Consistency With Mont Clair In Chiang Mai

[cerbera]

just bought a tub of mont clair, and I have to say it tastes sh+t. Im no wine buff but ive sampled and bought a few 5 litres before. But this stuff is a bit rancid.

Just want to hear whether anyone else has seen, tasted a down turn in quality since they got pretty popular. Not trying to be incendiary. also protocol about returning said item if applicable.

chin chin

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

when wine goes bad it tastes like vinegar. Not unheard of with older wines. It's why at expensive restaurants they let you taste a wine to accept it.

For a box of wine it needs to be kept refrigerated after breaking the seal.

[jko]

I've been drinking it on and off for a few years without a problem Just got one from Rim Ping and it's OK - reference on side of pack is: Lot39 20.10.10. Check yours to see when it was produced - might be old or badly stored stock. Whatever, if it's really off, suggest you take it back to the retailer, and let him/her quaff a few mouthfuls. That should do the trick....

[jaideeguy]

yeah, it's a decent consistant table wine......haven't had a bad box yet after 2 yrs. Sad to say that I now drink box wines.

[onnut]

yeah, it's a decent consistant table wine......haven't had a bad box yet after 2 yrs. Sad to say that I now drink box wines.

nothing wrong with box wines. some very good wines come like that now. they stay fresh for longer and are easy to use plus cost efective.

to the OP I have never had a bad Mont Clair in 3 years.

[anonymouse]

yeah, it's a decent consistant table wine......haven't had a bad box yet after 2 yrs. Sad to say that I now drink box wines.

nothing wrong with box wines. some very good wines come like that now. they stay fresh for longer and are easy to use plus cost efective.

to the OP I have never had a bad Mont Clair in 3 years.

I understand where Jaideeguy is coming from, I'd never drink box wines in my own country because a good bottle of wine costs at most half the price that it does in Thailand.

I make do with Mont Clair wine boxes over here as well as you say cost effective and longer lasting.

Decent beer and wine is something that you have to pay a premium for over here.

[mcgriffith]

Never had the issue.

I'm an early adopter, starting buying the 5 liter box of Mont Clair Celebration red when it first became available several years ago. It's plonk, I will freely admit. But enjoyable as a simple meal accompaniment wine.

I buy from a wholesaler on the NE corner of Huay Kaew Rd. and Irrigation Canal Rd. The business name is Luxsana Huay Kaew. Due to my request, they started putting one or two boxes of both the red and white wine in a small cooler (last 6 months or so). The price is 880 B for the 5 liter box. Cheaper than Tesco or Carrefour; don't know about Makro or Big C, I never go there.

Before anyone gets in a huff about box wine- this technology was invented years ago in Australia. The unused wine doesn't oxidize or spoil, unlike opening a bottle of whatever size. And of course even some premium wines are moving away from cork and going to screw caps, for a different reason.

Look, I expect the haut cuisine connoisseurs to show up shortly on this thread, and trumpet what a heresy this is, absolute swill, yadda yadda. This is to be expected. The people who enjoy high end imported wines here in Thailand....are not only paying triple or quadruple price, but also drinking wine that I consider damaged. Damaged because of the imperfect supply chain and distribution system; the vagaries of air conditioning and proper storage in transporting it from the EU, or Australia or California and other origins.

Give me my fresh plonk any day. Siam Winery imports juice from South Africa (Beede Valley), vints it here and sells way under the usual price point for a wine of this quality. Believe me, I've tasted way worse for several times the price here.

Think of it as a vin ordinaire or a Beaujolais Nouveau- a simple country wine, and you'll be fine with it.

The product they sell at Luxsana- never had a spoilage problem.

Just my 25 satang.:jap:

[cerbera]

you bugger 880 baht.!!

look I loved it before. This box just seems different. it seems very thin. I kept the tag and will call them tomo. so I guess my post was a bit premature. Have you tried the penguin stuff out of chalong supermarket. thats nice. Mr BB waxes lyrical about bin 666 from dangermouse and penfolds. Never really got on with them. I like to walk into the expensive wine area at every duty free and also at tachileilk Do you think I could make a run for it with a few romanee de conte and chateau yqeums etc. as my mum is coming over and i want to show her how well Im doing.

