British Embassy Warns Of Detention For Overstayers Exceeding 42 Days

[rubl]

"Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with

permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding

two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both."

This is not a new law or regulation; it has been in effect as part of the Immigration Act 1979 and is merely an enforcement of existing Immigration law.

A few years ago the Immigration Bureau started to enforce the "90 day reporting" law. Any foreigner on a visa needs to report when he stays in the country for more than 90 days. This time the "overstay law" starts to get enforced. Nothing to it, unless you're breaking the law. That's something you shouldn't do in your own country either

[Deeral]

It the same old law. I remember several years ago, a visa run bus from Phuket to Ranong was stopped and anyone with an expired visa in their passport was arrested and shipped to BKK. They were released eventually. And the arresting officers got a good tongue lashing by the brass in BKK.

THese people in the bus were arrested by the POLICE. It seems there had been a disagreement between various parties involved and ex-gratia payments were hinted at.

THis NEW change in implementation is by IMMIGRATION - it was previously assumed if you turned up at your POD you would be fined and put on the plane with no further penalty.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Deeral

[BigBikeBKK]

Bah- TiT, nothing a little money can't fix in the land of smiles corruption :jap:

[Kron]

The law is the law, Why would you think that "just because you got away with it" is OK ?

If you decide to live in adifferent country then you also agree to abide to live by the laws in that country. If you have a 30 / 60 / 90 day stamp, then thats how long you are legally given to live in the country. Who are you to decide that that is a joke and stay beyond that ?

I just don't get your point ? It's ok to break the law if your a or b but not c ?

What kind of world do you live in ?

Whilst I have always complied with the durations set by my visa there have been times when I thought I would go the 'overstay' way.

It got close to this when I could no longer do my visa in Bangkok (easy for I have to go there for the Embassy paperwork) and would have to do it in Ranong. Went to Ranong and was told I'd been given last years advice and should use Surat Thani Immigration. Following year went to Surat Thani and guess what, back to Ranong. Glad the countryside is beautiful for certainly clocked up some mileage.

Every year there seems to be changes to the way the laws are interpreted/administered and every year I seem to get caught out, however much I read the pages of this Board.

I love living in Thailand other than the day I have to deal with my immigration status. Even for the subject of this thread I feel it is not what is stated in the law so much but what will the Immigration Officer do when you present yourself at the airport.

In a Country where corruption exists the laws should be clear, no and/or's.

[TimeBandit2]

If you think is this is a good idea, then you are an idiot.

It's bad for Thailand, it's bad for the immigration police, it's bad for the people being thrown in prison.

It makes Thailand in the only country in the entire world that imprisons people just trying to leave the country. America does not do it, Australia doesn't Britain doesn't, North Korea doesn't, Iran doesn't, nobody does it.

This is going to make Thailand look like even more of a bunch of goons.

That said, it is such a bad idea I still don't believe it, no matter what some bozo at "Pattaya One" says or even the incompetent British Embassy.

Edited October 2, 2010 by TimeBandit2

[somo]

the day 5,000 family members come in here flooding with 'freakouts' about their loved ones detention is the day I'll believe it. Speeding is illegal here too, but how often do ppl get popped for that and furthermore how often does 200bht not take care of it? TiT

If you are happy to "bribe" the Police and allow them of the option to accept that bribe, then you are at fault.

I don't know what country you "used" to live in but I'm sure you would not of considered being proud to feed corruption there as it may have ended up sending you to jail for attempting to bribe an officer of the law ! Don't try to be clever.

What does it matter where he used to live? When in Rome ...etc

Apt username.

[whybother]

If you think is this is a good idea, then you are an idiot.

It's bad for Thailand, it's bad for the immigration police, it's bad for the people being thrown in prison.

It makes Thailand in the only country in the entire world that imprisons people just trying to leave the country. America does not do it, Australia doesn't Britain doesn't, North Korea doesn't, Iran doesn't, nobody does it.

This is going to make Thailand look like even more of a bunch of goons.

That said, it is such a bad idea I still don't believe it, no matter what some bozo at "Pattaya One" says or even the incompetent British Embassy.

Other countries might not put them in jail for overstaying, but I bet they won't let them back in either.

[sprq]

Quote: "The Thai authorities have stated they will always enforce detention of overstays for more than 42 days."

Whilst the English of the British Embassy is mercifully better than that of the Immigration Department, it's still prone to silliness. Apparently, they think that an overstay is a person.

