Places To Park A Houseboat On The Mekong?

[jaideeguy]

There have been other threads on this subject that never yielded any solid results and only little discussion. A topic that the 'Gypsy' in me has long dreamed about here in LOS where there are many rivers navigable and ownership of land is impossible . Google doesn't have much info either, but I still dream and wonder if others are dreaming the same or maybe some are 'living my dream' of buying or renting a houseboat on a major river where you can pull ankor and go somewhere when you want a change of scenery.

Google does tell me that there is nearly 1,000miles of navagable river above the falls of Cambodia and I have seen stretches of it along the Thai side, having driven most of the Mekong riverside roads in LOS in Issan and the north.......beautiful scenery.

There are these cargo [turned tourist boats] that cruise the river......long narrow boats with shallow drafts that can go upstream in fairly fast rapids. An old design that has served the needs of the Mekong communities well for centuries and now are becomming obsolete with better roads and bridges to move people and cargo faster [and cheaper?].

These boats would be so easy to convert to 'live aboard' and lots already are for Thai/Lao standards with whole families and crews living on them and a few modifications could make them 'falang livable' and comfortable.

To make my 'Mekong River Gypsy' fantasy a reality come true, I have to ask a few questions about the realities.....

1] Home port.....which country would be the easiest to do this in?? Laos or Thailand??

2] Where would be ports with basic facilities.......access to potable water, electricity, food etc?? and most importantly, safe and legal right to moore the houseboat for periods when I'm not aboard??

3] Legal ownership [or lease] of the vessel?? Thailand vs Laos??

4] rivers rise and fall depending on season and that is a consideration.....like where to go when it floods??

5] are there any river 'communities' [marinas] Thai or Laos?? any with crazy falangs like me??

6] do river vessels have to be registered ??in Thai or Laos??

If it is doable, I would most probably hire a 'captain' and crew to operate, maintain and protect it.....which would probably not be a big expense either here in LOS or Laos.

It would be easy to make it mostly self sufficient with solar cells for electricity and the motor to generate electricity while under way and a big battery back-up. River water could be filtered.

[jubby]

having lived on a narrowboat for a short spell which was also decked out to Thai or Laos standards apart from Inverters, Solar panels & satelite TV ofcourse.

I'd say why not. It would be an interesting project.

The River is probably not that easily navigated but if you have crew why not.

Permits might be a problem as might Visa Issues.

I suspect somewhere some official will be keen to put down your Idea , but I hope I'm wrong.

[harrry]

The housboats in Kashmir originated when British were not allowed to own land there. they built boats instead that were really luxury houses on pontoons. I spent many a day looking at the still water wrapped in a blanket with a hot water bottle.

Could be a nice way of living here if you picked the right place...of course the only use of the hot water bottles would be for arthritis.

Edited September 26, 2010 by harrry

[sceadugenga]

I suspect the easiest path would be to make the boat owned by a Thai company, much the same as farang do with houses, and then you're always a "guest" or passenger on the boat.

Anywhere that the Mekong is an international border you would get bureaucrats worrying about whether you have illegally crossed into their country. You would have to make sure you only went ashore at towns with an immigration post.

[jaideeguy]

What if my 'fantasy boat' were registered in either LOS or Laos and MY visa was from the same country?? Then I wouldn't be crossing a border?

Maybe there are some falangs [or trustworthy Thais] out there that own riverfront land and would rent me mooring space??

And, what about all the long 'slow boats' that ply the Mekong between Chiang Kong and Laos.....are they based in Lao?? Where?.

Jubby, you say that you "lived on a narrowboat for a short spell which was also decked out to Thai or Laos standards ".....please elaborate on this....when and where??

Does anyone know of any 'river gypsys' anywhere on the Mekong?? falang, Thai or Lao??

This would be my 'last great adventure' and I'm sure that it would be affordable to buy and retrofit one of those longboats to a comfortable standard.

