Thai Court Removes Hurdle To Extradition Of Viktor Bout

[TAWP]

Reg 2), I am sure they are not against creating banana-laws too... so in the close future we might be seeing Americans and others being extradited from several middle eastern and north African countries atleast...based on funky evidence, to be placed in the worst prison Iran can offer.

If that happens, please don't complain.

I doubt that, but if that happens there will be a war on between Iran and the US. There is already a kind of proxy war. Things are coming to a head in the next year or two, especially if the Palestine-Israel talks fall apart.

So you are saying Russia is going to be justified in attacking the US soon?

Edited October 5, 2010 by TAWP

[Jingthing]

Reg 2), I am sure they are not against creating banana-laws too... so in the close future we might be seeing Americans and others being extradited from several middle eastern and north African countries atleast...based on funky evidence, to be placed in the worst prison Iran can offer.

If that happens, please don't complain.

I doubt that, but if that happens there will be a war on between Iran and the US. There is already a kind of proxy war. Things are coming to a head in the next year or two, especially if the Palestine-Israel talks fall apart.

So you are saying Russia is going to be justified in attacking the US soon?

No. You are very silly.

[TAWP]

Reg 2), I am sure they are not against creating banana-laws too... so in the close future we might be seeing Americans and others being extradited from several middle eastern and north African countries atleast...based on funky evidence, to be placed in the worst prison Iran can offer.

If that happens, please don't complain.

I doubt that, but if that happens there will be a war on between Iran and the US. There is already a kind of proxy war. Things are coming to a head in the next year or two, especially if the Palestine-Israel talks fall apart.

So you are saying Russia is going to be justified in attacking the US soon?

No. You are very silly.

You did write "if that happens there will be a war on between Iran and the US".

Now that is silly.

[Jingthing]

You did write "if that happens there will be a war on between Iran and the US".

Now that is silly.

Not really if you bothered to think about it. Iran wouldn't do anything of the kind EXCEPT if there was a full blown war with the US, so it is logical to say if they went that postal there would already be a war on. I didn't say it would be a cause of a war, there are already plenty of those much more serious than that. Don't act so dumb. Victor is a big catch and a legitimate target.

[brahmburgers]

Maxman71 is correct. All you people bitchingg would be doing it in German or Japanese if there was no US! Some morons are just so full of hate.

5555555555555555555 The facts indicate otherwise. Don't believe all that Hollywood style BS. It was clear that by the time the US entered WW2 Germany could not win the war. The Battle of Britain and the Russians saw to that.

The US didn't have to go to either WWI or WWII. Because it did, both wars were won by the good guys - and sooner than they would have been if the the US hadn't committed material and lives. Just one example: Stalingrad in WWII. For several bleak months in 1942, that miserable city was essentially lost to the Nazis. Only desperate 11th hour determination by the Soviet forces, aided by equipment and intelligence supplied by US & Britain turned the tide. Of course, there are a plethora of other examples of US forces and equipment bringing an end to those two wars. Britain and USSR were hanging on by less than a shoestring, and it's doubtful either could have held out much longer without US assistance. Nearly as helpful was Hitler's incredible ineptitude as a military strategist, but that's another story.

Edited October 5, 2010 by brahmburgers

[webfact]

US expects Bout's 'speedy extradition' from Thailand

WASHINGTON (AFP) -- US President Barack Obama's administration said Tuesday it looks forward to alleged Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout's "speedy extradition" to the United States from Thailand.

A Thai court earlier dismissed money-laundering and fraud charges against Bout, removing a major obstacle to his extradition to the United States.

"We look forward to having Victor Bout in a prison near us very soon," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters.

"I believe there is a mandatory waiting period...We believe after this mandatory period under Thai law we look forward to a speedy extradition of Victor Bout to the United States," he added.

A Thai appeals court in August ordered the so-called "Merchant of Death" be handed over to Washington on terrorism charges, angering Russia, but the process has been held up by technicalities over the new accusations.

