Bangkok’s CentralWorld Reopens Today

[ryladie99]

I suspect women only parking is to avoid weirdos, assaults and the like.

As for Central World re-opening, good. I will visit next time I am in Bangkok. I just hope that everyone who lost their job when it was torched has found a new one, or has been offered their old one back.

Count me in I know how to park like this picture.....you all know why???

My heart and Soul go for the people who lost jobs around the world and also Bangkok.

A person who lost his or her job.....

He or she will encounter several problems as well....as such...home, marriage, education, hope and....it is going to take longer to find another job at this moment. But, I wish everyone found one....

Me too, I will visit Thailand again...she is always in my Heart....

Thanks for posting....

[ryladie99]

Don't tell the wife

The wife loves to read Thai magazines so, she will know...shopping is the most enjoyable moment. ( after the housework done, no maid at this point )

Wow,wow and wow???

[ianbaggie]

Time to get your facts right - The rioting in france was from mainly north African - Morrocan, Algerian immigrants and in London from mainly West Indian and pakistanis. = you see we LET foreigners have rights in the west!!

[rubl]

Time to get your facts right - The rioting in france was from mainly north African - Morrocan, Algerian immigrants and in London from mainly West Indian and pakistanis. = you see we LET foreigners have rights in the west!!

Not foreigners! Most likely those you mentioned had a valid passport for either the UK or France

Edited September 29, 2010 by rubl

[PatLogan]

Time to get your facts right - The rioting in france was from mainly north African - Morrocan, Algerian immigrants and in London from mainly West Indian and pakistanis. = you see we LET foreigners have rights in the west!!

Not foreigners! Most likely those you mentioned had a valid passport for either the UK or France

As for France, most of them (if not nearly all) had French passports. They are as much French as I am, second of third generation probably.

But again, it seems for some the fact they have a different skin colour makes them less French or even make them foreigners...

Edited September 29, 2010 by PatLogan

[ianbaggie]

Hereiam- yes and there you are with the typical attitude of - Hereiam im blameless how can you judge me. Possibly the reason why Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos are rising so quickly. Just be glad men DO come here otherwise half your national income would disappear. You talk about the west as though its the same as Thailand - have a look at a map - get a feel for the scale - then look at population sizes - look at Africa, THEN Look at Russia, America, Europe, Canada, compare it and what have come out of those places to contribute to the world - then stand back and look at Thailand and think about growing rice and selling daughters. I think even you may start to feel humble - then finally think on how those foriegners are treated when they come here. Think of the pure racism in the word "Farang" often twinned with the word "moo" and wonder no more at why people like me resent their experiences here and vow never to return to the country - and havent now for 9 years. Oh and by the way - i noticed you didnt comment on the behaviour of the Police - just doing their job by taking bribes maybe? - your Problem is you cant take the truth.

[ianbaggie]

RUBI & PAT LOGAN - seems to me your getting the message - YESSSS!! we LET foriegners have passports - now where can I go to get one in Thailand - even if im married to a Thai and have a baby with her thats BORN in Thailand. or do they think Fathers just disappear?? time for some serious reflection on just how stupid we are in the west to foriegners coming into our country - we should apply the same standards to them maybe - or is that level of equality racist??

[rubl]

RUBI & PAT LOGAN - seems to me your getting the message - YESSSS!! we LET foriegners have passports - now where can I go to get one in Thailand - even if im married to a Thai and have a baby with her thats BORN in Thailand. or do they think Fathers just disappear?? time for some serious reflection on just how stupid we are in the west to foriegners coming into our country - we should apply the same standards to them maybe - or is that level of equality racist??

The fact that some Western countries were a bit easy, or forced by their own laws to be easy, doesn't mean Thailand has to. In lots of Western countries immigration laws have been 'fine tuned' in the last decade. Mind you I agree that Thailand is really xenophobic in some matters.