[Joel Barlow]

I recall when some farang died on the Mekhong, shot by river bandits...

less long ago, Lao bandits killed some farang north of Vientianne...

My older brother lived in BurkinoFaso for a while, and bought a Dutch firetruck

converted into a camper. He invited me and our other brother to drive across the Sahara

in it with him. I'm here to tell the tale, because I decided to forego that Big Adventure.

Most likely your biggest problem would involve your visa -

and that one might be insurmountable.

I'm not positive about this, but when I moved to CR 12 years ago, I lived just south

of MaeSai (Mea Sai?), about 6 km south of the Burmese border.

I was told I was not allowed to do so, that Farang are not to reside close to the border.

You may have noticed a dirth of maps of border areas?

[jubby]

Just Ignore me Jaideeguy. The boat was in the UK. I never finished the interior but it did have lots of toys and gadgets.

If your just going to moor it then I can find you a spot right now.

Moving around will be the greatest Hurdle.

I'm not totally sure but the Thai bit of the mekhong runs from the golden triangle Area to pad dai near Wiang Kean in the north, It then travels through laos and then you have the southern stretches near vietiene and nong khai and further south.

On all these stretches of river you have Thailand on oneside and Laos on the other. So the border will probably be in the middle of the River. The Navigable part isn't always so. Its going to be tricky knowing who's juristiction you come under. Its going to be a Visa nightmare.

Have you considered the Norfolk broads . There are some beautiful waterways in Europe too. No Visa Issues .

I don't want to put a damper on the project but it's probably a non starter.

If your determined then you may need to contact Immigration or border police in the area you intend to moor and see what they say.

[sceadugenga]

I recall when some farang died on the Mekhong, shot by river bandits...

less long ago, Lao bandits killed some farang north of Vientianne...

My older brother lived in BurkinoFaso for a while, and bought a Dutch firetruck

converted into a camper. He invited me and our other brother to drive across the Sahara

in it with him. I'm here to tell the tale, because I decided to forego that Big Adventure.

Most likely your biggest problem would involve your visa -

and that one might be insurmountable.

I'm not positive about this, but when I moved to CR 12 years ago, I lived just south

of MaeSai (Mea Sai?), about 6 km south of the Burmese border.

I was told I was not allowed to do so, that Farang are not to reside close to the border.

You may have noticed a dirth of maps of border areas?

Must have been a "sensitive" area back then Joel, I'm sure there are plenty of farang living in Mae Sai itself now, I know one personally who lives a few meters from the Sai river in the town.

[marcgee]

I lived on a large liveaboard in Toronto Canada for 7 yrs before retiring (except for 40 pigs) to T.L .It was a great life.

On my 1st T.L. tour 7 years ago I briefly checked into it in my travels.I was told that it was not possible for a falang to live permanently on a boat /floating house.

I don't recall how good the info was, but I would suggest you follow up on the legalities first.

[jaideeguy]

Jubby....

"If your just going to moor it then I can find you a spot right now." on the Mekong river?? Where?? ....in LOS?/ And would it be legal?? you can PM me the location or share with other 'river gypsy wanna-bes'.

Good idea checking with immigration in CR?.... is there an immigration office in Chiang Kong??

Another angle would be to do it in Laos, where the river runs into Laos?? Any Laos expats reading this??

I am going to Cambodia next month to investigate doing it there and do have one contact that lives on a boat out of PP.....but the river is different there and the boat designs are different as well.

The common Lao/Thai riverboat would be ideal with the 100+ft long and I have seen double deckers that would be quite spacious.

"I recall when some farang died on the Mekhong, shot by river bandits...

less long ago, Lao bandits killed some farang north of Vientianne..."

I take my chances with fate every day that I'm on the road here in Chiang Mai.......it's a dangerous part of the world that we live in.....maybe a few more dangers on the river, but if i did this, I would hire a good 'captain' and maybe arm him [if legal].

"I don't recall how good the info was, but I would suggest you follow up on the legalities first.'

that's what I'm doing .....starting here.

