Tourist Visa Denied In Vientiane. Laos

[eek]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

At what point in that sentence did i condone attempts at skirting local immigrations laws? Could you kindly point that out to me, so im aware of what you are referring to.

[sbk]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

Considering that the mod in question did not offer advice or condone any attempts at skirting local immigration laws I strongly suggest you rethink your post and come back when you aren't commenting on moderation.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

we should have a contest to figure out thinkinogstayin TV member ID was prior to the last laundering/name change. Any guesses?

[millwall_fan]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

At what point in that sentence did i condone attempts at skirting local immigrations laws? Could you kindly point that out to me, so im aware of what you are referring to.

Come on, thinkinofstayin, all Eek is saying is that s/he wishes him luck in getting a visa. To me it's implicit that s/he means a legal visa. I wish the OP good luck too. I just pointed out that repeat tourist visas for residents are on their way out!

[vacationman]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

At what point in that sentence did i condone attempts at skirting local immigrations laws? Could you kindly point that out to me, so im aware of what you are referring to.

Eek,

Thanks for your best wishes.

Just a comment as you can tell I'm a new member here and I surprised people join the forum and make comments.

Becasue everytime we do it seems about 50% of the people are always so negative.

I hope their life here in Thailand is NOT as negative as the comments that appear here all the time.

My goal in writing the above information was to simply inform others about whats currently going at the Thai Embassy in LAOS.

It is NOT our goal to break any thai laws.

As long as the Thai Government contiunes to provide me a VALID Tourist visa weather we do it ONE time or 1,000 times, apparently it is LEGAL under Thai Law. When Thailand makes changes to their Rules and Regulates as apparently they have done recently, we will then try to obtain some other kind of VISA based on our situation and the current LEGAL Laws in Thailand.

Looks like we will go with a Volunteer Visa since we enjoy helping others when we can.

[vacationman]

We have spoken with about FIVE Lawyers and 3 Language Schools this week.

The only thing any of them agreed upon is the EVERYONE should try to AVOID

the Thai Embassy in LAOS at this time.

Apparently many people are having VISA Problems there and NOT just Tourist Visa

problems.

Sooo we will take thier advise and fly to KL or Singapore as reccomended.

[DiamondKing]

We have spoken with about FIVE Lawyers and 3 Language Schools this week.

The only thing any of them agreed upon is the EVERYONE should try to AVOID

the Thai Embassy in LAOS at this time.

Apparently many people are having VISA Problems there and NOT just Tourist Visa

problems.

Sooo we will take thier advise and fly to KL or Singapore as reccomended.

Guess its not as easy as it once was a friend in Holland could not get an O visa and was even given the run around for a tourist visa having to give a detailed itinary for his trip of 4 months

Dk

[thinkinofstayin]

Just wish to thank you vacationman for such a detailed description, which im sure is beneficial information for many.

I also wish you and your wife the best in obtaining a visa that allows you to live in the place you feel is home.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Considering the ways in which Thaivisa has cleaned up the forums of late, particularly with regards to making sure everyone stays within the law, I'm surprised that a Moderator is condoning peoples attempts to skirt the local immigration laws.

Considering that the mod in question did not offer advice or condone any attempts at skirting local immigration laws I strongly suggest you rethink your post and come back when you aren't commenting on moderation.

Post re-thought.

You're quite right the mod in question didn't offer advice. However, it is pretty clear that they are attempting to live here when in reality they have no valid reason to do so. Thailand is awash with people who have entered the country under false pretences (Tourist Visas, Education Visas etc) and immigration are obviously making attempts to rectify the problem. A week or so in Pattaya would be sufficient to see why the authorities are doing it - more undesirables down there than you can shake a stick at. The couple in question may well be good, honest, decent people but they are trying to stay here by any means possible, including entering under false pretences. They did say they want to live here and thery're attempting to use tourist visas to do so. Wishing them good luck could be interpreted as encouraging their actions, depending on how you look at it. I'll give Eek the benefit of doubt and take it that he/she was simply wishing them the best in getting a valid, legal, genuine visa. As I do. I'm thinking of staying.

[eek]

thinkinofstayin, if you wish to give me "the benefit of the doubt", is up to you, but personally it is not something that affects me or my opinions one way or the other. Regardless of my views regarding the visa options in Thailand (of which i have my own POV of course, but was not shared in this discussion), I genuinely believe people deserve happiness and good luck in life. As do I. As do you.

[Cnxforever]

I this situation I would probably have hired the (rather expensive) guys who wait outside the embassy to do the visa thing for me, perhaps they can get it more easy.

