Self-Esteem

[ChAoS87]

hey guys, how you express 'self-esteem' , 'dignity' in thai as in when someone commented that you look fat in photos, and it hurt you alot deep down your heart. Thanks alot guys

[mikenyork]

Assuming that your post is serious, it's probably more important for you to understand that laughter has a completely different meaning and role in Thai conversation than it does in the West. Open laughter about someones weight would be generally considered very bad manners and even hurtful in a lot of situations in the West. In Thai culture, however, laughter is used to try to help the person being laughed at feel more comfortable. Yeah, I know it seems weird to us. And I wish you luck in changing your gut reaction to being laughed at. I've struggled with it with less than total success, to put it mildly, all the years I've associated with Thais. But it is the way it is and you have to take into account what they think they're communicating, not what you're feeling. An analogous situation might be a young Thai man on a work-study tour in the Us who is taken into the storeroom of the factory where he is training/working and shown what to do by a supervisor who has his hands full of clipboards and whatever and uses his feet to point at what he's talking about. The Thai would feel angry and dissed to say the least. The farang might be quite oblivious to these feelings and almost certainly wouldn't have meant to communicate what he did.

I should think that something like "phom reuseuk ay" - I was embarrassed or, to be a little stronger, "phom reuseuk wa phom sia na" I felt that I had lost face will communicate your feelings. If you feel very strongly you can add maak to either phrase. But don't be surprised if you get a blank look in response. Our feelings about people laughing at us don't make any sense to Thais who are accustomed to it from the time they can remember.

If it's any comfort to you, I am about 18 inches too short myself. People whom I barely know or maybe don't know at all don't hesitate to say, plain and simple "oh, you're really FAT!" as though they were commenting on the weather. The fact that it's true doesn't take the sting out. But I do roll with the punches better than I used to. And, of course, in my case, the facts is the facts, after all.

[kikenyoy]

Before I lost a bunch of weight I used to have this problem too. If they weren't too rude then I would do my best to ignore them even though it bothered me. If t felt like they were over the line then I would either get mad and fight back or try to explain why I didn't like what they said...neither of which did any good. Then I found a different strategy...be complimentary! Since it was almost always women who would make the comments I would compliment them on their very, very dark skin or their really flat noses., which are features that Thai women hate.

Another tip is to use the insults as motivation. It was low on my list of reasons to lose weight but when I heard them I would just say to myself "Good. Go ahead and say it now because you'll only be able to for another 6 months".

[kriswillems]

When Thai people say you're fat they are not judgmental like western people. They just tell the truth in a joking way. Maybe they just want to start a conversation with you. I can laugh with it. I don't feel hurt at all.

I usually answer their reaction say in a smiling way :

ขอบคุณมากนะครับ and a bit later ความมั่นใจ(ในตัวเอง)หายไปเลย

Never got a bad reaction after that. They can laugh with it. They understand you're joking too.

When a western person says you're fat he is usually judgmental. He might think you are too lazy to take good care of yourself, that you've no character, that you're destroying your own health or that he's paying tax-money for the health problems caused by your overweight. I would feel like I am being blamed when somebody of my country would tell me I am fat.

[Chassa]

Agreed, to call someone fat in Thai is definitely no insult. My Thai wife has two daughters the younger is rather 'broad across the beam' she is sometimes referred to by her name but more often as Moo (pig). Not behind her back, to her face and is sometimes yelled out to (as only Thai ladies can!) in a crowd. My step-daughter seems to regard this as a term of endearment.

Culture - Culture - Culture - Not same

Edited October 10, 2010 by Chassa

[SoftWater]

I agree with the above posters and would just add that in my experience commenting on someone's appearance as an opening gambit in a conversation appears to the Thai equivalent of the British propensity to talk about the weather.

Being very skinny, almost every Thai I speak too that I haven't seen for more than a week or so will say, 'you look thinner than before', 'you should eat more'. It is so tiresome that I don't even bother replying anymore (I went through a couple of years trying out various 'witty' replies, all to no avail as others have similarly commented above), and just move on to another topic without acknowledging the opening line.

