Admin Options On Suspension/deleion

[Guest IT Manager]

Over the last week, there have been at least a dozen complaints about people being suspended or having their posts moderated. Likewise, there were more than 20 complaints about posts, usually in forum, but twice I am aware of in PM to an admin.

One moderation was for straight out wrong information. Two supensions for cloning (saying they were in one place when they were in another), 7 days only.

Admins try to keep the level of the board well above the gutter, and generally, in my opinion, succeed.

There are other fora, where posts are unmoderated, and users here also post in them and nothing like moderation or suspension goes on. Nor do in-depth discussions around issues of concern ever occur.

What do users want? Vote and discuss please, not just vote and say nothing. If you are wondering why people get moderated, or suspended, here is your chance to give your views for general discussion.

[stumonster]

A few days away, and things are decidedly different.

fair enough if a post breaks the law here in thailand, in such a way as to cause serious problems.( eg. critism of the king and family )

or is just outright venom, not condusive to discussion

but just because some ones opinion might offend the tender sensibilities of the narow minded....

I have not seen the posts that seem to have been causing problems as I have been away, but in the past I have seen a few of the members displaying a sad lack of breadth in their thinking.

maybe they should have the option of putting users on ignore, so they do not have to face comments that might cause them to choke on their rightiousness.

[Thomas_Merton]

Well I really dummied out here

It was my intention to vote for "Warn the Poster in the forum and tell everyone why?" however I made the mistake of clicking on the "see results" button, despite the fact it is clearly written "Null Vote".

I think a public warning ought to be sufficient to deter most unwanted posting and also enable others to form an opinion themselves about the poster (and, of course, the administrator).

Continued unwanted posting by offenders should result in immediate suspension of a longer character than a week – perhaps a month. Any repeats after this should result in a life ban. As should:

• Insults to the Thai Royal Family

• Outright disrespect for the religious beliefs of the Thai people.

[Guest IT Manager]

It seems this poll was a good idea then. OK I will take that view from both of you on board and use it. What about editing posts which are patently offensive but have some valid view to put forward?

[Spellbound]

Good Poll IT

I rekon the best action would be :-

Edit the post if offensive and against the rules, then warn the Poster in the forum and tell why.

If it's felt to be a "touchy" and "not to demeaning" by the Admins, why dont you Poll it to all memebers.

Keep up the good work, and I agree this forum does need moderation to some degree.

[pnustedt]

I think that the administrators have become too mouse happy recently. Closing the "Concerned Farang" thread is just one example. IT made innacurate comments regarding other members and closed the thread e.g about Chon being in LOS.

Some threads do go on and get off-topic but if some people want to continue posting in them and deride each other why not let them? Others don't have to read them if they don't want to.

More serious are some of the statements published here which the administration do nothing about, e.g. statements about Michael Jackson which have not been proved. His lawyers could certainly take libel action against the person publishing the statement and (probably) the board owners - this could prove very expensive.

The board is a good example of the use of freedom of speach, with that freedom does come responsibility, I guess the right balance needs to be found.

I hope that Tomy hasn't been suspended?

[sbk]

Well, IT, I know what you mean about some out and out offensive posts, so I guess those ones should be deleted and then a warning posted in the thread-- also a pm to the poster in case they don't go back to the thread, perhaps a warning about learning to play nice in the sandbox with everyone!

Inaccurate info, well, we don't all know everything all the time so I would think just edit the post with an "this information is inaccurate" and then make a new post with the new accurate info. I know its alot of work but sometimes it is good to see what the prevailing opinion about something is and inaccurate info is often what is being heard around the town/country.

Also, I tend to agree that outright slanderous/libelous posts about current media figures might be edited with a "this post does not reflect the opinion of this forum and a warning is in effect to not repeat slanderous allegations". or along those lines. don't need thaivisa.com getting sued by someone!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I either edit or delete offensive posts. References to the Royal family and libellous criticism of people in government get the same treatment.

[Axel]

and I read it when coming home late, or when waking up early.