Edited September 29, 2010 by rubl

[PatLogan]

RUBI & PAT LOGAN - seems to me your getting the message - YESSSS!! we LET foriegners have passports - now where can I go to get one in Thailand - even if im married to a Thai and have a baby with her thats BORN in Thailand. or do they think Fathers just disappear?? time for some serious reflection on just how stupid we are in the west to foriegners coming into our country - we should apply the same standards to them maybe - or is that level of equality racist??

Gosh it shows you have no idea what you are speaking about. Most of the so called foreigners you mention rioting in France had their parents or grandparents coming to France after their country were decolonized by France and because we needed the manpower. And like it or not, we will need more immigration soon in France because the population is getting old and according to prediction, in 30 years or less, we will need to get foreign workers to fill up the vacant job.

I won't speak about UK, not my business, but if you want to speak about France, maybe study a bit its history and assimilation approach to immigration first.

As for getting a Thai passport, well, honestly I never felt the need to get one, even if I am the only one in the family who does not have one. And I have no problem in not being able to get one. And it never disturbed me as a father.

Oh and yes, saying the people who were rioting in France are foreigners is not racist, it is simply WRONG.

[ianbaggie]

Deerai - youve hit the nail on the head -

DEMOCRACY is not = to being able to break the law -

NOONE IS ABOVE THE LAW at any time - thats why depose and execute Kings and impeach presidents!!

The difference between westerners and Thais is we had a system called the Feudal system which enfiorced our respect for the law - Many in Asia have never seen this level of disciplined environment that was passed down through generations from Norman and Roman times.

ONCE AGAIN, DEMOCRACY is NOT = to BREAKING THE LAW

[ianbaggie]

PAT LOGAN - ok heres the checkmate !! You walked into your own trap!!

If these people in France are so well assimilated into your culture after 3 generations as you claim. Why do they as a group have grievences? How did they come to be together to identify one another ,form into a group, an plan and take action together. If you question this I can send you numerous links showing the ethnic background of rioters in France. Ill even send you some in FRENCH if you like!! The fact is that Moslems do not lose their culture just because they get a French passport. If we denied them this with their Fathers and Grandfathers there would be more riots in our respective countries.

I suggest you read this post twice and this time think about what the opint of my argument is.

[rubl]

I have been guilty of derailing this topic into a Western countries issue. To my defense I can say, some helped me

Let's get back on track and topic: Bangkok's CentralWorld Reopens Today

[PatLogan]

PAT LOGAN - ok heres the checkmate !! You walked into your own trap!!

If these people in France are so well assimilated into your culture after 3 generations as you claim. Why do they as a group have grievences? How did they come to be together to identify one another ,form into a group, an plan and take action together. If you question this I can send you numerous links showing the ethnic background of rioters in France. Ill even send you some in FRENCH if you like!! The fact is that Moslems do not lose their culture just because they get a French passport. If we denied them this with their Fathers and Grandfathers there would be more riots in our respective countries.

I suggest you read this post twice and this time think about what the opint of my argument is.

Have you ever met some of them or even lived along them? Because it seems you get your facts only from news papers or articles and lack a bit of information about what happens on the ground.

First off you have no idea what the "banlieues" are. They do not group together, they have been living in these poor and shady neighbourhood for decades, as some moronic architects built up the HLM in he 60s thinking they would be a nice place to live while they were creating ghettos. Again, you are mixing up everything: immigrants, Muslims and "banlieusard". A very common generalization I have heard heaps of time in far right politicians in France. Sorry, but that does not work.

As for the assimilation and religaion, yes it is a very interesting question. The fact is, the elder brothers or even fathers of the people you are pointing fingers at only (North African Muslims) had a very different way of seeing things then these kids. And I think since I come fro ma town where probably 20% of the population is coming from North Africa, and went to school wit them, and counted many among my friends, I think I could see how the felt and lived. Drinking wine, eating pork... Problem is, in the late 80s and early 90s, "cellar mosks" funded by the Saudis and hence heavily influenced by Wahhabi. It was easy for them to lure the poorer kids living in these HLM (which were the worst error made ever in modern France in my opinion) and convert them to a hard-line form of Islam. I even had friends who fell for that. So yes, the big issue was not a failed assimilation process, but more a failure to see everybody needs one day to know where he/she comes from., that one cannot leave all their origins behind.