[whybother]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

[Naiplan]

I personally know two people who have overstayed just a little, one for 10 years which was several years ago and one for 39 (yes you read correct) years last year and immigration dealt with it no big deal. In the first case they even took him to the airport in a car to catch his plane - he had paid his 20,000 at the immigration head quarters. Hopefully things will settle downto what they were before.

[phuketrichard]

what happened before does not mean it will happen again.

With all this press i am waiting for the first person to announce they were thrown in Jail while everyone on Thai visa had said it was ok and he would just have to pay a fine.

If you can't get out on time its your fault

[Badbanker]

So far it is all spurious talk!  I spent the week working everyday with immigration airside at the airport, Suan Plu and Chaeng Wattana.   They all laughed at the Thai Visa thread and the Pattaya One and the impending crackdown!   It was business as usual for them.  If you have 20k and a valid passport and a valid entry stamp you go free.  Don't matter if you stayed 5 years?

I was the one who broke the news of a new commissioner on the old thread and it also now seems the 2 old deputies have also been replaced.

There is a lot more tings happening and only time will tell how it will all be implemented.

BB

[pattayabuggy]

If you think is this is a good idea, then you are an idiot.

It's bad for Thailand, it's bad for the immigration police, it's bad for the people being thrown in prison.

It makes Thailand in the only country in the entire world that imprisons people just trying to leave the country. America does not do it, Australia doesn't Britain doesn't, North Korea doesn't, Iran doesn't, nobody does it.

This is going to make Thailand look like even more of a bunch of goons.

That said, it is such a bad idea I still don't believe it, no matter what some bozo at "Pattaya One" says or even the incompetent British Embassy.

Be reasonable, how could they look more like a bunch of goons? I liken them to clowns at Billy Smart's circus.

[Deeral]

I would see this more as a debate about law enforcement than the law itself.

A phrase misquoted from Dickens' Mr Bumble I think was, "If that is the law, then the law is an ass".

This term has become common with those who wish to point out that the law is expected to express the will of the people and protect a nation.

So often in Thailand laws are drawn up without consideration for their ramifications or the possibility of consistency of enforcement.the result a country full of asinine laws that lie dormant until some general or other reactivates them in the hope of reviving his career.

Countries don't have any God-given right to have their laws obeyed or respected. Respect is something you earn by behaviour and example.

To disobey or not to disobey.?????....................True if you disobey a law you may then find yourself involved in that country's penal system. Well that's up to you I guess - if you want to make a point it might be a way of achieving it.

however to criticise the law of a country surely is your inalienable right? In the long run it may even bring about a change in the law or as with the case in hand its arbitrary enforcement.

i can see that soon someone will be invoking "Godwin's law"!

Edited October 2, 2010 by Deeral

[hammered]

Im sure most countires we come from would lock up foreigners found to have no valid visa to stay even if it were one day out of date, or maybe deport them and make it difficult to return.

If the report is true, it is hard to criticise such a move, whihc in reality would still leave Thailand as very liberal on such issues.

[pattayabuggy]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do?  Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

[rafval]

It the same old law. I remember several years ago, a visa run bus from Phuket to Ranong was stopped and anyone with an expired visa in their passport was arrested and shipped to BKK. They were released eventually. And the arresting officers got a good tongue lashing by the brass in BKK.

I believe this is the crux of the matter. The reason the arresting officers got a tongue lashing was because there is a law tp the effect that a person in the process of rectifying the situation, by, for example, being on a bus on the way to get a visa, or being at the airport attempting leave, cannot be arrested, so I think that, unless that law has been changed, and theres been no mention of it, they cannot legally arrest people at the airport attempting to pay their fine and leave

[pattayabuggy]

I would see this more as a debate about law enforcement than the law itself.

A phrase misquoted from Dickens' Mr Bumble I think was,  "If that is the law, then the law is an ass".

This term has become common with those who wish to point out that the law is expected to express the will of the people and protect a nation.

So often in Thailand laws are drawn up without consideration for their ramifications or the possibility of consistency of enforcement.the result a country full of asinine laws that lie dormant until some general or other reactivates them in the hope of reviving his career.

Countries don't have any God-given right to have their laws obeyed or respected. Respect is something you earn by behaviour and example.