[jubby]

Jaiedeeguy,

check the legalities first as the Guy says. I'm usually up for an adventure myself but I do strongly suspect Authorities are going to put a spanner in the works.

Thai & Lao people seem to come and go as they please along the river. every Village on the River seems to have Police that double as Immigration Oficials. The lao people pay there twenty baht and they are away. These places are not available to us. We would get in a right pickle just turning up . invalidate your Visa or much worse.

Laos or Cambodia may be a different story. Not sure about Cambodia but laos has huge sections of the river that dont share borders which theoretically should eliminate the Visa Issue.

If Its Ok, and they don't have a problem then I suspect you just need a floating pontoon to moor at.

There is an Immigration office in Chiang Khong. never found them helpful.

Good Luck fella

[sceadugenga]

There's an immigration office at Chiang Saen that I suspect deals almost exclusively with the boats that come down river from China.

Maybe they would be a better option than the one at Chiang Khong.

Phnom Penh is on the junction of the Mekong and the Tonle Sap which is also navigable up to it's source, a large lake of the same name.

I've seen a floating village on that lake, near Siem Reap, maybe you could join that community...

[jaideeguy]

Another possibility would be to moor the boat up one of the many rivers that feed into the Mekong.....either on the Thai side or Laos side??

And, maybe this 'concept' could have some commercial [touristic] oportunity.......If visitors could have a scenic trip down the river and stay on board for a 2 or 3 day journey.......I'd go for it.

[David2up]

With enough money, imagination, Time and some Luck, all is doable. But there are some realities to consider along with what some of the other guys have mentioned.

The river does not run between Laos and Thailand all the way down South. Just south of here in Chiang Khong to just West of Vientiane, the river is totaly in Laos.

And ALL "Navigatable Water" is in Laos. Example: that means that all the boats in Chiang Saen that are tied to the dock are actually floating in Laotion waters. This is all compliments of a French Treaty in the 1800's. You'll notice they are building a 400 Rae port facilites just South of Chiang Saen - due to this problem. Immigartions here in town go a bit crazy when in the low river season, foriegners in Thailand go out to the sandy islands in the middle of the river, in that they have actually left Thailand and gone to Laos and back with out any clearence procedures...

Then of course there are all the other considerations already mentioned., by other posters.

I've lived on a sailboat for over 30 years (now ashore :-)) here in Chiang Khong) and have been around, boats, river boats and house boats in multiple countries as well as here in Thailand. Also got a a number of friends that are in the boat building business for locals as well as for export. Send me a PM and I'll share in detail with you anything that I can.

Cheers and Good Luck,

David and Mai

Chiang Khong

[sceadugenga]

Thanks for the informative and interesting post.

[pramaprow]

Forget the Mekong…get whatever rig you want and stay on any of the many rivers in Thailand…I just sold a raft I lived on for four years on the Mae Klong River (think up and down from Kanchanaburi (Kwae Yai, Kwae Noi))…loved it, miss it…needed the dough or I'd still be there…(many photos at: picasaweb.google.com/pramaprow)...

[David2up]

Hi folks,

Just taking a bit of a lunch break from work around the place and thought I'd add a couple more comments.

While there are a zillion good/wonderful reasons to do a "river boat" live aboard, please allow me to dump a few realities where people find their "boating dreams" less then what they thought they were going to be.

O&M cost. Operational cost can run very high. Higher then anyone but a long time boater or marine repair faciltie would think! And doubling the lenght does not just double the cost, but can make it 3-6 times greater.

You mention 100feet+. The draft for a boat this big makes problems for you to no end. Bigger is not always better.

Where are you going to find hual-out or beaching facilites to do annual work?

Who builds a boat this big for on the river? No one is my guess. There is a boat about 80 freet or so that belongs to a resort about 4-5 hours from us down river and does river cruises for their guests.

