Thai Tradespeople.

[basjke]

It's quite simple.

Have you ever asked a Thai tradesman the question if he had knowledge of a certain job and got the answer no I don't?

Says it all.

[slapout]

Tradesmen here and those in competition with them, are a lot like noodle shops/restaurants. The first couple that opened knew what they were doing, learned quickly, or went out of business. I look for those businesses/tradesmen who have been in business for 15 years+_ , the owner is early 40's+_, will show past work and/or have been at same location/same business for several years. You normally do not find them in high rent districts, unless they were living/doing business there before it became high rent.

Good repair shops/tradesmen are out there and I have had the pleasure of doing business with many and also crossing the master of none, off my potential list many times. With the current trend toward replacement, instead of repair, this may be the last generation of these people we will find. The old blacksmith, shoe repair, appliance/auto repair shops are fast becoming dieing art, which is a real loose.

[GuestHouse]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

[basjke]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

But as you said in a reply to another post of me,you are not a Thai national and this topic is about Thai tradesmen.

[GuestHouse]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

But as you said in a reply to another post of me,you are not a Thai national and this topic is about Thai tradesmen.

But the answer's to the questions might reveal if the people dishing Thais here actually know what trade skills are. - The post, by the way, is asking opinions of Thai tradesmen.

So ..... erm...... what trade skills do you have?

Edited October 17, 2010 by GuestHouse

[basjke]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

But as you said in a reply to another post of me,you are not a Thai national and this topic is about Thai tradesmen.

But the answer's to the questions might reveal if the people dishing Thais here actually know what trade skills are. - The post, by the way, is asking opinions of Thai tradesmen.

So ..... erm...... what trade skills do you have?

So do you suggest that one needs to be a qualified tradesman to assess the quality of a job done?

[robblok]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

I dont im a simple accountant / tax advisor. But you donn't need trade skills to recognize good or bad jobs. My old man is great with his hands can fix almost everything and it looks great. So i have seen good work.. i have seen bad work (mostly things that i tried myself) and there were times that i did it better as the Thais. Not always but bear in mind i'm not good at all.

But everyone can see if they are tiling crooked, and recently i had a water heater replaced by a competent trade man he had to laugh and cry at the work of his predecessor. I knew it was bad but i figured it was the only way. After i saw the other guy do the same job much easier better and better to look at i knew the other one was crap. So you don't need to hold certificates to be able to judge others.

Im pretty sure if you see me make an accounting report with mistakes in the dates or some things just don't add up you know I am no good. You don't always need to have certificates.. common sense helps a lot too.

[GuestHouse]

So do you suggest that one needs to be a qualified tradesman to assess the quality of a job done?

Absolutely not - But a qualified and experienced tradesman has a huge head start in selecting people to do work for him, understanding what skills are required, the sequence of work, selection and care of materials, and the management of work.

There's a lot of people ranting about Thai Tradesmen, yourself included who are perhaps totally oblivious to their own failings in selecting workers/contractors and managing the job.

The very typical - My wife/My wife's family found a builder/plumber/electrician/mechanic in the village - The price was right but the job went to rat sh1t is too often repeated example of Johnny Know Nothing getting suckered into paying for rice farmers as tradesmen and then blaming all the very good real Thai tradesmen who he wouldn't know as such if he tripped up over one.

[robblok]

So do you suggest that one needs to be a qualified tradesman to assess the quality of a job done?

Absolutely not - But a qualified and experienced tradesman has a huge head start in selecting people to do work for him, understanding what skills are required, the sequence of work, selection and care of materials, and the management of work.

There's a lot of people ranting about Thai Tradesmen, yourself included who are perhaps totally oblivious to their own failings in selecting workers/contractors and managing the job.

The very typical - My wife/My wife's family found a builder/plumber/electrician/mechanic in the village - The price was right but the job went to rat sh1t is too often repeated example of Johnny Know Nothing getting suckered into paying for rice farmers as tradesmen and then blaming all the very good real Thai tradesmen who he wouldn't know as such if he tripped up over one.

