Pigs 101 (A Start)

[IsaanAussie]

Hi guys,

I am looking for a few 100% purebred male piglets (not castrated)

- Duroc

- Pietrain

- Large White

- DANISH Landrace

I want to buy from different blood-lines.

I would also like to know where I can buy purebred Pietrain seamen or piglets in Thailand.

Thanks and hope I can buy from you guys so we can support eachother.

Send me a PM with your exact needs. I have not got anything to satisfy your need but know the right guy ( a young Thai) who has. Realistic, modern and excellent stock of pigs and semen. Biosecure beyond doubt!

[IsaanAussie]

Hi guys,

I am looking for a few 100% purebred male piglets (not castrated)

- Duroc

- Pietrain

- Large White

- DANISH Landrace

I want to buy from different blood-lines.

I would also like to know where I can buy purebred Pietrain seamen or piglets in Thailand.

Thanks and hope I can buy from you guys so we can support eachother.

Send me a PM with your exact needs. I have not got anything to satisfy your need but know the right guy ( a young Thai) who has. Realistic, modern and excellent stock of pigs and semen. Biosecure beyond doubt!

[IsaanAussie]

Latest trend in pig prices from the National Swine Association show the recent prices levels are declining slightly. If the normal trend occurs we may well have seen the best already.

Prices May 2012 national swine association.pdf

Edited May 20, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[sezze]

Probably a stupid question , but is there something like a market for pigs ..

After trying and failing miserably the 1st try ( due to all beginner errors ) , we did do a 2nd try but now for breeding pigs . We just sold out the 1st lot and with a healthy margin. They all went to local people so this is only possible for low nr's . Extending the business , would provide a healthy income , if we can sell it . I'm pretty sure for let's say , 20 or 30 per month but what about larger nr's ?

[IsaanAussie]

Probably a stupid question , but is there something like a market for pigs ..

After trying and failing miserably the 1st try ( due to all beginner errors ) , we did do a 2nd try but now for breeding pigs . We just sold out the 1st lot and with a healthy margin. They all went to local people so this is only possible for low nr's . Extending the business , would provide a healthy income , if we can sell it . I'm pretty sure for let's say , 20 or 30 per month but what about larger nr's ?

Stock market for pigs? I doubt it, none around me. I assume you mean nett return (nr's)?

20 to 30 piglets per month means you will need 12 sows plus. It also would mean an average of 10 local customers per month. If you sell at weaning plus a week or so. Each repeat customer would revisit every 4 months at the earliest, assume 5. That means you need a minimum of 50 customers taking an average of 2 piglets each.

"If we can sell it" indeed. Check the local livestock development office and the net for statistics on the number of farmers raising pigs in your area. Is it satisfied by the local breeding farms? How many people are contract growing?

Can you raise the nett return? Yes, reduce your cost base and offer something the customer is willing to pay more for. Get rid of the poor performers at first opportunity for any return you can. Look at what supplementary feed you can make or grow.

In my opinion too many people look only at the gross income against the feed bill. As a breeder, and I am still guilty of this, it is all too easy to hold stock that has little chance of making a return on cost. Giving a sow another chance is a 5 to 6 month feed commitment. Cull them if in any doubt.

One thing to watch very carefully is the amount of feed given to gestating sows. Very easy to overfeed them, not only do they get too fat, the litter size can be reduced and her lactation effected. You mentioned you were a beginner, read busy reading up on nutrition. Feed is a major cost element and at 1.5ton each per year a sow is an expensive beast to feed.

I had a guy feeding our pigs. He was giving a sow just recently rejoined the same amount of feed as he fed her when she was nursing her last litter. The nett effect was about a 30% overfeeding cost.

Net return is also effected by the average parity of your sows. You should look at the replacement planning of sows and gilts to average a parity level of 2 to 3 across the herd. Maximum piglet output is normally at parity 2 to 4. Gilts deliver fewer piglets. I work on a herd average number of 9 piglets weaned per litter as the goal.

The short answer is reduce your costs and provide something perceived as better.

[sezze]

Probably a stupid question , but is there something like a market for pigs ..

After trying and failing miserably the 1st try ( due to all beginner errors ) , we did do a 2nd try but now for breeding pigs . We just sold out the 1st lot and with a healthy margin. They all went to local people so this is only possible for low nr's . Extending the business , would provide a healthy income , if we can sell it . I'm pretty sure for let's say , 20 or 30 per month but what about larger nr's ?

