114 Yellow Shirts To Be Charged For Bangkok Airports Protests

[needforspeed]

The question is: What will the charges be?

Here we GO:

**Destruction of equipment

**Assembly by more then 10 people

**Terrorism

**Violating the state of emergency

**Encroaching on and refusing to vacate government installations

**Disrupting the civil aviation services

**Blocking traffic

**Interfering with logistic and postal service

**Tax payment for extra sales of somtam Poe /pla and sticky rice during the protest on Airport ground .

NFS

[jayboy]

[quote name='Buchholz' timestamp='1290412873' post='4040122'

The economic effects of the prolonged Red siege far surpassed the 9 day airport loss.

By no means clear.The disturbances in May were localised and had limited effect in economic activity other than in the high end shopping malls and hotels in the vicinity.The seizure of the airports closed down the whole country for a time, and crippled the tourist industry.Equally importantly business traffic, both passenger and freight, ground to a halt.Thailand's reputation around the world was badly damaged.I'm not minimising the impact of the May disturbances but I think it's important not to make statements which can't be justified simply because they fit in with one political agenda or the other.

[SomTumTiger]

By no means clear.The disturbances in May were localised and had limited effect in economic activity other than in the high end shopping malls and hotels in the vicinity.The seizure of the airports closed down the whole country for a time, and crippled the tourist industry.Equally importantly business traffic, both passenger and freight, ground to a halt.Thailand's reputation around the world was badly damaged.I'm not minimising the impact of the May disturbances but I think it's important not to make statements which can't be justified simply because they fit in with one political agenda or the other.

I would say that both your statement and his are impossible to quantify accurately. I know of several conferences and events which were cancelled or moved, several months after the Red menace invaded Bangkok, so the economic ramifications are ongoing.

[Buchholz]

The economic effects of the prolonged Red siege far surpassed the 9 day airport loss.

By no means clear.The disturbances in May were localised and had limited effect in economic activity other than in the high end shopping malls and hotels in the vicinity.The seizure of the airports closed down the whole country for a time, and crippled the tourist industry.Equally importantly business traffic, both passenger and freight, ground to a halt.Thailand's reputation around the world was badly damaged.I'm not minimising the impact of the May disturbances but I think it's important not to make statements which can't be justified simply because they fit in with one political agenda or the other.

Actually you are minimizing the May "disturbance" (which by definition is minimizing the chaos and mayhem and deaths), but never mind, I'm confident most people can sort out which was more damaging.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

The economic effects of the prolonged Red siege far surpassed the 9 day airport loss.

By no means clear.The disturbances in May were localised and had limited effect in economic activity other than in the high end shopping malls and hotels in the vicinity.The seizure of the airports closed down the whole country for a time, and crippled the tourist industry.Equally importantly business traffic, both passenger and freight, ground to a halt.Thailand's reputation around the world was badly damaged.I'm not minimising the impact of the May disturbances but I think it's important not to make statements which can't be justified simply because they fit in with one political agenda or the other.

Actually you are minimizing the May "disturbance" (which by definition is minimizing the chaos and mayhem and deaths), but never mind, I'm confident most people can sort out which was more damaging.

The civilian deaths mainly caused by military snipers were tragic (not that one would know it from government and army statements) but to be rather heartless did not result in significant economic damage.I pointed the error in your original assertion not to be controversial but to make a reasonable point.I do however think Somtum Tiger makes a very reasonable comment to the effect that without some serious economic analysis (as opposed to the "most people can work out which was the more damaging" approach) the outcome is very subjective.I do know for a fact that the hotel/tourism industry - because I have many contacts in that sector - regarded the airport seizure as more damaging.It's also significant that the yellow shirt/PAD actions ruined Thailand's international reputation and as a consequence it needed very little after the Reds seized Central Bangkok for international travellers/ businesses/conferences etc to cancel their bookings.In other words the yellow shirts and the distinctively thuggish element that followed in its wake undermined international confidence and the reds finished it off.

If you however mean overall damage, that is not just restricted to economic fall out, then of course the events in May were worse with the human tragedy of so many killed.That goes without saying.

[Pi Sek]

The civilian deaths mainly caused by military snipers

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

I do know for a fact that the hotel/tourism industry - because I have many contacts in that sector - regarded the airport seizure as more damaging.

Do you now. I also have 'many contacts' in that sector - I expect more than, say, most resort GMs or travel agencies - and they mostly regard the red shirts' protest as FAR more damaging. The tourism wasn't really affected that badly at all, to be quite honest. Having said that, the airport seizure mostly damaged the export industry, which dwarfs the tourism industry (technically tourism is an export).

[SkyHigh]

The question is: What will the charges be?

They only stole icecream on second floor.

How cruel.