Thailand's Criminal Court, citing insufficient evidence, on Tuesday dismissed proceedings surrounding the new charges against Bout, who is said to have inspired the Hollywood film "Lord of War" starring Nicolas Cage.

But Bout's defense lawyer has said he plans a last-ditch legal challenge against the extradition order issued in August.

Bout, a 43-year-old former Soviet air force pilot, was arrested in 2008 after a sting operation in Bangkok involving undercover US agents posing as rebels from Colombia's FARC rebels, considered a terrorist group by Washington.

He has repeatedly denied suggestions that he was a former KGB agent and maintains that he ran a legitimate air cargo business.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-10-06

[webfact]

MERCHANT OF DEATH

Court ruling may speed up Bout's extradition to US

By The Nation

The extradition of Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout to the United States on terrorism charges was back on track yesterday as the Criminal Court removed the main legal obstacle by rejecting a second prosecution request - that he be charged with money-laundering and fraud.

"The prosecutors supplied insufficient evidence to back up the [charge], so the court rejected the request," the court said in the ruling.

The prosecutors have 30 days to appeal the case to the Appeal Court, it said. If they do not, "the defendant will be freed [from this charge] within 72 hours".

The state prosecutor said after the court's ruling that it would not appeal the second case, paving the way for an early extradition.

"As the court rejected the second request, we have to extradite him in accordance to the first request, which the Appeal Court ruled on in August," said the director of the Office of the Attorney-General's Foreign Cases Division, Sirisak Tiyapun.

Bout, a Russian former air force officer, was arrested in a US-led operation in Bangkok in March 2008 to detain him on the charge of terrorism involving the alleged attempt to supply arms to a Colombian terrorist group.

The Appeal Court ruled on August 20 to send him to the United States within 90 days as requested by Washington, but the extradition was delayed as the US had filed the charges of money-laundering and fraud.

The tactic was aimed at securing Bout's extradition but in fact delayed the process, since extradition based on the first case was not approved before the second case was reviewed.

Unless prosecutors appeal the second case, the process of the first extradition will continue - meaning Thai authorities have 45 days to hand over Bout to the United States.

However, his lawyer Lak Nittiwat-tanawichan said he intended to appeal the court's ruling to stall the proceedings on the grounds the second case was motivated by politics and was a redundancy of the first.

Bout appeared in court yesterday in a prisoner's orange uniform with a bulletproof vest and ankle shackles. He was escorted by commandos to the court.

His wife Alla Bout, who also appeared at the court, said her husband was a scapegoat of the United States to undermine Russian influence.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday he would discuss Bout's case with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on the sidelines of the Asia-Europe Meeting in Brussels. "I will reaffirm our clear stance to suggest Russia discuss the case directly with the US. We will do our part in accordance with legal procedure," he said.

-- The Nation 2010-10-06

[OzMick]

IMHO Anybody willing to supply S-A missiles to a terrorist organization should be hung, drawn and quartered. That is exactly what Mr Bout thought he was doing.

So you want to kill off everyone that was in US congress anytime from 1979 to 1988?

(Hint: Afghanistan, FIM-92 Stinger anti-aircraft missile)

Not sure that the anti-soviet occupation mob were classified as terrorists at the time of the sale. Do I personally want to kill US politicians? No, but I certainly would have few objections if it was done as due process of the law, and have very little regard for politicians of any stripe in any country. Everyone? Was it a 100% "Aye" vote?

[OzMick]

yes but here is no proof of any crimes in the USA

Apparently there is proof that he broke US laws. They don't necessarily need to be broken while he is in the US.

So Iran can request any Americans to be extradited to them for any crime they commit...in a third country?

First Iran would have to remove the death penalty. As you can be stoned to death for a consensual shag........................

[uncletom]

Thailand are in a no win situation here. If they extradite him to the US, they piss off the Russians. If they don't they piss of the US. Tuf call!

Cheers, Rick

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. Catch 22 for Thailand. So in the interests of Thailand having minor soured relations being short lived between both countries, the US & Russia, Mr. Bout needs to get a dish of soured food so HOT that he won’t recover from, or maybe he is allergic to peanuts.