To disobey or not to disobey.?????....................True if you disobey a law you may then find yourself involved in that country's penal system. Well that's up to you I guess - if you want to make a point it might be a way of achieving it.

however to criticise the law of a country surely is your inalienable right? In the long run it may even bring about a change in the law or as with the case in hand its arbitrary enforcement.

Very good post, excellent, here we have someone intelligent for a change, thank you

I agree entirely, just because something is written in the law it doesn't mean it's  just or sensible. 

[whybother]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do? Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

If he had said "Some people don't really have a choice" I would have agreed with him.

I sympathise with his problems, but that doesn't change the fact that he chose to overstay "on purpose".

[Deeral]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do? Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

If he had said "Some people don't really have a choice" I would have agreed with him.

I sympathise with his problems, but that doesn't change the fact that he chose to overstay "on purpose".

Whether people choose to "overstay" on purpose is really only a side issue. THe previous penalty of a maximum fine and no further penalty would only encourage some to stay even longer....but now an unpredicted sudden change in policy has destabilised the situation

THe problem arises out of the whimsical nature of the apparent change in policy.This may well leave some people who for good or bad reasons thought it would be safe to overstay in a situation they hadn't bargained for. As the law was already there it's enforcement will be retrospective in effect, which is against the usual concepts of natural justice.

We already know that some departments of immigration (Phuket?) are not aware of this new policy and don't seem to be about to implement it.so foreigners in Thailand are left in limbo, they really don't know how they stand.

It will in all probability prove impossible to get a definitive statement from Immigration as it appears that this "pronouncement" was made by Pattaya Immigration without consultation to others in the department

In short it's just another cock-up that will only serve to damage Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Deeral

[pattayabuggy]

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do?  Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

If he had said "Some people don't really have a choice" I would have agreed with him.

I sympathise with his problems, but that doesn't change the fact that he chose to overstay "on purpose".

How much is an air ticket, 35,000B average? Add another 20,000B for overstay, 55,000B, plus travel to BKK, plus airport fees, etc, etc, let's say minimum 60,000B. So where will you get that if you are broke? The only way might be to commit a crime, hoping you don't get caught so you can clear the visa problem......mmm, better overstay I think, in the hope luck turns in your favour. That's exactly what people do. Most people don't want to break the law, it's just circumstance.

Many do go the crime route, scam and cheat other people, and this case is typical, the guy finds himself a victim of crime, and then has to break the law himself by overstaying.

I admit there will always be an element that indeed just disergard the requirements, can't be bothered, too lazy, time could be better spent propping a bar up.  I don't have any sympathy for those people either, but there really are genuine hardship cases, don't forget that.

[whybother]

Whether people choose to "overstay" on purpose is really only a side issue. THe previous penalty of a maximum fine and no further penalty would only encourage some to stay even longer....but now an unpredicted sudden change in policy has destabilised the situation

THe problem arises out of the whimsical nature of the apparent change in policy.This may well leave some people who for good or bad reasons thought it would be safe to overstay in a situation they hadn't bargained for. Has the law was already there it's enforcement will be retrospective in effect, which is against the usual concepts of natural justice.

We already know that some departments of immigration (Phuket?) are not aware of this new policy and don't seem to be about to implement it.so foreigners in Thailand are left in limbo, they really don't know how they stand.

It will in all probability prove impossible to get a definitive statement from Immigration as it appears that this "pronouncement" was made by Pattaya Immigration without consultation to others in the department

In short it's just another cock-up that will only serve to damage Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination.

Generally agreed.

Whether it's intentional or accidental doesn't make any difference. They may, or may not, put you in jail.

I don't really think this particular cock-up would have an affect on tourism. This is an issue for expats who are here long term, not tourists who usually aren't even here for 42 days.

I definitely agree with your second section. The number of times I have heard of people doing the same thing as a previous time only to told that it's not right and they need to do something else or do it somewhere else is too hard to count.

The problem is that there is no consistency in the enforcement of the laws in Thailand.

[tomyummer]

I think Thailand should establish a 'Fair Immigration Trade Agreement' with western countries.

If you can find a Thai that wants to overstay in your home country, such as the UK or US, and you want to overstay in Thailand, then as long as both of you overstay at the same time, it's okay. If your counter part doesn't want to leave your country, then you can't leave Thailand. You're both responsible for the actions of your counterparts.

Make a contract, exchange contact info, register at both immigration departments.

The new Fair Immigration Trade Agreement.