Ok then i 100% agree with you, because its the truth. But what your saying is you cant call those other workers tradespeople, but can only call the real tradespeople this.. So what do you call those others then who impersonate tradespeople ?

[GuestHouse]

Ok then i 100% agree with you, because its the truth. But what your saying is you cant call those other workers tradespeople, but can only call the real tradespeople this.. So what do you call those others then who impersonate tradespeople ?

I love reading house build blogs and threads, I even cheat on ThaiVisa to read threads on the subject on dare I mention it.... Other forums.

What I gather from reading a huge number of these threads is that the 'pseudo tradesmen' you refer to can in most cases be described as 'The Luckless Farang's In-Laws' or very close relatives thereof.

[robblok]

Ok then i 100% agree with you, because its the truth. But what your saying is you cant call those other workers tradespeople, but can only call the real tradespeople this.. So what do you call those others then who impersonate tradespeople ?

I love reading house build blogs and threads, I even cheat on ThaiVisa to read threads on the subject on dare I mention it.... Other forums.

What I gather from reading a huge number of these threads is that the 'pseudo tradesmen' you refer to can in most cases be described as 'The Luckless Farang's In-Laws' or very close relatives thereof.

In my case not relatives.. or inlawas. My own wife went crazy with them as they really did a bad job. But I myself had no experience how to handle those kind of guys and she did not either so we paid for sub standard work in the end. Later we tried to find good people but she could not find any and we live quite far from relatives so nobody could reccommend ppl.

[stander]

The detention camp at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was constructed using mainly Thai tradesman, and by all accounts they seem to have done a pretty good job.

[basjke]

The detention camp at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was constructed using mainly Thai tradesman, and by all accounts they seem to have done a pretty good job.

Source??

[stander]

The detention camp at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base was constructed using mainly Thai tradesman, and by all accounts they seem to have done a pretty good job.

Source??

I don’t think the agency which handled the procurement of manpower in Thailand would be too happy if I gave details, but take it from me it’s a fact.

[jackr]

In 1999 I was working on a large power project here in Thailand, which had an almost 100% Thai workforce and the quality and speed of work was excellent.

Our company had a similar one going on in the UK, with a British workfoce, which was running into all sorts of delays and cost over runs, so I was asked to go and see if I could help out.

When I got there I was amazed at the slow pace, poor quality workmanship and just the general "I don't give a shit" attitude of the workforce.

The work hours were something like 07:00 to 16:00 with a one hour lunch break, but it soon became clear to me that we were lucky to get three hours of average to poor quality work.

I rotated between the two projects for ten months and the difference was like day and night.

Sorry, but I think one is skewing things here or doesn't really know the score, but either way, that scenario is not the norm. An empire and one of the world's top economies didn't come about from the culmination of shoddy workmanship. The British work the longest hours in Europe for starters and, also being British, I worked there for a number of years where the work ethic was always to 'dog-on'. If you're talking of council workers on the clock, then that is entirely different and not indicative of the average British trades-person.

This Thai project more than likely had a selected workforce on it - ie, the cream of the crop - as opposed to your everyday tradesmen, who are, lets face it, very much off and on. I have supervised Thai sparkies offshore, and to be fair, they were pretty good compared with your Thai tradesmen on the street, but were no dynamos and made lots of mistakes. Also worked over Thai sparkies and labourers in Brunei and although keen, they were pretty rough. They may have an aptitude for it, but on the whole need constant supervision and like to cut corners.

[Scully]

My two bahts worth.

If a Thai tradesman can do something and do it well they are usually very positive and if they know their trade there will be no umming and arring. To compare a Thai build house with a western build is like comparing a cat with a dog,

Thai builds (where I live) are only one breeze block thick skimmed with cement and foundations are incredibley shallow. I have been an apprentice gas fitter and plumber in the UK and there just is not the need for plumbing training where I live, all waste washing water goes into outside drains and toilet waste goes into storage pits. Gas is just a bottle outside.

Thais can build a house in two weeks where as in the West it would take two months, there is no need for a damp proof certificate a corgi registered plumber or a 10 year guarantee of work etc.

Thai people work very hard and if you want a "perfect" finish you need to state this while the job is being done, not when they have gone.

