Settlement Visa Issue: Lose Job? Emergency Passport?

[iLOVEcrumpets]

Hello all, I am new here and have searched through this and other forums but have not a seen a poster whose situation mirrors my own. So here goes.

My boyfriend and I came to Thailand, got jobs at the same school, and have decided we've been traveling/teaching ESL for a few years now but we're done. We want to get married and go back to England. He's English and I'm American.

The problem is that on the settlement visa application they ask for employer contact details. Which we wouldn't mind providing EXCEPT that our employer will fire us both if they find out we plan to leave. Suffice it to say the school has not been honest with its foreign staff, we just want to leave without drama.

Who knows how long the application will take. 90  days? 30 days? If we get fired we must leave the country within 7 days. And if we do that it means my passport will be with the UKBA and I'll need to get an emergency passport which means I can only go back to America. And we lose the application fee which is like pissing away $1000 for nothing. And my application will essentially be null because of the emergency passport thing. Awesome.

We might get lucky and maybe they won't contact them. Or we can ask nicely that they don't verify employment but that just doesn't seem smart, they might get suspicious. The risk is too great for this to go wrong we feel!

So, I ask of you out there on this forum: any advice? experience?

Edited September 29, 2010 by iLOVEcrumpets

[jasonr3255]

If I am not mistaken you would be able to spend 6 months in the UK as a US citizen without a visa as a visitor and come straight from Thailand. But for a "settlement Visa" for the UK you would have to apply in The USA not Thailand Me Thinks.

Check out UKborder agency website ! Good Luck

[iLOVEcrumpets]

<br />If I am not mistaken you would be able to spend 6 months in the UK as a US citizen without a visa as a visitor and come straight from Thailand. But for a "settlement Visa" for the UK you would have to apply in The USA not Thailand Me Thinks.<br />Check out UKborder agency website ! Good Luck<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Aha, good catch. For a settlement visa one must apply from their home country OR they can apply from the country where they are normally a resident. In this case if you live in Thailand and have a work permit you can apply.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/docs/1903073/supportingdocssettlement (had a better link, Thailand specific, can't find it)

If I lose my job I lose my work permit and have to leave. And all that other rigmarole referenced in my initial post. But I can apply while here IF I have a work permit. Will post the link/info if I find it should this thread be useful to other expat couples applying from Thailand.

[iLOVEcrumpets]

<br />

<br />If I am not mistaken you would be able to spend 6 months in the UK as a US citizen without a visa as a visitor and come straight from Thailand. But for a &quot;settlement Visa&quot; for the UK you would have to apply in The USA not Thailand Me Thinks.<br />Check out UKborder agency website ! Good Luck<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Aha, good catch. For a settlement visa one must apply from their home country OR they can apply from the country where they are normally a resident. In this case if you live in Thailand and have a work permit you can apply. <br /><br /><a href='http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/resources/en/docs/1903073/supportingdocssettlement' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.ukvisas.g...gdocssettlement</a> (had a better link, Thailand specific, can't find it)<br /><br />If I lose my job I lose my work permit and have to leave. And all that other rigmarole referenced in my initial post. But I can apply while here IF I have a work permit. Will post the link/info if I find it should this thread be useful to other expat couples applying from Thailand. <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

*BUMP*

Does ANYONE here have any helpful info? Did they contact your employers?

[7by7]

Not sure what it is you are asking; but................

You are correct when you say that one can apply for UK settlement either in the country of one's nationality or one's residency; so if you are legally resident in Thailand you can apply there.

As far as I am aware it is unlikely that the Entry Clearance Officer will contact your employer; but what would happen if they did and you were fired I cannot say. Would you be allowed to stay in Thailand while your UK application was processed, or would you have to leave? Perhaps a post on this in the Thai visas etc. forum will get you an answer to this.

If you did have to leave Thailand and so got your passport back from the British embassy then your application would be judged to be withdrawn, but you wouldn't get your fee back.

As it is your intention to leave your employer anyway, perhaps the best course is to be honest with them and see if you can remain in their employ and so legally in Thailand while your UK application is being processed.

Alternatively, you could return to the States and apply there.