[mcgriffith]

I admit to buying some Penfolds and a few French wines at Tachilek over the years....

[lingnoi1977]

Never had the issue.

I'm an early adopter, starting buying the 5 liter box of Mont Clair Celebration red when it first became available several years ago. It's plonk, I will freely admit. But enjoyable as a simple meal accompaniment wine.

I buy from a wholesaler on the NE corner of Huay Kaew Rd. and Irrigation Canal Rd. The business name is Luxsana Huay Kaew. Due to my request, they started putting one or two boxes of both the red and white wine in a small cooler (last 6 months or so). The price is 880 B for the 5 liter box. Cheaper than Tesco or Carrefour; don't know about Makro or Big C, I never go there.

Before anyone gets in a huff about box wine- this technology was invented years ago in Australia. The unused wine doesn't oxidize or spoil, unlike opening a bottle of whatever size. And of course even some premium wines are moving away from cork and going to screw caps, for a different reason.

Look, I expect the haut cuisine connoisseurs to show up shortly on this thread, and trumpet what a heresy this is, absolute swill, yadda yadda. This is to be expected. The people who enjoy high end imported wines here in Thailand....are not only paying triple or quadruple price, but also drinking wine that I consider damaged. Damaged because of the imperfect supply chain and distribution system; the vagaries of air conditioning and proper storage in transporting it from the EU, or Australia or California and other origins.

Give me my fresh plonk any day. Siam Winery imports juice from South Africa (Beede Valley), vints it here and sells way under the usual price point for a wine of this quality. Believe me, I've tasted way worse for several times the price here.

Think of it as a vin ordinaire or a Beaujolais Nouveau- a simple country wine, and you'll be fine with it.

The product they sell at Luxsana- never had a spoilage problem.

Just my 25 satang.:jap:

Hmmm...where do I start?

At risk of being absorbed under the haut-cuisine label, I'll give it a go.

Nothing wrong with cask wine (invented 1965 in Renmark S.A.). Whatever floats one's boat. Also, quality is subjective. Wine industry folk should never tell consumers what is best to drink and that one wine is better than another. We just educate where possible.

I haven't seen the wine in question but if there is a problem with your bag-in-box Mont Clair wine, chances are it has passed its unopened use by date or been subjected to a sudden and prolonged change in condition. Heat for instance. There are so many preservatives and anti-oxidants in most box wine that it is highly unlikely for spoilage to happen from inside once opened. It is the hermetic seal that prevents one from keeping box or cask wine on the shelf for too long prior to opening.

Check the use by date.

Wine - a subjective taste surrounded by facts.

Any retailer/wholesaler/producer worth their salt will happily exchange the product if deemed faulty. There in lies the challenge. Some retailers and wholeslers in CNX may not know how to distinguish the wine faults.

Good luck.

[OldeBellPedr]

We sell 5 or 6 boxes of Mont Clair a week here at The Olde Bell. About one in 30 or 40 has gone bad. That's why i buy from reputable firms used to dealing with Westerners. They will always exchange the bad ones. The same goes for bottles. Rimping will always change corked wine or boxes that have gone bad. some of the hole in the wall places follow the usual Thai policy of 'once you've bought it, it's yours. No exchange , not refund'!!

For personal consumption, I agree with McGriffith: Penfolds Tachilek specials take some beating! I wonder if Penfolds know they're sanctions busting!!!

[CMX]

Penfolds -

Is Penfolds (sorry, my ignorance of wines is almost infinite, as is true of us all - not enough days) that outfit now owned by the Foster's beer conglomerate (with Japanese participation), but once by Australian Shipping? If so, how can it be so proud as to object to a little price-cutting? After all, one conglomerate is much like another, no? Or is it more akin to "Appelation d'Origine Controlee" to some degree?

I mean, everyone's heard of Argentinian and Romanian wines, but wines from Oz - rain, sun, soil?

On the other hand, Beaujolais Nouveau and plonk = Mont St Clair = 880baht / 5 liters in plastic makes eminent sense. Great with burgers and fries (red) and fish and chips (white).