Quite unfortunate but then no one wins all around, except Thailand in an odd way of course by barely scraping out of a possible economic blunder or massive headache the US or Russia could have given for the tat for the tit.

uncletom

[maxman71]

Maxman71 is correct. All you people bitchingg would be doing it in German or Japanese if there was no US! Some morons are just so full of hate.

5555555555555555555  The facts indicate otherwise.  Don't believe all that Hollywood style BS. It was clear that by the time the US entered WW2 Germany could not win the war. The Battle of Britain and the Russians saw to that.

The US didn't have to go to either WWI or WWII. Because it did, both wars were won by the good guys - and sooner than they would have been if the the US hadn't committed material and lives. Just one example: Stalingrad in WWII. For several bleak months in 1942, that miserable city was essentially lost to the Nazis. Only desperate 11th hour determination by the Soviet forces, aided by equipment and intelligence supplied by US & Britain turned the tide. Of course, there are a plethora of other examples of US forces and equipment bringing an end to those two wars. Britain and USSR were hanging on by less than a shoestring, and it's doubtful either could have held out much longer without US assistance. Nearly as helpful was Hitler's incredible ineptitude as a military strategist, but that's another story.

Personally, re-hashing US exploits during WWII is just a bit of "old news" and I can appreciate EuroLanders, etc. being fed up with hearing about it over and over again. So let's discuss developments much more recent, such as the growing military might of China and their recent muscle flexing in the Pacific region. I don't know what Fairy Tales you US bashers are reading, but the stuff I read both in the mainstream press, books and blogs indicate a whole host of SE Asian nations (including Vietnam) and East Asian nations are looking towards the US to stand firm towards the Chinese (not necessarily "against") and provide an effective counterweight to what can easily be described as a surging China. More at home for EuroLanders is dealing with the Russian Federation. Russia has little respect for the Centralized EU decision/foreign policy making organs in the EU; Russia is cutting it's deals directly with individual EU member states (most notably Germany) and bypassing the EU Central decision makers altogther; Russia views the Central EU leadership as spineless and unable to deal effectively and strongly with a potential adversary. Source: "Putin and the Rise of Russia" 228 pages, annotated, non-fiction, written by Michael Stuermer, a prominent German diplomat. So you EuroLanders who consider yourselves flawless in bashing the US, perhaps the US should withdraw all our troops from EuroLand and you can drum up the men/women, military hardare, strategy etc. to deal with those warm and fuzzy Russkies. Quite frankly, I don't think you have the conviction or the gonads to do it.

[random]

I am sure he knows many things about the americans also so i am surprised they want him in a court room there where he will be free to talk about what he knows etc, the chances are that this will never get into court

[Jingthing]

I am sure he knows many things about the americans also so i am surprised they want him in a court room there where he will be free to talk about what he knows etc, the chances are that this will never get into court

Most likely he will make a plea deal and never go to trial in exchange for spilling the kinds of beans the USA wants spilled, to them, in private.

Next ...

Edited October 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[TAWP]

yes but here is no proof of any crimes in the USA

Apparently there is proof that he broke US laws. They don't necessarily need to be broken while he is in the US.

So Iran can request any Americans to be extradited to them for any crime they commit...in a third country?

First Iran would have to remove the death penalty. As you can be stoned to death for a consensual shag........................

The US has the death penalty too...

[Jingthing]

The US has the death penalty too...

The USA state doesn't murder homosexuals. The USA doesn't murder political prisoners. The USA does not order legal mass public stonings. Also the rate of capital punishment in Iran is much greater than the USA. In the USA the death penalty is reserved ONLY for truly heinous crimes that everyone would agree are true heinous crimes, such as mass murders. I am opposed to any capital punishment but it downright disgusting to suggest that the USA and Iran are morally equivalent on this matter. It is funny really to see so many people BLINDED by their hatred of the USA that they can't accept reality, that there are MUCH WORSE powerful states in the world.

Next ...

