The Problem With Thai Face

[wintermute]

Of course we know about cultural differences and in this case, we're really talking about societies that deem peace and harmony to be a high priority. This is not just Asia, but Latin America, Arabic, and various other collectivist societies. But nevermind all that, this thread is about Thai-bashing. You should know that.

Yep those are the peace loving hot spots for sure.

There are many countries in those regions that are actually safer to live in than the U.S. For example the crime rate is actually very low in many non sharia practicing countries in the middle east.

[canuckamuck]

Of course we know about cultural differences and in this case, we're really talking about societies that deem peace and harmony to be a high priority. This is not just Asia, but Latin America, Arabic, and various other collectivist societies. But nevermind all that, this thread is about Thai-bashing. You should know that.

Yep those are the peace loving hot spots for sure.

There are many countries in those regions that are actually safer to live in than the U.S. For example the crime rate is actually very low in many non sharia practicing countries in the middle east.

Well I be scared witless to hang out in most places in the US after dark so you aren't saying much. America has some big urban issues for sure.

But we are talking about the concept of face in Thailand. To say it doesn't exist is silly, Thais people don't deny it exists. You can call it Thai bashing if that makes you feel superior, but I would say people here are just sharing their observations. Do westerners have pride (face) issues? Of course they do, but it shows up in a different way, hence the discussion.

[wintermute]

Of course we know about cultural differences and in this case, we're really talking about societies that deem peace and harmony to be a high priority. This is not just Asia, but Latin America, Arabic, and various other collectivist societies. But nevermind all that, this thread is about Thai-bashing. You should know that.

Yep those are the peace loving hot spots for sure.

There are many countries in those regions that are actually safer to live in than the U.S. For example the crime rate is actually very low in many non sharia practicing countries in the middle east.

Well I be scared witless to hang out in most places in the US after dark so you aren't saying much. America has some big urban issues for sure.

But we are talking about the concept of face in Thailand. To say it doesn't exist is silly, Thais people don't deny it exists. You can call it Thai bashing if that makes you feel superior, but I would say people here are just sharing their observations. Do westerners have pride (face) issues? Of course they do, but it shows up in a different way, hence the discussion.

That's great but i've never disagreed that face exists. I just don't think it's as strict or pervasive as people think with your average Thai person. Also, some of the arbitrary things that people chalk up as "face" in this thread appear to be coming from people who really don't seem to understand their interaction with Thai people well.

[MrRichard2009]

"

Your stereotype is just as bad as the people you are complaining about. There is no one size fits all. To say there are not cultural differences between western societies and Asian societies is just plain asinine. I'm sorry, but there is such a thing as Thai face. Only the ignorant deny it. However, that does not make the Thais either bad or good. It's just a culture thing. Smart businessmen learn to deal with it. Those that don't seldom succeed, and most often they have trouble keeping staff."

The question or Topic is about if face causes some inordinate amount of lack of personal responsibility and since you find the same thing worldwide all I am saying is the answer is no it does not ...... No one said face doesn't exist or cultural differences don't exist. I think you would find the lack of responsibility in Russia or in some African countries actually MUCH higher than Thailand for example.

Edited September 13, 2010 by MrRichard2009

[MrRichard2009]

Here is a funny story about the lack of responsibility is the USA .... I owned a chain or Pizza Parlors and I had a cashier who was stealing, So I asked him to stop and put a camera pointed at the cash drawer ..... Didn't stop him so I fired him for stealing naturally ..... He got a lawyer and tried to sue me for wrongful termination because he never signed anything saying stealing was against company policy ! ,,,,,, true story ..... he lost naturally

[IanForbes]

A funny story about Thai face. A farang friend and I had arrived in Uttaradit after dark and were looking for a specific hotel. I had only been through Uttaradit once before when being dropped off at the bus station.. I didn't know my way around; nor did I have a map. My friend was driving and had been to Uttaradit several times, but never after dark. He thought he could find the hotel easily when we got to Tesco, but was a little confused by the angled streets. As it turned out, we were only a few blocks from the hotel we were looking for, but after dark everything looks different.

We started asking Thai people where the hotel was located. Most Thais couldn't speak English and just shrugged their shoulders. And, Our Thai is very limited. However, the few Thais that COULD speak English all tried to help us, ... But unfortunately, they all sent us off in different directions. In one case it was to an entirely different village 10 km away. Because there was some Buddhist event in the village the Thais ASSUMED that is where we were asking to go.

