning against the struggle but there is unfair competition from the other restaurants now who are encouraging the police to make life difficult. Her family think she should just pack it in.

Our suggestion - she has a 3 year lease - is not to invest more but to ride it out and keep an eye open for a possible sale. To walk away would be very Thai but one needs to thinkm of the not inconsiderable investment already made.

Any positive ideas.

But PLEASE could I ask the usual stalkers on this thread to refrain from commenting and go elsewhere.

It is very difficult to change what someone has been doing or is doing without it looking like something is going wrong with the business. I would suggest something as simple as a menu change, to scale back the always endless Thai/Western typical menu and to do a limited amount of dishes but do them all well. Something that would also help would be a modest price decrease. This would position the restaurant to start fresh and build. Nightly specials, for example a spaghetti night or a roast pork night at a really cheap price might help. Keeping the seats filled even if the profit margins are smaller is always a better feeling than an empty restaurant.

I'm sorry but no one is probably going to buy the place unless it is really cheap. There are dozens of the smaller pubs and restaurants for sale at the moment.

I also wanted to say that there is no "usual gifts" when conducting a legitimate restaurant except for the token red box which for a small place would be 500 Baht a month. There are others who routinely cruise for donations but their advances should be politely rebuffed and/or the owner should ask for a copy of an ID card for tax purposes. This usually sees them hit the door. If a payment is being made for looking the other way, such as not enforcing parking restrictions, that is another matter.

Advertising would not help this place. What would help is cheap drinks and cheap beer. Make the beer cheap, get everyone in having a few and sell them a plate of spaghetti. Once the ball starts rolling it can usually roll by itself. The trick is to get it rolling.

As usual excellent advise from Getgoing, a good example of this would be sunnee's cafe down the same soi as the veerachai, she does a daily special and sticks to a small menu of well prepared favourites - she seems to keep a regular clientle, she does have the bonus of catering to the veeerachai residents as well.

[cmsally]

What is the approx. location? Difficult to give advise not knowing. One of the problems with restaurants is having to buy X amount of products and not all keep well. She could be looking for ways to care of this as well as using the place she rents to produce some sort of base income to cover expenses.

ie. if she has frontage this can often be let to someone as a stall etc. Or she could have a small stall to produce something eyecatching to prospective clientele that would be desirable to passing traffic. Preferably in the food line but not necessarily so.

[Mapguy]

No wonder business is bad! Before a spellbound audience in a popular TV bar, a local barfly described in gripping detail recently how he just barely managed to save five bhat at Tesco-Lotus. "So I'm sitting in the car, literally turning the key in the ignition, when it hits me," he wrote, pausing briefly for effect. "They charged me for the free teeth-whitening stuff, even though I bought three tubes of Crest like the coupon said. Thank God I remembered to keep the receipt." He then further awed his listeners by producing the very receipt from his wallet and pointing to where the manager had initialed to authorize the refund. His listeners fled the premises leaving the owner to cry in his beer.

[Ricardo]

Well 5 Baht is 500 whole Satang, you must remember. Many a mickle makes a muckle !

and, not for the first time, I must bemoan the lack of a 'smilie' wearing a kilt !

[HarryPalmer]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

[gotlost]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

Just when you though it was safe to go into the water.

[philw]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

Just when you though it was safe to go into the water.

Good one.

I owe you a beer.

[gotlost]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

Just when you though it was safe to go into the water.

Good one.

I owe you a beer.

A Green Plus Mark Hit will do.

[Beetlejuice]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

More bad news if this information is accuate.

Has anyone ever considered creating some sort of business consortium? Or what about a management committee run by those with marketing experience where these matters can be discussed and analysed? Better then the present cutthroat competition and who is it going to be next.

Each business owner that joins the consortium scheme would vote in who they wish to represent them on the committee and the committee would decide who could join the consortium.

Just a thought, that’s all.

[caf]

There are many businessmen in CM whom I am sure could make some

helpful comments once they see the thread is serious.