Is there going to be a dam built on the river in the near future? Strong rumor has it that they are getting ready to build a dam just North of Pak Beng which is 6 hours south of here. This will stop you from getting South...

There are rapids just North of Chiang Khong that restrict the 60-70 foot Chinese cargo boats from getting any further south then Chiang Saen.

The scenery on the Mekong between the Laos/Cambo border and the Laos capital of Vientiane can become very boring very fast - at least that was our experiance. The beauty/scenery is from Luang Phrabang Northwards. And then there will be the Dam and then then are the rapids just North of Chiang Khong.

How to get ashore? One of the biggests problems world wide for boaters, is where to leave the "shore boat". Theft will drive you up a wall.

Rivers running into the Mekong, while sometimes frequent can also be few and far between and the depth is minimal.

Fule cost at curent oil prices are not too bad, but when they get back to 140bucks a barrel...

Crew is one of the biggest problems for big boat owners. And in Thialand you as a forighner are Not Allowed to skipper or crew the boat. This means you can not drive it or work it. Anyone that wants to get at you can easily report this to the authorities and then you are screwed - big time...

Getting fresh water to a boat on the river is not easy. All the boats you see going up and down are using river water for every thing except drinking water.

A suggestion - all around the world I've seen people want to get into boating in one form or another. And once in - most find it less then what they had dreamed about, so all kinds of negativity creep into all that they do. And that is a shame, for being on the water can be one of lifes most wonderful pleasures. Possilby you might consider Leasing a boat with crew and spending 2-3 months traveling from one end of the riverto the other as much as possible. And do this in the middle of the dry/cooler season when mold doesn't grow on everything and the constant damp leaves you feeling a bit limp and the heat leaves you a bit wilted. Then you will then see what does and does not work according to your presupposed ideas. You might find, that all things considered, it's not really your cup of tea and you can get out with out having spent very much while having had a great adventure.

Anyway - just a couple of thoughts. My lunch is done - back to work,

Cheers from Chiang Khong

[jaideeguy]

Thanks David for the reality check [and popping my bubble].......you do point out some realities that I was looking for. I am beginning to see the folly of my fantasy of being a river gypsy. It sounded good on paper, and is still do able, but will be a lot of stress in getting it done.

I would beinterested in the " boat about 80 freet or so that belongs to a resort about 4-5 hours from us down river and does river cruises for their guests."

Do you have a link for that resort?? or any contact info??......prices for charter??

You're based out of Chiang Khong, so you must see lots of the slow river boats that I was interested in. I'll try to attach a foto of the type that I am dreaming about on this post or another one.

pramaprow has a good idea and maybe he could share his experiences with a little more detail??

Again.....Thanks for the input.....I gotta get back to work myself, but don't consider this topic dead yet

[David2up]

We saw the boat maybe twice last season. It was a wooden double decked affair and not like the one shown in the Luang Say resort web site. You might want to contact Ann tours or better yet, Easy tours here in CK and ask them.

Cheers,

David

[jaideeguy]

For some reason....slow internet or thaivisa or my pc, I've been fighting for a half hr or more trying to upload this foto that may not even make it this time, but this is the type of boat that I want to convert to a livaboard. As you can see, it's at least 100ft long and quite narrow, but lots of room. let's hope it makes it this time......

http://http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/LocationPhotos-g293949-w3-Laos.html

[jaideeguy]

For some reason....slow internet or thaivisa or my pc, I've been fighting for a half hr or more trying to upload this foto that may not even make it this time, but this is the type of boat that I want to convert to a livaboard. As you can see, it's at least 100ft long and quite narrow, but lots of room. let's hope it makes it this time......

http://http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/LocationPhotos-g293949-w3-Laos.html

I see that it didn't make it after the 10th attempt, so if you want to see the foto, just google 'laos slow boat' and it will appear under 'images'.

[bifftastic]

This one?

[jaideeguy]

This one?

Yes, that's the foto that I struggled with attaching for hours.....every time I tried, thaivisa timed out and didn't upload.