Stock market for pigs? I doubt it, none around me. I assume you mean nett return (nr's)?

20 to 30 piglets per month means you will need 12 sows plus. It also would mean an average of 10 local customers per month. If you sell at weaning plus a week or so. Each repeat customer would revisit every 4 months at the earliest, assume 5. That means you need a minimum of 50 customers taking an average of 2 piglets each.

"If we can sell it" indeed. Check the local livestock development office and the net for statistics on the number of farmers raising pigs in your area. Is it satisfied by the local breeding farms? How many people are contract growing?

Can you raise the nett return? Yes, reduce your cost base and offer something the customer is willing to pay more for. Get rid of the poor performers at first opportunity for any return you can. Look at what supplementary feed you can make or grow.

In my opinion too many people look only at the gross income against the feed bill. As a breeder, and I am still guilty of this, it is all too easy to hold stock that has little chance of making a return on cost. Giving a sow another chance is a 5 to 6 month feed commitment. Cull them if in any doubt.

One thing to watch very carefully is the amount of feed given to gestating sows. Very easy to overfeed them, not only do they get too fat, the litter size can be reduced and her lactation effected. You mentioned you were a beginner, read busy reading up on nutrition. Feed is a major cost element and at 1.5ton each per year a sow is an expensive beast to feed.

I had a guy feeding our pigs. He was giving a sow just recently rejoined the same amount of feed as he fed her when she was nursing her last litter. The nett effect was about a 30% overfeeding cost.

Net return is also effected by the average parity of your sows. You should look at the replacement planning of sows and gilts to average a parity level of 2 to 3 across the herd. Maximum piglet output is normally at parity 2 to 4. Gilts deliver fewer piglets. I work on a herd average number of 9 piglets weaned per litter as the goal.

The short answer is reduce your costs and provide something perceived as better.

I did mention the absolute failure the 1st time . Now with only the breeding pigs , and selling the piglets we are doing fine . The profit margin was very healthy also . Sure i look at feedcosts vs income from the piglet since these are basically the only expenses .

So , i want to extend the business . Maybe that livestock development office is something . Otherwise i will check some very large producers in the neighbourhood .

[COXYATCITY]

Probably a stupid question , but is there something like a market for pigs ..

After trying and failing miserably the 1st try ( due to all beginner errors ) , we did do a 2nd try but now for breeding pigs . We just sold out the 1st lot and with a healthy margin. They all went to local people so this is only possible for low nr's . Extending the business , would provide a healthy income , if we can sell it . I'm pretty sure for let's say , 20 or 30 per month but what about larger nr's ?

Stock market for pigs? I doubt it, none around me. I assume you mean nett return (nr's)?

20 to 30 piglets per month means you will need 12 sows plus. It also would mean an average of 10 local customers per month. If you sell at weaning plus a week or so. Each repeat customer would revisit every 4 months at the earliest, assume 5. That means you need a minimum of 50 customers taking an average of 2 piglets each.

"If we can sell it" indeed. Check the local livestock development office and the net for statistics on the number of farmers raising pigs in your area. Is it satisfied by the local breeding farms? How many people are contract growing?

Can you raise the nett return? Yes, reduce your cost base and offer something the customer is willing to pay more for. Get rid of the poor performers at first opportunity for any return you can. Look at what supplementary feed you can make or grow.

In my opinion too many people look only at the gross income against the feed bill. As a breeder, and I am still guilty of this, it is all too easy to hold stock that has little chance of making a return on cost. Giving a sow another chance is a 5 to 6 month feed commitment. Cull them if in any doubt.

One thing to watch very carefully is the amount of feed given to gestating sows. Very easy to overfeed them, not only do they get too fat, the litter size can be reduced and her lactation effected. You mentioned you were a beginner, read busy reading up on nutrition. Feed is a major cost element and at 1.5ton each per year a sow is an expensive beast to feed.

I had a guy feeding our pigs. He was giving a sow just recently rejoined the same amount of feed as he fed her when she was nursing her last litter. The nett effect was about a 30% overfeeding cost.

Net return is also effected by the average parity of your sows. You should look at the replacement planning of sows and gilts to average a parity level of 2 to 3 across the herd. Maximum piglet output is normally at parity 2 to 4. Gilts deliver fewer piglets. I work on a herd average number of 9 piglets weaned per litter as the goal.

The short answer is reduce your costs and provide something perceived as better.

I did mention the absolute failure the 1st time . Now with only the breeding pigs , and selling the piglets we are doing fine . The profit margin was very healthy also . Sure i look at feedcosts vs income from the piglet since these are basically the only expenses .