Without joke:

The poll should have multi-choice, I than would have clicked both (actually I tried)

Warn the Poster in the forum and tell everyone why?

Edit or delete the offending posts?

[Guest IT Manager]

I think that the administrators have become too mouse happy recently. Closing the "Concerned Farang" thread is just one example. IT made innacurate comments regarding other members and closed the thread e.g about Chon being in LOS.

A note to all via PNUSTEDT since he raised it;

The issue of moderating or outright suspension is something I have been made aware of, by members (not admins just for interest), hence you are writing in this thread.

5,500 registered members. 3 suspended. 3 complained about by members. Not a huge number is it?

Re "Concerned Farang". As long as you know what you know, and don't know what I know, I will continue to do that. If you want to have 2 registered names that's fine, however if the second is to slag off/offend, that will be put to sleep fast, so be prepared to lose it..

Chon was not discussed in my deal in that thread. You will notice he was not suspended. The two suspensions were one person, not in Thailand, geeing up people and making them worry. How do I know...? I got PM'd about it.

Chon and I have discussed his situation and I understand him perfectly and support him fully. In fact the suspension never even included or referred to Chon because we knew where he was all along. The two suspensions, if you read the posts, were designed to reflect a geographic position and a social mindset and situation. The two are incompatible with the facts.

I decided enough was enough.

For your information, I also find the MJ thread quite distateful, as I did the news thread about the English man. I did not close them because I was not moderating them. If you go through the MJ one, there is nothing from me, and in the other, all my posts, about 8 from memory, were calling on people to look at themselves before casting stones around glass houses, they were not able to be taken in the way some of our less erudite members chose to view/read/interpret them.

I consider myself to be of at least average intelligence. I go to work people ask why I am laughing so they see me as having a sense of humour, I go home in the afternoon and enjoy the company of my family so they believe I am caring.

Slag off at someone in a vicious, negative way, I will moderate you..hard. It will just be editing/deletions initially, but kept up will become moderation and then suspension..end of story.

Slag off at Thailand in a way I or the Doc or George find insulting, libellous or stupid, same set of results.

Denigrate Their Majesties..God and/or Buddha help you, I sure won't. Just hope we see it in time. Then we save you from yourself.

Please note this is general, for everyones information. I want everyone to be aware of how I perceive this forum. You sit in a pub in England or America and chat to your friends for a couple of hours over a beer and enjoy it. This is where I come to chat to my friends, because I like, now and then, to think in English and to correspond/chat in English.

In my village, my house is the ONLY one where English is spoken AT ALL. We also have 4 other languages being used all the time, but English is predominant. Both our sons' speak English extremely well and in fact our youngest (15 year old) leaves some of the English I see here in some shadow. This is not about English however, it's about attitude. 15 minutes of fame is fine, but at what cost to the rest of the membership. Do they have to suffer so one person gets their 15 minutes, do you think.

IMHO they don't.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend, no matter where in the world you are.

IT

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Very well said IT. Moderation by general vote or on a committee majority basis is destined to fail. Sometimes a fast mouse is the only way. We all have some variations in our views, but on balance, it works out ok. The stats quoted by IT bear this out. The forum is now over a year old

[francois]

might be nice to say that a post is going to close, before to close it ...

might be nice when edit a post to leave the original post for a couple of days before to close the useless post ...

might be nice to warn a bad poster and say why to us all before to send him/her

to sin-bin for a week or more ...

don't missunderstand me, I do agree that a forum needs some moderator, and that the work is far too be easy, but like IT said so few regarding to the number of members ... might not worth to raise a poll for this matter.

why this one appears now?

anyone has an idea?

[p1p]

I do not see any particular problems with the moderation of the board. If a post is potentially dangerous, offensive or illegal of course it should be deleted or edited and this should be done as soon as possible.

I believe that to PM the offender in the first instance is the right approach. Follow this by a public warning and lastly ban. Repeated offences should, of course, result in banning.

The difficulty with banning is that we are unlikely/almost impossible to be accessing from the same IP every time, so a ban will be in name only. Too easy to sign on again in a new name.

(Be nice to see a spell checker! I hope not all these guys are teachers!)