It was only after some time that I noticed that Thais do this with each other all the time. In the past, I'd occassionally chastise my wife for what I thought was an insensitive comment to another family member, only to have my concerns laughed off. It took a while to realise what the posters above have been saying.\

As for the OP's language question, how to say 'That hurt my feelings' or 'I feel upset by your comment', I'd be interested to know how a native speaker might say this. I now how to translate it directly from English into Thai, but I don't think that's what a Thai would say. There must be a Thai idiom or expression here. Anyone?

Edited October 10, 2010 by SoftWater

[Hardie]

Emotionally hurt? I'd say 'jep jai' เจ็บใจ if incidental, maybe 'noi jai' น้อยใจ if more lasting. 'Self-esteem' is another thing. BTW Thais may be less judgmental in their insults, but not necessarily less hurtful. I think in all cultures there's a difference in laughing WITH or laughing AT.

[mikenyork]

I would agree that "heart intent" is very important in determining whether a remark made was innocent or intended to wound. But Thais just don't have the same idea of what laughing at someone else means. Particularly when someone makes a mistake (say, in speaking English in a class), the other students will laugh uproariously. And usually the person being laughed at joins in. It's been a mystery to me, more or less, all my adult life. I get it, in part. How it's supposed to make the person who made the mistake more comfortable because no one is taking whatever happened seriously. So I've been told (many, many, many, many times). But as for me, I am still pretty embarrassed by this phenomenon when it is turned on me. Even at my ripe advanced age when, as a general matter, I care less and less what the world thinks of me. And it's always been hard for me to believe that Thais don't feel some pain, way deep down, even if they don't show it.

[Hardie]

I would agree that "heart intent" is very important in determining whether a remark made was innocent or intended to wound. But Thais just don't have the same idea of what laughing at someone else means. Particularly when someone makes a mistake (say, in speaking English in a class), the other students will laugh uproariously. And usually the person being laughed at joins in. It's been a mystery to me, more or less, all my adult life. I get it, in part. How it's supposed to make the person who made the mistake more comfortable because no one is taking whatever happened seriously. So I've been told (many, many, many, many times). But as for me, I am still pretty embarrassed by this phenomenon when it is turned on me. Even at my ripe advanced age when, as a general matter, I care less and less what the world thinks of me. And it's always been hard for me to believe that Thais don't feel some pain, way deep down, even if they don't show it.

I can appreciate the fact that you've struggled with this and we all want to avoid the conclusion that Thais are intentionally insensitive, BUT... the explanations seem too convoluted... and we all know that spoken truth is, uh... relative.... and frankly, it just doesn't all add up to the facts. I've seen my wife cry too many times, and seen too many Thais putting their 'lessers' down in order to puff themselves up. Instead of an alternative theory of laughing, maybe try this thought experiment: imagine Thailand to be a US high school and Thais to be the 15-18 y.o. students. My, they certainly seem to cluster into little cliques, don't they?! And outsiders certainly do get a raw deal, don't they? In this scenario, Thais aren't emotionally cruel, just emotionally immature, so withhold judgment for a later day. Works for me.

[mikenyork]

I don't want to make too much of my "struggles". It has just been irritating more than anything. And it has often, in fact usually, seemed rude to me. People are people at the end of the day and we do good things sometimes and bad things sometimes. So there can be no question that on some occasions people are laughing maliciously and playing power games and clique games and god knows what all. As to whether there's a real difference in culture, all I can say is that Thais CLAIM (many Thais over many years in many circumstances) that their laughter is not ill-intended. In many cases I believe them, certainly not in all. To quote "The Shadow" (you're almost certainly too young to remember this radio show) "What evil lurks in the hearts of men? The SHADOW KNOWS!!!!)

[LanxangBillybob]

The part about hurting deep in your heart might be expressed as 'แทงหัวใจ'