Setting Up Ponds For Farming Pla Nin

pigeonjake · September 24, 2012

mosha, good to eat too,,lol, i take them on a small roach pole 6m whip,,

ozzydom · September 25, 2012

Dom got an interesting one the small pond is making it;s own alage and I mean a lot of it. I'm filtering now chaniging the filter daily adn I can;t keep up with it. I have added nothing to the pond. Is it a problem if you have to much in a pond. Fish seem to be OK. But, they won't eat the fish food.

Do I have a problem or not ?

We sold off some meduim size ones,to reduce the numbers, its down abou 10% now, still got 60 baht a Kilo better then a sharp stick

Ray , the few hotter days lately have caused an algael bloom as the water temp increases,because your pond is spring fed it could be excess nitrates from surrounding paddies finding its way in.

Make sure you keep the aeration up to the ponds and it should disappate in a few days.

ray23 · September 25, 2012

Thanks Dom it's the small pond not spring fed. I do notice more on the hot days. Dont have to feed much there LOL

I will just keep the air going. She be catching those fish in November.

Thanks

ray23 · September 25, 2012

Fishing what bait are yuo using? We have mushrooms houses as well. I know they love mushroom bits will fight over them.

pigeonjake · September 25, 2012

i just use a worm, i get the odd bloody cat fish that has found its way in,,

Lonsi · September 27, 2012

I am regularly contacted by members re setting up for farming Pla Nin, and as I will not be available for a time I am putting to type my methods ,these along with previous threads in this forum should answer most questions.I dont expect everybody to agree with my methods but through much trial and some error they work for me.
Anybody contemplating fish farming should learn all you can re the particular fishes biology and habits learn these and you are half way home.

Before you start digging a bloody big hole in the ground,check that the sub soil is capable of holding water and that you have a reliable water supply.

My figures are for the standard size I now build,this being 1 rai(1600sq met.)and able to carry a max water depth of 120cm in the centre out to 50cm at the edges with a slight slope to one end to aid final pumping and harvesting.

Slopes of the banks should be 5 to 1 ratio to help reduce erosion.

A pond such as this can usually be excavated by a big ford tractor and blade much cheaper and neater than an excavator,a tractor can operate up a 5 to 1 slope and spread its own fill.

If you are building adjacent ponds,make sure the margins are at least 5 metres wide as they erode to a degree in time and it is virtually impossible to renew the bund walls without building retaining walls.A wider area dividing the ponds can more easily be grassed and landscaped with fruit trees etc.

After filling the pond the first time ,the water will probably be muddy with suspended clay etc, dont just toss in your fry or fingerlings as soon as you have water,make sure the environment is ready to receive the fish.

I do this by priming the 1 rai pond initially with 12kg of triple super phosphate 0-45-0 and 6kg of Nitrogen 45-0-0

or alternatively 20 kg of 16-20-0 ,the triple super and urea is the most economical way as this is about 1000baht per 50kg bag giving 45%phosphate wheras Rabbit 16-20-0 at 680 baht a bag only provides 20% phosphate.

After about 10 days the water should start to clear and an algael bloom should become evidenton the surface, if it doesnt just give the pond a booster of 50%of the initial dose.

Dont worry if your pond becomes covered in green gunk ,it will die back and your water will turn a shade of green,Pla Nin love algae and it contains up to 50% protein.

What your are trying to achieve is green water where if you dip your arm in 2/3 rd of the way to your elbow and cock your wrist at right angles ,you should just be able to see the palm of your hand,this indicates a healthy population of micro-organisms and micro plankton which is Pla Nins primary natural food and very high in protein.

As phosphate levels drop, the water will become clearer ,indicating a booster shot of phosphate is required, to this end we add 5kg of 0-45-0 once a month.

My particular method of adding and distributing the fertiliser is to weigh out the dose int a 2foot x1.5 foot bag made from the fine blue netting commonly used here and hang it on a pole driven into the pond .I just direct the outlet stream from a 3 inch honda powered centrifigal pump at the bag and it dissolves slowly and spreads around the pond.

Pla Nin grown by this method do not need supplementary food to grow ,but we feed about 1.5 kg of fairly small 20% protein pellets per 1000 fish twice a day,this regiments the fish to come to you for food (handy when harvesting starts) and allows you to keep an eye on your fishes health and condition.