[iLOVEcrumpets]

Thank you 7by7 for replying!  Not to clear, agreed, but it's all new to me so I'm not sure what to ask. So here goes anyways:  

If you've applied for a UK settlement visa,  

1. Did they contact your employer?

2. Were you or do you know any foreign couples who did this in Thailand? Care to share your experiences? Advice?

3. Can we just show VFS our work permit, send a copy and not send the original? Our employer would brick if we sent the original, ask why (they keep it at work), and fire us.   Going back to America to apply is not an option. The reasons why are personal and  I won't get into but there is also the issue of a tight budget.

4. Is a letter of employment necessary? We won't likely be able to get one...

Edited October 10, 2010 by iLOVEcrumpets

[7by7]

1) My wife wasn't working when she applied, so no. As I said before, I think it is unlikely that they will do so, but as they ask for this information there is always a chance that they might.

2) Can't answer this, I'm afraid, as my wife is Thai. You may find a couple on here who are both non Thai and who have obtained a UK settlement visa in Thailand, but I think it unlikely.

3) The supporting document checklist asks for " Current valid passport (showing current Thai immigration status).................." I don't know much about Thai immigration and visas, but is your work permit not inside your passport? As you are not a Thai national you will have to supply evidence that you are legally resident in Thailand in order to apply there. I doubt very much that copies would be acceptable.

4) As your intention is to settle in the UK, an employer's letter or other proof of any employment in Thailand is not necessary; you wont be returning to that job. However, employment details are asked for on the application form, and of course that should be completed truthfully and accurately.

[iLOVEcrumpets]

<br />1) My wife wasn't working when she applied, so no. As I said before, I think it is unlikely that they will do so, but as they ask for this information there is always a chance that they might.<br /><br />2) Can't answer this, I'm afraid, as my wife is Thai. You may find a couple on here who are both non Thai and who have obtained a UK settlement visa in Thailand, but I think it unlikely.<br /><br />3) <a href='http://www.vfs-uk-th.com/images/SpouseAndCivilPartner.pdf' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>The supporting document checklist</a> asks for " Current valid passport <i>(showing current Thai immigration status)</i>.................." I don't know much about Thai immigration and visas, but is your work permit not inside your passport? As you are not a Thai national you will have to supply evidence that you are legally resident in Thailand in order to apply there. I doubt very much that copies would be acceptable.<br /><br />4) As your intention is to settle in the UK, an employer's letter or other proof of any employment in Thailand is not necessary; you wont be returning to that job. However, employment details are asked for on the application form, and of course that should be completed truthfully and accurately.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ahah,

1)Dang...not sure how to explain that one if the boss asks but oh well...any ideas? Sick relative? (Yes, we really need the job until we leave and can't risk this!)

2)Agreed, still trying though! I have yet to find a forum with foreign couples getting married/applying from outside both of their countries, let from in Thailand.

3)No. The work permit is a blue book separate from our passports. Can show it to the VFS people and copy it to send, BUT our employer would notice as they keep our work permits if we send them off for however long. Not good.

4)I agree with that, sounds about right. But...risky?

I can't say too much about our actual work situation because I know my boss and coworkers read this site. At work! It's that slow that they can spends heaps of time on the net. Also, as our situation is rare it might be easy for them to guess who we are if we give too much info about our work scenario. Paranoid? Yep. It's that important to us that we get the YES that we aren't risking anything.

[7by7]

One thought that has occurred to me.

The ECO needs to see the sponsor's passport, but obviously it is impossible for the sponsor to send this to the embassy for what could be a lengthy period, so a certified copy is acceptable. The copy can even be self-certified.

It may be acceptable for you to do this with the blue book of which you speak. The staff at the VAC should be able to advise you whether this is acceptable or not, and if they say it isn't then you have two options:

1) Withdraw the application before paying the fee.

2) Insist that the VAC sends it to the embassy anyway and hope that the ECO will accept the copy.

Not sure what you mean by

4)I agree with that, sounds about right. But...risky?

There is no risk involved in not providing an employers letter as one is not required. If you mean that there is a risk that the ECO will contact your employer, then I'm afraid that is a risk you are going to have to take if you want to apply in Thailand.

