Pigs 101 (A Start)

[chrisnouy]

Without seeing it, I cannot tell. It could be algae. Google duckweed images and then compare. Yes you can harvest it.

thanks for reply

I had a quick look this morning and most is algae but there is a fair amount of wind blown duck weed at one end of the dam-- i think

I will collect some later and compare with i/net images

I remember that i had two ornamental large clay tanks with tiny fish at my last house and one was inundated with duck weed and as fast as i scooped it off it grew again

[chrisnouy]

Reason I asked was that the first sows i bought were from a guy at university ag dept He had bred using improrted semen-- or so he said

They were /are magnificent ladies Ive also had some piglets from other sows bought from him and ai-ed by him and they were good But he now wants 1000baht a pop

i am breeding and raising the pigs for market so improving my stock is always on my mind My other Ai option locally is okay at 700baht but i was looking for variety

I wont buy anything else locally as i got alot of rubbish along with the good and have culled at least 60% of my breeding stock after first litter to date

we are now breeding all our own sows but its a bit hit and miss

But at 4000 a tube i,m certainly not interested

But am still interested in good local semen at right price

700 THB is way to much for AI. In the big farms you pay normally about 250 to 300 THB. Another sollution might be buying semen from the Department of Livestock. This would be the cheapest sollution.

Where is your farm located? If you are in the envirement of Chiang Mai I know another good adress for you.

Frank

thanks for this info frank I thought we were paying overs. Sadly I am about 8 hrs from Chiang Mai! I am 'near' Khon kaen( 90km) and quite isolated so if anybody has info about this area i would be very grateful

Iits been a helterskelter ride for 18 months having nearly got wiped out in the process and i have had to move our operation in its entireity to higher ground My initial buildings were on ground we raised--and the Thai connection was "sure it would not flood as it only floods every 8 years and it never comes this high" Then last year we had the monster

As a result my breeding schedule is shot to bits and my information gathering has been sporadic Will try to find local agriculture dept

meanwhile i keep reading and am grateful that you guys share so willingly-- all suggestions welcome

[chrisnouy]

WOW, you guys have been busy this morning. First the tome on probiotics. Cant dispute what they claim but I see it cast in the light of the research funding source, guess who? A probiotic brewing company. No wonder it is so hard for anyone to get it to work. Dont even try it, just buy our freeze dried wonder dust, Poppycock!

I brew the stuff on site and put a litre in each 1,000 litre drinking water tank. The system self propetuates all I do is input more feed materials for the culture when the tanks are 50% used. They eat pig feed and brown sugar, they also eat rice wash water. Those who use EM will known that you can brew your own or your can buy the dormant culture for 50 baht a litre and multiple it out. Mine costs me 3 baht a litre.

The report doesnt not say anything about odour control or improved FCR's. It doesnt mention that the LAB accumulates in the pigs colon and improves digestion. It does mention the difficulties in freeze drying the stuff and storing it etc.. Well I dont have that problem as it used immediately in the water.

The implication is it must be used in a wet feeding system. Cant argue as that would work, but I am not changing feeding systems. I need the stuff to be viable in pelleted feed form.

So the real issues aren't how hard it is to brew the stuff because it isnt. You need to control forming temperatures so the microbes aren't cooked. You need to control moisture content so the feed doesnt mould and the microbes spore and go dormant. You need to control storage temperature of the feed so the microbes survive for a reasonable amount of time and provide some form of innoculant to prolong that period.

In a preparing the feed there is an opportunity to improve the digestibility of the raw materials by fermenting them in guess what? The probiotic! By fertilising my pond with effluent from the septic tanks on the sty I do two things, feed fish with natural foods that consume the nutrients and I boast the protein level in aquatic plants like duckweed to a point it is richer than soybean meal. I can harvest half my pond a day of duckweed and use it as an alternative feed source, if I ferment it as well more of the crude protein is useable. If I raise BSF larvae and cook that I can replace fish meal.

All the while the bacteria is out competing the nasty stuff inside the pig and I dont need antibiotics regularly, the growth hormones I dont need at all because the pig gets more out of its feed and as the nitrogen components are being used up, less smell.

I have read many of articles like this that to me present a commercial interest. I have also read research materials that have done much to solve the real issues. In the day when life was more leisurely, farmers used to grow and cook vegetables and grains to feed their pigs. The pigs were more resilient and performed slower but there was a profit to be gained and natural ethically raised pork available.

But get this, one thing that was used often to feed pigs was fermented cabbage leaves, the spoilt outer leaves and trim. The pigs did well because guess what occurs naturally ib cabbage? LAB...

Do I know it all, hell no heaps to learn. But I do know this, that if your can integrate your farming activities and waste nothing you can save external expenses and even make money by onselling the byproducts.