Now......wouldn't that be a nice roomy boat for conversion??

Thanks bifftastic!!

[bifftastic]

No problem

yeah it would be great!

I think you'd have to have some kind of address on land though, don't you need that for the visa extension stuff? 90 day reports and so on?

Would they register a boat as an address?

I mean I suppose you could get around the mooring problem, depending on where you do it, I can't imagine the folks in Ban Sob Kham really having any problem with me mooring a boat there for instance. You might have trouble with some nosey officials or something. But if you had a land address, like a house where your paperwork said you lived, there's nothing to stop you spending all your time on your boat now is there?

And, just as a thought occurs to me, what about the toilet? You can't really shit in the river, that would make you unpopular, specially with my mrs, she washes the dogs in the river!

[jaideeguy]

The address on land would/could be where you moor it?? and does that only apply under Thai visa laws......what about Laos visa laws?? And, if in LOS....then I would use my home address and say that the boat was for recreation only....if asked.

Where is this Ban Sob Kham??

Re: poop in the river.....that's what the locals do.....it's called fish food. I'm sure the volume of water is enough to dilute it and if not, then the waste could be taken ashore and disposed of properly. I've used these camper's toilets that use a disinfectant and there is always a compost toilet. Not a big problem.

No problem

yeah it would be great!

I think you'd have to have some kind of address on land though, don't you need that for the visa extension stuff? 90 day reports and so on?

Would they register a boat as an address?

I mean I suppose you could get around the mooring problem, depending on where you do it, I can't imagine the folks in Ban Sob Kham really having any problem with me mooring a boat there for instance. You might have trouble with some nosey officials or something. But if you had a land address, like a house where your paperwork said you lived, there's nothing to stop you spending all your time on your boat now is there?

And, just as a thought occurs to me, what about the toilet? You can't really shit in the river, that would make you unpopular, specially with my mrs, she washes the dogs in the river!

[bifftastic]

I only mentioned Ban Sob Kham as it's where my g/f lives and if I was to moor a boat there it would be ok because I've got connections there, so everyone would know, 'oh that's Biff's boat' It's about 5km East of Chiang Saen on the Mae Nam Khong. Dunno if they'd let you poop in the river there though ok downstream from where the dogs get washed and you might get away with it

I haven't seen anyone poop in the river, they've all got houses with toilets

The address thing, that's what I'm not sure about, if they would register a boat as an address, if they've never done it before, chances are you'd get a 'mai dai' on that one. If you were a Thai person it probably wouldn't come up as an issue, there's plenty of people who aren't really registered anywhere, especially along the river (back and forth from Laos etc.) but for you, you'd need to be officially living somewhere wouldn't you?

That's why I thought that if you had connections, through family or something, somewhere near where you wanted to moor the boat, you wouldn't be in the position of trying to present a government official with a situation they hadn't come up against before, thereby reducing the possibility of the 'mai dai'. If they just need to stamp a paper that looks exactly like all the other papers they see every day, it'll just get stamped and you can stay on your boat.

The address on land would/could be where you moor it?? and does that only apply under Thai visa laws......what about Laos visa laws?? And, if in LOS....then I would use my home address and say that the boat was for recreation only....if asked.

Where is this Ban Sob Kham??

Re: poop in the river.....that's what the locals do.....it's called fish food. I'm sure the volume of water is enough to dilute it and if not, then the waste could be taken ashore and disposed of properly. I've used these camper's toilets that use a disinfectant and there is always a compost toilet. Not a big problem.

No problem

yeah it would be great!

I think you'd have to have some kind of address on land though, don't you need that for the visa extension stuff? 90 day reports and so on?

Would they register a boat as an address?

I mean I suppose you could get around the mooring problem, depending on where you do it, I can't imagine the folks in Ban Sob Kham really having any problem with me mooring a boat there for instance. You might have trouble with some nosey officials or something. But if you had a land address, like a house where your paperwork said you lived, there's nothing to stop you spending all your time on your boat now is there?