So , i want to extend the business . Maybe that livestock development office is something . Otherwise i will check some very large producers in the neighbourhood .

profit margains very healthy at the moment,good luck to you.. ,stick with it ,though this year has been very hard for most of us

[IsaanAussie]

Coxy I am with you, this last year has been very hard. I consider myself lucky the way things have panned out though. Hopefully things will stay according to plan. Even just for a little while would be nice.

[IsaanAussie]

Yesterday a sow delivered five healthy boars. Yes only five. She is a great mother and a very docile pig. At fourth parity and diminsishing litter size, decision time looms. If you do the math, she had produced 14 piglets in the last year and assuming all the new ones reach weaning which they should do, the average cost of her piglets is around 1,100 baht. Industry standard prices for piglets is 1,700 baht so there is still a profit.

So what to do?

I am in a transition phase of changing the herd over. If she was to throw another litter of five, then her cost per piglet annually would be closer to 1,500 baht.

What would you do?

[sezze]

Yesterday a sow delivered five healthy boars. Yes only five. She is a great mother and a very docile pig. At fourth parity and diminsishing litter size, decision time looms. If you do the math, she had produced 14 piglets in the last year and assuming all the new ones reach weaning which they should do, the average cost of her piglets is around 1,100 baht. Industry standard prices for piglets is 1,700 baht so there is still a profit.

So what to do?

I am in a transition phase of changing the herd over. If she was to throw another litter of five, then her cost per piglet annually would be closer to 1,500 baht.

What would you do?

Give it more more chance . Like you say , you still make a healthy profit ( for me 500 baht or more per piglet is a good profit margin ) , and even if she has same next time you will still have a profit however it is getting close to 0 . 4 times she has piglets , which is quite fast for a drop back . Also , it has been a very hot season , maybe this is also worth considering .

[jompa67]

Yesterday a sow delivered five healthy boars. Yes only five. She is a great mother and a very docile pig. At fourth parity and diminsishing litter size, decision time looms. If you do the math, she had produced 14 piglets in the last year and assuming all the new ones reach weaning which they should do, the average cost of her piglets is around 1,100 baht. Industry standard prices for piglets is 1,700 baht so there is still a profit.

So what to do?

I am in a transition phase of changing the herd over. If she was to throw another litter of five, then her cost per piglet annually would be closer to 1,500 baht.

What would you do?

There is many reasons for why she only produce 5 piglets. The time after insemination is critical so if she get to much food, her body temperature will increase and embryos will have hard time to survive. Another reason can be a late insemination where the amount of eggs have decrease. So don't blame the sow, give her at least one more change.

[IsaanAussie]

Come on guys, you two are like me just a soft hearted pig framer way too attached to his breeding stock. Just joking, you have hit both nails on the head, she isnt going anywhere.

I mate my pigs naturally and will offer the boar to a sow as many times as she will stand. My previous Thai helper thought that once was enough. To him entry is success well from my personal experience on the human side of things it takes two to tango. Everything about that farrowing was textbook, no mummified pigs, no still births, just five very healthy 1.8 kg piglets.

If there is a profit at all, then costs are covered and opportunity exists to improve the return.

Feed, another one that I put down to my ex-man, he really did like the pigs, a farang was buying the food, so he fed them whenever they asked, and more than they wanted. His version, "When the pigs have enough to eat they never boxing or noisey". I printed off pages of Thai manuals to make him understand but eh... boring, a story we all know too well.

[pigeonjake]

hi guys,

well im in scotland working for a while, yes i still go go to work when i get offerd a good job,ill be here for aprox 4 months,

my wife was on the phone the other day to tell me the pig man is coming to buy our 13 ready pigs at 56bht kilo, so im happy with that at the moment,

things have been going pritty good on our farm, its been a year now and we are both learing more and more, ive got a vet now, and she is also my feed supplier, so and listen to this, she has been to us 3 times and never charged me yet, lucky man,

we did try and breed our own pigs but i thought the risk was to much, our first 2 sows one had 6 beautiful piglets then the other 2 weeks later had 1 still born, so i said to my wife we,ll get rid of the sows and just buy them in, so thats what we do,

like i say there will be 13 going monday, that will leave her with 19 for the month after and 21 after that, but of course she will be buying another lot when this 13 go,

i get them at a good price, when we go i get first pick of what piglets are on offer, last time i bought 20 with 1 free and we had 2 die out of them all the other growing very well,

im at work at the moment on nites when i get on my own pc ill post some pics, its not a palace and i built it all myself, but its ours and we love doing the farm, and it does make money,

so lets just hope the price of pork keeps going up,

live with the smell its great, take care all jake

[COXYATCITY]