Pig and fish feed here I come!

Hi Issan aussie

Just been reading this post and am fascinated by duckweed as i had no idea what it was .

we started with pigs and fish 18 months ago just pumping the pig effluent into a couple of ponds where we had tilapai and catfish

cat fish seem to survive anything tilapia a bit different

i didnt realise the green stuff on the water surface is duckweed???

We got really badly washed away in the flood last year dams washed away and pig pens under water

Luckily we didnt lose the hogs but at presnt i have no fish but have a large pond with a beautiful green surface Is this duckweed

Can i harvest this??

Hi Isaan aussie

I have again been reading your posts with great interest

Am i to understand that i can produce a strain of lactobacillus by decomposing vegetable matter eg cabbage? and then reproducing it ad nauseam like yeast?

Ps I read somewhere your post about cornflakes boxes containing more nutrient than the corn flakes I tried to tell school kids that for 37 years-- but you are the first person who i've come accross who had ever heard of it

[Falang Nang Fa]

Reason I asked was that the first sows i bought were from a guy at university ag dept He had bred using improrted semen-- or so he said

They were /are magnificent ladies Ive also had some piglets from other sows bought from him and ai-ed by him and they were good But he now wants 1000baht a pop

i am breeding and raising the pigs for market so improving my stock is always on my mind My other Ai option locally is okay at 700baht but i was looking for variety

I wont buy anything else locally as i got alot of rubbish along with the good and have culled at least 60% of my breeding stock after first litter to date

we are now breeding all our own sows but its a bit hit and miss

But at 4000 a tube i,m certainly not interested

But am still interested in good local semen at right price

700 THB is way to much for AI. In the big farms you pay normally about 250 to 300 THB. Another sollution might be buying semen from the Department of Livestock. This would be the cheapest sollution.

Where is your farm located? If you are in the envirement of Chiang Mai I know another good adress for you.

Frank

thanks for this info frank I thought we were paying overs. Sadly I am about 8 hrs from Chiang Mai! I am 'near' Khon kaen( 90km) and quite isolated so if anybody has info about this area i would be very grateful

Iits been a helterskelter ride for 18 months having nearly got wiped out in the process and i have had to move our operation in its entireity to higher ground My initial buildings were on ground we raised--and the Thai connection was "sure it would not flood as it only floods every 8 years and it never comes this high" Then last year we had the monster

As a result my breeding schedule is shot to bits and my information gathering has been sporadic Will try to find local agriculture dept

meanwhile i keep reading and am grateful that you guys share so willingly-- all suggestions welcome

yesterday I followed a seminary about AI at Department of Livestock in Nakhon Ratchasima.

I spoke there with the speaker that wash specialised in AI and he told me that AI is good when you can do it yourself and with pure breedings or make a race better.

At the moment is it so that a cross from Landrace/Large White with a Duroc male is not any more actual.

The next generation for finishing piglets is cross with Pakchong breed. They have less fat, more meat and nice red, they eat less food and become faster bigger. Everything what a finishing farmer wants.

Because the Pakchong male is not yet so much available on the market, many breeding farms use AI for this.

At this seminar they could tell us that, when there is enough question to have semen in Livestock Khon Kaen, They can see if it can be arranged, that breeders can pick it up there.

An other solution is also http://www.pornchaiinter.com (was also at this seminar)

I don't have any intrest in this business, but when I need something special, mostly they can help me good and fast, and send it with the mail.

Edited July 17, 2012 by CPPFarm

[Brabo]

Does anyone have more info on this "Pakchong breed" ?

I have good contacts with Pornchaiinter and they never spoke me about this.

[IsaanAussie]

Hi Isaan aussie

I have again been reading your posts with great interest

Am i to understand that i can produce a strain of lactobacillus by decomposing vegetable matter eg cabbage? and then reproducing it ad nauseam like yeast?

Ps I read somewhere your post about cornflakes boxes containing more nutrient than the corn flakes I tried to tell school kids that for 37 years-- but you are the first person who i've come accross who had ever heard of it

There are many ways you can brew/ferment bacteria. There are heaps of starting points. It depends what you want to use it for. Most Korean and Japanese natural farming techniques are effectively a one shot process, not self sustaining. The main process I use required a starting culture, antioxidants and feed. It now is permanent with replenishment of feed and water as the culture is drawn off. I can stabilise the culture to produce an EM like product as well which will shelf store for 2 to 3 years.

Cornflakes here would have to be the most expensive cardboard in the world!

[IsaanAussie]

Does anyone have more info on this "Pakchong breed" ?

I have good contacts with Pornchaiinter and they never spoke me about this.