But speaking of being perfectly puzzled - someone recently named Stella Artois as a particularly good beer. I'm lost here.

Edited November 16, 2010 by CMX

[ThaiWx]

yeah, it's a decent consistant table wine......haven't had a bad box yet after 2 yrs. Sad to say that I now drink box wines.

nothing wrong with box wines. some very good wines come like that now. they stay fresh for longer and are easy to use plus cost efective.

to the OP I have never had a bad Mont Clair in 3 years.

Same here, Mont Clair for years here and not a bad one bought yet from either Rim Ping or Tesco Lotus.

Edited November 16, 2010 by ThaiWx

[lingnoi1977]

Penfolds -

Is Penfolds (sorry, my ignorance of wines is almost infinite, as is true of us all - not enough days) that outfit now owned by the Foster's beer conglomerate (with Japanese participation), but once by Australian Shipping? If so, how can it be so proud as to object to a little price-cutting? After all, one conglomerate is much like another, no? Or is it more akin to "Appelation d'Origine Controlee" to some degree?

I mean, everyone's heard of Argentinian and Romanian wines, but wines from Oz - rain, sun, soil?

On the other hand, Beaujolais Nouveau and plonk = Mont St Clair = 880baht / 5 liters in plastic makes eminent sense. Great with burgers and fries (red) and fish and chips (white).

But speaking of being perfectly puzzled - someone recently named Stella Artois as a particularly good beer. I'm lost here.

A wine disribution company can enjoy selling beer as an addition to their portfolio but beer companies suck at selling premium wines. Proof of the pud is Fosters who have really cocked up their wine division to the tune of around $450 mill loss last FY. Penfolds remains relatively strong by shotgun method but the rest has gone south. Deep south. The Penfolds you see at Tachilek is not "mise en bouteille au chateau" or estate bottled and if it is, it has ben dumped by other Asian countries of import. There are "special" Bin numbers assigned for this purpose.

This brings me to the point of a previous post: "Damaged because of the imperfect supply chain and distribution system; the vagaries of air conditioning and proper storage in transporting it from the EU, or Australia or California and other origins.

Penfolds Tachilek is about a "damaged" as it comes.

Much rather buy a lovely little Tuscan Sangiovese or a Montepulciano D'Abruzzo for around 350-500 baht that has been stored in one location in Thailand, has recieved a partial tax exemption and has had the benefit of an extra 6 months bottle age.

I expect the wanna be wine conns to shed more enlightenment on this subject soon...?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

aren't most of these boxed wines transported in large containers and then individually boxed in SEA?

The outside cardboard boxes anyway seem to be of local origin.

I have heard of this practice of importing Australian wines in this method to california where the large companies then individually package the product.

No idea how widespread the practice is. If done well I imagine its fine from a quality standpoint.

Anyone have any experience or knowledge of that?

[basinboy]

"Penfolds Tachilek is about a "damaged" as it comes."

That's an interesting remark, from your posts you obviously know the business.

I've only been to the duty free in Tachilek once and I certainly did spend up on Penfolds, I live most of the year in Melbourne so I am familiar with their range. I was sufficiently worried that I did not buy anything over the Bin 389 mark, for fear that the wine quality could not be guaranteed. I once saw a bottle of Grange Hermitage at the Nong Khai border crossing, it was in a lovely air con enviroment and the price was about what you would expect to pay in Australia, around AUD 500.00.

I thought then you'd have to have rocks in your head to risk buying that God knows where it was for the months before it got to the climate controlled enviroment of the shop, just imagine taking it back if it were corked or otherwise tainted.

[lingnoi1977]

"Penfolds Tachilek is about a "damaged" as it comes."

That's an interesting remark, from your posts you obviously know the business.

I've only been to the duty free in Tachilek once and I certainly did spend up on Penfolds, I live most of the year in Melbourne so I am familiar with their range. I was sufficiently worried that I did not buy anything over the Bin 389 mark, for fear that the wine quality could not be guaranteed. I once saw a bottle of Grange Hermitage at the Nong Khai border crossing, it was in a lovely air con enviroment and the price was about what you would expect to pay in Australia, around AUD 500.00.