Keep up the good work.

[Guest IT Manager]

There has been more than a Little discussion on this, this morning.

Offensive posters will be warned in the thread, and the post edited appropriately or deleted.

Others can have their say over the ensuing days. I won't close threads unless they are dopey from the outset.

I closed the thread since Francois was asking a question, I answered it.

[francois]

There has been more than a Little discussion on this, this morning.

even a little too much just to agree that we need moderators

could we go on on more interesting topics, than this?

could be nice ...

since all or almost that had to be said has been said, seems to me that this thread is not interesting anymore ...

we know now! we agreed for most of us! ... so let's go on

francois

[pnustedt]

At least MJ gets bail and a trial - poor old Tomy gets banged to rights with no recourse!

[Guest IT Manager]

Never fear Pet, he is back. He does have recourse... new name, less trolls.

Downside, he won't get his award for 5,000 smart posts within 1 year, though I seriously doubt that was possible anyway, premised on the quality of his input.

How does a 7 day suspension equate to trial and retribution anyway?

To quote "get a grip man"

[WilliamIV]

IT - I didn't like you Closing "Concerned Farang" without saying why

- at the time. You since explained - after complaints - that he "didn't appear"

to be where he said he was.

In my opinion - I think most members will accept any action

by Admin - if the Admin can explain / justify their action.

Can you explain why you seemed to be "shy" about giving the reason?

Do you have doubts about relying on accuracy of IPs?

Bill

[Guest IT Manager]

William thanks for the question. I was shy. Back then I was merely a newbie to moderation.

I am thoughtful about using IP addressing as a method of sourcing information as my only line of info-gathering. I use also a tried and true rule of thumb, gut feeling is usually right.

The admins discussed the thread following a number of seriously concerned requests about the capacity of "Thai Wives" to deliver the "unkindest cut of all". These concerns were genuine and all had in common young men, into first relationships with Thai Women. Note relationship not experience.

I have found a series of similar incidents in the US, so should men married to US Women spend their hard-earned cash on concrete containment? IMO yes, if their behaviour warrants it.

Once I worked out what was going on i.e., a "WIND UP", I gave it the chop if you will excuse an unintended (more or less) witticism.

For those of you who were panting for the next bit, I have not considered sharing with the employer what was happening in his office during working hours, so "Concerned Falang" you can sleep easy. However, your boss is likely to be less than impressed with your "Marketing Research into Asian Options for the Company", when it takes that form, should he find out about it.

Please also say hi to Monica in HR for me if she is still there.

######

[Jeepz]

I still have no idea why Tomy got zapped with a seven day visit to the penalty box. No doubt something that got some feathers ruffled.

Moderating is obviously required from time to time. While blatant offenses are easy to deal with, it is the "pushing the edge" stuff that is harder to call, imho.

Exchanging ideas can lead disagreements. That's part and parcel to the process. But occasionally it leads to flaming. Disagreeing reasonably is one thing, flaming is another. They can be entertaining, but generally they end up disrupting the board.

I've seen people get really testy over "supposed" racism, though it was usually more a "nationality" thing than a race issue. One person noted they had experienced more "racist" attitudes from a specific nationality than any other. Boom! People were all over him for his racist attitude. Okay, maybe. But if that is his experience, what is he supposed to do with it. Pretend it doesn't happen to him because it doesn't fit some groups attitude toward being "pc"?

Sure, some folks have a grudge against this country or that country and want to swipe at them with large brushes. Very few countries that have perfect records. Actually none. Same thing for races. None have a better record for much of anything than another. Or none have a worse record either. Asians have killed each other, lorded it over each other, distrusted outsiders, and so forth. So have Caucasians, Africans, Native Americans. Pretty hard to name any group that hasn't taken a whack at it.

And on the balance side, each have made great contributions to art, literature, science, and all of the stuff that people attempt. They have had great love affairs, raised families, and done the things that keep us alive and kicking and wondering what is next.

But all that is viewed through our unique individual experience. So I guess my point is moderate with moderation. Be willing to let people disagree and even discuss unpopular ideas. And when it is time to step in, say why.