Edited November 22, 2010 by SkyHigh

[jayboy]

My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths.

Thanks.That statement marks your position very clearly.

[jdinasia]

My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths.

Thanks.That statement marks your position very clearly.

Attacking the man and not the post again? (and not posting the full quote --- so in effect modifying someone's post)

Pi Sek's full statement follows......

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

Pi Sek is not the only person that holds those beliefs (particularly about the April shootings.)

[Insight]

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

Pi Sek is not the only person that holds those beliefs (particularly about the April shootings.)

And he is far from the only one. The footage caught by multiple people (including red shirts themselves) has done much to eradicate sympathy from any non-red shirts.

[Pi Sek]

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

Pi Sek is not the only person that holds those beliefs (particularly about the April shootings.)

And he is far from the only one. The footage caught by multiple people (including red shirts themselves) has done much to eradicate sympathy from any non-red shirts.

Actually I do sympathise with those whom I believe were duped into lining up to become fish-in-a-barrel target practice. But the point of my post was that this was merely that - my belief. Admittedly I base my belief from what I have seen, but it's still just my opinion - at that can change with further facts. But I won't try and convince anyone that my opinion is fact when only the guilty really know how it transpired. Unlike some

[philw]

The civilian deaths mainly caused by military snipers

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

I do know for a fact that the hotel/tourism industry - because I have many contacts in that sector - regarded the airport seizure as more damaging.

Do you now. I also have 'many contacts' in that sector - I expect more than, say, most resort GMs or travel agencies - and they mostly regard the red shirts' protest as FAR more damaging. The tourism wasn't really affected that badly at all, to be quite honest. Having said that, the airport seizure mostly damaged the export industry, which dwarfs the tourism industry (technically tourism is an export).

I am stunned.

If there was the slightest fact to support your first paragraph, it would surely be being widely proclaimed by the Gov't, Cres and the nutters on TV.

Do you have anything to support your view that "that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths." ???

If so, please pass it to the appropriate authorities so that these murderers can be apprehended.

Or post it here.

[jdinasia]

PhilW

Please feel free to go back to the threads about what was happening and when it was happening (particularly in April), feel free to review the videos showing people being shot, look at them closely and do your best to determine where they took fire from and where the military was versus where the redshirt's men in black were.

The government has been careful to state that each case needs to be looked at independently from each other. I am relatively sure that no official report will be able to be placed on the majority of shootings due to the nature of where and when things happened, bodies being moved, conflicting eyewitness testimony, etc.

I agree with Pi Sek's opinion about the deaths in April. I am absolutely unclear about May, particularly the days leading up to May 19th. Anyone that has followed Thai history at all would have assumed that with enough blood on the streets, that the government would fall. I think that Sae Daeng's Ronin, (isn't that an oxymoronic statement!) took out the majority killed in April. I think they did it because they felt that based upon previous history in Thailand it would collapse the government. They misjudged things, not the least of which is modern media such as Youtube. It becomes awfully hard to blame the government when government troops are being hit with launched grenades, and when red shirt that are facing government troops appear to take bullets to the head from behind.

[Pi Sek]

philw, it's time to put you on ignore, whether you're stunned or not. You are too much of a headache. Feel free to do the same to me, it's probably best for both of us. I'm not even going to reply to your demand for proof, because the CRES already have it. And it's been posted on here more than a few times too.

You fail to realise what the last 5 posts were about - that MY BELIEF that UDD snipers did most of the civilian killing DOES NOT MAKE IT FACT - just as jayboy's beliefs don't make them fact. Is that clear enough for you?

[philw]

philw, it's time to put you on ignore, whether you're stunned or not. You are too much of a headache. Feel free to do the same to me, it's probably best for both of us. I'm not even going to reply to your demand for proof, because the CRES already have it. And it's been posted on here more than a few times too.

You fail to realise what the last 5 posts were about - that MY BELIEF that UDD snipers did most of the civilian killing DOES NOT MAKE IT FACT - just as jayboy's beliefs don't make them fact. Is that clear enough for you?

Point made.

[Insight]

Actually I do sympathise with those whom I believe were duped into lining up to become fish-in-a-barrel target practice. But the point of my post was that this was merely that - my belief. Admittedly I base my belief from what I have seen, but it's still just my opinion - at that can change with further facts. But I won't try and convince anyone that my opinion is fact when only the guilty really know how it transpired. Unlike some

Fair play, bad choice of words on my behalf (have been doing technical-based writing most of the day :s). Perhaps "prevented people from emphasising with the red shirt cause" would be more appropriate?

[Buchholz]

philw, it's time to put you on ignore, whether you're stunned or not. You are too much of a headache. Feel free to do the same to me, it's probably best for both of us. I'm not even going to reply to your demand for proof, because the CRES already have it. And it's been posted on here more than a few times too.