When you pay 5000baht a day in the uk for a good tiler you expect the best, if you want the best in Thailand you need to make sure they know your standards and expect the bathroom tiles to be laid perfectly costing an extra days work costing a whole 500 baht more max.

If a tradesman in any country is given longer and is paid accordingly to do a better job they will do so.

[GM1955]

So what do you call those others then who impersonate tradespeople ?

English Teachers.

[stander]

Jackr

I work for an American company and frankly I was embarrassed when I saw the British tradesmen’s/worker work ethic and the quality.

There were also numerous incidence of sabotage, bomb hoaxes and towards the end they would do anything to slow the progress.

It may your may not have been the norm, but that experience has certainly left me with a low opinion of the British tradesman/worker.

[electau]

Let's set a base line here:

Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'?

Who here hold's national trade certificates?

Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.

-----

Me first - Yes to all.

But as you said in a reply to another post of me,you are not a Thai national and this topic is about Thai tradesmen.

But the answer's to the questions might reveal if the people dishing Thais here actually know what trade skills are. - The post, by the way, is asking opinions of Thai tradesmen.

So ..... erm...... what trade skills do you have?

So do you suggest that one needs to be a qualified tradesman to assess the quality of a job done?

Yes, if the work entails Electrical, Plumbing and Airconditioning. Work has to comply with legislative standards for safety of persons and property.

A person qualified in a particular trade or ocupation must be competent. You cannot work above your level of competence with out further training. A tradesman can supervise work carried out.

My formal qualifications are those of a licenced electrician and licenced telephone and data cabler installer ( Australia).

Edited October 17, 2010 by electau

[mikecwm]

I have never met people that are so able to turn their hands to almost anything, I've never met many Farangs like that at all.

These so called unskilled people can build a house from foundations up, these are not skilled workers, have had very little training, yet they certainly get by.

I know this thread will turn into yet another Thai slag fest, but if Thai people had the same opportunities as we had, and we had what they had, we'd all be working for them for peanuts.

And they would have threads running on internet forums and they'd all slap each other on their smug backs about how great they are, and how stupid and useless we are.

Farangs are the lucky ones, yet they still can't resist putting the boot in on those less fortunate, having digs at Thai people anonymously, safe in the house or the condo that low paid Thai workers built, but could never dream of owning.

What a sad way to end up.

What a great reply. Well done.

I'm one of those Farang who can and has done most things -including building houses from foundation to roof, and then making the cabinets. All self taught.

I'm sure there are plenty of Thais who can do the same with far less tools than I could afford.

I read so often the comment - "after all TIT", as if Thais should be grateful that Farangs bring the benefit of their wisdom to Thailand.

I seldom read of the benefits that Farangs receive from living in Thailand where centuries of Buddhism has produced a wonderful Live and Let Live attitude.

Did they just come for the warm weather and cheap living?

Less whining and more gratitude would be a wonderful thing on TV.:jap:

[xen]

I have used Thai Tradies in renovation work in our restaurants. -Tiling, carpentry etc and they have been excellent. I do not think i would ever use them for electrical or plumbing tho. The thing i have found tho ,not only with Thai. but Asian (Viet,Cinese etc) is they have a "Can Do" attitude wether it is realisically founded or not. They will tackle jobs where i would contract out to a specialist knowing i haven't the skills to attempt it. We had one Thai guy put in an aircondtioning unit and when i offered my spirit level to him so it could be fixed level, He poo-pooed me me about it but he didn't have a clue how to use it. Always pissed me off how one end was lower than the other.

[timekeeper]

in my opinion, 80% is good enough to a Thai tradesman

[markt7081]

I had to break a small window when I locked myself out.

Went to the hardware store, asked for a good repairer.

He did a super job, 300 bht.

Mate did a big building project as cheaply as possible, disaster.

U get what u pay for

[nocturn]

In 1999 I was working on a large power project here in Thailand, which had an almost 100% Thai workforce and the quality and speed of work was excellent.

Our company had a similar one going on in the UK, with a British workfoce, which was running into all sorts of delays and cost over runs, so I was asked to go and see if I could help out.