I thought then you'd have to have rocks in your head to risk buying that God knows where it was for the months before it got to the climate controlled enviroment of the shop, just imagine taking it back if it were corked or otherwise tainted.

Yes I know the business but could never know all of it and I could never hope to make sense of the distribution mess in Asia. Interesting about pricing comparisons. I am sure there are legit Penfolds out there but how damaged - who knows? One thing for sure -as a Penfolds drinker you will be aware that they are pretty sturdy wines and it would take a fair bit to knock them around.

Do a front and back label comparison and you might find a difference between the labels from country of origin and the country of import. I might do this just for an exercise. Apart from the normal export requirements there may be a few copies out there...?

With Grange it is a little easier. There will be a bottle number and from this it is possible to track the sales path.

Just a note about Grange (and dont call it Hermitage - the French get very upset ) - it is getting consistently $500 per bottle regardless of the vintage. This is just amazing and shows that marketing in its different guises is the single most important thing for any wine brand. Any brand for that matter. One could argue the toss about quality all day but its not much good if marketing can't drive sales.

Grange used to be (about until the early 80's) chiefly a single origin wine sourced from nice old gnarly Barossa (Kalimna) wines. It wasn't a fruit salad and was not filtered to an inch of its life. It had real character and charm. It was quintessentially Australian right down to its flaws. As demand increased, so did supply but the supply had to come from somewhere. The Group started to source fruit from outside the current area and handsome payment incentives were set up to keep the growers on their quality toes. Now every grower and his dog claims to be growing "Grange" grade Shiraz grapes.

The wine itself is interesting when you look through the decades. I know them well from the 60's, 70's and 80's but not from the 90's and this decade. I gave up when the style changed. If anyone has tasted a recent Grange, I would love to know your thoughts.

Pretty good for a non-estate wine with a typface label dont you think?

[DaengJonesie]

There are some long replies on here so apologies if I repeat some info (no time to read them all). I was told the other day that they come in Merlot, Chiraz, Cab Sav. Apparently this is only in small print on the boxes and large bottles. So you may want to get the old reading glasses or monocle out and have a closer inspection!

[OldeBellPedr]

Penfolds -

Is Penfolds (sorry, my ignorance of wines is almost infinite, as is true of us all - not enough days) that outfit now owned by the Foster's beer conglomerate (with Japanese participation), but once by Australian Shipping? If so, how can it be so proud as to object to a little price-cutting? After all, one conglomerate is much like another, no? Or is it more akin to "Appelation d'Origine Controlee" to some degree?

I mean, everyone's heard of Argentinian and Romanian wines, but wines from Oz - rain, sun, soil?

On the other hand, Beaujolais Nouveau and plonk = Mont St Clair = 880baht / 5 liters in plastic makes eminent sense. Great with burgers and fries (red) and fish and chips (white).

But speaking of being perfectly puzzled - someone recently named Stella Artois as a particularly good beer. I'm lost here.

A wine disribution company can enjoy selling beer as an addition to their portfolio but beer companies suck at selling premium wines. Proof of the pud is Fosters who have really cocked up their wine division to the tune of around $450 mill loss last FY. Penfolds remains relatively strong by shotgun method but the rest has gone south. Deep south. The Penfolds you see at Tachilek is not "mise en bouteille au chateau" or estate bottled and if it is, it has ben dumped by other Asian countries of import. There are "special" Bin numbers assigned for this purpose.

This brings me to the point of a previous post: "Damaged because of the imperfect supply chain and distribution system; the vagaries of air conditioning and proper storage in transporting it from the EU, or Australia or California and other origins.

Penfolds Tachilek is about a "damaged" as it comes.

Much rather buy a lovely little Tuscan Sangiovese or a Montepulciano D'Abruzzo for around 350-500 baht that has been stored in one location in Thailand, has recieved a partial tax exemption and has had the benefit of an extra 6 months bottle age.

I expect the wanna be wine conns to shed more enlightenment on this subject soon...?