You fail to realise what the last 5 posts were about - that MY BELIEF that UDD snipers did most of the civilian killing DOES NOT MAKE IT FACT - just as jayboy's beliefs don't make them fact. Is that clear enough for you?

A quite rationale reply I thought, even though you're clearly one of philw's

nutters on TV.

[SergeiY]

yawn ... believers.

[whybother]

yawn ... believers.

You should get more sleep Sergei. You're yawning in every second post.

[jayboy]

My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths.

Thanks.That statement marks your position very clearly.

Attacking the man and not the post again? (and not posting the full quote --- so in effect modifying someone's post)

Pi Sek's full statement follows......

That's your belief, not fact. My belief is quite the opposite, I assure you - that UDD snipers were 'mainly' responsible for civilian deaths. I'll shut up if I'm proven wrong, as should you; but until then, please recognise that this is an opinion rather than given fact.

Pi Sek is not the only person that holds those beliefs (particularly about the April shootings.)

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do , do you have any evidence?

[jayboy]

Pi Sek is not the only person that holds those beliefs (particularly about the April shootings.)

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do, do you have any evidence?

[whybother]

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do , do you have any evidence?

Why do you care about facts or evidence, jayboy? You're never able to present any to back your opinions.

[jayboy]

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do , do you have any evidence?

Why do you care about facts or evidence, jayboy? You're never able to present any to back your opinions.

Most people of whatever political stripe would regard it as bizarre to believe that the deaths in May were "mostly" caused by "UDD snipers."

Neither the government nor army nor Thai press nor foreign press nor on the spot observers have made this claim.

Do you have any views?

[SergeiY]

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do , do you have any evidence?

Why do you care about facts or evidence, jayboy? You're never able to present any to back your opinions.

Most people of whatever political stripe would regard it as bizarre to believe that the deaths in May were "mostly" caused by "UDD snipers."

Neither the government nor army nor Thai press nor foreign press nor on the spot observers have made this claim.

Do you have any views?

The believers just believe it - they don't need any back ups with facts and evidence.

[jayboy]

The believers just believe it - they don't need any back ups with facts and evidence.

I think you're right.I have a well educated Egyptian friend who is convinced that the twin towers were blown up by the Americans, the jets were drones and all Jews working there were given 24 hours notice of the attack.So I am familiar with the mentality.I have politely noted the view that UDD gunmen slaughtered their own people, accounting for most of the deaths.As with my Egyptian friend it's pointless even discussing the subject.

[whybother]

And do you hold those beliefs about "UDD snipers" being mainly responsible?

And if you do , do you have any evidence?

Why do you care about facts or evidence, jayboy? You're never able to present any to back your opinions.

Most people of whatever political stripe would regard it as bizarre to believe that the deaths in May were "mostly" caused by "UDD snipers."

Neither the government nor army nor Thai press nor foreign press nor on the spot observers have made this claim.

Do you have any views?

The believers just believe it - they don't need any back ups with facts and evidence.

Correct. As shown by jayboy here:

[SergeiY]

yes, you are right. you win a lollipop.

[PingManDan]

Like Buddy Holly's song, "That'll be the day""

[truethailand]

2 years, by the way.

You're probably thinking of the coup. That wasn't the PAD, that was the army... or are you trying to suggest they're one and the same?

Suggesting no I am not, I am telling you one sponsors the other. Go back and look at the footage from the thai tv, when they tried to move the yellows with those cheap chinese tear gas grenades I twice saw men in army uniform carrying injured protestors away from the scene. Also who was guarding the yellows, maybe army personnel in civillian clothes with hand guns or was it some super active retired school teachers. Why did the army not move in and reopen the airport while the country was falling to its knees. The question arising from the yellow chirade are plentiful but I will be happy if you can answer these couple

[whybother]

2 years, by the way.

You're probably thinking of the coup. That wasn't the PAD, that was the army... or are you trying to suggest they're one and the same?

Suggesting no I am not, I am telling you one sponsors the other. Go back and look at the footage from the thai tv, when they tried to move the yellows with those cheap chinese tear gas grenades I twice saw men in army uniform carrying injured protestors away from the scene. Also who was guarding the yellows, maybe army personnel in civillian clothes with hand guns or was it some super active retired school teachers. Why did the army not move in and reopen the airport while the country was falling to its knees. The question arising from the yellow chirade are plentiful but I will be happy if you can answer these couple

You've never seen someone in Thailand (non-army) wearing a camouflage jacket before? Or were they in full army dress, helmet, boots and all? Does the army carry hand guns?

The yellow shirts were at the airport for 9 days. The army didn't move in on the red shirts for nearly 4 weeks (April 10).