dSLR - Still Trying To Decide

[Tywais]

Been nearly a year since I first started considering upgrading to a dSLR and as with computers, keep waiting for that perfect machine.

The ones I was previous considering just didn't fit my personal requirements or out of budget. After looking again I've seen some promising candidates that seems to satisfy what I want in a dSLR. Some requirements are a swivel LCD screen, good HD video mode, RAW (probably on all dSLR's anyway), good reviews on usability and image (+high iso) quality, price. The below are now on my short list.

Canon EOS 60D which sits between the 550D and the 7D.

Sony Alpha A55 which I find technologically interesting as it uses single lens translucent (mirrorless) allowing for full time viewing through live view or EVF.

Panasonic Lumix DHC-GH2 which is a new release and the specs/reviews look quite good. I know Hughden is happy with his Panasonic and his photos are excellent so leaning towards this one at the moment when it comes available here.

EVF versus optical. Seems some professional reviewers are strongly against EVF and prefer optical but in my case, all my cameras have had tilt LCD screens and rarely used the view finder, though that may change with a dSLR. Two of the above use EVF (Panasonic & Sony) - for me it isn't a major factor in the decision.

I do like the Sony's technology but not being a major player in the Thailand dSLR market would worry about lenses. Same with the Panasonic regarding availability and choice of lenses.

Just looking for feedback regarding the above. There is also the D7000 and 7D but out of my budget comfort level.

[cdnvic]

Ever since the rootkits Sony has been in my bad books.

I really like the optics that Lumix has, and know many very happy Lumix users.

Canon continues to be my camera of choice, SLR or PS. The wide variety of lenses is a big advantage over the others.

[canuckamuck]

I'm having trouble choosing between the 550D and the 60D

[Tywais]

Canon continues to be my camera of choice, SLR or PS. The wide variety of lenses is a big advantage over the others.

Actually that has been mine also for the same reason but still leaving my options open. Last two cameras have been Canon P&S.

Something I should have mentioned and that two of the above probably can't be considered true dSLR - the Panasonic Micro four thirds and the Sony due to the translucent lens technology. That has its advantages though but perhaps some weakness. Micro four thirds has a smaller sensor but appears the engine and short cropping the sensor pulls it off well. The Sony translucent mirror technology loses about 1/3 a stop of light as it splits the image to direct it to two sensors.

[Tywais]

I'm having trouble choosing between the 550D and the 60D

I believe they both use the same sensor or nearly the same as the 7D so image quality should be comparable. The 550D is less expensive now and believe the video mode of the 60D is a large improvement over the 550D. So, if video is important then the 60D, if price but nearly same features of the 60D then the 550D.

In my case the articulated screen is important to me which the 60D has but the 550D doesn't. Actually the 550D was my first choice last year except the lack of tilt screen and not that impressive video capability held me back.

[canuckamuck]

I'm having trouble choosing between the 550D and the 60D

I believe they both use the same sensor or nearly the same as the 7D so image quality should be comparable. The 550D is less expensive now and believe the video mode of the 60D is a large improvement over the 550D. So, if video is important then the 60D, if price but nearly same features of the 60D then the 550D.

In my case the articulated screen is important to me which the 60D has but the 550D doesn't. Actually the 550D was my first choice last year except the lack of tilt screen and not that impressive video capability held me back.

Good points, I agree

[tw25rw]

You can get a Lumix GH1 relatively cheaply now. The GH2 isn't a huge upgrade.

I'm still tossing up between the G2 and GF1..

[hughden]

Ever since the rootkits Sony has been in my bad books.

I really like the optics that Lumix has, and know many very happy Lumix users.

Canon continues to be my camera of choice, SLR or PS. The wide variety of lenses is a big advantage over the others.

The Micro Four Thirds cameras actually have literally hundreds of lens options. Yes there are the relatively limited range of micro four thirds lenses from Panasonic, Olympus and others; but using a suitable adapter you can attach almost any lens you can imagine, from $15 Chinese CCTV lenses through to Leica glass. The Vulcan opened my eyes to the options, and now I have a growing collection of "legacy" lenses including Canon FD, Russian Industar, Isco-Gottingen Westromat and the glorious Contax 45mm which is one of the best lenses ever tested (the below was taken with the Contax). The problem with micro four thirds is not the limited selection of lenses, it is resisting the temptation to jump into eBay and bid on all manner of esoteric wonderfulness!

I recommend a trip to the 4/3s section of the GETDPI site and check out some of the photos that are taken with these lenses, stunning bokeh, colour and sharpness. Then hide your credit card.

[Tywais]

The Micro Four Thirds cameras actually have literally hundreds of lens options.