You can certainly grow your fish quicker than we do by feasting them up on copious amounts of high protein pellets ,but the profitability becomes marginal.

Our set up is geared to provide about 5000-6000kg via door sales and make fish available throughout the year. We are the only fish farm in an area of about 20 villages and this returns T/W about 1000 baht a day. (not me ,I,m only the unpaid fish hand)

Before jumping in and starting to dig that big hole in the ground ,always do a bit of market research,a heap of fish without a buyer is about as handy as a hole in the head.

If you keep your stocking rates to about 1000 fish/rai not many problems arise like dissolved oxy levels and disease

but for a 1 or 2 pond farm a 3inch honda centrifigal pump can be set up for aerating as well as pumping in and out.

We actually stock at double my recommended levels ,but I have fitted auto aeration to the ponds, this is better done retro ,after you learn more .

I got away with overstocking our first year and learnt a hard lesson when I tried it again,a big hole in the ground filled with 2 tonne of dead fish is a lesson I dont want any of you budding fish farmers to replicate. :jap:

I want to ask! How many Blanin in 1 Rai i can put

or 1 quer meter?

I stay one year with my wife in Isaan and wand want make a Fish farm!

sjefrie · September 27, 2012

I want to ask! How many Blanin in 1 Rai i can put

or 1 quer meter?

I stay one year with my wife in Isaan and wand want make a Fish farm!

I'm not a fishfarmer but i think it's difficult to say it all depends on your rearing technique

But like ozzydom say's 1000 fish/rai will not give you many problem's

The info below come's from Nam Sai farms they have a good rearing manual

Maybe this can help you

http://www.tilapiathai.com/inform/growing.htm

STOCKING DENSITY

Stocking density depends entirely on the size and expected yield of fish (determined by method of culture) at harvest. For example, if a farmer has a 10 rai pond and intends to use fertilization and a little supplemental feeding using cheap feedstuffs, he could expect 800 kg of fish per rai (1,600 m2). If the farmer intends to stock 2” fish and requires a target weight of 500g per fish, then he can calculate the number of fish to stock from the following equation:

No. of fish to stock = ( (Y x A) / (S / 1,000) ) x M

Where: Y = Yield per rai expected (kg)

A = Area of pond (water only, rai)

S = Size of fish required (g)

M = Mortality coefficient = (100 / estimated survival). The following estimated values could be used:

Size of fish Mortality coefficient

Nile tilapia Red tilapia

1" or 0.2g 1.67 1.92

2" or 2 g 1.39 1.52

3" or 10g 1.27 1.32

4" or 30g 1.18 1.20

In the case above = ( (800 x 10) / (500 / 1,000) ) x 1.39 = (8,000 / 0.5) x 1.39 = 22,240 fish

Nam Sai recommends a grow-out period of no more than 7 months, as production decreases dramatically after a period of 6 months. At a stocking density of 2-3 fish per square meter, market-sized fish (300 – 400g) can be attained in six months using fertilization (addition of manure, fertilizer, etc) only. At stocking densities in excess of this, supplementary feeding will be necessary to get the fish to size within the recommended grow-out period. If large sized fish are required, then reduce the stocking density appropriately.

Ultimately, the stocking density and method of culture used will depend on economics. As stocking density increases, more investment is required in feed, and production cost will increase. As a general rule, 3,000 x 1 inch fish (0.2g) or 1,600 x 4 inch fish (30g) per rai is an ideal stocking density for fertilized and/or supplemental fed tilapia ponds in most of Thailand. Higher stocking density and investment in aeration would be an advantage in areas where tilapia prices are high (fish sales price should be at least double the cost of good quality commercial pellet per kg). Red tilapia, for example, fetch a high market price and can be raised at 2-3 fish per m2 to 700g using commercial pellet to attain 2-3 tons per rai. This is not to say it is the most profitable way to do it, as F.C.R. will be higher (more feed required per kg of tilapia produced) and there will be costs associated with aeration and water exchange. A farmer who produces 2 tons of tilapia per rai and makes 5 baht per kg profit will be no better off than a farmer who produces 1 ton of tilapia per rai and makes 10 baht/kg profit.