Eventually we retraced our route back to where we had been an hour before. I asked my friend to stop at a gas station where we did find a Thai who could speak English and understood what we were asking. He gave us good directions and within 10 minutes we were at the hotel we were looking for. All the other 'helpfull" Thais didn't want to lose face by saying they didn't understand our question. It was a funny experience and kind of enjoyable. The following morning I went for a walk and discovered where we had gone wrong. It was only a matter of a few blocks, and entering the right road but from the wrong direction.

As someone once said... getting there is half the fun. I now try to carry a GPS when I travel in Thailand.

[thunder30101]

Of course it is all the falangs fault, this is thailand.

[IanForbes]

Of course it is all the falangs fault, this is thailand.

It MIGHT be the farang's fault if they don't take the time to understand Thai culture. Before I ever did business in a foreign country I would certainly learn their customs and ALL the rules and regulations. Doing "Do dilligence" has always been a wise decision. I don't think "Thai face" is anything to get upset about. It's just something that needs to be understood.

I've wandered all over Thailand, including the seedier parts of Bangkok and Pattaya, and can't say I've ever felt threatened. That is far more than I can say about the Philippines or many cities in the USA.

[phetaroi]

Welcome to the thai visa double standards. You have a lot of aging expats who fled their homeland because they couldn't actually hack it but speak of it in lofty utopian terms like all westerners are moral saints. When other farang act like ... it's an individual flaw however if a Thai person does it suddenly it becomes an example of their race or nationality used to generalize about the people as a whole.

You mean sort of like what you just did, in reverse? I only stayed for a little over a year, but I was an American expat who was fully retired. Before retirement I was very successful in my field. I can see all the faults in America, and am willing to discuss them openly. That doesn't mean that Thailand doesn't have its faults, as well.

Pointing out the double standard isn't maintaining the same position in reverse. Actually i've never said that all expats were one way or another but only pointed out that there is definitely a trend in how opinions are expressed on here and the demographic involved.

No, what you said is directly above.

[wintermute]

Welcome to the thai visa double standards. You have a lot of aging expats who fled their homeland because they couldn't actually hack it but speak of it in lofty utopian terms like all westerners are moral saints. When other farang act like ... it's an individual flaw however if a Thai person does it suddenly it becomes an example of their race or nationality used to generalize about the people as a whole.

You mean sort of like what you just did, in reverse? I only stayed for a little over a year, but I was an American expat who was fully retired. Before retirement I was very successful in my field. I can see all the faults in America, and am willing to discuss them openly. That doesn't mean that Thailand doesn't have its faults, as well.

Pointing out the double standard isn't maintaining the same position in reverse. Actually i've never said that all expats were one way or another but only pointed out that there is definitely a trend in how opinions are expressed on here and the demographic involved.

No, what you said is directly above.

Yeah and what I said is there is a double standard in expat opinions. Do you find it difficult to read or what?

[Samuian]

.....the real issue here is one of acceptance of responsibility for the things they do and it seems to be a real problem amongst Thais.....

Kindergarten!

Even in relationships this behavior carries on... it's always "the other" it's a conscience thing or better the lack or not wanting to know about it, to be confronted with anything like it - a "mai mee sanook and Sabai, sabai" thing. They aren't able to admit mistakes, culture thing, result of non confrontational society - I don;t know, and don't care it's the mess they are in, if they want to get out of this... well, they better do something about it, otherwise they still believe people that it was an "honest lie" and elect them with their cronies to rule them and believe that they are good people who do a lot for them...!

The temples could help, but it seems they are caught up in a similar dilemma... raking in the donations, not much else seems to count, while the devotees believe they are freed from their sins,.... well, well ,well... in my home country someone started to "wipe the slate" clean and that was on 31 October 1517 (!!!!!)

The catholic church was selling "indulgences" promising the people that they will free them of sins... and Martin Luther had enough courage to stand up against this very unholy ploy of the church, with his 95 theses', by 1519 the news reached France, England, and Italy...here someone like Buddhadasa was forced to disrobe... for criticizing the clerics in this country...well there is much to be done, much.... loads in fact!

the only big barrier is, that those who should start the move, are the ones benefiting the most.. so it's your guess...

and sorry for using "they", I am aware that this is hard to justify, but maybe as hard to prove that it is the other way and NOT a generalization!