And, just as a thought occurs to me, what about the toilet? You can't really shit in the river, that would make you unpopular, specially with my mrs, she washes the dogs in the river!

[marcgee]

There are several of that type of boat in the photo that I've admired moored along the shore across from the shops in Chiang Saen.

Yes I'd say they are all about the same at about 90 ft.

The beam is hard to judge at the angle of view but likely about 20 ft. The freeboard is maybe 3ft. empty

They are a shallow draft design

Construction appears to be steel plate with very heavy timber bumper s as they tend to crash land against the next boat when mooring due to the high current and handling.

I'd judge they have big power as they appear to run at about 15mph against a 10 to 15 mph current when loaded.

They are an extremely crude vessel, especially the cabin that is close to a shack,but again it is a commercial vessel.

I'm getting worked up thinking about the possibilities!!

After doing a major rebuild on my 50 ft houseboat in Canada (and loving most of it) It is a very big undertaking,The marine gear is very expensive worlwide,

If you can't do most of the work yourself,I'm certain that the good marine craftsmen are hard to find. At least they have reason not to use a level!

As previously stated # ONE is get the legals straight and good research . If all is good --IT IS A GREAT LIFE

Does anyone have an idea about there value?

marcgee

[marcgee]

There are several of that type of boat in the photo that I've admired moored along the shore across from the shops in Chiang Saen.

Yes I'd say they are all about the same at about 90 ft.

The beam is hard to judge at the angle of view but likely about 20 ft. The freeboard is maybe 3ft. empty

They are a shallow draft design

Construction appears to be steel plate with very heavy timber bumper s as they tend to crash land against the next boat when mooring due to the high current and handling.

I'd judge they have big power as they appear to run at about 15mph against a 10 to 15 mph current when loaded.

They are an extremely crude vessel, especially the cabin that is close to a shack,but again it is a commercial vessel.

I'm getting worked up thinking about the possibilities!!

After doing a major rebuild on my 50 ft houseboat in Canada (and loving most of it) It is a very big undertaking,The marine gear is very expensive worlwide,

If you can't do most of the work yourself,I'm certain that the good marine craftsmen are hard to find. At least they have reason not to use a level!

As previously stated # ONE is get the legals straight and good research . If all is good --IT IS A GREAT LIFE

Does anyone have an idea about there value?

marcgee

[sceadugenga]

Bear in mind you're not dealing with salt water here.

I've lived near the beach and you can just about see everything metal rusting away. (Including your car.)

Similarly you don't have the voracious timber munchers that seem to prefer salt water.

[jaideeguy]

marcgee....I'm sure that thereare always local ways to do the physical/mechanical makeovers here......we're dealing with people with a long history of 'making do' with what's available locally. The motors on those rigs are most probably surplus Isuzu truck diesel engines and easy to get parts for and everyone knows how to repair. Cooling with fresh river water.....no problem.

I will be making a trip up from CM in a month or so and will check out construction and foto details, take measurements for my self and others that may be interested. If this crazy idea is legally do able, then I can see others have an interest in same........maybe a falang river gypsy marina??

Also will try to get info on doing it from the Laos side [maybe easier if you pay the right people] and or a river in LOS that feeds into the Mekong. Anyone suggest any rivers in LOS??

I am convinced that it can be done from the construction aspect......it's just the legalities that might be a hang up.

or maybe as others have suggested, hire/buy/sponsor/rent an existing boat and crew.

Still just a dream and i've been here long enough to know that this is the place for dreams [to fail?].....but that's why I'm posting.

I'm actually surprised that no one [falang] is doing this.....ormaybe they are but doing it quietly??

And, as to address to satisfy Thai immigration......I've had one for 10+ yrs and will continue to keep it......or easy to get another. No need to call the houseboat 'home'.....it can just be a 'vacation getaway'??

Edited September 28, 2010 by jaideeguy