Anyway I have also been lured into derailing this topic, so it will my last reply on the matter here

[TCW]

Just amazing they've got so much rebuilt/reopen already. In a western country the company would still be trying to get a construction/rebuild permit, tied up in court over claims/insurance, etc.

And other bothersome things like a valid post fire structural integrity determination.

I think if the Central family want to do it, they just do it. I wonder if it was even insured.

[pisico]

<br />

<br />

<br />You are comparing apples and oranges, aren't you, contrasting Thailand with America ? This is just what I said, that it is pointless applying American standards to what was quintessentially a Thai situation. The political difficulties and near impossibilities in this part of the world are too complex for the average westerner to comprehend -- as your posts illustrate. Do you see how well you defeat your own argument by saying on the one hand that "in America no protest groups would have been allowed" to do this sort of thing and then accepting that "The government could not act sooner because the army wasn't agreeing to do their job."  When you say "this wouldn't have been permitted in America" (or China, I still enjoy that bracketing) you evidently mean that western standards of democracy and law enforcement (or Chinese methods of force) are so well developed that in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence but even if they did authorities would have used all means to disperse them and bring a swift end to the violence. The army does not interfere in politics. <br /><br />But what do you do when it does ? Thailand is not the sort of democracy as most people understand  democracy. The army is a law unto itself. As you admit, and as everyone could see, the Thai authorities were presented with a different challenge with law enforcing personnel owing allegiance to different powers holding the country to ransom. A result again of the power struggles going on there. To not consider this challenge and then to belittle the Thais by gloating about America is silly. Given the intrinsic challenges of the situation, and the dicey power play, the government did its best to keep things from spinning out of control, although it did take an agonisingly long time for the end game to happen.<br /><br />Incidentally when floods ravaged the city I live in 5 years ago I heard the local media and intellectuals screaming this wouldn't have been allowed to happen in the west -- until Katrina set the record straight. The west has its advantage of wealth and high standards of education, and the extensive reach of this education into the masses, to thank for such domestic violence not happening there. Mostly. Must you gloat ?<br />

<br /><br />To begin with, if you want to talk about apples and oranges, you're trying to compare a natural disaster (Hurricane Katrina) with a man-made fiasco (red shirt demonstrations, riots, and arson).  It's also interesting that the average westerner, according to you, cannot understand the complexities of Thai politics...but of course, you are above all the rest of us and understand it fully.  Which is very perceptive of you, since most Thais don't understand Thai politics and government.<br /><br />No, I never said, "in the first place people wouldn't resort to such violence," because in fact, riots have occurred in the U.S.  But I cannot think of a time in modern U.S. history when a large group of Americans was allowed to essentially shut down a major district and major city transportation for a two-month stretch, or anything approaching it.  <br /><br />I agree that Thai democracy (if it's fair to even call it that) is not western style democracy.  But, at the same time, Thailand likes to pretend it's a western style democracy.  How many times did we hear Mr. Abhisit (whom I am generally in support of) refuse to oust the demonstrators because he said Thailand had to adhere to "international standards"?  Was he talking about African standards?  No.  Middle Eastern standards?  no.  He was talking about western standards.<br /><br />And as to your last point, the government did not, "keep things from spinning out of control".  The violence is considered by Thais and international observers alike to be the worst in modern Thai history.<br /><br />I am not gloating about wonderful things in America.  I'll be more than happy to discuss all of America's shortcomings, and there are many.  But the issue in this thread is the shortcomings of Thailand.<br />