Try to pick one and then check...

Edited September 14, 2010 by Samuian

[canuckamuck]

What can you do when you are not concerned about face?

-Well you can put your hand up and ask a question in class.

-You can explain to someone they are about to make a mistake.

-You can ask for a second medical opinion.

-You can apologize, and you can admit a mistake

-You can let someone merge in traffic even though your car is European and theirs is old and rusty.

-You can sit on the floor to eat and let an old woman have a chair.

-You can say no when someone older is giving you bad advice.

-You don't have to pretend you know the answer when you don't.

Face is a handicap and helping someone to keep their face also comes at a price.

Edited September 14, 2010 by canuckamuck

[sillyman99]

What can you do when you are not concerned about face?

-Well you can put your hand up and ask a question in class.

-You can explain to someone they are about to make a mistake.

-You can ask for a second medical opinion.

-You can apologize, and you can admit a mistake

-You can let someone merge in traffic even though your car is European and theirs is old and rusty.

-You can sit on the floor to eat and let an old woman have a chair.

-You can say no when someone older is giving you bad advice.

-You don't have to pretend you know the answer when you don't.

Face is a handicap and helping someone to keep their face also comes at a price.

And when a huge great smelly fat Farang comes up to you in a Bar, you can tell him to fawk off, Without losing face.

You can admit to your senior citizen Farang husband that you only married him for monetary gain. Without losing face.

You can pretend you don't know him, when you're sitting in a restaurant on the Banks of the Mekong River with a man old enough to be your grandfather. Without losing face.

In fact, there's a lot to be said for Thai face.

We Farangs also have Face, we just interpret it differently.

Edited September 14, 2010 by sillyman99

[canuckamuck]

And when a huge great smelly fat Farang comes up to you in a Bar, you can tell him to fawk off, Without losing face.

You can admit to your senior citizen Farang husband that you only married him for monetary gain. Without losing face.

You can pretend you don't know him, when you're sitting in a restaurant on the Banks of the Mekong River with a man old enough to be your grandfather. Without losing face.

Yes these are good too.

[jacktrip]

If I can sit at a bar and laugh everything is all right with me and the world (face).

I just need a large bottle of Chang to wash it down with.

[nietzche]

the age old "face loss" situation is the #1 obstacle which holds this country back. believe it.

I think you are both selectively pinning this on Thai's.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? I never met a single human being in my professional life who wouldn't hesitate to throw the next guy under the bus.

It's not a "Thai thing", it's a "human thing".

I think Thai's handle being challenged a lot better that many westerners. From my experience the typical Yank will turn violent a hell of a lot quicker than a Thai.

[PaullyW]

the age old "face loss" situation is the #1 obstacle which holds this country back. believe it.

I think you are both selectively pinning this on Thai's.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? I never met a single human being in my professional life who wouldn't hesitate to throw the next guy under the bus.

It's not a "Thai thing", it's a "human thing".

I think Thai's handle being challenged a lot better that many westerners. From my experience the typical Yank will turn violent a hell of a lot quicker than a Thai.

Did you work in Walmart while in the US? I worked in corporate America, and my experience was the exact opposite to yours. People easily admit when they have done something wrong. In fact, at some firms (that I worked with/for), people's willingness to apologize was almost too high. I cannot recall meeting more than a few people who had similar Face issues that I observe with MOST Thais I encounter and who work for me and who I work with.

It is far more common here.

[nietzche]

the age old "face loss" situation is the #1 obstacle which holds this country back. believe it.

I think you are both selectively pinning this on Thai's.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? I never met a single human being in my professional life who wouldn't hesitate to throw the next guy under the bus.

It's not a "Thai thing", it's a "human thing".

I think Thai's handle being challenged a lot better that many westerners. From my experience the typical Yank will turn violent a hell of a lot quicker than a Thai.

Did you work in Walmart while in the US? I worked in corporate America, and my experience was the exact opposite to yours. People easily admit when they have done something wrong. In fact, at some firms (that I worked with/for), people's willingness to apologize was almost too high. I cannot recall meeting more than a few people who had similar Face issues that I observe with MOST Thais I encounter and who work for me and who I work with.

It is far more common here.

I worked as a software engineer on Wall Street. I'd say around 90% of the people I worked with were borderline sociopaths.

I'd like to know where you worked. Was it by any chance "Sesame Street"? If not, I can only assume that it was somewhere outside of a major city.