Thanks for that info on lenses, very helpful. However, it brings up this question. The micro 4/3 sensor is smaller then an APS-C so how does it handle the change in crop factor (aka multiplier)? The GH2 also has multiple crop factors for different aspect ratios. Would a Canon APS-C lens fitted with an adapter have more edge distortion or does the adapter correct for it by changing the lens to sensor distance?

Info on crop factor.

//edit - I believe I found most of my answer on these sites.

Micro Four Thirds WiKi

Interesting history and details here

[astral]

Looking at your original selections, the Canon 550D and 60D

consider the weight as well as the technical differences

The 60D is 42% heavier on your neck

550D 530g

60D 755g

[Tywais]

Looking at your original selections, the Canon 550D and 60D

consider the weight as well as the technical differences

Good point, so went looking at side by side details to see what else I may have missed. A friend of mine has an older Nikon dSLR and it was massive in size and weight and believe I would find myself thinking twice about taking it out with me after the newness wore off.

60D vs 550D vs 7D

On the other hand the GH2 is 394 gms.

[hughden]

The Micro Four Thirds cameras actually have literally hundreds of lens options.

Thanks for that info on lenses, very helpful. However, it brings up this question. The micro 4/3 sensor is smaller then an APS-C so how does it handle the change in crop factor (aka multiplier)? The GH2 also has multiple crop factors for different aspect ratios. Would a Canon APS-C lens fitted with an adapter have more edge distortion or does the adapter correct for it by changing the lens to sensor distance?

Info on crop factor.

//edit - I believe I found most of my answer on these sites.

Micro Four Thirds WiKi

Interesting history and details here

It's a 2x multiplier as you have probably discovered already. The adapter ensures that the lens can focus to infinity by placing the lens the correct distance from the sensor. I have the GF1 and am tempted by the GH2, but am hoping for GH2 features in a smaller, more elegant design in a camera yet to be announced.

[cdnvic]

Weight isn't always a bad thing. Up to a point, heft can help dampen camera shake when shooting freehand.

[FBN]

The Nikon D7000 was going to be available in shops in Fortune from last week at a price of 39-40K THB body only..

Why not get a feel for it? Should be some improvement over the D90 with16,2MP and the metal body.. Have used the D90 for a few months now and very happy with the camera.

[astral]

Weight isn't always a bad thing. Up to a point, heft can help dampen camera shake when shooting freehand.

True, but stick on a 70-200mm F2.8 at 1.480Kg and you have 2+kg around your neck.

I wonder how the pros manage, with the 1Ds weighing in a massive 1.490kg.........

Certainly a factor to be considered for the casual user.

[eurasianthai]

True, but stick on a 70-200mm F2.8 at 1.480Kg and you have 2+kg around your neck.

I wonder how the pros manage, with the 1Ds weighing in a massive 1.490kg.........

When you see them taking pictures with the 70-200mm f2.8, it is very seldom around their neck but on a tripod.

And if they actually need to have it around their neck, I think they go for the f4.

[Familyonthemove]

Interesting thread ... I've been looking for a new camera for even longer than the OP and just when I'm about to buy - something new and interesting appears on the horizon. From my own testing and research I reckon the decision would be made by the image quality v size argument. If image quality is the prioroty, then the 'traditional' DSLR's still have the edge - so the Canon would win. But for me, size does matter - I want to have the camera with me at the right time, not left back home because it's too big to carry all day - so the Panasonic would win.

But I've now been distracted by the new Fuji X100. Fixed 30 mm lens may be a limitiation - but the rest of it looks great, and it's not too big.

Also been looking at the Samsung NX10. APS-C sensor in a small package and a good price. Nice 30 mm F2.0 lens as well as a decent small zoom. Screen is good and the EVF is adequate.

One big issue for me is the bokeh issue. I started looking at the Lumix LX5 but discovered that the small sensor meant limited control over depth of field. That's why the Samsung is my current top choice ... big sensor in a small camera - may be my best bet .... but limited lens choice may be an issue for the OP?

[hughden]

Interesting thread ... I've been looking for a new camera for even longer than the OP and just when I'm about to buy - something new and interesting appears on the horizon. From my own testing and research I reckon the decision would be made by the image quality v size argument. If image quality is the prioroty, then the 'traditional' DSLR's still have the edge - so the Canon would win. But for me, size does matter - I want to have the camera with me at the right time, not left back home because it's too big to carry all day - so the Panasonic would win.

But I've now been distracted by the new Fuji X100. Fixed 30 mm lens may be a limitiation - but the rest of it looks great, and it's not too big.

Also been looking at the Samsung NX10. APS-C sensor in a small package and a good price. Nice 30 mm F2.0 lens as well as a decent small zoom. Screen is good and the EVF is adequate.