If one meets the current requirements, those guys are a waste of money. There are so few applicants right now that the whole thing is a breeze.

If one has some kind of problem, it is very possible that paying them will meet with the desired results, but I would not pay them until getting the visa if it is guaranteed.

Problem in Vientiane is that they just had a new consul in charge of the visa section arriving this month - he probably starts out working very strictly - until it is business as usual in a few weeks / month time.

The guys who hang around outside the consulate and arrange double entry tourist visas for 2000 Baht used to guarantee that you get the visa and pickup / deliver even to your hotel room.

Now with a different consul they will have to work out a new "agreement" first and renegotiate.

[Contractor]

We have spoken with about FIVE Lawyers and 3 Language Schools this week.

The only thing any of them agreed upon is the EVERYONE should try to AVOID

the Thai Embassy in LAOS at this time.

Apparently many people are having VISA Problems there and NOT just Tourist Visa

problems.

Sooo we will take thier advise and fly to KL or Singapore as reccomended.

For your own sake, I hope you don't arrive in either of those countries, fall in love with the place and decide to try and overstay. Penalties are severe and brutal.

Rgds

[thaimiller]

Thank YOU for saying that.... I get frustrated with people JUDGING others on why they use certain visas..... We love THAILAND and try to help many people, but becasue we are not old enought for a retirement Visa and my Wife is from the Philippines.... it is very difficult for us to stay in Thailand.... but we BOTH feel like this is our HOME and where we want and hope to live for many years to come.

It would be difficult for you to live in most countries in the world other than your own, and that is the same for everyone. Thais would find it very difficult to live abroad and often find it near impossible to even get a tourist visa for most countries. You may well feel that this is your home but the reality is that it isn't. You may well want to live here for many years to come, but your hosts obviously don't want you here and you obviously have no entitlement to live here. That's not judging you or questioning your love of the country it's simply stating the facts.

probably the best post in a long time, although I feel for the OP, the rules are set out and If you don't fit in to any of the catogories then Thailand is not the place for you. I hope you can sort things but at the end of the day as much as you love it here, the Thai government don't love you being here without a proper visa and its going to get harder and harder to stay here. The next thing will be an increase in Marriage visa funds to say at least 500,000thb in the bank and retirement to 1 million, I know thats only my opinion but we all know how Thailand works. Good luck to the OP but don't do anything daft in order to get a visa, like sending it with an agent out of the country on your behalf, this seldom works and can cause trouble later down the line when the stamps are wrong.

[uptheos]

Apply for whatever visa takes your fancy.

If the Thai government grant you it, then it's perfectly legal.

The buck stops with the Thai Consulate not Thai Visa.

[el jefe]

Can I translate for "ThinkinofStayin"?

If the OP considers Thailand "home", why would they want tourist visas? Isn't being a tourist what you are when you leave home?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

All the visa categories have widespread abuse.

I have lost track of how many so called retired people are here buying and selling real estate. Hiding rental income. evading taxes. Sham marriages. Businesses being run in a friend or spouses name. Money laundering and creative accounting Non Imm B operations.

Just because a person is not using a tourist visa it doesn't mean they aren't abusing the spirit of the law and being a parasite. Trouble is the Thai's are setting the loose rules and practices.

If a person is here and working and taking away opportunities from Thai's without a work permit etc then that is definitely what they want to discourage and violates the intent of the law.

On any visa if a person is here just spending money then just take what they give in the way of visa's. No need to feel any guilt about propping up their economy.

You can always upgrade to a Non Imm later and pretend your poop doesn't stink.

No offense to straight shooters who are in total compliance with their Non Imm visa's... There are plenty of those people but lots and lots abusing the Non Imm categories....

[thinkinofstayin]

Apply for whatever visa takes your fancy.

If the Thai government grant you it, then it's perfectly legal.

That isn't true if you acquire the visa by deception. Tourist visas are for tourists. Anyone using them to live here permanently or is working whilst on a tourist visa is breaking the law. That would be true of every country in the world.

The buck stops with the Thai Consulate not Thai Visa.

That's true but lately Thai Visa has quite rightly become very sensitive about topics in which people discuss illegal activities. In the topic about buying a Blues Brothers DVD the moderator stated "Posts about illegally obtaining the item were deleted." . Topics that could be construed as libel are closed. Fair enough. If someone is openly discussing ways and means of staying in Thailand illegally then I wouldn't be surprised if that was closed too. Vacationman and his wife want to live here, can't get a retirement visa because he's too young, is finding it difficult to stay here by pretending to be a tourist so is looking at other options such as pretending to be a student (Education Visa). I can well understand their desire to stay here, but if their declarations to immigration are based on deception they are breaking the law.