<br /><br />Thanks for your response. <br />Re: Comparing man-made fiasco with a natural disaster, my point -- which I thought you would see  -- was about the response of the administration rather than the event itself. I meant to point out that in the US too the administration failed, if you recall its response to the Katrina disaster, and its handling of relief efforts. Recall how the media and the general public slammed the government for the sense of neglect and worse, the ensuing scams ? Ergo, my earlier point about warts on everybody.<br /><br />No. Nowhere did I claim I understand the complexities of the Thai situation ( or any situation for that matter). I have an open mind that constantly tells me I know nothing, therefore keep my eyes, ears and my mind open and keep learning. I did mention earlier that at the start of the Bangkok mayhem even I was incredulous that the authorities were not acting. My suggestion is that if we look at each individual situation in Thailand, the USA, Africa, China  or anywhere else  we will begin to see how so sharply the dynamics differ from one to another and how wrong we would be to apply standard A in environment B. You would be encouraged to know that when I read the confident posts of many here I do feel small to see how significantly less my own confidence is in comparison.<br /> <br />And as for your point about shortcomings of Thailand.  Yes, Abhisit was indeed talking of western style democracy, and I applaud that here is a man who is working towards an ideal. But remember, he is working TOWARDS it. His steps have to be measured and inclusive. And, as we all know, the power play is complex and multi-faceted. That, I posit, is the reason for the way his administration reponded to the mayhem. You are right that those months saw the worst in modern Thai history. That they didn't get worse is the real achievement. No kidding. Recall the dark warnings of civil war, break-ups and other fearful eventualities of those days, which might well have come to pass if the government had acted more forcefully as the western style democrats would have wanted. So he is clear about his ideal, but he has to navigate the path in a way that the local population -- rather than the western media  -- would accept.<br />

&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /><br />

Katrina hurricane: Clarification. First of all there were numerous warnings from TV networks and the government that evacuation of the city was imperative. Second, the Federal government has made it sufficiently clear for years that it will take at least 72 hours to mobilize Federal resources to the affected area by a disaster. The reason that Federal moneys are given to the states every fiscal cycle for those eventualities. Third: The then governor of the state (not any longer because of her hard core partisan Democratic agenda) told President Bush that the state had sufficient resources and did not need Federal help. That is a matter of record, not opinion. Fourth: Many parishes in New Orleans used their tax money to build levies. Those parishes sustained minimal damage from the hurricane. Those are not wealthy parishes but middle income folks. Others chose to build a new stadium that blew away in the middle of the hurricane. Fifth: New Orleans mayor, the one that called the city a &quot;chocolate city&quot;, parroted the decision of the Democratic governor and shunned President Bush's offers and the warnings of FEMA. Therefore, it is an uninformed comment to speak of Katrina as a failure of the Federal government in USA during that natural disaster to which there were many warnings about it. What does it says of the citizens of New Orleans, the mayor and the then governor of the state? To demonize FEMA, Bush and the USA Federal government is a propaganda tool employed by the Progressives (the new socialists)to reshape the minds of the average people in the USA. To ignore the facts of history is to be an enabler of the same elements to take the reins of the country, as it is happening now in the USA. FYI: I am a former Democrat and an Independent for the past 12 years. My 2 THB.

Edited September 29, 2010 by pisico

[pisico]

<br />Does anyone know if TK Park (Thailand Knowledge Park) is also open.<br /><br />The library in the 8/F of Central World.<br /><br />Thanks.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Any word whether Big C in Makasaan is open for business? I will appreciate the info.

Thanks!

[Deeral]

Deerai - youve hit the nail on the head -

DEMOCRACY is not = to being able to break the law -

NOONE IS ABOVE THE LAW at any time - thats why depose and execute Kings and impeach presidents!!

The difference between westerners and Thais is we had a system called the Feudal system which enfiorced our respect for the law - Many in Asia have never seen this level of disciplined environment that was passed down through generations from Norman and Roman times.

ONCE AGAIN, DEMOCRACY is NOT = to BREAKING THE LAW

I think you need to brush up on your theories of democracy (and the execution of Kings)

[HereIAm]

Hereiam- yes and there you are with the typical attitude of - Hereiam im blameless how can you judge me. Possibly the reason why Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos are rising so quickly. Just be glad men DO come here otherwise half your national income would disappear. You talk about the west as though its the same as Thailand - have a look at a map - get a feel for the scale - then look at population sizes - look at Africa, THEN Look at Russia, America, Europe, Canada, compare it and what have come out of those places to contribute to the world - then stand back and look at Thailand and think about growing rice and selling daughters. I think even you may start to feel humble - then finally think on how those foriegners are treated when they come here. Think of the pure racism in the word "Farang" often twinned with the word "moo" and wonder no more at why people like me resent their experiences here and vow never to return to the country - and havent now for 9 years. Oh and by the way - i noticed you didnt comment on the behaviour of the Police - just doing their job by taking bribes maybe? - your Problem is you cant take the truth.