The following table can be used as a guide to determining stocking density:

Rearing technique Yield (kg/rai) Number of fish stocked per rai

1" 2" 3" 4"

Fertilization only 600-800 3,200 2,700 2,400 2,250

Fertilization only 600-800 2,400 2,000 1,800 1,700

Fertilization, supplemental cheap feed 800-1,200 4,600 3,800 3,400 3,200

Fertilization, supplemental cheap feed 800-1,200 3,400 2,850 2,600 2,450

Complete feed, no aeration, low density 1,000 2,550 2,150 1,900 1,800

Complete feed, aeration, high density 2,000 5,100 4,300 3,850 3,650

Lonsi · September 27, 2012

I want to ask! How many Blanin in 1 Rai i can put

or 1 quer meter?

I stay one year with my wife in Isaan and wand want make a Fish farm!

I'm not a fishfarmer but i think it's difficult to say it all depends on your rearing technique

But like ozzydom say's 1000 fish/rai will not give you many problem's

The info below come's from Nam Sai farms they have a good rearing manual

Maybe this can help you

http://www.tilapiathai.com/inform/growing.htm

STOCKING DENSITY

Stocking density depends entirely on the size and expected yield of fish (determined by method of culture) at harvest. For example, if a farmer has a 10 rai pond and intends to use fertilization and a little supplemental feeding using cheap feedstuffs, he could expect 800 kg of fish per rai (1,600 m2). If the farmer intends to stock 2” fish and requires a target weight of 500g per fish, then he can calculate the number of fish to stock from the following equation:

No. of fish to stock = ( (Y x A) / (S / 1,000) ) x M

Where: Y = Yield per rai expected (kg)

A = Area of pond (water only, rai)

S = Size of fish required (g)

M = Mortality coefficient = (100 / estimated survival). The following estimated values could be used:

Size of fish Mortality coefficient

Nile tilapia Red tilapia

1" or 0.2g 1.67 1.92

2" or 2 g 1.39 1.52

3" or 10g 1.27 1.32

4" or 30g 1.18 1.20

In the case above = ( (800 x 10) / (500 / 1,000) ) x 1.39 = (8,000 / 0.5) x 1.39 = 22,240 fish

Nam Sai recommends a grow-out period of no more than 7 months, as production decreases dramatically after a period of 6 months. At a stocking density of 2-3 fish per square meter, market-sized fish (300 – 400g) can be attained in six months using fertilization (addition of manure, fertilizer, etc) only. At stocking densities in excess of this, supplementary feeding will be necessary to get the fish to size within the recommended grow-out period. If large sized fish are required, then reduce the stocking density appropriately.

Ultimately, the stocking density and method of culture used will depend on economics. As stocking density increases, more investment is required in feed, and production cost will increase. As a general rule, 3,000 x 1 inch fish (0.2g) or 1,600 x 4 inch fish (30g) per rai is an ideal stocking density for fertilized and/or supplemental fed tilapia ponds in most of Thailand. Higher stocking density and investment in aeration would be an advantage in areas where tilapia prices are high (fish sales price should be at least double the cost of good quality commercial pellet per kg). Red tilapia, for example, fetch a high market price and can be raised at 2-3 fish per m2 to 700g using commercial pellet to attain 2-3 tons per rai. This is not to say it is the most profitable way to do it, as F.C.R. will be higher (more feed required per kg of tilapia produced) and there will be costs associated with aeration and water exchange. A farmer who produces 2 tons of tilapia per rai and makes 5 baht per kg profit will be no better off than a farmer who produces 1 ton of tilapia per rai and makes 10 baht/kg profit.

The following table can be used as a guide to determining stocking density:

Rearing technique Yield (kg/rai) Number of fish stocked per rai

1" 2" 3" 4"

Fertilization only 600-800 3,200 2,700 2,400 2,250

Fertilization only 600-800 2,400 2,000 1,800 1,700

Fertilization, supplemental cheap feed 800-1,200 4,600 3,800 3,400 3,200

Fertilization, supplemental cheap feed 800-1,200 3,400 2,850 2,600 2,450

Complete feed, no aeration, low density 1,000 2,550 2,150 1,900 1,800

Complete feed, aeration, high density 2,000 5,100 4,300 3,850 3,650

Many thanks for the Info! :-)

David48 · November 26, 2012

OD ... how about an update?