Hello Jake and the rest of the guys, i have a similar story to yours ,we bought them in to fatten,and bought 3 sows,which we did not have any luck with as we did not know enough about breeding,the 3 of them failed due to being overweight i think.+ lack of knowledge,so we stopped and carried on buying them in for a long time,which was driving me crazy,with the price of the piglets going up,then when grown the price of pork went down.lost money,when pork was 72 baht ,piglets were costing me 2300 bt 12 kg,s,from a big company in kassang (buriram)the price came down with the price of pork,we had another supplier from a medium size farm in Praconchai ,(buriram) he was always18-1900 for piglets,but 2 many times they were under weight but good pigs.we got fed up with people we were buying from,so my wife went to the technology college in Surin to learn about breeding properly,so know we have 30 breeding sows.which is going quite good.4-7 litters per month,we have not been doing it long,but now the sows are starting to have there 2nd litters.we have lost a lot of money along the way,but things are starting to work out now,we have learned from the mistakes e.g we have learned to become our own vet which is the same as most people,but in pig farming we are always learnig,,now we slaughter a pig every 1-2 days and sell it buy the side of the road,we also sell pig food now as well,,from the Thai foods company,which is grade A (they sell grade N as well),and better and cheaper than the last food we were using called jojo feed,a sow gave birth to 11 piglets 3 days ago,1 is giving birth as i am writing this,our record is 14 ,she had 16 but 2 were still born,but we have also had a 3 and 6 ... hope all works out well for us all,good luck for the future bye Ian. here is a pic of the 14,a few hours old

[pigeonjake]

hi all, just thought ide put a pic on to show me, when we did have a go at breeding, i just buy in now,

take care all,,, jake

[IsaanAussie]

Fantastic news guys, we Isaan pigfarmers are finally getting it together. Last time we spoke Coxy all was not so good, I am so pleased you turned it around. See, the harder you try, the luckier you get.

I am sure others would be interested in your slaughter through sale process. This is something we have not focused on here and I think the time is right.

My main meat customer base is in Bangkok and Pattaya. These guys are professionals and have been very supportive but the world is turning and I can improve my pork by improving my "Thai" style process to be more western. I am working on achieving that affordably. Getting close.

There is also a fast growing farm to table market for pork which I will struggle to keep up to. Perhaps we need to get our heads together on this, so anyone interested in pork instead of pig prices can drop me a PM. Sorry but this is business and not for the public domain, at least not yet!

I am also interested in talking to anyone with pellet making capacity. Again please contact me by PM if you have the gear.

[pigeonjake]

hi coxy and the rest of the boys,

me and the wife have been talking about having a pig or 2 killed per week to sell from home, we have found out were the slouter house is in wangnamyen, it costs 200bht per head to be done, then we could butcher it up ourselfs,ive tild her when i get home ill build a butcher shed on our land, even if just family and freinds came to buy im sure we could do 2 a week, im just worried that if we sell for say 100bht a kilo would it upset the people on the mkts, but like you say IA we are in bussines, so im afraid that will be the way we will be going, if you had 70% meat ratio from your 100kilo pig that would be 7000bht a head, big differance from 5,600,

take care all, keep shuveling the s--t lol jake

[pigeonjake]

sorry about my spelling, i cant spell at the best of times without sitting here in scotland on nights on a power station,

jake

[COXYATCITY]

hello guys. Jake becareful with jealous people they may call the police to you or something.you have to get a licience to slaughter on your land.i think we pay 500 baht per year. + 10 baht per pig slaughtered per month,we decared 10 pigs,they do not check so often,,,,,,,if your not selling the meat,but sell whole pigs to the villagers,e,g weddings funerals.etc,you do not have to pay tax or get a licience,but you need inform the headman of the village.,he may give you a letter or get you a letter. so you can do it... we pay people 350 baht to come to our land to slaughter. + butcher..the family will not do it as they have raised them and do not feel good about doing it ,which i understand having seen it many times.,,the local slayghter house is over 20 clicks away,they charge 260 baht + 60 baht tax

good luck guys Ian

[pigeonjake]

thanks for the information coxy,

we get on very well with the head man in the village hes a family freind so we should be ok there, im the same here my wife says bad luck to kill on our land, hence the reason we had to find out about the slaugter house, and to be honest ide sooner they do it there,

but thanks again, thats the way it should be help each other,

jake

[IsaanAussie]

I have been transporting my pigs to have them slaughtered to a local "road side" place. They do a good job and butcher to Western primal cuts. But there are a few issues that you should look at. First is stress, I spend a lot of time with a pig before the day so it is relaxed when loaded. But there is still some stress in the ride to "Doom". A stressed animal doesnt not make good meat.