Jeepz

[ying-yang]

Never fear Pet, he is back. He does have recourse... new name, less trolls

does anybody have a definition for the word less troll.

since when did tomy became a trolls, after have said and done, he is still being put down.

Downside, he won't get his award for 5,000 smart posts within 1 year, though I seriously doubt that was possible anyway, premised on the quality of his input.

why are you assuming, thats what he was doing, does it matter how many time a person post, or is it fear he might bypass you

[Guest IT Manager]

Yes Tomy, oops Ying Yang, trolling is saying something either guaranteed to annoy people, or which was of no value but had the propensity to be disruptive to the members of the forum who use it as a place to exchange opinions and ideas.

I am yet to see an opinion of yours (sorry Tomys) of any real value, outside of having a go at people for no good reason.

More importantly, I didn't moderate you, however, I didn't vote not to either.

Jeepz, valuable point. Moderate with moderation. 3 suspensions for dopeyness, cloning etc, 2 at the specific request of other users who found posts insulting. So did I, but again I didn't moderate, I just agreed. Not bad for 5,500 plus members wouldn't you think?

As to the specific suspension, he didn't get jailed or lobotomised publicly by four tuk-tuk drivers in Soi 3, he was shut up for 7 days, and you will note, as I have in another thread, that he is back, (see above).

Now let it rest please. The suspension stays as far as I am concerned and I am of the opinion that if you feel it is harsh, a statement to that effect delivered to the Chairman will do about the same as carrying on about it here.

It took him almost 15 minutes to get a new ID and you will note, it has not been canned. He also made his longest post to date using it. Maybe he has thought about it.

[Jeepz]

Consider it rested.

I wasn't really meaning to "defend" tomy per se. I was just unclear as to the why in his case. But my text was mostly pointed toward the original topic of this thread and it's poll (which I didn't particpate in), but I didn't make that very clear, did I? Sorry.

Jeepz

[Guest IT Manager]

No problem Jeepz.

I have spent about 6 hours today defending myself for doing something on Friday that should have been done a week ago and wasn't. I also undertook in topic to relay my reasons, as opposed to ask for approval.

As the Doc says, you do this enough and the mouse becomes very quick I'm afraid, and wits aside, it does ruffle the odd feather, though in Tomys case I have no idea why. If he was an erudite exponent of the written word I could understand it, but enough of his input was rubbish to annoy more than a few members and at least 2 admins.

Francois said cool it.. I have.

Thanks for your understanding.

[ying-yang]

Yes IT. it is me tomy, this is your board your rule do what you see fit, i really don't like to use second name, i sign up as tomy and i'll stay as tomy regardless of what happen.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'm with you Francois. The real key is to have the posters think before they send their contribution. Some postings are so offensive they can't be left for discussion by the membership at large.

[andrew]

Seems like some of these "forum administrators" need to get out a little more.

On any given day in any given farang pub in Bangkok there'll be countless expats discussing anything and everything. Most of these conversations will be energetic (probably fuelled by alcohol) and will reflect views across the whole of the acceptable and not so acceptable spectrum.

Most of us are adults and therefore able to deal with this and to separate that which is relevant and considered from that which is not.

On a forum such as this, censoring that which is libellous, defamatory to the Thai Royal Family or insulting to Thai people and their culture, is clearly a necessity. Any further censorship is superfluous.

Example. Let's say someone somewhere replies to this post and calls me a ######. Will I be offended? No, I'll just pity the poor individual and move on. Censoring his comments would be misjudged as others elsewhere may agree with him.

Each to their own. I'm sure all of us are big enough to live our lives without the rather patronising "nannying" of Mr IT.

[Guest IT Manager]

Yes IT. it is me tomy, this is your board your rule do what you see fit, i really don't like to use second name, i sign up as tomy and i'll stay as tomy regardless of what happen.

OK how about this Tomy. The instant you came on, I knew. I didn't make a problem and I won't. You make the problems. I sort them out with other admins later.