[Guest jonzboy]

just a couple of observations and please forgive me if I am being abrupt, but I'm not sure the OP has thought through all the essentials

about the work credentials, firstly the ECO will need to be satisfied the applicant is qualified to apply in Thailand and not USA so proof of bona fide residence in Thailand is essential and normally original documents are required as proof (this is to preempt applicants from other countries where processing times are longer), second it will be necessary to prove that the applicant and/or sponsor have sufficient qualifications and work experience to show that they are able to find work in the UK

if the OP and partner are unable to fund their existence in Thailand or anywhere else if their current jobs are lost, it seems unlikely they'll have sufficient funding to satisfy the accommodation and maintenance requirements of UKBA

some thoughts...

[steve187]

three points come to mind,

1 you have to convince the ECO that you are entitled to apply here,

2 you have to show to the ECO that you have somewhere to stay in the UK

3 You have to show that you and your husband, can support you without recourse to public funds.

On a side note how long have you been living together as man and wife? this could make a difference to the type of visa issued

[iLOVEcrumpets]

Wow, where to begin?

I spend so much of my free time scouring the internet for info on this, trust me I'm thinking this through. I would give more info so you would understand but then it'd be easy to tell who we are. But some basics: we have some savings, degrees, and backgrounds that are in demand. I assure you getting work will be no concern. But here in Thailand? Sure it's cheap to live here but we took a hit in salary to be here. Suffice it to say the original plan isn't working out and we're not happy here. We might not be older and retired with loads of savings but we're young and have several years left in our careers.

Our application will not be a straightforward one. I've lived abroad in a few different countries and if what I hear about checks is correct (should the ECO care to do them), it could take a while. I expect maybe 3 months. Losing my job, would screw everything up. I'd have to withdraw the app, lose the fee, and start over. No thank you.

Do you have any idea what it's like in the US right now? Getting a job where I'm from would be tough and the expense of going back would be costly. Also there's the time thing. We just want to apply here, get it done, and get the eff out here. Additionally, one of us has a medical problem. Do you have any idea what a headache the healthcare situation is there? We'd be broke.

I am qualified to apply here. I know this. However, if I lose my job I have to leave and start over. Doesn't make much sense do it? Just keep our mouths shut, get the visa, and get out of here.

Husband and wife? Haha. Not yet, soon. We haven't lived together long enough for long enough to get in that way.

And as someone mentioned, we have a place to live in the UK. No worries.

Our worry is our employer knowing either by 1) contact from ECO or 2) absence of my work permit due to its leaving the country.

When you stop to think that by Thai law my work permit must be on the premises of our work while we are working, we'd be breaking the law to send it out. Surely someone else has had to deal with this?

Edited October 10, 2010 by iLOVEcrumpets

[7by7]

When you stop to think that by Thai law my work permit must be on the premises of our work while we are working, we'd be breaking the law to send it out. Surely someone else has had to deal with this?

As already said, most (all?) members of this board who have experience of applying to foreign embassies for visas either have Thai spouses/partners or are Thais themselves, so it is unlikely that you will get an answer to this here; sorry.

However, from what you have said you do not fully trust your employer. Are you sure that the work permit has to remain with them? Maybe a question on this point in the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum will provide you with some helpful information.

[iLOVEcrumpets]

<br />

<br />When you stop to think that by Thai law my work permit must be on the premises of our work while we are working, we'd be breaking the law to send it out. Surely someone else has had to deal with this?

<br />As already said, most (all?) members of this board who have experience of applying to foreign embassies for visas either have Thai spouses/partners or are Thais themselves, so it is unlikely that you will get an answer to this here; sorry.<br /><br />However, from what you have said you do not fully trust your employer. Are you sure that the work permit has to remain with them? Maybe a question on this point in the <a href='http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/1-thai-visas-residency-and-work-permits/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Thai visas, residency and work permits</a> forum will provide you with some helpful information.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Good point. And no we DO NOT trust our employer. If I were to get into it here in anyway (aside from being massively unprofessional) it would more than obvious who we are.

The work permit thing, eh, haven't found a clear answer yet. I know that by law if the work place gets inspected every foreign worker must produce one at that moment. Surely it's easier for HR to have them? I can't imagine they'd hunt down each individual foreign worker. Not that this happens a lot but who knows?

Are there no farang/farang couples who post here? I know it's mostly guys with thai birds but we do see farang/farang couples. None of which have our situation from what we know. We've tried so many other forums but still...

[7by7]

Yes, there are farang/farang couples living in Thailand, and some of them may even be members of TV. But how many of them will be active in a visa and migration forum? How many will have applied in Thailand for a settlement visa, or any visa, to their partners country? Not many, I suspect.