One big issue for me is the bokeh issue. I started looking at the Lumix LX5 but discovered that the small sensor meant limited control over depth of field. That's why the Samsung is my current top choice ... big sensor in a small camera - may be my best bet .... but limited lens choice may be an issue for the OP?

You still have control over depth of field, you just get more of it as the sensor size decreases. But while this may be technically true, in normal use I don't find it to be an issue.

The attached shot of the girl in the coffee shop has her face in focus and everything else thrown out of focus; quite a limited depth of field.

And you can still get some pleasant bokeh effects as hopefully the flower shot demonstrates.

Both shots taken with the Panasonic GF1.

[Familyonthemove]

Thanks Hughden - nice shots and interesting to see what can be done with the GF1

The GF1 has a larger sensor than the LX5 and other compacts - so I guess that still gives you decent DOF control. The GH1 mentioned by the OP will have similar 'bokehbility' to your GF1 .... but when I was playing with a GF1 and a NX10 is a shop it looked like the NX10 had a signficantly tighter DOF at the same f-stop than the GF1 .... and with the LX5 there was almost no bokeh effect at f2.0. With improving sensors (especially the new 10 meg G12 and LX5) I'm beginning to think that the depth of field control is the only reason to go for a bigger camera?

[hughden]

Thanks Hughden - nice shots and interesting to see what can be done with the GF1

The GF1 has a larger sensor than the LX5 and other compacts - so I guess that still gives you decent DOF control. The GH1 mentioned by the OP will have similar 'bokehbility' to your GF1 .... but when I was playing with a GF1 and a NX10 is a shop it looked like the NX10 had a signficantly tighter DOF at the same f-stop than the GF1 .... and with the LX5 there was almost no bokeh effect at f2.0. With improving sensors (especially the new 10 meg G12 and LX5) I'm beginning to think that the depth of field control is the only reason to go for a bigger camera?

I think a lot depends on what you want to shoot. Any of the cameras you mention give you control over the photographic process and will produce photographs you would be happy with.

One of the advantages of a smaller sensor camera like the LX5, is that, because it has more depth of field, it becomes an excellent camera for macros; where achieving sufficient depth of field is a real problem for large sensor cameras. In fact, the LX3 was so good for macros (it also focuses so close that the lens can touch the subject), that I sold my Canon 100mm macro lens and ring flash; the LX3 did a better job. The wasps in the flower shot was taken wide open at F2, and DOF is still bigger than I could wring out of my Canon lens at very high F stops. But the LX3 can still give you bokeh, the flowers in a field shot was taken at F4.

I have a Canon 1D and I did have a large selection of L lenses. Now I just have one lens, which I use when I want to capture sports/action. Other than that, I use the GF1 for everything and it produces images that delight me every bit as much as the 1D output; in fact more so in many instances. My walk-around lens with the Canon was the 24-105mm F4 which was a bit soft at F4. Now I have the 20mm F1.7 which is wonderfully sharp wide-open; one of the best lenses I have ever owned. I can, and do, carry the combination everywhere and can use it without attracting attention. Had it a year and can never recall a time when I wished I had had a more limited depth of field available. So, for me, I have no desire for anything bigger. But I do have a (totally irrational) desire for that Fuji X100, may me, my credit card, and a Fuji X100 never be in the same shop at the same time!

[tw25rw]

I just bought a GF1 with a 14-45mm zoom. Haven't used it in anger yet, but it handles like a compact, but heavier. £397 on Amazon.

[hughden]

I just bought a GF1 with a 14-45mm zoom. Haven't used it in anger yet, but it handles like a compact, but heavier. £397 on Amazon.

That's strange. The one that I bought handles like a DSLR, only lighter.

[Familyonthemove]

Thanks for the detailed reply Hughden .... that's a big help with my decision making. The GF1 cost has fallen since the GF2 was announced .... so I'll be looking for a deal on the GF1 and the f1.7 lens and the 14-45

[sibeymai]

Why doesn't Olympus get a mention here ?

[Familyonthemove]

Why doesn't Olympus get a mention here ?

For me - the lack of a built in flash in the Pen cameras was a killer (same as the Sony NEX) but the EPL-1 was a serious considerantion, although the screen is a bit small.

[Tywais]

Why doesn't Olympus get a mention here ?

I feel Olympus is a bit behind the curve at the moment. Looking at their latest model, the E-5, I wasn't that impressed in comparison with my OP choices based on the below articles. I'm always open to suggestions/recommendations & experiences of other models/brands. It's also getting outside of my budget at $1699.00 body only.

I've seen members commenting on the PEN models and seem happy with them. May look a bit more that way, but suspect they don't fit my specific needs.

E-5 DPreview

E-5 first look

digital camera review

PS - I believe Kan Win has an Olympus and he has shown some remarkable work with it.