Try this document on the determination of breeding genetics for the Pakchong 3. It is in Thai but there is an English cover sheet on page 2.

http://www.dld.go.th/research-AHD/research/Webpage/2547/Genetics%20Analysis%20of%20Pakchong%203%20Swine.pdf

[pigeonjake]

bloody norra,

theres some clever blokes on here,

that means nothing to me,,lol

i think me sticks to buying in

[Brabo]

Does anyone have more info on this "Pakchong breed" ?

I have good contacts with Pornchaiinter and they never spoke me about this.

Try this document on the determination of breeding genetics for the Pakchong 3. It is in Thai but there is an English cover sheet on page 2.

http://www.dld.go.th...ong 3 Swine.pdf

Ok, Thanks

It seems that it's a "new breed", made from Large White and Pietrain. For the moment only in Korat. This combination is used in Europe for a long time.

The Pietrain is the Belgian "replacer" for the Duroc.

Such a small country I am comming from, but what a quality

[chrisnouy]

By coincidence a dutch friend visited me on sunday When he saw my black , brown and white pigs which i thought were poland china duroc large white mix breeds he told me about a breed which he called ??/ portrainer ??-- which was the main meat pig in Holland. been around for a long time apparently

Why was the Duroc 'replaced'?

[Brabo]

By coincidence a dutch friend visited me on sunday When he saw my black , brown and white pigs which i thought were poland china duroc large white mix breeds he told me about a breed which he called ??/ portrainer ??-- which was the main meat pig in Holland. been around for a long time apparently

Why was the Duroc 'replaced'?

Post or PM me a few pics of these pigs. I am interested.

I have only knowledge of Pietrain(=portren?) It is the main finishing breed in Holland.

The Pietrain is from Belgian origine, so more used in Europe.

The Duroc has Canadian origine and more used in the states.

Duroc and Pietrain are both used as finishing boars.

With replaced I meant that in Thailand, Duroc was used and now they try with Pietrain.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Brabo

[IsaanAussie]

I think it has a lot to do with issues such as the swing to lean pork internationally. All the health issues that caused that swing have been discredited but has left a divided market.

Durocs carry more fat as adults but as growers and finishers, traditional ham pigs, their meat is valued by chefs for the fat, meat colour and texture.

Strange here really as a pig is reduced to cubes regardless of its breed and only 100 to 110 kg pigs traded. Equally strange is to watch Thai people go for the fat first!

There is also a trend in introducing all things new and unique, a search for face perhaps, by the educated Thais. More imported breeding stock from genetically modified lines. But reality is market pig prices are still the same.

Go figure...

[Brabo]

There is also a trend in introducing all things new and unique, a search for face perhaps, by the educated Thais. More imported breeding stock from genetically modified lines. But reality is market pig prices are still the same.

Go figure...

Exactly IA !!!

I have Pietrain as wel, becourse I beleve it's an exeptional breed but also becourse I am Belgian to . We can speak the same language

[IsaanAussie]

I got durocs because of the meat quality despite their reputation, but I doubt I will change soon because I really enjoy their nature. I have a landrace boar that on the other hand you can have, noisy grizzling thing it is. Two crossed sows with landrace are the same. No I will stick with my quiet, friendly Durocs. More like dogs than pigs, really affectionate. Tasty too!

[Brabo]

Check out http://www.rakbankerd.com for the official prices every day.

Today the price for live pigs in Thailand varied from 54 to 66 THB/kg. A big difference, I think.

Maybe a backup to sell at higher prices?

Frank

Edited July 19, 2012 by Brabo

[IsaanAussie]

Check out http://www.rakbankerd.com for the official prices every day.

Today the price for live pigs in Thailand varied from 54 to 66 THB/kg. A big difference, I think.

Maybe a backup to sell at higher prices?

Frank

This difference is normal. Sell in Chiang Mai or sell in Isaan. TIT, prices go with the territory and the pocket books. I am in Isaan as are you, we are approaching lent and the prices will go down. Don't think backup plan, think basic market!

[Brabo]

Check out http://www.rakbankerd.com for the official prices every day.

Today the price for live pigs in Thailand varied from 54 to 66 THB/kg. A big difference, I think.

Maybe a backup to sell at higher prices?

Frank

This difference is normal. Sell in Chiang Mai or sell in Isaan. TIT, prices go with the territory and the pocket books. I am in Isaan as are you, we are approaching lent and the prices will go down. Don't think backup plan, think basic market!

This price @ 66 THB is in Buriram (Isaan as you know)

Edited July 19, 2012 by Brabo

[revar]

Buyers around here Dankhuntod vary between 47 and 60. The one buying at 47 tells everybody that the prices have dropped. She was the highest paying buyer a couple of months ago buying only 2 bath between official cp price. Now that people ask for/trust her she tries this. I am collecting addresses from sites with prices to show her. She always buys 40+ pigs so peple check with us first. I thinks she teucks them to a higher price region.