Are those prawns you farmed some time ago ready for harvest yet?

I'm in Thailand at the moment and raring to go ...

BTW ... on a serious note ... any fungal / disease problems or abnormal fish kills?

.

David48 · August 30, 2013

.

COUGH ...

OD ... how about an update?

Are those prawns you farmed some time ago ready for harvest yet?

I'm in Thailand at the moment and raring to go ...

BTW ... on a serious note ... any fungal / disease problems or abnormal fish kills?
.

DonaldBattles · August 30, 2013

An outstanding report on starting and operating a fish pond. It is well done and appreciated.

ozzydom · August 30, 2013

.

COUGH ...

OD ... how about an update?

Are those prawns you farmed some time ago ready for harvest yet?

I'm in Thailand at the moment and raring to go ...

BTW ... on a serious note ... any fungal / disease problems or abnormal fish kills?

.

Sorry mate,I missed a few posts while I was waiting for my inet connection.

No news on the prawns.they are a bit like xmas,you dont know what you will get until the old white whiskered guy arrives.

Normally the first time you see them is when they start gathering on the grass at waters edge and by that time they are bbq size.

Yes ,we had /have a problem with 2 lots of fry,lost 50% of one lot and had to restock, and am losing am losing about 6 x200g fish per day from a 8000 fry stocking in the big pond.

The first die back settled after 50% losses and will start medication on the big pond if they dont settle soon.

Applying meds to fish in a pond is a pain in the butt as the only way to medicate is via their feed.

Symptoms lead me to believe that Streptococcus is the problem and I have successfully treated this before with anti biotics.

One of the symptoms of strep is indicated by the fry spinning and swimming in tight circles before carking it. Of course if you miss this indicator in the fry stage ,diagnosis becomes a bit of a lottery.

RedBullHorn · August 30, 2013

_{Ozzydom, can i know the name of the anti-biotic you use to treat Streptococcus. Thanks}

Edited August 30, 2013 by RedBullHorn

ozzydom · August 30, 2013

_{Ozzydom, can i know the name of the anti-biotic you use to treat Streptococcus. Thanks}

I used Amoxicillin mainly because out of the 3 recommended treatments it was the one easily obtained from farm produce suppliers.

The treatment was 8 grams per kg of food for 10 days.

I may have posted the method in an earlier thread but if I did I will repeat my stone age method.

AS the amoxicillin is in powder form it has to be dissolved in water for application.

So the recipe is 160 grams in a one litre spray bottle does one bag of pellets

Method..... empty one bag of pellets into a large plastic tub spray while stirring the pellets thoroughly to make sure they all get a good soaking.

Then spread pellets out thinly and turn regularly to dry thoroughly (I used sheets of corrugated iron )

Next step is to coat pellets in vegetable oil per same method and dry thoroughly .

The oil is to help stop the medication leaching into the pond before its consumed.

Feed slowly to ensure the pellets are consumed as soon as they hit the water.

It took me virtually all day for 10 days to treat 8 bags a day,,

Brighter minds than mine can probably devise better ways to do it but it did the job and I am led to believe that I was one of the few to save their fish in that particularly bad outbreak that wiped out farms throughout Thailand.

RedBullHorn · August 30, 2013

Thank you so much ! I've a feed mixer, so spray mixing and drying out would be a breeze. Thanks for the veggy oil tip too... Nothing happen to my catfishes but one of my clients had Strep problem so i need to help save his fishes.

ray23 · November 14, 2013

well the brother caught a real break. Met a lady who sells at the market and he gets the left over lettuce or cabbage from her days work. Two large bag fulls daily. Great for feed for the Talapia and the worms. Still feeding fish food 16.5% but less is required now.

Sorry couldn't find any place any better to post this.

Edited November 14, 2013 by ray23

DonaldBattles · November 14, 2013

Ray, I never thought of going to the market and seeking left over vegetables and fruits. It could sure cut my feed cost down. Things seem to going OK for my fish. Targeting the pla nin and tap tem for market at the end of April. As I plated the tap tem at 3 different times I may have to wait a littl longer to get them all. I really worry about low water and oxygen in March and April. I think I have a good plan to deal with the oxygen issue.

ozzydom · November 14, 2013

Ray, I never thought of going to the market and seeking left over vegetables and fruits. It could sure cut my feed cost down. Things seem to going OK for my fish. Targeting the pla nin and tap tem for market at the end of April. As I plated the tap tem at 3 different times I may have to wait a littl longer to get them all. I really worry about low water and oxygen in March and April. I think I have a good plan to deal with the oxygen issue.