If you do not take the trouble to carefully read what posters write, I suggest you desist from making childish noises here.

I fail to see what "typical attitude" you are referring to. I did NOT talk of the west as though it were Thailand. It was you and other posters here that were expecting law and order in Thailand to be enforced as if it were the west. Is that so difficult for you to grasp ? It would be, given your predilection to heap scorn on an entire nation.

You say arrogantly "Just be glad men DO come here otherwise half your national income would disappear." Do you really have data to back up this stupid claim and prove that half of Thailand's income comes from single male tourists ? If you do, lay it on the table. If you don't, get down to some serious reading and research.

Racism in the word "farang?" Here, try and grasp this. I will say it very slowly for you to comprehend. Farang is oriental lingo for foreigner. Other Asian languages have similar sounding words. It is not racism. Racism is what you have indulged in here by heaping scorn on all Thais.

You have vowed never to return to this country and haven't for nine years? Is that why you are reading and posting on this forum ?

[HereIAm]

Pisico

Thanks for the details. It does not, however, affect the point I was trying to make, which was that, for whatever reason, all nations have their constraints, circumstances, peculiarities, compulsions, politics, whatever, and it would be erroneous to apply the standards of one country to another.

[Deeral]

Hereiam- yes and there you are with the typical attitude of - Hereiam im blameless how can you judge me. Possibly the reason why Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos are rising so quickly. Just be glad men DO come here otherwise half your national income would disappear. You talk about the west as though its the same as Thailand - have a look at a map - get a feel for the scale - then look at population sizes - look at Africa, THEN Look at Russia, America, Europe, Canada, compare it and what have come out of those places to contribute to the world - then stand back and look at Thailand and think about growing rice and selling daughters. I think even you may start to feel humble - then finally think on how those foriegners are treated when they come here. Think of the pure racism in the word "Farang" often twinned with the word "moo" and wonder no more at why people like me resent their experiences here and vow never to return to the country - and havent now for 9 years. Oh and by the way - i noticed you didnt comment on the behaviour of the Police - just doing their job by taking bribes maybe? - your Problem is you cant take the truth.

If you do not take the trouble to carefully read what posters write, I suggest you desist from making childish noises here.

I fail to see what "typical attitude" you are referring to. I did NOT talk of the west as though it were Thailand. It was you and other posters here that were expecting law and order in Thailand to be enforced as if it were the west. Is that so difficult for you to grasp ? It would be, given your predilection to heap scorn on an entire nation.

You say arrogantly "Just be glad men DO come here otherwise half your national income would disappear." Do you really have data to back up this stupid claim and prove that half of Thailand's income comes from single male tourists ? If you do, lay it on the table. If you don't, get down to some serious reading and research.

Racism in the word "farang?" Here, try and grasp this. I will say it very slowly for you to comprehend. Farang is oriental lingo for foreigner. Other Asian languages have similar sounding words. It is not racism. Racism is what you have indulged in here by heaping scorn on all Thais.

You have vowed never to return to this country and haven't for nine years? Is that why you are reading and posting on this forum ?

"Racism in the word "farang?" Here, try and grasp this. I will say it very slowly for you to comprehend. Farang is oriental lingo for foreigner. Other Asian languages have similar sounding words. It is not racism. Racism is what you have indulged in here by heaping scorn on all Thais. "

sadly this only shows that you don't understand racism.THe word only really refers to "Westerners" and this is decided by the APPEARANCE of the person being referred to this is being done on RACIAL grounds - so it would follow that it is a racist term.

You seem to be an apologist for Thailand.THis is usually done by accusing those who point out the country's shortcomings of failing to understand Thai culture or "The Thai way". I find it hard to believe that any Thai would be proud of the corruption nepotism and shear incompetence that pervades all aspects of Thai business and politics.