The lesson is to always ask for prices from as many buyers as possible.

Frank, I cant read thai, can you post the excact link to the subpage with prices?

Btw my twlephone and therefor internet were broken, thats why I have been quiet.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Brabo]

Buyers around here Dankhuntod vary between 47 and 60. The one buying at 47 tells everybody that the prices have dropped. She was the highest paying buyer a couple of months ago buying only 2 bath between official cp price. Now that people ask for/trust her she tries this. I am collecting addresses from sites with prices to show her. She always buys 40+ pigs so peple check with us first. I thinks she teucks them to a higher price region.

The lesson is to always ask for prices from as many buyers as possible.

Frank, I cant read thai, can you post the excact link to the subpage with prices?

Btw my twlephone and therefor internet were broken, thats why I have been quiet.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

http://www.rakbankerd.com/view-price-iphone.php?ic=2 open it with google chrome and you have automatic translations.

[Brabo]

Check out http://www.rakbankerd.com for the official prices every day.

Today the price for live pigs in Thailand varied from 54 to 66 THB/kg. A big difference, I think.

Maybe a backup to sell at higher prices?

Frank

This difference is normal. Sell in Chiang Mai or sell in Isaan. TIT, prices go with the territory and the pocket books. I am in Isaan as are you, we are approaching lent and the prices will go down. Don't think backup plan, think basic market!

This price @ 66 THB is in Buriram (Isaan as you know)

@ 60THB/kg is a farm in Sisaket

Edited July 19, 2012 by Brabo

[Brabo]

Buyers around here Dankhuntod vary between 47 and 60. The one buying at 47 tells everybody that the prices have dropped. She was the highest paying buyer a couple of months ago buying only 2 bath between official cp price. Now that people ask for/trust her she tries this. I am collecting addresses from sites with prices to show her. She always buys 40+ pigs so peple check with us first. I thinks she teucks them to a higher price region.

The lesson is to always ask for prices from as many buyers as possible.

Frank, I cant read thai, can you post the excact link to the subpage with prices?

Btw my twlephone and therefor internet were broken, thats why I have been quiet.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

http://www.rakbanker...iphone.php?ic=2 open it with google chrome and you have automatic translations ( or ask the wife same me )

Those are common practices by sharks. 47 is a verry low price!

This site shows the prices in detail from many different farms in Thailand.

You can call or PM me anytime

[Brabo]

Verry quiet on this forum.

Is no news, good news ?

[revar]

Difficult to type. Scorpion stung my finger.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[revar]

A week ago there was a problem at the local watertower which mend that the whole village did not have running water for 3 days. I had to truck in water for the pigs. Urgently gote a 24m borehole drilled and finished the waterpipes today. Powered up the gasoline powered pump and have a lot of nice cold water. Happy amd proud since I did most one-handed because of a scorpion sting .

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[revar]

Just ordered 10 new piglets to ne delivered in two weeks at around 12+ kg. They are supposed to be 50% packchong and 50% duroc. Sound like a very good combination.

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[Falang Nang Fa]

Maybe interesting for finishing pigfarmers to see the pig prices in the world.

http://www.pig333.com/markets_and_prices/asia

For those how it's interesting: 7 piglets for sale crossed LW and Duroc. Only 1 is spotted.

[IsaanAussie]

Revar, been there done that with the scorpion bites, man that hurts and does not go away quickly, you have my sympathy.

CPPFarm, I used to follow the pig333 site for prices but since last quarter of last year their reporting on Thai prices has been rubbish. No idea on the rest of the world. If you want current prices follow the CP or Betagro lists or swinethailand for details regionally.

Any body else who wants piglets I have about 20 or so available as well. Boars and gilts.

[Brabo]

Just ordered 10 new piglets to ne delivered in two weeks at around 12+ kg. They are supposed to be 50% packchong and 50% duroc. Sound like a very good combination.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

He Revar,

I tryed to call you but cannot get connection. Can you call me?

Verry Interrested in this Packchong.

Please post some pics when they are delivered.

Frank

[Brabo]

Revar, been there done that with the scorpion bites, man that hurts and does not go away quickly, you have my sympathy.

CPPFarm, I used to follow the pig333 site for prices but since last quarter of last year their reporting on Thai prices has been rubbish. No idea on the rest of the world. If you want current prices follow the CP or Betagro lists or swinethailand for details regionally.

Any body else who wants piglets I have about 20 or so available as well. Boars and gilts.

As I said before. Keep an eye open for a nice (uncastrated) Duroc boar for me. Will bye one from you sure.

Frank

[Brabo]

Difficult to type. Scorpion stung my finger.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

Oauch !!!