Edited October 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[Sydebolle]

If I get this right, then:

- Mr Bout did nothing illegal in or against the Kingdom of Thailand

- Mr Bout is seeked by US authorities

- the Russian Federation would like to have one of its Nationals back

If above is true, then I just wonder, why the competent Thai authorities are not returning Mr Bout to the Russian Federation because then it becomes an issue between the US authorities and their Russian counterparts. Thailand would be getting rid of an unnecessary problem which does have nothing to do with Thailand in the first place.

Or am I missing something here?

[Jingthing]

If I get this right, then:

- Mr Bout did nothing illegal in or against the Kingdom of Thailand

- Mr Bout is seeked by US authorities

- the Russian Federation would like to have one of its Nationals back

If above is true, then I just wonder, why the competent Thai authorities are not returning Mr Bout to the Russian Federation because then it becomes an issue between the US authorities and their Russian counterparts. Thailand would be getting rid of an unnecessary problem which does have nothing to do with Thailand in the first place.

Or am I missing something here?

It's called extradition, mate. Common as beans. Duh. Next ... Edited October 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[Bagwan]

If I get this right, then:

- Mr Bout did nothing illegal in or against the Kingdom of Thailand

- Mr Bout is seeked by US authorities

- the Russian Federation would like to have one of its Nationals back

If above is true, then I just wonder, why the competent Thai authorities are not returning Mr Bout to the Russian Federation because then it becomes an issue between the US authorities and their Russian counterparts. Thailand would be getting rid of an unnecessary problem which does have nothing to do with Thailand in the first place.

Or am I missing something here?

Ask yourself who detained this alleged arms dealer.  Ask yourself why they did it..  The issue for Thailand is which camp they want to belong to. To accommodate the Russians would be same same as changing horses in midstream, wouldn't it? Why should Thailand worry about Russia when China is on the doorstep? 

Presumably the US has issued a valid International Warrant. Presumably Thailand and the US have a reciprocal extradition treaty. The T's have been crossed and the I's dotted, everything is in order according to the rules. What is the problem? Let this alleged monster have his day in court. Who knows? O J Simpson got away with it. Why not this guy?

[TAWP]

If I get this right, then:

- Mr Bout did nothing illegal in or against the Kingdom of Thailand

- Mr Bout is seeked by US authorities

- the Russian Federation would like to have one of its Nationals back

If above is true, then I just wonder, why the competent Thai authorities are not returning Mr Bout to the Russian Federation because then it becomes an issue between the US authorities and their Russian counterparts. Thailand would be getting rid of an unnecessary problem which does have nothing to do with Thailand in the first place.

Or am I missing something here?

It's called extradition, mate. Common as beans. Duh. Next ...

Of an imaginary crime that did NOT take place in the US.

The first basis of an extradition is usually that the person has committed a crime in the country seeking the extradition.

It is to prevent Mickey Mouse-requests. As we now are seeing.

But atleast we now know that Jingthing support extradition of Americans for crimes not committed in the country asking for extradition, as long as he declares the country that as requesting it to be 'not savages'. Hopefully that includes the Netherlands then...

Oh, and the US has executed retarded people. That might be over some peoples limits atleast...

Edited October 6, 2010 by TAWP

[IAMSOBAD]

Where are you from Tawp?

Lets level this playing field.

[SergeiY]

The US has the death penalty too...

The USA state doesn't murder homosexuals. The USA doesn't murder political prisoners. The USA does not order legal mass public stonings. Also the rate of capital punishment in Iran is much greater than the USA. In the USA the death penalty is reserved ONLY for truly heinous crimes that everyone would agree are true heinous crimes, such as mass murders. I am opposed to any capital punishment but it downright disgusting to suggest that the USA and Iran are morally equivalent on this matter. It is funny really to see so many people BLINDED by their hatred of the USA that they can't accept reality, that there are MUCH WORSE powerful states in the world.

Next ...

How many local people died in Iraq and Afghanistan without a proper legal trail before they got the 'death penalty' by US military forces?

[SergeiY]

how Thailand can send him into a country that officially torture people?

Good point!