Clearly you did not work in a very competitive environment.

I have nothing against those who can thrive in such an environment, but it's not my style.

Back to the issue. Whether it's Thai, American, Brits, etc. It's human nature for people to lash out when confronted.

[PaullyW]

the age old "face loss" situation is the #1 obstacle which holds this country back. believe it.

I think you are both selectively pinning this on Thai's.

Have you ever worked in corporate America? I never met a single human being in my professional life who wouldn't hesitate to throw the next guy under the bus.

It's not a "Thai thing", it's a "human thing".

I think Thai's handle being challenged a lot better that many westerners. From my experience the typical Yank will turn violent a hell of a lot quicker than a Thai.

Did you work in Walmart while in the US? I worked in corporate America, and my experience was the exact opposite to yours. People easily admit when they have done something wrong. In fact, at some firms (that I worked with/for), people's willingness to apologize was almost too high. I cannot recall meeting more than a few people who had similar Face issues that I observe with MOST Thais I encounter and who work for me and who I work with.

It is far more common here.

I worked as a software engineer on Wall Street. I'd say around 90% of the people I worked with were borderline sociopaths.

I'd like to know where you worked. Was it by any chance "Sesame Street"? If not, I can only assume that it was somewhere outside of a major city.

Clearly you did not work in a very competitive environment.

I have nothing against those who can thrive in such an environment, but it's not my style.

Back to the issue. Whether it's Thai, American, Brits, etc. It's human nature for people to lash out when confronted.

I worked in Midtown at UBS for two years after grad school (just one example)

Anyway, are you saying that these things occur in the same percentages across cultures?

[GuestHouse]

I have absolutely no problem with the Thai Face issue.

I frequently use it against Thais to my own advantage.

[kerryk]

Relax guys. I have disagreed with both of you; both Nietzche and PaullyW. Since I disagreed with both of you I think I have a reasonably good idea of your reactions. No offense meant but both of you acted like sociopaths. I mean really nothing we have discussed was worth getting worked up about. But both of you became rather agitated in you responses. Hardly an adult like trait. I just wrote it off to you being in Thailand for a while. A good example will be your reaction to this post.

Will you intrepret my words as good natured fun or think I am trying to insult you?

[ripstanley]

I understand what the OP is trying to say, and yes, it IS a common fault with Thais that probably has something to do with Buddhist way of thinking. But, not taking responsibility for your own actions is a world wide problem, and more associated with poorly educated people. Of course, I also see it happen with the very wealthy as well. The very wealthy feel they can do anything they want to anyone they want with no repercussions. A typical example of that is the whole oil industry.

It is nice to see the OP trying to train his children to be responsible for their own actions. Good child rearing is the most important thing anyone can do in their entire life. It will affect the children's entire lives and everyone they come in contact with.

Thai children are taught that anything a superor says is the gospel truth. Unfortunately, what a superior says is not always the truth and there in lies the problem. By contrast, North Americans question all authority and that can also cause problems. There needs to be a balance.

When I'm in Thailand I am constantly amazed how many Thais accept their actions as being some sort of Buddhist fate that they have no responsibility for.

I totally agree with what you have stated except for the last paragraph.

[PaullyW]

Relax guys. I have disagreed with both of you; both Nietzche and PaullyW. Since I disagreed with both of you I think I have a reasonably good idea of your reactions. No offense meant but both of you acted like sociopaths. I mean really nothing we have discussed was worth getting worked up about. But both of you became rather agitated in you responses. Hardly an adult like trait. I just wrote it off to you being in Thailand for a while. A good example will be your reaction to this post.

Will you intrepret my words as good natured fun or think I am trying to insult you?

Hmmm.... Actually, I'm quite calm and peaceful. I also don't think it's likely that nietzche is especially worked up over this. Perhaps you have read in a bit too much emotion?

[aneliane]

My wife and I see this avoidance of responsibility thing with kids in Canada and in Thailand. Can't say for sure where it is worse.

We make sure our adopted 7 year old owns up to his deeds. He is pretty quick to say I did it; when he came here a year ago he would continually lie over the smallest thing. We also let him see that when he admits his mistake up front there is much less fuss. We are more concerned with lying than with simple misbehavior because it is a character thing.

However, In Canada I see that most people grow out of this habit (to a certain extent) whereas in Thailand I see the behavior become hardwired in. I think for the adults admitting a mistake or a failure is nearly impossible. You see it at every level.