Her parents are supportive as is her boyfriend. I don't want to see

her business close down. She has worked long and hard 24/7 and, like

most Thais, not for herself but because she feels a need to make her

parents secure as they get older.

Many people are giving her a morale boost whenever they can. I hope

some comments on the thread may help too but I'm not interested in views that are off topic or bickering.

How do we suggest she avoids closure of her Chiangmai business. She can't afford expensive advertising and has the usual gifts that she has to pay.

Personally my advise would be for her to stick it out to high season [if there is one] and if she still isn't making money to pack it in.

I think you need to provide more details about the business eg who does she cater for locals or tourists, what is her unique selling point?

Same here- I do not know what sort of advice u wish us to provide.... From those of us whom have operated in Cmai LT...

High season is approaching- so it is a give me that she sticks out high season for a profit- no profit in High Season then forget about it and move on... I predict the one asking the Q's is being financially inconvenienced or else would not give a dam.

Either way we are happy to help if provided with more details- myself a decade in CMai biz. Many others with far more than me will help u out if u are straight forward.

We can smell a Farang in trouble via financing his TG a million miles away after so long.

Cheers

Jay

Kep smelling then. I'm just helping a friend and ger boyfriend - no financial incentive. I note you give no real advice.

[caf]

A Thai friend of mine is struggling with her restaurant. She opened last year in a soi with three established restaurants. Unfortunately a Thai business trait.

She did however concentrate on what could be her unique selling points and thought, with her French boyfriend and me, how she could offer something different. He has financed her up till now

There are times when she seems to be winning against the struggle but there is unfair competition from the other restaurants now who are encouraging the police to make life difficult. Her family think she should just pack it in.

Our suggestion - she has a 3 year lease - is not to invest more but to ride it out and keep an eye open for a possible sale. To walk away would be very Thai but one needs to thinkm of the not inconsiderable investment already made.

Any positive ideas.

But PLEASE could I ask the usual stalkers on this thread to refrain from commenting and go elsewhere.

It is very difficult to change what someone has been doing or is doing without it looking like something is going wrong with the business. I would suggest something as simple as a menu change, to scale back the always endless Thai/Western typical menu and to do a limited amount of dishes but do them all well. Something that would also help would be a modest price decrease. This would position the restaurant to start fresh and build. Nightly specials, for example a spaghetti night or a roast pork night at a really cheap price might help. Keeping the seats filled even if the profit margins are smaller is always a better feeling than an empty restaurant.

I'm sorry but no one is probably going to buy the place unless it is really cheap. There are dozens of the smaller pubs and restaurants for sale at the moment.

I also wanted to say that there is no "usual gifts" when conducting a legitimate restaurant except for the token red box which for a small place would be 500 Baht a month. There are others who routinely cruise for donations but their advances should be politely rebuffed and/or the owner should ask for a copy of an ID card for tax purposes. This usually sees them hit the door. If a payment is being made for looking the other way, such as not enforcing parking restrictions, that is another matter.

Advertising would not help this place. What would help is cheap drinks and cheap beer. Make the beer cheap, get everyone in having a few and sell them a plate of spaghetti. Once the ball starts rolling it can usually roll by itself. The trick is to get it rolling.

She's not aimimg at the cheap beer market, never has. But we are considering all options at the moment - currently looking at a swot analysis. She has had a few good nights

[caf]

What is the approx. location? Difficult to give advise not knowing. One of the problems with restaurants is having to buy X amount of products and not all keep well. She could be looking for ways to care of this as well as using the place she rents to produce some sort of base income to cover expenses.

ie. if she has frontage this can often be let to someone as a stall etc. Or she could have a small stall to produce something eyecatching to prospective clientele that would be desirable to passing traffic. Preferably in the food line but not necessarily so.

Good points. Much advice from many and we are considering everything. Will let you know where it stands after a weekend meeting.

[elektrified]

I see on facebook that Guitarman is for sale.

Just when you though it was safe to go into the water.