When I got there I was amazed at the slow pace, poor quality workmanship and just the general "I don't give a shit" attitude of the workforce.

The work hours were something like 07:00 to 16:00 with a one hour lunch break, but it soon became clear to me that we were lucky to get three hours of average to poor quality work.

I rotated between the two projects for ten months and the difference was like day and night.

Sorry, but I think one is skewing things here or doesn't really know the score, but either way, that scenario is not the norm. An empire and one of the world's top economies didn't come about from the culmination of shoddy workmanship. The British work the longest hours in Europe for starters and, also being British, I worked there for a number of years where the work ethic was always to 'dog-on'. If you're talking of council workers on the clock, then that is entirely different and not indicative of the average British trades-person.

This Thai project more than likely had a selected workforce on it - ie, the cream of the crop - as opposed to your everyday tradesmen, who are, lets face it, very much off and on. I have supervised Thai sparkies offshore, and to be fair, they were pretty good compared with your Thai tradesmen on the street, but were no dynamos and made lots of mistakes. Also worked over Thai sparkies and labourers in Brunei and although keen, they were pretty rough. They may have an aptitude for it, but on the whole need constant supervision and like to cut corners.

talk about blinded by national pride.

What Empire are you talking about? The one that if it cannot actually be called fallen has been in steady decline for as long as i can remember?

The Country that brought us British Leyland and a car industry renowned the world over for unreliability and shoddy workmanship with out even the style provided by the Italians?

Council Estates, the dole?

Being one of the "worlds top economies" by size does not mean it rates in the top 10 for health.

Hail Brittania!

Edited October 18, 2010 by nocturn

[basjke]

I had to break a small window when I locked myself out.

Went to the hardware store, asked for a good repairer.

He did a super job, 300 bht.

Mate did a big building project as cheaply as possible, disaster.

U get what u pay for

If that isn't a good comparison.

Comparing changing a lock wit building a house.

[IanForbes]

Ah yes, the hard working trades people. I think there were 7 of them asleep at 2 in the afternoon.

[GM1955]

Ah yes, the hard working trades people. I think there were 7 of them asleep at 2 in the afternoon.

What time did they start, when was their break, were they waiting for new materials to arrive so they could carry on slaving away under 40c sunshine for 200 Baht per day ?

If so do you expect them to stand to attention waiting for the concrete to arrive ?

6 Farangs from ThaiVisa v 6 Thai guys from a village, your mission is to build a house from start to finish, working in the same conditions and for the same pay, using the same tools and materials and working the same hours, come rain or 43c sunshine.

My money would most certainly be on the Thai guys to absolutely thrash the Farangs in every department.

Edited October 18, 2010 by GM1955

[robblok]

Ah yes, the hard working trades people. I think there were 7 of them asleep at 2 in the afternoon.

What time did they start, when was their break, were they waiting for new materials to arrive so they could carry on slaving away under 40c sunshine for 200 Baht per day ?

If so do you expect them to stand to attention waiting for the concrete to arrive ?

6 Farangs from ThaiVisa v 6 Thai guys from a village, your mission is to build a house from start to finish, working in the same conditions and for the same pay, using the same tools and materials and working the same hours, come rain or 43c sunshine.

My money would most certainly be on the Thai guys to absolutely thrash the Farangs in every department.

I think it depends who you select from Thai visa and if the tools will be up to Thai specification or farang specifications. If you select me then sure the Thais would probably win.

[GM1955]

If you select me then sure the Thais would probably win.

Me too !!

[Naam]

1. What is your opinion of Thai tradespeople?

2. Was the work up to your expectation?

3. Was the price acceptable?

4. If you feel that improvement is needed, in what way could things be improved?

1. mixed, ranging from totally unable to perform to excellent.

2. yes, after mistakes were (several times) rectified.

3. yes

4. lack of training and lack of supervision

construction:

-excellent job from steel roof erectors

-excellent job marble layers

-good job from electrician

-good job (although overkill) from pool builder

-good job carpenters/joiners

-satisfactory job gypsum

-substandard job from masons

-shitty job concrete work

automotive:

-amazing good job from car mechanic