I'm sure you're right about the damaged nature of wines in Tachilek, Lingnoi - a very long supply line indeed. I have to say though, personally, I've had no more bad bottles bought in Tachilek than I have purchased in Chiang Mai. and that Penfold's Rawson's Retreat at 399 baht a bottle went beautifully with an Olde Bell cheeseboard! Of course I had to eat it upstairs because it would be illegal to drink it in my pub!

The only wines sure to have gone bad in Tachilek are the very few offers at 99 baht or 199 baht. Then the old adage applies: If something seems to good to be true, it often is!! The Olde Bell cheeseboards are an exception!!

There you go, a blatant peice of advertising dressed up as a news post!!! Seriously though, Penfolds (and a tasty littel Chilean number called La Puerto, a reserve Malbec) are well worth the petrol money to Tachillek!!

[jaideeguy]

I've often wondered what route the Tachelek Penfoils takes to get from South Australia to the landlocked boondocks of Burma. Maybe by ship to Yangoon, then by elephant back to Tachelek.

[OldeBellPedr]

I think there's a Singaporean middle man, Jaideeguy. I gather the Myanmar Airways flight form Mandalay to Tachilek is a more likely route. I don't think elephants would do much for Penfolds finer wines, or some of the expensive French numbers stashed in the cold room at the back -although I like the idea of them arriving by elephant!!! The author Daniel Mason had a character who transported a piano across Burma using elephants and manual labour!

[lingnoi1977]

Penfolds -

Is Penfolds (sorry, my ignorance of wines is almost infinite, as is true of us all - not enough days) that outfit now owned by the Foster's beer conglomerate (with Japanese participation), but once by Australian Shipping? If so, how can it be so proud as to object to a little price-cutting? After all, one conglomerate is much like another, no? Or is it more akin to "Appelation d'Origine Controlee" to some degree?

I mean, everyone's heard of Argentinian and Romanian wines, but wines from Oz - rain, sun, soil?

On the other hand, Beaujolais Nouveau and plonk = Mont St Clair = 880baht / 5 liters in plastic makes eminent sense. Great with burgers and fries (red) and fish and chips (white).

But speaking of being perfectly puzzled - someone recently named Stella Artois as a particularly good beer. I'm lost here.

A wine disribution company can enjoy selling beer as an addition to their portfolio but beer companies suck at selling premium wines. Proof of the pud is Fosters who have really cocked up their wine division to the tune of around $450 mill loss last FY. Penfolds remains relatively strong by shotgun method but the rest has gone south. Deep south. The Penfolds you see at Tachilek is not "mise en bouteille au chateau" or estate bottled and if it is, it has ben dumped by other Asian countries of import. There are "special" Bin numbers assigned for this purpose.

This brings me to the point of a previous post: "Damaged because of the imperfect supply chain and distribution system; the vagaries of air conditioning and proper storage in transporting it from the EU, or Australia or California and other origins.

Penfolds Tachilek is about a "damaged" as it comes.

Much rather buy a lovely little Tuscan Sangiovese or a Montepulciano D'Abruzzo for around 350-500 baht that has been stored in one location in Thailand, has recieved a partial tax exemption and has had the benefit of an extra 6 months bottle age.

I expect the wanna be wine conns to shed more enlightenment on this subject soon...?

I'm sure you're right about the damaged nature of wines in Tachilek, Lingnoi - a very long supply line indeed. I have to say though, personally, I've had no more bad bottles bought in Tachilek than I have purchased in Chiang Mai. and that Penfold's Rawson's Retreat at 399 baht a bottle went beautifully with an Olde Bell cheeseboard! Of course I had to eat it upstairs because it would be illegal to drink it in my pub!

The only wines sure to have gone bad in Tachilek are the very few offers at 99 baht or 199 baht. Then the old adage applies: If something seems to good to be true, it often is!! The Olde Bell cheeseboards are an exception!!

There you go, a blatant peice of advertising dressed up as a news post!!! Seriously though, Penfolds (and a tasty littel Chilean number called La Puerto, a reserve Malbec) are well worth the petrol money to Tachillek!!

Pardon my ignorance re licensing issues here in CNX Olde Belle but why would you not be able to drink that bottle in your own pub?

Are you not licensed to sell wine?

Interested to know...