Thinkinofstayin

[Ulysses G.]

You can always upgrade to a Non Imm later and pretend your poop doesn't stink.

[PlanetX]

maybe more people should buck the "system" worldwide and do what they want

do you honestly think the world would get worse or god forbid maybe better?

[vacationman]

We have spoken with about FIVE Lawyers and 3 Language Schools this week.

The only thing any of them agreed upon is the EVERYONE should try to AVOID

the Thai Embassy in LAOS at this time.

Apparently many people are having VISA Problems there and NOT just Tourist Visa

problems.

Sooo we will take thier advise and fly to KL or Singapore as reccomended.

For your own sake, I hope you don't arrive in either of those countries, fall in love with the place and decide to try and overstay. Penalties are severe and brutal.

Rgds

We have never overstayed in Thailand. That would be breaking the law.

Sooo I don't see any reason that we might have a need to overstay in any other country that we might

choose to go on Vacation too.

[vacationman]

Apply for whatever visa takes your fancy.

If the Thai government grant you it, then it's perfectly legal.

The buck stops with the Thai Consulate not Thai Visa.

Well Said... and we believe you are 100% correct in that valid statement.

[sbk]

Apply for whatever visa takes your fancy.

If the Thai government grant you it, then it's perfectly legal.

That isn't true if you acquire the visa by deception. Tourist visas are for tourists. Anyone using them to live here permanently or is working whilst on a tourist visa is breaking the law. That would be true of every country in the world.

The buck stops with the Thai Consulate not Thai Visa.

That's true but lately Thai Visa has quite rightly become very sensitive about topics in which people discuss illegal activities. In the topic about buying a Blues Brothers DVD the moderator stated "Posts about illegally obtaining the item were deleted." . Topics that could be construed as libel are closed. Fair enough. If someone is openly discussing ways and means of staying in Thailand illegally then I wouldn't be surprised if that was closed too. Vacationman and his wife want to live here, can't get a retirement visa because he's too young, is finding it difficult to stay here by pretending to be a tourist so is looking at other options such as pretending to be a student (Education Visa). I can well understand their desire to stay here, but if their declarations to immigration are based on deception they are breaking the law.

Thinkinofstayin

You seem awfully intent on assuming people's intentions in their posts, regardless of what they may or may not post. Might I suggest that instead of assuming what others are intending to say and creating all sorts of implications from their posts, that you stop and read them. And then, if you have nothing constructive to say other than smearing their reputation, you don't post anything at all. Cheers.

[vacationman]

Apply for whatever visa takes your fancy.

If the Thai government grant you it, then it's perfectly legal.

That isn't true if you acquire the visa by deception. Tourist visas are for tourists. Anyone using them to live here permanently or is working whilst on a tourist visa is breaking the law. That would be true of every country in the world.

The buck stops with the Thai Consulate not Thai Visa.

That's true but lately Thai Visa has quite rightly become very sensitive about topics in which people discuss illegal activities. In the topic about buying a Blues Brothers DVD the moderator stated "Posts about illegally obtaining the item were deleted." . Topics that could be construed as libel are closed. Fair enough. If someone is openly discussing ways and means of staying in Thailand illegally then I wouldn't be surprised if that was closed too. Vacationman and his wife want to live here, can't get a retirement visa because he's too young, is finding it difficult to stay here by pretending to be a tourist so is looking at other options such as pretending to be a student (Education Visa). I can well understand their desire to stay here, but if their declarations to immigration are based on deception they are breaking the law.

Thinkinofstayin

Thinking of Staying...

I don't care much for someone saying we are breaking a LAW when we have NEVER broken any

Immigration Laws in Thailand or any other country.

We are Tourist in Thailand. We are continuiously Traveling all over thailand visiting and seeing new things...

most people would call that being a tourist.

Just becasue YOU might have to WORK for a living doesn't mean everyone else in the world has too...

I retired when I was 33 years old and have been traveling the world ever since enjoying life.

If we apply for an Education Visa we will in fact be STUDENTS and Study Thai as is required by the LAW.

When you talk about the SPIRIT of the LAW, who are YOU or anyone else to decide what the SPIRIT of the LAW

is... it might be ONE Spirit for YOU and another SPIRIT for someone else...

Reminds me of my Tax Lady a few years ago....

According to the WRITTEN LAW it stated based on situation we qualified for such and such...

My Tax lady tried to tell me well that's not the SPIRIT of the LAW...