Be very careful about tossing fruit and veggies in the pond, tilapia and tab tim are not that fond of them and just because they disappear is not proof they are eaten, most settle to the bottom and rot,putrifying your pond water.

If lack of water is going to be a problem,then your ponds are not really suitable for commercial fish farming, a permanent supply of suitable water is the prime requirement for fish farming.

Seasonal ponds are useless as the fish have to be harvested according to water levels ,ready for market or not.

ray23 · November 14, 2013

Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!! we have fed them grass for years, that grows along the edges of the pond. We will pump the pond in March, we are overloaded with fry so it's time to empty it and salvage what we can. This year we have plenty of water to refill it. Not so sure about next year.

We did have problems with water quality last April and lost fish. Found lots of answers on fish farming when it goes wrong thread followed them and did save some. Three years since this pond has been empty. I could empty it right now and start over. A bit afraid of that, since we won't have very much water to use in April if we do that.

Dom any recommendations to get the pond up to speed after we pump it. The only thing poing in there is lettuce or at least that is what it looks like could be cabbage. I know the eat the mushroom cuttings as they float.

I have came to the conclusion that this is something we need to do each year, even if we have to wait for the rain. Fingerllings it would seem don't need a meter of water to get started. My pond being smaller doesn't take a much water to get meter as a rai pond would.

With the late heat the pond levels are dropping faster, which might result in a problem earlier.

After you use the rogine what do you need to do before you start adding fish, what do yuo do to dispose on the smaller fish? ( silly me free fish of an size would more then likely work for most)

We have been burning any die offs.

Lots of questions. But. that is nothing new for me.

I can pump from one large pond I beleive. I still have two small ponds left after that. The land was purchased where the big pond is. But, I still have two smaller ones to pump from. enough for fingerlings. I'm very tempted to pump it and not spend time feeding 1000's of fingerlings. A visit to the local fishery has caused a real problem. At least that is where I think it is coming from. My target date was March not sure that will hold now.

Thoughts please?

Edited November 14, 2013 by ray23

ray23 · November 14, 2013

Donald just because I try t something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Remember fo me it's a hobby. I would listen to the pros if I were you. Also note I said lettuce or cabbage. Nothing about fruits ect.

ozzydom · November 14, 2013

Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!! we have fed them grass for years, that grows along the edges of the pond. We will pump the pond in March, we are overloaded with fry so it's time to empty it and salvage what we can. This year we have plenty of water to refill it. Not so sure about next year.

We did have problems with water quality last April and lost fish. Found lots of answers on fish farming when it goes wrong thread followed them and did save some. Three years since this pond has been empty. I could empty it right now and start over. A bit afraid of that, since we won't have very much water to use in April if we do that.

Dom any recommendations to get the pond up to speed after we pump it. The only thing poing in there is lettuce or at least that is what it looks like could be cabbage. I know the eat the mushroom cuttings as they float.

I have came to the conclusion that this is something we need to do each year, even if we have to wait for the rain. Fingerllings it would seem don't need a meter of water to get started. My pond being smaller doesn't take a much water to get meter as a rai pond would.

With the late heat the pond levels are dropping faster, which might result in a problem earlier.

After you use the rogine what do you need to do before you start adding fish, what do yuo do to dispose on the smaller fish? ( silly me free fish of an size would more then likely work for most)

We have been burning any die offs.

Lots of questions. But. that is nothing new for me.

I can pump from one large pond I beleive. I still have two small ponds left after that. The land was purchased where the big pond is. But, I still have two smaller ones to pump from. enough for fingerlings. I'm very tempted to pump it and not spend time feeding 1000's of fingerlings. A visit to the local fishery has caused a real problem. At least that is where I think it is coming from. My target date was March not sure that will hold now.

Thoughts please?

Ray, the three times that we have had problems with Tilapia breeding in the ponds ,were all attributed to buying fry from Fisheries Dept. at Udon Thani and Sakhon Nakhon.