The kid growing up and learning to take responsibility is a relevant example.

In my (modest) opinion Thailand is not a political mature country, like many developing countries (The Philippines, Malaysia, most southern African countries...) It never links their actions with consequences:

Thai people:

they throw their rubbish wherever there are at, and you cannot find an empty plot of land not soiled by thousands of plastic rubbish.

they invest a lot of money in cars, roads (they boast on thai motorway to spend more in roads construction than in US) an industry which is soon to be extinct due the end of oil resources

Politicians: Flood was not acted on and if -even forbid- the equal amount of water reaches the country the situation would be same or worse as lat year since nothing has been done on the long term basis.

Everyone lives as if there were no tomorrow, who could blames the children for doing the same?

[payak]

often I find the attempt to save face more foolish then the thing they are covering up, it ends up turning into an outright lie.

true eg, A woman who had a petty dispute with my wife,one of those woman that fights with every human she ever met,called me and said I don't want to hurt your heart but I just saw your wife down the market eating with another man.

I said when and she said right now, I just walked past her 2 minutes ago,I said it's no possible as she issitting next to me and we have been watching movies for hours.

her brilliant response,deny all, not possible to be next to me,Isaw her at the market,but you could hear the lying tone in her voice if that makes sense.

5 times I said she is next to me, she said cannot,I said talk to her you idiot and she hung up.

[zzdocxx]

Funny the OP brought up the Potato/Tomato thing, a close Thai friend of mine here in the US (she loves to cook), sometimes said potato instead of tomato. Which would at times lead to a puzzled look on my face, then she would exclaim "Oh - no, Tomato!".

And we'd both have a laugh about it.

Yeah nice lady, always referred to the kitchen as the "chicken-loom", close enough given how chicken was one of the most common ingredients, in any case I knew what she meant.

Just trying to say that I wonder if it is actually universal for Thai people to be so very defensive.

Perhaps it depends on the situation.

[slipperx]

When a person lives in a group, group mentality comes in to play and most people will find it hard to stand up and point out any failure of that group because it leads to being ostracized.

I love many things about Thailand and dislike the bad things. Just because I dislike people who will lie to make themself look good, dislike the fact that children are so poorly educated while the rich steal through corruption especially the politicians at the expense of the majority of children, just because I abhor corruption and people who have no regard for the betterment of their society, just because I try to instil a sense of fairness and moral, social behaviourvand self responsibility to my kids, just because my wife and several Thai accomplices forged my signature to defraud me of all my assets and my kids of the chance of a better education, life an inheritance and other people knew but chose not to say, just because I see many hings in society that are wrong; does it mean I should not comment because somehow someone in the group (Thais or misguided foreigners) will be upset I am not blindly following the groups homogenous decision.

If you study group behaviourvand even superficially you will see that the amazing capacity for individual critical thought gets lost. Our natural fear of social outcast stops what may be the most beneficial of our thought related abilities - to analyze and question ourselves in making a decision. This is lost in group think and why leaders can manipulate a group for their own, often evil ends.

Anyway the fact that I point out that Thais have a culture of face saving and that that issue causes problems does not reate to Thai bashing in my mind. I absolutely disagree with Richard who thinks this trait in it's Thai form (which is different to the Japanese form arising from a culturally moe honor based society), is restricted to the lower socio economic classes. I think if anything it is even worse with some of the hi-so more affluent and therefore perceived higher class Thais. That is not o say there are not many Thais who do not place so much emphasis on face, of course there re but they are in a minority I believe not the majority. Neither does it mean people with he issue of face are terrible or bad people, I just think it is something that holds them back. Lack of personal responsibility does not mean you are evil or bad but it is not a good trait is it? I think most people would say we should learn to take personal responsibility for the things we do wrong and as as responsible parents should teach that to our children and expect it from people who purport to serve society just as much as respect for just law and natural justice.

Thais have wonderful traits too. Just as our Western society is full of faults, in fact every society is full of faults, does that mean we should not examine the faults in the society we live and raise our children? Just because we were not born in Thailand, oh wait no neither the King nor Abhisit was born here, let me amend and say just because we re not seen as Thai as we have no Thai blood, does that mean we cannot look at aspects of this society and say they are damaging? Is Thai society so frail and immature that it cannot accept exposure of its weaknesses. Or is hat just a face thing.