Second is hanging the carcass through rigormortis which definitely makes a big difference. Of course that means chilling the meat becomes more difficult.

Currently I am planning to slaughter onsite (rent-an-assassin) and to build a coolroom in which to chill and storage carcasses for several days before butchery.

As if I haven't got enough to do, of well, the customer is always right!

[IsaanAussie]

Latest from my place. I have five Duroc boar piglets now about a week old. As a batch I intend to grow them out. So if anyone is interested in buying a boar let me know.

I have also found a $300 dollar control unit that will turn a domestic AC unit into a cold room chiller. 2x2 mtere 3 m high cold room at 3C with a 12,000Btu Tesco AC. How about that?

[ib1b4]

Latest from my place. I have five Duroc boar piglets now about a week old. As a batch I intend to grow them out. So if anyone is interested in buying a boar let me know.

I have also found a $300 dollar control unit that will turn a domestic AC unit into a cold room chiller. 2x2 mtere 3 m high cold room at 3C with a 12,000Btu Tesco AC. How about that?

Good find Tony, Looks like the cool room project will become a reality in the not to distant future.

[IsaanAussie]

Well it looks like the slide in prices has started. Attached is the latest swine associtaion regional price list.

Personally I expected the drop to start early this year, hopefully it is just a blip.

Pig Prices 4 June 2012.pdf

IA

[pigeonjake]

hi mate, you just saved me mailing you IA just been speaking to the wife and as you know weve got 13 ready to go, and she told me the pig man only say 53bht,

i told her youve got to let tem go darling, bless her, she say last week was 58,

thanks for the info, jake

[IsaanAussie]

I am looking for 40 to 45 kg Duroc pigs. Come up short for a customer so if I can get a couple it would help.

[Brabo]

I am looking for 40 to 45 kg Duroc pigs. Come up short for a customer so if I can get a couple it would help.

Sorry, I cannot help you out for the moment. I hope we can do business together in the future.

[revar]

Local guys now buying at 47 bath/kilo. Official farm price 57 on swinethailand. Has the price dropped that steep in the last month? And isn't it very early on the year for the prices tobe that low.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

Local guys now buying at 47 bath/kilo. Official farm price 57 on swinethailand. Has the price dropped that steep in the last month? And isn't it very early on the year for the prices tobe that low.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

Revar,

Understand what you are looking at. The industry body numbers are based on regional "official trading" numbers not individual farm gate prices. Here it is the price that the official slaughterhouse pays.

Second point, here is Isaan is rain fed rice planting and fertilising season not much pork being bought and a way off to lent.

Third point, I wish anyone good luck if they can stay in business at 47 baht. There are always two answers, yes and no. Guess which one I would give? To tell you the truth it would be neither, I would advise the prospective buyer to go do something fundamental to his left shoe!

[Brabo]

Local guys now buying at 47 bath/kilo. Official farm price 57 on swinethailand. Has the price dropped that steep in the last month? And isn't it very early on the year for the prices tobe that low.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

Revar,

Understand what you are looking at. The industry body numbers are based on regional "official trading" numbers not individual farm gate prices. Here it is the price that the official slaughterhouse pays.

Second point, here is Isaan is rain fed rice planting and fertilising season not much pork being bought and a way off to lent.

Third point, I wish anyone good luck if they can stay in business at 47 baht. There are always two answers, yes and no. Guess which one I would give? To tell you the truth it would be neither, I would advise the prospective buyer to go do something fundamental to his left shoe!

I sold today @ 65 Baht

My buyers know they get the quality they want and don't discuss the prices. They only buy at other farms in the neighborhood at smaller prices if I cannot delliver.

It is my mother in law who does the negotiations ( If I look at the prices she gets, she must be a stonecold ...) ;-)

I am totally sold-out for the moment,

I had 3 litters born the last 2 months and 1 gilt will farrow next month. I hope everithing turns out well.

We are all growing our pigs with love, attention and the best (=expensive) food so: DON'T SELL AT THESE SMALL PRICES !!!