[PhilHarries]

It's amazing all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this issue.

And there was I thinking all ThaiVisa board members were holier than thou types, married to "good" women, never go to beer bars and observe all the rules.

Seems I may have been wrong all this time.

As for damaging Thailand's reputation abroad, do me a favour and get real. All they would be doing, if they do in fact go this way (and I would hope that they do), is enforcing existing legislation that has been allowed to slip. There are many in Europe who would look enviously at a country that can make and enforce it's own rules.

Yes, many may say they think jail time for such an offence is overkill. Okay, stamp them PNG and escort them to the plane in cuffs as humiliation.

[mca]

And there was I thinking all ThaiVisa board members were holier than thou types, married to "good" women, never go to beer bars and observe all the rules.

Reading some of the replies maybe a more apt name for the site should be Thai Haven't Got A Visa Forum

[pattayabuggy]

It's amazing all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this issue.

And there was I thinking all ThaiVisa board members were holier than thou types, married to "good" women, never go to beer bars and observe all the rules.

Seems I may have been wrong all this time.

As for damaging Thailand's reputation abroad, do me a favour and get real. All they would be doing, if they do in fact go this way (and I would hope that they do), is enforcing existing legislation that has been allowed to slip. There are many in Europe who would look enviously at a country that can make and enforce it's own rules.

Yes, many may say they think jail time for such an offence is overkill. Okay, stamp them PNG and escort them to the plane in cuffs as humiliation.

"There are many in Europe who would look enviously at a country that can make and enforce it's own rules"............ Is that comment meant as sarcasm? In a country where anything can be bought even judges?

Edited October 2, 2010 by pattayabuggy

[sanchin]

Of course I didn't overstay on pupose, do you think i enjoy selling scrap, I also picked sweetcorn for 150 baht per day and went without food on a regular basis. I'd also like to point out that the only people who really helped me out were Thais.

Do you honestly believe that most people overstay on purpose. For the first time in over 20 years I overstayed my visa, for a period of 15 months.

This was because a holier than though, Gospel preaching Farang ripped me off over a million baht. As a result my company collapsed and I ending up selling scrap to feed my family.

So, you overstayed on purpose, didn't you?

You are an idiot, an unpleasant one at that, this guy was broke after being ripped off, what should he do? Over the years I have known many such cases, it's not intended, just circumstances beyond their control.

I read many people on here who have zero compasion and are at their own countrymens throats, what an unpleasant lot many of you are! We really are on our own here, can't even expect sympathy and help from our own kind and certainly zero from the indigenous lot, only "I'm alright Jack".

Before you think differently, I am fully stamped up, and up to date with everything, but know how difficult life really is. I don't know why I look on here, mostly just to get information, but all I get is angry with a lot of you horrible lot.

[paulchiangmai]

It is not right that people should show no respect for the law. It cost me about 4000 bts to do my visa run,so I think the missed visa runs should be calculated and added to the 20,000 bts fine, say at 5,000 bts a run or maybe 10,000 to make people think twice. We all need to respect the law, without law what do we have.

Er Thailand?

[TAWP]

I paid the 20K as I was 9 months over but they let me stay in the country and accepted my application for a new non immigrant O without me having to leave the country. I'm by no means rich but earn more than 40000B a month so my visa was reissued. They're not all bad!

It all depends on what kind of Visa you where on and if it could reasonable be a cause of misunderstanding on your side and not malice intent.

Someone that comes on visa exempt and stay for 3 years clearly isn't in a confused state about the rules - he just ignores them.

Not when you overstay 9 months?????

Well, I heard of a case where a guy thought his 1 year non-O (multi-entry) allowed him to remain in the country for 1 year...that would put him on exactly 9 months of overstay. Perhaps that is what happened to the gentleman above too. Misunderstandings happen.

[greens]

If you think is this is a good idea, then you are an idiot.

It's bad for Thailand, it's bad for the immigration police, it's bad for the people being thrown in prison.

It makes Thailand in the only country in the entire world that imprisons people just trying to leave the country. America does not do it, Australia doesn't Britain doesn't, North Korea doesn't, Iran doesn't, nobody does it.

This is going to make Thailand look like even more of a bunch of goons.

That said, it is such a bad idea I still don't believe it, no matter what some bozo at "Pattaya One" says or even the incompetent British Embassy.

You're Wrong,Japan does it. !!!!!!