No society will progress if group think pervades all and no original thinking occurs or at least thinking that questions for that is where all progress starts. Nations have begun from the spark of thought, every invention has come from the spark of individual thought and I challenge you to find one invention arising purely by a consensus group agreement. Society is progressing at a greater rate, orders of magnitude greater than a any time in human history and society has to change and adapt to manage the new challenges chan create.

I am not saying a lack of personal responsibility or face saving is purely a Thai thing but at least the latter is more prevalent, to the fore or emphasized trait here and one that I do not see as very helpful either to self improvement or group benefit. I am not bashing anyone, at least that is not the intention, but pointing out a behavioral pattern that, I'm m opinion, has a negative impact on the better progress of Thai society. I think I am entitled to comment as I raise my children as Thais, live here ( for as long as my situation will allow given I am a foreigner without a natural right of residence) and hope for a better future for Thailand for myself (as it is now my home in my mind) and for my children.

I do not want Thailand to become England but neither do I think that any society should blinker itself and as a result prevent itself from adopting things that have worked in other societies to their betterment. Looking only inwards is not the best formula and refusing to listen to opinions is not the way to make progress.

[Pseudolus]

"Face" is the death of free speech, social responsibility, merit based advancement, accountability. I wonder how many people have been murdered over Face. I wonder how many people have been imprisoned over Face (the defamation laws here are all about Face, not about defamation). I wonder how many relationships have been ruined over Face. This is not an exclusive Thai thing at all; it is prevalent all over the world. However, Thais, like other backward countries / peoples, hold it up as the most important thing in the world. It is more important to them to be able to do anything they like but never be called on it. It's a very 16th century attitude in so many ways. Advanced countries do have respect and integrity instead of Face, but do not mind being challenged about it. Wouldn't say this is the biggest reason Thailand will drift slowly backwards into poverty - 10 years, the Gulf of Thailand will run out of hydrocarbons, and if the floods destroy a fears years of Rice Crops; Thailand is in real big trouble. Their biggest problem is the graft and corruption which means any investment of the countries wealth has been self defeating because;

1) One third of the investment money has gone into the pockets of the HiSo families through graft. This has meant having to use 3rd rate construction firms who have cut costs by 50% to accommodate the graft.

2) infrastructure projects are therefore not lasting very long; need to be replace in 5 years instead of 20 years. But they don't get replaced, and therefore everything deteriorates.

3) Country falls apart - investors leave. Thais become even more protectionist. Even more investors leave.

[maxme]

My wife and I see this avoidance of responsibility thing with kids in Canada and in Thailand. Can't say for sure where it is worse.

We make sure our adopted 7 year old owns up to his deeds. He is pretty quick to say I did it; when he came here a year ago he would continually lie over the smallest thing. We also let him see that when he admits his mistake up front there is much less fuss. We are more concerned with lying than with simple misbehavior because it is a character thing.

However, In Canada I see that most people grow out of this habit (to a certain extent) whereas in Thailand I see the behavior become hardwired in. I think for the adults admitting a mistake or a failure is nearly impossible. You see it at every level.

The kid growing up and learning to take responsibility is a relevant example.

In my (modest) opinion Thailand is not a political mature country, like many developing countries (The Philippines, Malaysia, most southern African countries...) It never links their actions with consequences:

Thai people:

they throw their rubbish wherever there are at, and you cannot find an empty plot of land not soiled by thousands of plastic rubbish.

they invest a lot of money in cars, roads (they boast on thai motorway to spend more in roads construction than in US) an industry which is soon to be extinct due the end of oil resources

Politicians: Flood was not acted on and if -even forbid- the equal amount of water reaches the country the situation would be same or worse as lat year since nothing has been done on the long term basis.

Everyone lives as if there were no tomorrow, who could blames the children for doing the same?

Where I live at the moment (moving soon) there is a watershortage that would appear every year around this month and every time we have it people ask why the local government hasn't come up with a backup plan and it's pretty obvious. One is the know-how, the second is that they simply couldn't care less because that would mean investing more money into projects that they rather have in their own pockets.

And everytime this happens the people who are connected to the government in one way or another get their tanks refilled since there is a couply of friendly fire engines passing by but do these vehicles pass by the people who are in dire need of water like restaurants, schools etc etc... of course not, because they don't have a nephew sitting and picking his nose at city hall.

Edited August 18, 2012 by maxme