I am still surprised that there is nothing in your passport to indicate your immigration status in Thailand. As I understand it, just as Thais must carry their ID card at all times, so foreigners must carry their passports and any police officer can stop a any foreigner and ask to see their passport to check their immigration status. What would you do if this happened to you?

[bangkockney]

Yes, there are farang/farang couples living in Thailand, and some of them may even be members of TV. But how many of them will be active in a visa and migration forum? How many will have applied in Thailand for a settlement visa, or any visa, to their partners country? Not many, I suspect.

I am still surprised that there is nothing in your passport to indicate your immigration status in Thailand. As I understand it, just as Thais must carry their ID card at all times, so foreigners must carry their passports and any police officer can stop a any foreigner and ask to see their passport to check their immigration status. What would you do if this happened to you?

Work permits are indeed in a little blue book and separate from passports.

She would have a Non-Imm B visa in her passport, I hope, rather than extensions of stay based on work.

To the OP:

from my own experience, and the set-up you've kind of described, does your employer handle your visa renewals as well as work permit renewals?

If not, you could tell your employer that you will be extending your visa and will update the blue book at the Labour Department yourself - surely you can get the blue book in this way?

Edited October 11, 2010 by bangkockney

[7by7]

Work permits are indeed in a little blue book and separate from passports.

She would have a Non-Imm B visa in her passport, I hope, rather than extensions of stay based on work.

Thanks for the clarification.

All she has to show to the ECO in this regard is that she is legally resident in Thailand and so entitled to apply there. Surely the Non-Imm B visa in her passport shows this as much as the blue book does? If so, then I am sure that this would meet the requirements and so she would not need the blue book.

[iLOVEcrumpets]

We both carry copies of our passports at all times. It works, never had a problem. It would majorly stink if we lost our passport and then had to get replacement everything.

We did get Non-Imm B visas. Then we got extensions of stay. I might be confused but isn't an extension of stay stamp basically an extension of whatever visa you have, in our case non-imm B? At any rate there's a stamp that says we're good for one year and it appears we got that when we FINALLY got our work permits. Who knows what to believe from the garbage they tell us. /end rant

Our employer DOES handle our visa renewals as well as the work permit stuff.

The work permits are 1) proof of employment and 2) proof of eligibility to apply from Thailand. So there are 2 reasons why they are important. We certainly won't be getting any letter from them verifying employment for the purpose of this application! Our pay stubs have no info whatsoever on them, we don't have tax cards (or tax numbers or whatever, no taxes paid yet!!! ), and the contracts are a joke for reasons I can't put here. Though they look legit, if any ECO tries to verify certain parts...... not good. Can't explain more but trust me. Some shady mofos here!

Edited October 15, 2010 by iLOVEcrumpets

[VisasPlus]

I think you need to consider basics first. Do you qualify for a settlement visa ? The fact that you are working in Thailand is irrelevant, as long as you can show that you can apply for the visa here because you are resident here. You can do that by showing your passport, or passport copy. A copy of your work permit would help, if you can get one, but not, in my opinion, necessary.

You say that your relationship is boyfriend/girfriend, and that you might marry. You will need to prove your relationship to qualify for the visa. Can you do that ? More importantly, your boyfriend will have to show that he can maintain and accommodate you in the UK when you get there. He has been away from the UK for some time now, so can he do that ?

Assuming you might qualify for a settlement visa, my advice would be to enclose a letter of explanation with the application that fully explains your work situation here. Chances are that the ECO has come across similar situations before. If not, then bear in mind that, despite the bad press ECOs get on here, they are not totally devoid of understanding and common sense. If you give them facts, then they can check them if they want. if you ask them to do so discreetly, then they will try to do so. Should the visa be refused then you will have a right of appeal against the decision. An independent adjudicator in the UK will look at the facts with a fair degree of common sense too.

If you are in the Pattaya area, then please feel free to call in to our office for a chat.

[7by7]

Indeed, a chat with Visa Plus (or another qualified agent) may be an idea to sort out exactly what documents are necessary for someone in your situation. As said before, it's not something many, if any, members here will have come across before.

At the end of the day if you want to move to the UK to live with your fiance you are going to have to make that application. If your employer finds out, they find out; but if you don't apply in Thailand then you either have to return to the US and apply there or you don't apply at all!