To the outside world Thailand likes to project an image of a progressive, modern country striving ahead to embrace globalisation yet retain it's own culture and identity. This however to any but the most casual or uninformed observer couldn't be further from the truth.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Deeral

[tw25rw]

I'd say the greater "miracle" here is a country that can't stop one of its international venues from being torched, and then once it was torched, didn't have the infrastructure or functioning government services (fire-police) in place to stop the fire before it totally gutted one whole end of the mall...

The water had been turned off...

Personally, I would have sent the reds in at gunpoint and forced them to put it out.

[Deeral]

I'd say the greater "miracle" here is a country that can't stop one of its international venues from being torched, and then once it was torched, didn't have the infrastructure or functioning government services (fire-police) in place to stop the fire before it totally gutted one whole end of the mall...

The water had been turned off...

Personally, I would have sent the reds in at gunpoint and forced them to put it out.

Thank you Adolf!

[Deeral]

As anyone would know , when a major building like that goes up water may not be the only requirement for putting out a fire. (Chemicals, plastics etc)

I think what is most disturbing is that the building went up so easily......it begs the question of how SAFE are the other shopping centres around Bangkok.we've already had a disaster in as Disco/nightclub, but whether started deliberately or not, what would be the public's chances if a major store in Bkk were to ignite.

[jfchandler]

Ya, I know...

And while I doubt anyone beforehand specifically would have thought that the Reds were going to torch CentralWorld, considering that they'd been camped out there for months and using the place as their group restroom facility, you gotta wonder...

Wouldn't anyone in government have considered... yes, we're going to turn off the water to try to thirst-out the Reds, but what happens if WE need the water for something... like... firefighting????

The water had been turned off...

[jfchandler]

From what I recall, the building supposedly had fire sprinklers, which didn't function either because of the power being out and/or the water being turned off....

[Deeral]

...and the Army KNEW that Central was a major political target!

mind you I'm sure anyone who'd been in the building before could see it needed serious refurbishment - which seems to have happened very easily now!

Edited September 29, 2010 by Deeral

[truethailand]

Just amazing they've got so much rebuilt/reopen already. In a western country the company would still be trying to get a construction/rebuild permit, tied up in court over claims/insurance, etc.

That might have something to do with who the (ultimate) owners are ...

Sabre you've hit the nail on the head

[truethailand]

please don't talk bad about the red's as they are part of the REAL elected Thai gov. thank you

Are you for real? Or just plain stupid? Wether the red terrorists had been part of an elected government or not, is not the issue. That they rampaged and held hostage parts of the capital for weeks and were the cause of over 90 people killed, is the issue. Your blatantly misinformed comment is unbelievable. And pathetic.

As I said on previous posts who has been charged with terrorism, certainly Interpol have got no warrants. Stop spewing out the establishment propagnda

[whybother]

Just amazing they've got so much rebuilt/reopen already. In a western country the company would still be trying to get a construction/rebuild permit, tied up in court over claims/insurance, etc.

That might have something to do with who the (ultimate) owners are ...

Sabre you've hit the nail on the head

The ultimate owners own the land. They continue to be paid the rent. They don't really care what is built on it or that whoever rents it makes money from it.

[whybother]

please don't talk bad about the red's as they are part of the REAL elected Thai gov. thank you

Are you for real? Or just plain stupid? Wether the red terrorists had been part of an elected government or not, is not the issue. That they rampaged and held hostage parts of the capital for weeks and were the cause of over 90 people killed, is the issue. Your blatantly misinformed comment is unbelievable. And pathetic.

As I said on previous posts who has been charged with terrorism, certainly Interpol have got no warrants. Stop spewing out the establishment propagnda

Interpol don't need warrants for someone charged with terrorism.

Are you suggesting that invading a hospital, bombing a train station, shooting at the army and burning down 30+ buildings isn't rampaging, or that stopping thousands of people from earning their salaries is not holding part of Bangkok hostage? Most of that is fact, not propaganda.