One lot of 12000 fry were actually FOC replacements after they came and visually verified the problem, the replacement fry were the same so I will not buy fry from them anymore.

We get some of our fry and Barramundi from Namsai Farm but our transporter now picks up from their Kanchaburi Hatchery and goes back to Non Khai via the eastern route so its a problem. However we have started buying from the Bettagrow Hatchery at Nam OOn near Paen Khon as of last March and they are progressing quite well.

Dig a hole and bury your unwanted fish ,you can always plant a fruit tree over the hole later.

I will contact you next week and take you around to the place I get my poison from,we can then do another farm visit and try to sort you out.

RedBullHorn · November 14, 2013

The fastest way to grow Tilapia's veggy food... is Pak Pong (Water morning glory). Plant them in batches and you will have endless food for them and for your family. Harvest in 23-25 days and sickle the plants, leave the roofs intact, water them from the the pond's water and they will regenerate for 2nd and 3rd harvest.

Need to to be planted in batches sequent for endless veggy feed. After sickle, just throw the lot into water and see them munching it away....(From experience rearing Pla Nin...)

With all due respect Ozzydom... My sincere contribution to help forum members of great enthusiastic to make it happen...

ray23 · November 15, 2013

My mistake I wasn't patient, we tried to buy from the hatchery on Nong Khai Rd normally. They didn't have any fry. So we took a chance bad results.

Funny you should mention the tree. The Pilgrims in America almost starved to death till the Indians showed them how to fertilize corn with fish. ( There mistake )

We will be on a bike trip 21,22,& 23

Be good to see you.

Donald sounds like you got an answer. that will work. Seems to me a combination of methods would really cut costs. Food is where the real money goes. RBH would you know the Thai Name for the plant? Sometimes pretty hard to find such things in a dictionary.

Edited November 15, 2013 by ray23

ozzydom · November 15, 2013

The fastest way to grow Tilapia's veggy food... is Pak Pong (Water morning glory). Plant them in batches and you will have endless food for them and for your family. Harvest in 23-25 days and sickle the plants, leave the roofs intact, water them from the the pond's water and they will regenerate for 2nd and 3rd harvest.

Need to to be planted in batches sequent for endless veggy feed. After sickle, just throw the lot into water and see them munching it away....(From experience rearing Pla Nin...)

With all due respect Ozzydom... My sincere contribution to help forum members of great enthusiastic to make it happen...

Thanks for that RBH, good info I never thought to pass on.

I trim around the ponds every 2 weeks, the weed wacker tosses it into the pond as I cut. We also grow a raft of morning glory staked in the middle of the ponds,(had to put it there to keep MIL from filching all the tender tips)

ray23 · November 15, 2013

Now that I know what it is we have it floating on the edges the big pond and they truly enjoy eating that. I will transplant some to use RBH's method. We have some we need to get out of the Pla Mor Pond. That should be a good start.

RedBullHorn · November 15, 2013

The fastest way to grow Tilapia's veggy food... is Pak Bong (Water morning glory). Plant them in batches and you will have endless food for them and for your family. Harvest in 23-25 days and sickle the plants, leave the roofs intact, water them from the the pond's water and they will regenerate for 2nd and 3rd harvest.

Need to to be planted in batches sequent for endless veggy feed. After sickle, just throw the lot into water and see them munching it away....(From experience rearing Pla Nin...)

With all due respect Ozzydom... My sincere contribution to help forum members of great enthusiastic to make it happen...

Thanks for that RBH, good info I never thought to pass on.

I trim around the ponds every 2 weeks, the weed wacker tosses it into the pond as I cut. We also grow a raft of morning glory staked in the middle of the ponds,(had to put it there to keep MIL from filching all the tender tips)

Try to buy the seeds (packet, sell at all seeds shops) Pak Bong Chin (Chinese water spinach/morning glory).

The wild ones that creeps along the pond are call Pak Bong Pa. It's free but the stems are tought for the fishes unlike Pak Bong Chin.

The Chinese Spinach seeds are spread in batches on prepared soil beds (raised). After 23-25 days, they will be standing tall around 50cm. Submersible pump (1HP) pumps green water from pond into the drainage of prepared soil beds.

Sickle the plants, do not up root... re-water and wait for next harvest. Repeat steps and have countless harvest.

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