That's really too bad. They are nice people and they work dam_n hard!

[tijnebijn]

Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established and doing well. Why this is so I have no idea. If one Thai is running a successfull laundry then another Thai will start a laundry only a few doors away instead of picking an area that doesn't have a laundry. Or, there will be two 7-11 shops within a block of each other. The same goes for restaurants. And, it's not that one offers anything new or interesting.

As this poster points out very well and clearly , I found interesting to read . Thais copying a business already established . We have got that problem at the moment .

My wife runs a small but fairly successful business , which she works at 24/7 for the last four years , she designs , tailors and rents out weddingclothes and partydresses .

Now we got a new neighbour who instantly ' changed 'her business within 1 month to exactly the same businesslike as my wife does , copying everything whatever kind of customers enter in our shop , unbelievable it is and it is next door not even a couple of places further .

First we just did nice , but it seems we only get a cold face attack back from them , asof we are the badguys , anyways we are still running profit cause of the service and high quality my wife stands for , but loose some income on new potential customers who get confused where to go .

We are thinking to move out next year , not only because of our new surpise neighbour , also cause we need a change of place , for ourselves to get more oxygen and for our customers to get better service , the only thing is we need to get our customers with us ...

[Ulysses G.]

Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established...

A lot of expats seem to have adopted the same business model. It is something for anyone trying to start a unique and needed service to consider if they actually want to make a profit, rather than just ending up with an expensive hobby that might break even at most.

[tijnebijn]

Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established...

A lot of expats seem to have adopted the same business model. It is something for anyone trying to start a unique and needed service to consider if they actually want to make a profit, rather than just ending up with an expensive hobby that might break even at most.

sad but so very true , you were unique with your business model , genious in fact ,

but cause business is hard to accomplish I do understand why they feel the need to , but bit more respect from those who do might be on place , they should go and create another service within the same kind of business , not that anybody will listen to that .

guess those are lucky we are no Thais , think they might have different ways when somebody tries to take all their income without mercy , we might feel like it but better we should

stay original and wait the other will fail eventually , do see that alot too , they don;t offer better at all .

kudos to you Ulysses .

[caf]

Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established...

A lot of expats seem to have adopted the same business model. It is something for anyone trying to start a unique and needed service to consider if they actually want to make a profit, rather than just ending up with an expensive hobby that might break even at most.

sad but so very true , you were unique with your business model , genious in fact ,

but cause business is hard to accomplish I do understand why they feel the need to , but bit more respect from those who do might be on place , they should go and create another service within the same kind of business , not that anybody will listen to that .

guess those are lucky we are no Thais , think they might have different ways when somebody tries to take all their income without mercy , we might feel like it but better we should

stay original and wait the other will fail eventually , do see that alot too , they don;t offer better at all .

kudos to you Ulysses .

I didn't understand all your reply. Was it meant to be anti-Thai business:

"lucky we are no Thais , think they might have different ways when somebody tries to take all their income without mercy " Not clear.

[Ulysses G.]

Anyone know what is up with Charlie's Fish and Chips? Did he change location again?

[november222]

Anyone know what is up with Charlie's Fish and Chips? Did he change location again?

Closed!!

[gotlost]

Anyone know what is up with Charlie's Fish and Chips? Did he change location again?

Closed!!

Sorry to hear this but not surprising. Sign of the times.

[Greenside]

And there's a "chip shop" for sale in Chiang Moi road posted in the TV Classifieds today too.

[november222]

Anyone know what is up with Charlie's Fish and Chips? Did he change location again?

Closed!!

Sorry to hear this but not surprising. Sign of the times.

paul weller quote (style council - all gone away)

"the sign says closed, its a sign of the times....."

[Beetlejuice]

A couple of questions, if anyone has the answers?

Is this slump only affecting the farang businesses or are the Thai businesses affected also?

Is Chiang Mai the worst hit city as all seems to be in full swing here in Bangkok?