I told her that I don't care about the SPIRIT of the LAW I care about the WRITTEN LAW and

the words in the LAW. If it says we qualify for a 10 million dollor deduction then

I expect YOU to apply the LAW to my Tax Form...

Sooo please don't imply that WE are breaking ANY LAWs of Thailand, becasue we haven't.

I've had many people to suggest that we just pay someone under the TABLE...

I consider that ILLEGAL even though it is often done here in Thailand.

[Contractor]

Hi <Vacationman>

From your posts, it certainly seems that you have been seeking advice from many different people as to your immigration status.

Forgive me if I have missed it, but you don't seem to have asked the people who really matter.

Go to the immigration office on Monday and clearly and honestly explain your circumstances and intentions in respect of your being in Thailand and then you can safely act on their advice.

If everything is 100% legal and above board, then you have nothing to fear.

Good luck and please keep us posted on what they advise you.

Rgds

[Thaihog]

Mods, should this not be in the Visa forum so other people who are not living in Chiang Mai are made aware of the problems in obtaining a visa in Vientiane.....

[thinkinofstayin]

Thinking of Staying...

I don't care much for someone saying we are breaking a LAW when we have NEVER broken any

Immigration Laws in Thailand or any other country.

We are Tourist in Thailand. We are continuiously Traveling all over thailand visiting and seeing new things...

most people would call that being a tourist.

Just becasue YOU might have to WORK for a living doesn't mean everyone else in the world has too...

I retired when I was 33 years old and have been traveling the world ever since enjoying life.

If we apply for an Education Visa we will in fact be STUDENTS and Study Thai as is required by the LAW.

When you talk about the SPIRIT of the LAW, who are YOU or anyone else to decide what the SPIRIT of the LAW

is... it might be ONE Spirit for YOU and another SPIRIT for someone else...

Reminds me of my Tax Lady a few years ago....

According to the WRITTEN LAW it stated based on situation we qualified for such and such...

My Tax lady tried to tell me well that's not the SPIRIT of the LAW...

I told her that I don't care about the SPIRIT of the LAW I care about the WRITTEN LAW and

the words in the LAW. If it says we qualify for a 10 million dollor deduction then

I expect YOU to apply the LAW to my Tax Form...

Sooo please don't imply that WE are breaking ANY LAWs of Thailand, becasue we haven't.

I've had many people to suggest that we just pay someone under the TABLE...

I consider that ILLEGAL even though it is often done here in Thailand.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought you said you wanted to live here. Although you may think that "continuously travelling all over Thailand" isn't quite the same as living here, immigration may see it differently, and it's their opinion that matters.

[thinkinofstayin]

You seem awfully intent on assuming people's intentions in their posts, regardless of what they may or may not post. Might I suggest that instead of assuming what others are intending to say and creating all sorts of implications from their posts, that you stop and read them. And then, if you have nothing constructive to say other than smearing their reputation, you don't post anything at all. Cheers.

I'm not sure if your comments are your personal opinions or whether you are wearing your moderators hat so I'll tread carefully.

The way I saw it, and apparently a few others seemed to agree, the OP mentioned that he and his wife wanted to live here. He mentioned that he was too young to qualify for a retirement visa, which again suggests a plan to stay here long term. They tried coming in and out on tourist visas and then when they realised that maybe that wouldn't work, started to look at the possibility of an education visa. One minute he's saying he wants to be continuously travelling all over the country and then he's going to be studying Thai. I'm not assuming anyone's intentions I'm merely reading his posts, as you suggested. If you were an immigration officer how would you interpret his intentions? No need to make implications or assumptions just read his own words.

Edited November 20, 2010 by thinkinofstayin

[Contractor]

Thinking of Staying...

I don't care much for someone saying we are breaking a LAW when we have NEVER broken any

Immigration Laws in Thailand or any other country.

We are Tourist in Thailand. We are continuiously Traveling all over thailand visiting and seeing new things...

most people would call that being a tourist.

Just becasue YOU might have to WORK for a living doesn't mean everyone else in the world has too...

I retired when I was 33 years old and have been traveling the world ever since enjoying life.

If we apply for an Education Visa we will in fact be STUDENTS and Study Thai as is required by the LAW.

When you talk about the SPIRIT of the LAW, who are YOU or anyone else to decide what the SPIRIT of the LAW

is... it might be ONE Spirit for YOU and another SPIRIT for someone else...

Reminds me of my Tax Lady a few years ago....

According to the WRITTEN LAW it stated based on situation we qualified for such and such...