So in the front of all the members, here is my view, just me, not the official admins view for the others.

Try really hard to be a good boy. Play nice in the sandpit. Don't say stupid things that make our Thai members cross or that make our non-Thai members think you are a total drop kick.

I thought you were about 13 when you first posted. I am still not convinced you aren't. There is a place for kids on this board, my own son comes in here occasionally, but he isn't saying outrageous and/or stupid things that upset people.

This is a place for grown ups (mostly) to exchange information, discuss ideas and generally interact with other grown-ups. Kids are fine so long as they don't interupt those grownups with peurile nonsense. Grown-ups like to have time to carry on as though the grown-ups are important and the chldren aren't centre of their entire existence. When you be loud and loathsome in the sand-pit, some grown-ups smile indulgently and say isn't the little treasure such a sweetie? Other grown-ups feel a need to give you a whack and send you to your room, which is exactly what happened.

So I will let you out of your room for now but you have to wear your ying-yang dress, white socks and a sun bonnet. In five days Tomy, a new and grown up little boy can come out of his room and behave and act like a grown-up. He can even have long trousers and leather shoes, as long as he behaves himself.

If he misbehaves any I will, without discussing with the other admins, box your ears and ban your butt. And continue every time you ying yang in again, until you understand. Don't be a pain in the arse.

Thats my last word on the matter. Now go and tell your mum she needs you. Then you can go watch some TV and go to bed at 10.30. And don't forget to brush your teeth. And it's cold so wear the new flannelette pyjamas we bought from Wal-Mart or wherever.

And for the record, it wasn't me who sent you to your room before, but I sure as he11 will the next time... goodness you make me cross.

And stop tapping your foot..naughty child.

[ying-yang]

once again im being bash, i can't understand how can a person like you giving a lecture, when you can't even control yourself

Play nice in the sandpit

are you playing nice with reply like this

Don't say stupid things that make our Thai members cross

so what about this reply

saying outrageous and/or stupid things that upset people.

are you kidding me, have you read the board lately, Dr. calling people stupit, i guest that won't upset people

This is a place for grown ups (mostly) to exchange information, discuss ideas and generally interact with other grown-ups. Kids are fine so long as they don't interupt those grownups with peurile nonsense. Grown-ups like to have time to carry on as though the grown-ups are important and the chldren aren't centre of their entire existence. When you be loud and loathsome in the sand-pit, some grown-ups smile indulgently and say isn't the little treasure such a sweetie? Other grown-ups feel a need to give you a whack and send you to your room, which is exactly what happened.

are you pulling my leg, talking about hooker, bar girl, and how MJ is a weirdo, etc..etc.. i can go on and on.

So I will let you out of your room for now but you have to wear your ying-yang dress, white socks and a sun bonnet.

are you putting me down, ying-yang dress, oh you hurt my feeling, but i guest no one can ban you right.

put down 1. (Now go and tell your mum she needs you)

2.Then you can go watch some TV and go to bed at 10.30. And don't forget to brush your teeth.

3.And it's cold so wear the new flannelette pyjamas we bought from Wal-Mart or wherever.

do you feel like you have the power of a god, to put me down like this, very intellectual reply, do you feel good. like i say your board your rule. i hope you get a good satisfaction out of all this. as for me im just tomy.

[HEXtaB]

If the case against trolling is true, then why was Mr.V's Thread "King Dubya II blah blah blah" allowed from the outset? At one point he questioned the gender of the Queen of England (not LoS, phew!, that would be serious).

It was far more inflammatory than "Concerned Falang" and was deliberately crafted to illicit a response from "Brits". Further, the thread was allowed to run until the thread starter himself requested termination. Obviously after winning a bet of some sort.

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the arguments generated by the thread, as did many others - I'm sure. Also, I would never ask for or expect such a thread to be "closed" by the moderators, ESPECIALLY at the request of the thread starter!

Within the bounds of Thai legality, as discussed by earlier posters, I suggest that obvious "trolling" threads , argumentative threads, or others which turn into slanging matches should be moved to a section for such "debates" - "The Sandpit" maybe?

HEX