[thequick7]

We will not see the Maccas, KFC, etc close up shop in the near future. Strength of business plan and systems always gets these guys through.

The Mike's Original seems to be dropping off now IMO, especially over at Central on Heuy Gow KFC was absolutely packed as normal. Yet Mike's never had a single customers for the whole day I saw it.

The strong baht is definately hurting most- as a 200bt does not seem a low cost anymore. All about perceptions, the shock of seeing 29.xx bt next to the US dollar made me think 'How low will it go'. US not looking bright and rosy in the near future.

Is the strong baht a matter of this country (Thai) being held by the belief that they are doing better than most other countries. It will be a very light HIGH Season if the baht remain high- whilst their neighbours and Tourism competitor do not rise.

If you making your money in baht at the moment you are definately well in the money. Wished i changed over a lot more a few months ago, as it HURTS everytime I visit the exchange booth or ATM now.

Like many I suspect we been holding OFF on receiving any serious money as the baht was 20% better only a few months ago. So we are stuck on a price in our mind. If we are used to US dollar at 35bt then we do not wish to take 29bt unless an emergency. So that means we sacrifice visits to shops and resturants in the ST for what we hope will be LT gains. Well that the way I play it now- much like the stockmarket.

Yet who is to say it will not drop another 40% over the next year- now that has probably made many expats crap themselves- it possible yet not probable.

:jap:

I agree with your assessment although what I think you meant to say was that 200 THB does not seem like a high cost anymore. You almost can't do anything with 100 THB anymore. Sure you can buy a beer, put gas in a motorcycle, buy a meal at a cheap Thai restaurant, etc., but that's about it. I'm sure people on this forum have noticed how much Thais are spending when they go grocery shopping at Carrefour, Tesco Lotus, etc. It ain't like it used to be years ago here...

no, i'm pretty sure he meant "low"cost...

[SausageKing]

We will not see the Maccas, KFC, etc close up shop in the near future. Strength of business plan and systems always gets these guys through.

The Mike's Original seems to be dropping off now IMO, especially over at Central on Heuy Gow KFC was absolutely packed as normal. Yet Mike's never had a single customers for the whole day I saw it.

The strong baht is definately hurting most- as a 200bt does not seem a low cost anymore. All about perceptions, the shock of seeing 29.xx bt next to the US dollar made me think 'How low will it go'. US not looking bright and rosy in the near future.

Is the strong baht a matter of this country (Thai) being held by the belief that they are doing better than most other countries. It will be a very light HIGH Season if the baht remain high- whilst their neighbours and Tourism competitor do not rise.

If you making your money in baht at the moment you are definately well in the money. Wished i changed over a lot more a few months ago, as it HURTS everytime I visit the exchange booth or ATM now.

Like many I suspect we been holding OFF on receiving any serious money as the baht was 20% better only a few months ago. So we are stuck on a price in our mind. If we are used to US dollar at 35bt then we do not wish to take 29bt unless an emergency. So that means we sacrifice visits to shops and resturants in the ST for what we hope will be LT gains. Well that the way I play it now- much like the stockmarket.

Yet who is to say it will not drop another 40% over the next year- now that has probably made many expats crap themselves- it possible yet not probable.

:jap:

I agree with your assessment although what I think you meant to say was that 200 THB does not seem like a high cost anymore. You almost can't do anything with 100 THB anymore. Sure you can buy a beer, put gas in a motorcycle, buy a meal at a cheap Thai restaurant, etc., but that's about it. I'm sure people on this forum have noticed how much Thais are spending when they go grocery shopping at Carrefour, Tesco Lotus, etc. It ain't like it used to be years ago here...

no, i'm pretty sure he meant "low"cost...

I feel after the problems with the red and yellow shirts that chiang mai has not been the same for business. many restaurants have been hit hard and high rents not help. our work in chiang mai is down 25% because some restaurants have had to close. However bangkok orders have gone up ?? we are lucky as we not have high over heads. my advice is if your thinking to open a new business then do you home work twice. sausage king.