My Tax lady tried to tell me well that's not the SPIRIT of the LAW...

I told her that I don't care about the SPIRIT of the LAW I care about the WRITTEN LAW and

the words in the LAW. If it says we qualify for a 10 million dollor deduction then

I expect YOU to apply the LAW to my Tax Form...

Sooo please don't imply that WE are breaking ANY LAWs of Thailand, becasue we haven't.

I've had many people to suggest that we just pay someone under the TABLE...

I consider that ILLEGAL even though it is often done here in Thailand.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought you said you wanted to live here. Although you may think that "continuously travelling all over Thailand" isn't quite the same as living here, immigration may see it differently, and it's their opinion that matters.

Yes.

I have also noticed that the story from the OP is changing.

As I have already said, he needs to clarify his immigration staus with the Thai authorities, and then he need not worry about things.

Rgds

Edited November 20, 2010 by Contractor

[uptheos]

All the visa categories have widespread abuse.

I have lost track of how many so called retired people are here buying and selling real estate. Hiding rental income. evading taxes. Sham marriages. Businesses being run in a friend or spouses name. Money laundering and creative accounting Non Imm B operations.

Just because a person is not using a tourist visa it doesn't mean they aren't abusing the spirit of the law and being a parasite. Trouble is the Thai's are setting the loose rules and practices.

If a person is here and working and taking away opportunities from Thai's without a work permit etc then that is definitely what they want to discourage and violates the intent of the law.

On any visa if a person is here just spending money then just take what they give in the way of visa's. No need to feel any guilt about propping up their economy.

You can always upgrade to a Non Imm later and pretend your poop doesn't stink.

No offense to straight shooters who are in total compliance with their Non Imm visa's... There are plenty of those people but lots and lots abusing the Non Imm categories....

Nothing to add, very well said.

[thinkinofstayin]

Thinking of Staying...

I don't care much for someone saying we are breaking a LAW when we have NEVER broken any

Immigration Laws in Thailand or any other country.

We are Tourist in Thailand. We are continuiously Traveling all over thailand visiting and seeing new things...

most people would call that being a tourist.

Just becasue YOU might have to WORK for a living doesn't mean everyone else in the world has too...

I retired when I was 33 years old and have been traveling the world ever since enjoying life.

If we apply for an Education Visa we will in fact be STUDENTS and Study Thai as is required by the LAW.

When you talk about the SPIRIT of the LAW, who are YOU or anyone else to decide what the SPIRIT of the LAW

is... it might be ONE Spirit for YOU and another SPIRIT for someone else...

Reminds me of my Tax Lady a few years ago....

According to the WRITTEN LAW it stated based on situation we qualified for such and such...

My Tax lady tried to tell me well that's not the SPIRIT of the LAW...

I told her that I don't care about the SPIRIT of the LAW I care about the WRITTEN LAW and

the words in the LAW. If it says we qualify for a 10 million dollor deduction then

I expect YOU to apply the LAW to my Tax Form...

Sooo please don't imply that WE are breaking ANY LAWs of Thailand, becasue we haven't.

I've had many people to suggest that we just pay someone under the TABLE...

I consider that ILLEGAL even though it is often done here in Thailand.

I was given some friendly advise to re-read my posts, which I just did, and I couldn't help but notice that you seem to be using some sort of random caps lock program. Although it does offer some emphasis in places that may need it, some were just plain wrong (ANY LAWS, TABLE?). Anyway, you might like to know that forum nettiquette determines that using all capitals is considered as shouting, so maybe you could bear that in mind in future posts. Espescially on a Sunday.

Edited November 21, 2010 by thinkinofstayin

[Starrysky]

We have spoken with about FIVE Lawyers and 3 Language Schools this week.

The only thing any of them agreed upon is the EVERYONE should try to AVOID

the Thai Embassy in LAOS at this time.

Apparently many people are having VISA Problems there and NOT just Tourist Visa

problems.

Sooo we will take thier advise and fly to KL or Singapore as reccomended.

Guess its not as easy as it once was a friend in Holland could not get an O visa and was even given the run around for a tourist visa having to give a detailed itinary for his trip of 4 months

Dk

Would it be possible to know why your friend was refused an 'O' visa in Holland? And was that recently? Myself and several friends all go to Amsterdam once a year for our 'O' visas and I did notice on my visit earlier this year that the new woman is somewhat less helpful and friendly than the one she replaced... I also heard that they were going to make it more difficult for people to get 'O' visas in Amsterdam, but the requirements on the website remain unchanged and if you can meet those requirements, how could you be refused a visa?